Psdhingra
Legal Analyst, Hrm
Tajsateesh
Recruitment/talent Acquisition, Career Counselling
+1 Other

Thread Started by #Mohan BN

I have worked in Oracle India Pvt. Ltd. for 3 years right after B.E from 2009 to 2012 and then resigned to jump into entrepreneurship. The jump was made with the trust on group of friends and worked hard for 3 years. We just had one person take care of all administrative work who registered the company as Pvt. Ltd. and had himself and his family members as Directors on paper. The rest of us were just working out of mere trust and no mention in any official document.

Unfortunately just couple of months back I was forced to leave the company. As a result, currently I don't even have any experience certificate from the company because there is no official document that I was a part of it. All the proof I have is just my Facebook timeline showing the photos of all those old times. So, when I apply for a company for a job now I can only claim about all my experience of entrepreneurship but cannot provide any official documental proof. What should I do in this case?
20th October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Hi Mohan, If you have resigned properly then you should be having resignation acceptance copy or any document provided by the company, so this may help you in getting new job. Thanks.
20th October 2015 From India, Delhi
Hi Ramita,
Unfortunately it was a bitter conversation that I had with the Founder and then we just departed ways. Neither of us contacted each other. When there is no document stating that I am working in the company I don't see how would there be a document to say that I resigned from the company.
20th October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Forget it if your own frind's company cannot give you experience certificate. Any organisation can pose trust on a piece of paper document, known as experience certificate, but not on a person.
21st October 2015 From India, Delhi
Hello Mohan,
How were you getting your salary--thru cheques OR cash OR bank transfer?
Were your salary payments regular OR irregular? And when was the last salary you got here?
What's your technical skill profile?
You mentioned "The rest of us were just working out of mere trust and no mention in any official document"--how many were there like you?
Pl give the above inputs to arrive @ some solution........and I do hope you have learnt your lesson with this experience--always BACKUP any informal understanding with paperwork.
Frankly, I am surprised....either you guys have been too naive OR the Directors have been too over-smart to take you for a ride.
Rgds,
TS
21st October 2015 From India, Hyderabad
Hello Tajsateesh! Here are the answers. Our payments initially were through cheques and later through bank transfers. Payments were regular but last 2 months neither was I paid nor reimbursed for the expenses made which were assured to be reimbursed. Last salary was in the month of May. June and July no payments were made and I made a decision to discontinue any further communication after that because I was fed up of requesting (literally begging) for my salary and reimbursement persistently.
As I stated above since it was entrepreneurship, I assumed a lot of roles as speaker, trainer, mentor, sales, marketing, operations, associate editor etc. About 8 of us were working in the core team. Definitely I have learnt loads of lessons with this experience. I think you are right to use AND instead of OR in your last statement
22nd October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Hello Mr. Dhingra! "Any organisation can pose trust on a piece of paper document, known as experience certificate, but not on a person". I couldn't get the exact meaning of this sentence. Can you kindly elaborate?
22nd October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Dear Mohan,
Any organisation you work for has to keep records what you submit along with your cv. You are always a stranger for any new organisation for whose job you apply for. They can't trust a stranger merely on the face of his verbal statement or even in writing unless thay have any supporting document from the last organisation about your work & conduct and attitudes and the nature of experience you gained in that organisation that you would have demonstrated in the last organisation, so that they may get verified about the truthfulness or falsehood of your claim. So, they can only trust on a piece of paper document of that organisation, but not you.
But one pertinent question arises, when you have stated that you assumed a lot of roles as speaker, trainer, mentor, sales, marketing, operations, associate editor etc, that too in an organisation of your own friends, why the company is feeling shy of issuing you the experience letter?
22nd October 2015 From India, Delhi
Hello Mohan,

First thing is that you can use the Bank Statements for your Salary Proof......and consequently [though this COULD be tough] as proof of your service @ this Company.

You can take a stand that it's a startup & there are no proper records.

BTW, do you have internal correspondence that COULD show you working here?

Coming to the skills you gathered here, I am sure you did......having seen first-hand such situations.

All of them would stand you in good stead as you move forward from here.

But what I meant by 'What's your technical skill profile?' is about your core skill(s). The rest you gathered here are additional skills.......for now at least.

This would be important for you in your job hunt......you have to focus/project a Primary Skillset followed by other skills. You can't say I can do this, this & that....the perception you would be giving is 'lack of focus'.

Hope you get the point.

When you begin your search for new jobs, I am not sure IF you should give a detailed account in your interviews....since that COULD lead to situations that MAY be out of your control. But that DOESN'T mean you need to bluff/lie.......you SHOULDN'T. Handle it tactfully. Companies don't usually take lightly a candidate who gives negative inputs about the current employer....even though that might be true.

@ PS DHINGRA---

W.r.t. your statement "...........why the company is feeling shy of issuing you the experience letter?", pl note that there are dime-a-dozen Companies who don't hesitate to take advantage of such situations in this Country.

