Umakanthan53
Labour Law & Hr Consultant
Boss2966
Industrial Relations
Cmmohla
Hrm, Ir & Adminstration
M S N KHAN
Senior Consultant (security)
+2 Others

Thread Started by #cmmohla

Dear All.
Kindly advise whether one department of an organisation can be registered as trade union? If yes, is it mandatory for a company to recognise such union as the union is being form to threaten the organisation to take any discipilnary action against the employees even when they are wrong or not working in accordance to company policy?Kindly advise how to deal with such employees or union?they are not even 1/10 of the company manpower strength rest of the employees are not in their support.
Thanks & Regards
C.M.Mohla
18th June 2014 From India, Delhi
Dear Mohla
Please approach the Labour Commissioner Office who is the registrar of Trade Unions, with all the data and proof of that trade union and appraise them not to register them under Trade Union Act.
Further you can create your own supporters to register themselves as two Trade Union and make the members to join in those unions. Keep both the Unions under your control and do not cut the privileges of any workers for any reason. Please do it without the knowledge of others and after registration bring the same to the notice of the workers. Whatever happenings please keep informing to the Management. Keep all the records and details strictly secret.
If you work proactively, you can break the back bone of the agitators and those who act against the company and workers.
Keep informed about the progress of the problems, so that our members can guide you from time to time.
Wish you all the best.
18th June 2014 From India, Kumbakonam
Dear Mr. Bhaskar,
Kindly elaborate what data should i provide to labour commissioner officer.We as an employer never cut the priviledges of any worker.Actualy these employees are miscreant & they are brainwashing other employees as well.They dont work properly and if we exert some pressure they goes on long esi leaves now when we are talking to esi officials so on this, they are now planning to form union and unnecessarily pollute the enviornment of our organisation & exert pressure on us so that no disciplinary action should be taken by us against them.What are the other steps can we take if they successed in forming union.
Kindly advise
Thanks & Regards
C.M.Mohla
18th June 2014 From India, Delhi
Dear Mohla,

Forming a trade union is a fundamental right and its registration is governed by the provisions of the Trade Unions Act,1926. It is the duty of the Registrar of Trade Unions to see whether the applicant/union is qualified to be registered or not. The employer has no say in that matter and any overt or covert attempt of the employer to scuttle the unionisation of his employees for whatsoever reason would tantamount to unfair labour practice which is explicitly prohibited u/s 25T AND punishable with imprisonment or fine or with both u/s 25U of the Industrial Disputes Act,1947. So, don't try to do anything in excess of enthusiasm or haste. On the other hand, make some introspection as to why all the workmen of a particular section resort to such acts of indiscipline and forming a separate union for themselves. Your language about their nature and the attempt to garner strength from their fellow-workmen in other sections shows your preconception and fear psychosis about trade union. Better try to find out the cause of the disease dispassionately rather than treating the symptoms.
19th June 2014 From India, Salem
The outdated laws are not keeping up with the time which is hampering the progress. We as a nation need to introspect and decide how long we would carry the burden on our neck which is harming our progress seriously.
Once a group decides upon wrecking the organisation the management is pretty much left to fend for itself.
Person trying to discipline the workermen would be the first target. Management would happily sacrifice him to buy temporary peace.
Hence proceed with caution. Don't become a scapegoat.
20th June 2014 From India, Thane
HI MEMBERS,

ACCORDING TO INDIAN TRADE UNION ACT, TO REGISTER OR TO ESTABLISH UNION IN AN ORGANISATION, PEOPLE WILLING TO JOIN THE UNION MUST BE 10% OF TOTAL WORK FORCE (LABOUR) IF ONLY 100 WORKERS ARE EMPLOYED ELSE MINIMUM OF 100 WORKERS STRENGTH IS NEEDED IF THE COMPANY POPULATION IS MORE THAN 100. SIMILARLY AN ORGANISATION CAN HAVE ANY NUMBER OF REGISTERED TRADE UNION IF ABOVE CONDITIONS ARE MET.

ALSO TO RUN THE TRADE UNION IN THE ORGANISATION BELOW POINT IS IMPORTANT,

A registered trade union of workmen shall at all times continue to have

not less than 10% or 100 of the workmen, whichever is less, subject to

a minimum of 7 persons engaged or employed in the establishment or

industry with which it is connected, as its members.

ABOVE IS THE LAW. USUALLY WORKERS THREATEN EMPLOYERS ONLY IF THEY ARE NOT SATISFIED OR MISTRUST THE EMPLOYER. MY ORGANISATION IS 30 YEAR OLD, BUT STILL A SMALL SCALE INDUSTRY. THIS IS PARTIALLY BECAUSE OF UNION PROBLEM. TRY AVOIDING THEM JOINING UNION BY FORMING A EMPLOYER WELFARE TEAM AND ATTEND TO THEIR NEEDS IMMEDIATELY. THIS WILL WORK. FOR PAST SEVEN YEARS WE HAVE AVOIDED STRIKE OR UNION TROUBLE BY DOING IT. ALL THE BEST.

I'M HAVING ONLY 8 MONTH EXP IN H.R FIELD, BUT I HAVE DEVELOPED GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH ALL TYPE OF WORKERS ONLY BE ATTENDING TO THEIR REAL NEEDS. HOPE THIS FINDS YOU USEFUL.

MEMBERS PLS CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. THANK YOU
20th June 2014 From India, Chennai
Any employee or outsider claiming support of workmen can drag you to labor court, abuse you there, threaten physical harm. Only remedy you have is through FIR. Labour authorities will entertain any number of complaints repeatedly on the same subject. Your time your prestige your well being are of no interest to them. As lo g as you take of their welfare it is your duty. Moment you remind them of their responsibilities you are their personal e enemy and fair game for one and all. If you are a naive HR person better to become wiser now and ensure you don't annoy the workers as well as management. All the best.
20th June 2014 From India, Thane
Please provide the nature of work performed by those workers. Forming union is employees rights and employer can not neglect it. Once union is established in an organisation then nothing can be done about it as it is always influenced by political, union leaders etc. To avoid union employer must act accordingly.
Option 1:
Attend to their needs and solve the problem and reduce the tension.
Option 2:
If you are lucky to avoid union in your org. And still feel your employee will join the union in future then i advice you to bring all your workers under contract labour.
20th June 2014 From India, Chennai
The questioner has not come forward so far to frankly present the actual reasons for the present development as well as additional important details such as the age of the industrial establishment and the nature of its manufactory, total strength of permanent workmen and their average age, the number of contract labour and casuals engaged and the nature of activities of such indirect engagement, existence of any union in the establishment, in the absence of any trade union, the practice of determination of monetary benefits such as wages, bonus and periodicity of their revision followed all along, the welfare amenities provided to the workmen, the system of grievance redressal put in place,the system of disciplinary control in vogue and its impact on work culture and bilateral relations and the like. Without knowing all these things, the advise tendered by the learned members - some of whom do seem to have bitter past experience in this regard and some others have an artificial sense of gratification by applying the principles of situational management dictated by sheer common sense - looks like directing the sailor to steer fast across the tip of an ice-berg. Employment, in its narrowest sense, is a means of livelihood.So, people who let themselves under the disposal of the employer come to earn their livelihood rather to fight against him. Still, if fight or conflict arises means that either of them or at times both may be greedy and inconsiderate. Therefore, it is imperative for the questioner's top-management to make some dispassionate introspection into the entire goings-on and find out whether the agitative mind-set is confined to a particular section because of any specific adversity pertaining only to it or to the entire workforce and take remedial measures to set things right. Trade Unions are everywhere. Can any one cite any country or economy sans Trade Union? Of course its effective role-play is getting gradually diluted in the era of Globalisation and Privatisation. But, it does not mean that Trade Union is an obstacle to progress if the progress is not a lop-sided one. When the employer has the magnanimity to accept his labour as one of the stakeholders of his industry and the honesty to address their concern transparently, he will recognize the Trade Union as a parallel Institution for conflict resolution.So, the management should not be unnecessarily scared of the Union Leaders whether external or otherwise for they are not from an alien planet and they are aware of the limits of elasticity of concessions that can be granted by the management.If experience with any Trade Union is bitter in the matter of conflict resolution, the pointers will certainly lead to extraneous reasons like politics, intellectual arrogance, personal hidden agenda etc,. One friend pointed out that our Labour Laws are obstacles to progress.I am not able to understand how he has come to such a drastic conclusion. If the provisions of some of the Laws are highly regulatory and prohibitive, it is only because the circumstances prevailing then. