Dear all,
If an employee is continuously late after counseling, deducting salary, issuing warning letters, and charge sheets, and he is a member of the union, but he has a genuine reason for being late, management strictly prohibits lateness.
As an IR person, what actions can we take? Since he is a member of the union, we are unable to suspend or terminate him.
Any suggestions you may have are highly appreciated.
Thanks & regards,
Chitra
From India, Madras
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2If an employee is continuously late after counseling, deducting salary, issuing warning letters, and charge sheets, and he is a member of the union, but he has a genuine reason for being late, management strictly prohibits lateness.
As an IR person, what actions can we take? Since he is a member of the union, we are unable to suspend or terminate him.
Any suggestions you may have are highly appreciated.
Thanks & regards,
Chitra
From India, Madras
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Hi Chitra,
Habitual late coming is a part of 'gross misconduct' as per the model standing orders applicable to all employees. The said employee may be warned in writing with a show cause. If no improvement is seen, he can be terminated from services without paying him notice pay. The union is established to protect the rights of workers and not to protect their misconducts.
From India, Thana
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Habitual late coming is a part of 'gross misconduct' as per the model standing orders applicable to all employees. The said employee may be warned in writing with a show cause. If no improvement is seen, he can be terminated from services without paying him notice pay. The union is established to protect the rights of workers and not to protect their misconducts.
From India, Thana
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Hi Chitra,
Genuine reasons cannot justify coming late on a regular basis. Coming late once or twice a month, supported by genuine reasons, is acceptable but not on a regular basis. Coming on time is a basic discipline that everybody should obey regardless of the position held in the company.
I suggest calling the Union President or Unit Secretary and explaining the problems, giving them two to three weeks to help improve the situation. If this approach does not work, contact the Union leaders again and inform them that management is considering letting the individual go.
From India, Calcutta
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Genuine reasons cannot justify coming late on a regular basis. Coming late once or twice a month, supported by genuine reasons, is acceptable but not on a regular basis. Coming on time is a basic discipline that everybody should obey regardless of the position held in the company.
I suggest calling the Union President or Unit Secretary and explaining the problems, giving them two to three weeks to help improve the situation. If this approach does not work, contact the Union leaders again and inform them that management is considering letting the individual go.
From India, Calcutta
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Hi Chitra,
I see that you have already taken all the recourse to discipline the employee; therefore, I am sure you have also kept the Union informed of the same. Please go ahead and follow through with the action that was communicated to the staff if he did not comply.
Secondly, I notice that you mentioned he has a genuine reason. So, why was all the above action taken in the first instance?
I am of the opinion that if the employee is good at his work, adding value to the organization, and has a valid reason for being late that cannot be avoided, we should accommodate him since he is part of the company family. We can adjust his late coming by asking him to work additional hours to make up for the time. However, this arrangement should be within a specified time frame, following a discussion with him. Otherwise, other employees may demand similar treatment. Informally, all his colleagues should be notified of this adjustment due to a valid reason.
We need to foster good employee relations, especially if his reason for delay is genuine. In my previous company, an accountant had a mentally strained spouse and had to drop his kid at school every morning. The company allowed him flexi-time for 8 months, after which he arranged for an alternative.
Ukmitra
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
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I see that you have already taken all the recourse to discipline the employee; therefore, I am sure you have also kept the Union informed of the same. Please go ahead and follow through with the action that was communicated to the staff if he did not comply.
Secondly, I notice that you mentioned he has a genuine reason. So, why was all the above action taken in the first instance?
I am of the opinion that if the employee is good at his work, adding value to the organization, and has a valid reason for being late that cannot be avoided, we should accommodate him since he is part of the company family. We can adjust his late coming by asking him to work additional hours to make up for the time. However, this arrangement should be within a specified time frame, following a discussion with him. Otherwise, other employees may demand similar treatment. Informally, all his colleagues should be notified of this adjustment due to a valid reason.
We need to foster good employee relations, especially if his reason for delay is genuine. In my previous company, an accountant had a mentally strained spouse and had to drop his kid at school every morning. The company allowed him flexi-time for 8 months, after which he arranged for an alternative.
Ukmitra
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
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Hi Chitra,
I am not able to understand your challenge there. You are saying that he is coming late frequently and acknowledged the reason is genuine. If you have that mentality, you may not make good decisions.
If his reason is genuine, then why have you taken disciplinary actions so far? First, let's confirm what you want from him. Then, stick with that until your decision is made.
As an IR person, it is important to consider the actions we are taking and predict their impact as well.
Thanks,
Jana
From India, Jhajjar
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I am not able to understand your challenge there. You are saying that he is coming late frequently and acknowledged the reason is genuine. If you have that mentality, you may not make good decisions.
If his reason is genuine, then why have you taken disciplinary actions so far? First, let's confirm what you want from him. Then, stick with that until your decision is made.
As an IR person, it is important to consider the actions we are taking and predict their impact as well.
Thanks,
Jana
From India, Jhajjar
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Dear Chitra,
Being a member of the Union doesn't permit an employee to be habitually late for his duty. In fact, it is expected from union personnel to be a role model in order to guide the masses to follow discipline inside the plant. Considering the genuine case, you may consider a shift change if possible, but late coming should not be allowed on a regular basis.
I suggest you discuss the issue with the General Secretary/President of the union and issue him an advisory note seeking justification as to why management shouldn't take disciplinary proceedings against him.
Regards,
Arvind
From India, Delhi
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Being a member of the Union doesn't permit an employee to be habitually late for his duty. In fact, it is expected from union personnel to be a role model in order to guide the masses to follow discipline inside the plant. Considering the genuine case, you may consider a shift change if possible, but late coming should not be allowed on a regular basis.
I suggest you discuss the issue with the General Secretary/President of the union and issue him an advisory note seeking justification as to why management shouldn't take disciplinary proceedings against him.
Regards,
Arvind
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ms. Chitra,
As suggested by others, I also agree that it is not a union concern. If the employee has committed misconduct, you have to make a decision and not wait for or decide as per the union. Please follow your certified standing orders and, as per natural justice, take action. If all formalities like warning, show cause, and a charge sheet are conducted through a domestic enquiry and the same procedure is followed as per your standing orders, if a clause is mentioned, you can suspend him for a week or as required without pay. Additionally, you can disconnect his/her non-statutory facilities, whichever is applicable.
Regards,
Ramnath
From India, Bangalore
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As suggested by others, I also agree that it is not a union concern. If the employee has committed misconduct, you have to make a decision and not wait for or decide as per the union. Please follow your certified standing orders and, as per natural justice, take action. If all formalities like warning, show cause, and a charge sheet are conducted through a domestic enquiry and the same procedure is followed as per your standing orders, if a clause is mentioned, you can suspend him for a week or as required without pay. Additionally, you can disconnect his/her non-statutory facilities, whichever is applicable.
Regards,
Ramnath
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Chitra,
Being a Union Office Bearer does not absolve an employee from adhering to the Standing Orders of any organization. A union is different, and S.O. is different. If his reasons for arriving late are genuine, and you can permit him to come late on humanitarian grounds, you can proceed as long as it does not affect productivity or the output of the activity concerned.
If there are shift rotations, perhaps you can consider placing him in other shifts where he can arrive on time. We need to analyze such issues on a case-by-case basis and avoid hasty actions.
Regards,
Sridhar N
From India, Madras
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Being a Union Office Bearer does not absolve an employee from adhering to the Standing Orders of any organization. A union is different, and S.O. is different. If his reasons for arriving late are genuine, and you can permit him to come late on humanitarian grounds, you can proceed as long as it does not affect productivity or the output of the activity concerned.
If there are shift rotations, perhaps you can consider placing him in other shifts where he can arrive on time. We need to analyze such issues on a case-by-case basis and avoid hasty actions.
Regards,
Sridhar N
From India, Madras
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Dear Chitra,
If you know that he has a genuine reason for being late, why have you taken actions against him? Union members are there to protect the rights of employees, not their own interests. According to the Standing Orders Act, late coming is considered a gross misconduct. After issuing a show-cause notice, you can send a charge sheet for conducting a domestic inquiry and then allow him to prove that his lateness is justified.
Ms. Chitra, as an Industrial Relations (IR) person, you should be strong enough to resolve such issues. If you grant leeway to this union representative, there will be no end to other employees demanding the same from you. You will then find yourselves in a difficult position.
If you need more information on this matter, you can always contact me at 9909001742 (after 7 pm).
Regards,
Abhijeet Sawant
From India, Ahmadabad
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If you know that he has a genuine reason for being late, why have you taken actions against him? Union members are there to protect the rights of employees, not their own interests. According to the Standing Orders Act, late coming is considered a gross misconduct. After issuing a show-cause notice, you can send a charge sheet for conducting a domestic inquiry and then allow him to prove that his lateness is justified.
Ms. Chitra, as an Industrial Relations (IR) person, you should be strong enough to resolve such issues. If you grant leeway to this union representative, there will be no end to other employees demanding the same from you. You will then find yourselves in a difficult position.
If you need more information on this matter, you can always contact me at 9909001742 (after 7 pm).
Regards,
Abhijeet Sawant
From India, Ahmadabad
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Dear Ms. Chitra,
Considering your actions and the current circumstances at your placement, I would like to suggest that management could consider other options:
1. Redeploying to more suitable shifts and timings could bring about several advantages. This approach could help maintain good relations with the union and protect your disciplinary culture from being compromised by opportunistic individuals.
2. It is important to take all necessary precautions when implementing this suggestion to prevent it from setting a precedent. By doing so, you may need to engage with the union leadership cautiously.
3. I would also like to mention that Industrial Relations (IR) are evolving, especially with the upcoming changes in the political landscape.
4. It is crucial to educate every trade union about their responsibilities and encourage them to contribute to maintaining competitiveness.
Best Wishes,
Prasanta Roy Choudhury
From India, Calcutta
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Considering your actions and the current circumstances at your placement, I would like to suggest that management could consider other options:
1. Redeploying to more suitable shifts and timings could bring about several advantages. This approach could help maintain good relations with the union and protect your disciplinary culture from being compromised by opportunistic individuals.
2. It is important to take all necessary precautions when implementing this suggestion to prevent it from setting a precedent. By doing so, you may need to engage with the union leadership cautiously.
3. I would also like to mention that Industrial Relations (IR) are evolving, especially with the upcoming changes in the political landscape.
4. It is crucial to educate every trade union about their responsibilities and encourage them to contribute to maintaining competitiveness.
Best Wishes,
Prasanta Roy Choudhury
From India, Calcutta
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I agree with all the views, but the one which I would like to highlight is that union members are supposed to be the role models for the rest. Unfortunately, we have a cancerous system here (the "left"). We will never be a welfare state as long as these infectious factors persist.
Regards,
Viswanath
From India, Surat
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Regards,
Viswanath
From India, Surat
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Dear Chitra,
As you have said, if the reasons are genuine, then find out whether the late coming can be accommodated within the permissible limits after speaking to the management. However, the rider is - the employee should make up for the hours missed out by either working overtime or an extra shift, as the case may be. This is to prevent others from using lame excuses as a pretext for their misconduct.
As an IR Person, ensure that the request for the same comes from the employee and approval of the competent authority for such deviation is obtained beforehand to prevent the matter from being followed as a precedent by someone else.
Moreover, an IR Person does not contemplate disciplinary action at the first instance unless the situation warrants it. In fact, it should be used as a last resort. A whip is shown to the horse not to beat it but to show it and create fear in its mind so that it obeys the whip wielder.
Finally, becoming a union member does not mean you are unpunishable and above board. Please refer to the clause of Protected Workmen in the Industrial Disputes Act, where it is clear that only those declared as protected workmen are not punishable for the activities carried out while discharging their legal union responsibilities. Therefore, there is no need to be afraid if the employee is a union member. All union members/union office bearers are not protected workmen. So sit back and relax, view the case more rationally than emotionally.
All the best,
Premson
From India, Mangaluru
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As you have said, if the reasons are genuine, then find out whether the late coming can be accommodated within the permissible limits after speaking to the management. However, the rider is - the employee should make up for the hours missed out by either working overtime or an extra shift, as the case may be. This is to prevent others from using lame excuses as a pretext for their misconduct.
As an IR Person, ensure that the request for the same comes from the employee and approval of the competent authority for such deviation is obtained beforehand to prevent the matter from being followed as a precedent by someone else.
Moreover, an IR Person does not contemplate disciplinary action at the first instance unless the situation warrants it. In fact, it should be used as a last resort. A whip is shown to the horse not to beat it but to show it and create fear in its mind so that it obeys the whip wielder.
Finally, becoming a union member does not mean you are unpunishable and above board. Please refer to the clause of Protected Workmen in the Industrial Disputes Act, where it is clear that only those declared as protected workmen are not punishable for the activities carried out while discharging their legal union responsibilities. Therefore, there is no need to be afraid if the employee is a union member. All union members/union office bearers are not protected workmen. So sit back and relax, view the case more rationally than emotionally.
All the best,
Premson
From India, Mangaluru
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Hi there, I'm not sure of your laws that govern employees, but generally speaking, if an employee is continuously late, it is unacceptable regardless of the problem he/she might have. Yes, it is a form of misconduct and needs to be made aware of the rules if he/she did not know them. Being a union member does not give him the right to do as he/she pleases. I would suggest that you look at the company policy regarding late coming and deal with the employee accordingly.
From South Africa, Johannesburg
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From South Africa, Johannesburg
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Even union exetuives are not having immunity from discilinary actions for such like misconducts.go ahead with strict actions.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Hi all If the demands of Union are ingenuine, but the union is strong and violent... Then how should we tackle such a situation!! Regards Aman
From India, Ludhiana
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From India, Ludhiana
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DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS PROCEDURE.xls
LATE COMING.doc