If you go thru some of the past threads in this very Forum, we find Companies just refusing.....on one pretext or the other.... to give the Relieving Docs.....despite the employee completing the NP.

@ the EoD, even though the Company is an entity that ought NOT to have any human frailties but go as per paper trail, it's after all 'human beings' who have to issue such Docs......and that's when idiosyncrasies, egos, hangups, etc come into the picture leading to such situations.

I have known a recent situation where one old candidate of ours....and someone with ~20 yrs exp.....[now more of a friend] got a shock of his life when his technical inventions were patented by the R&D Head & the Company without this guy even knowing about it. He later got to know about it from a III party & that's when he quit after an ugly spat.

Such Companies & people keep popping-up everywhere in this world & frankly, I don't think we can blame the Companies.....after all the leopard can't & doesn't change it's spots. The irony is that we get to notice the spots ONLY when such situations come to pass....even though, I am sure, indications & alerts would have come much earlier.

@ the EoD, the individual needs to be more vigilant.

Rgds,

TS
22nd October 2015 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Mr. Dhingra! Thanks for your briefing. I never submitted my CV to the company as it was started working with friends. There is no official documentation that I am officially part of the company assuming any role anywhere in last 3 years. Even if I ask for an experience certificate I might get one stating I worked there but it's just like any person who can get the letter for some money because it cannot date back to any absorption of talent any time in past. So, I am not sure if the letter serves any purpose. Moreover, I have not just worked like an employee there to get an experience certificate at the end of 3 years of struggle to build the company.
23rd October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Hello Mohan,
Vis-a-vis you line "Moreover, I have not just worked like an employee there to get an experience certificate at the end of 3 years of struggle to build the company", pl DON'T mix-up issues.
What you are looking for NOW is not recognition whether you worked here like an employee OR as a Founder.
This is a situation when you need to 'think thru the head' rather than 'thinking thru the heart'.
Rgds,
TS
23rd October 2015 From India, Hyderabad
- Yes, I can get the bank statement but entrepreneurship didn't yield the income that I had in Oracle. So, whatever was paid was more of reimbursing some expenses to sustain without asking money from parents than to quote it as a salary. So, won't it have negative impact when I saw to future employers. In Oracle I had close to 7LPA as CTC. I would like to quote that.

- There are some documents I have with the letter heads of the company and my name being mentioned under different roles. There are certificates and appreciation letters that we handed out to our students in training programs that has my signature. Do you approve these as internal correspondence or anything else is required?

- My primary job in the entrepreneurship was TRAINING. But for IU clubs wing I did complete end-to-end operations of market outreach, sales and marketing, closing of sales, taking up sessions, conducting competitions and conventions, client relationship management (keeping in consistent contact with students and parents for discussions and feedback). Same was the case for i3 training program that I did for 6 months in Hyderabad. Along with this my primary job was also to edit all the articles before they went for publishing for our e-magazine. Also as the Lead speaker of the company I was responsible for taking up speeches when invited from different organizations.

My technical skill profile in Oracle was Business Intelligence/Datawarehousing and none in entrepreneurship (Inspiration Unlimited). So, is there something that I am missing here?

So, I just have to say that things didn't work out well between us and I moved out.
23rd October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Yeah! Got it. Words just went beyond the context at that line
23rd October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Dear TS,
I wonder, if your assumption based reply for an on behalf of the author on my asking a question from the author was justified, that too without seeing the reply of the author on my query.! The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate.
24th October 2015 From India, Delhi
Mr. Mohan,
Your reply and assumption on behalf of the management of your friend is quite surprising! Any experience letter is not CV based, rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work.
However, I am now fully convinced that your query was of hypothetical and academic nature, not for the purpose of seeking a solution to any problem you would faced any.
24th October 2015 From India, Delhi
Hello PS Dhingra,

Vis-a-vis your remark "The author claims that he worked for his friend's company, where he should not have faced any difficulty in getting an experience certificate", you are right WHEN the assumption is that the friendship STILL EXISTS.

You seem to be fortunate in career/life not to see friendships break-off WITH A RUPTURE/SPAT. Hence, I can understand your view-point & conclusion in this issue.

Unfortunately, Mohan's experience of THIS particular friendship......and I can say that such relationships DO EXIST on this planet......has been neither fair nor good. Going by the little details about the relationship what he mentioned AND my own observations along my life path, I CAN venture to say that Mohan has been 'solidly used' by them.

That Mohan has ALLOWED it to happen for 3 yrs is HIS learning process....he always had a choice even initially to refuse.

So expecting any document when the relationship has soured.....which he has explained in the First Posting.....isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus, IF the Doc comes.

In a way, you have a point when you say "Any experience letter is not CV based, rather depends upon the performance of the employee and the period of work".

But what IF someone says "I JUST DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU ANY DOC...DO WHAT YOU WANT" or something with similar meaning?

If you think such things don't happen, suggest pl correct yourself & thank your stars that you haven't had the misfortune to have come across such situations in life--and I am NOT being sarcastic here--just plain realistic, since I know such situations can happen & have happened to many people.....one of which I already mentioned earlier in this thread.

However, I STILL WOULDN'T generalize this scenario [just because it happened to a few people doesn't mean we need to look @ every similar situation thru the same prism]......it's for this very reason that I kept asking queries to doubly ensure all of us are addressing a REAL situation rather than, like you rightly pointed out 'hypothetical and academic' situations. If no clarifications were forthcoming, I would have just switch-off myself from participating in this thread.

How other members respond/react would be their prerogative/choice I guess.

Rgds,

TS
24th October 2015 From India, Hyderabad
Thank you so much @Tajsateesh!!!!!! I don't know if I could explain in such a detail like you've done here. Thank you so much for your time and patience. However, one statement of yours has fully summarised my issue here. - "So expecting any document when the relationship has soured.....which he has explained in the First Posting.....isn't realistic. It would just be a bonus, IF the Doc comes."

I am sorry if any of my answers felt like unnecessary use of Mr. Dhingra's time. I regret the inconvenience caused unintentionally.

Let me try to make this discussion more objective-oriented than series of explanations.

Q1. After the successful completion of training program I was authorised to conduct in Hyderabad and the bitter conversation with the Director there has been no correspondence from the company for any other further work. It all stopped in July end. No expenses were reimbursed or salary issued from June month. When I repeatedly asked for reimbursement, it was only told that it will be done but never happened. So, I stopped the literal begging for asking my own money back. SO WHAT SHOULD BE MY NEXT STEP?

Q2. As per formal records, there is no document to show that Mohan BN was hired or joined the Founding team of the company. So, does it make sense to ask for an experience letter when there is no document to support the inception of my role in the company at any point of time in the past.

Q3. The Director didn't bother to connect to me to ask about my job/career after July and when one of my relatives messaged for such unfair treatment he just messaged me to meet him November first week which was 2 weeks away. Should I ask for experience letter if at all that meeting happens?

Q4. If I don't get any kind of formal proof that I have been working on field for last 3 years of struggle what precautions should I take or things I should be ready with while applying for new jobs henceforth?

Hope I have made the discussion more point based and clearer for solution providers.
24th October 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Hello Mohan,

TO cut a longish story short, let me repeat what I suggested to another member today for his problem thru PMs......up to you to call it coincidence or providence........:

"I always suggest this in CiteHR: "Aim & work towards the Best-case-Scenario AND prepare mentally for the Worst-case-Scenario. That way, there won't be many surprises in life. Most often, problems come NOT due to the problems themselves, BUT due the inability of the individual accepting the factual situation & COPING with it".

This, I think, right away applies to you too.

And to answer your Q3....by all means go & meet the Director in I week of Nov AND ask him for the Docs.....don't need to beg NOR ask it as a favor. Asking him for the Docs as the fair way to close the issue formally COULD be a better way. However, I do think he will come-up with his side of the story on why the relationship soured--which I do believe would have at least some validity--but DON'T get into that trap of digging the past.

All the Best.

Rgds,

TS
24th October 2015 From India, Hyderabad
Dear TS,

Your present post is also filled up with more presumptions rather than any fact to have already stated by the querist. Rather from your own presumptions, like soured relationship, the querist has fabricating his stories to unduly stretch his thread and has posted some silly questions, as if he is a child and want spoon feeding or working merely on directions from other members of this community, rather than using his own brain, for example, he questioned, "Should I ask for experience letter if at all that meeting happens," while it is a matter of commonsense that when the director has called him for discussion of his own problem, why should he not discuss the real problem? Naturally, he would not have invited him to attend the marriage ceremony of his son or his own birthday.

Also, what a sort of his silly thinking of "no proof", as if he worked merely on oral directions or did all his jobs verbally without leaving any clue on record, what he did and with what results for all the three year sof his work in the company and had been drawing salary for merely verbal activities only!

Frankly speaking, I am of the view that his postings smack merely a fabricated and hypothetical problem, with exxageration of facts, for the reason best known to him only.
25th October 2015 From India, Delhi
Just thought this could be useful to you & quite relevant for you Mohan.
The Viral Fever's cofounders battle it out in court against each other - The Economic Times
The story is much the same in quite a few Startups.
Rgds,
TS
27th October 2015 From India, Hyderabad
Hello Satish,
As per your guidance I mailed the MD of my previous company for the experience letter. After following up for 2 weeks finally received the letter of experience. Thanks for your help in this process!
19th November 2015 From India, Bengaluru
Like the Saying goes "All's Well that ends well" Mohan.
Count yourself lucky that you got the Doc in 2 weeks......many end-up doing rounds for months.
Also hope you have learnt from this incident.......IF Yes, then it's no more a 'mistake' but forms a part of your overall 'experience'.
All the Best in your career.
Rgds,
TS
19th November 2015 From India, Hyderabad
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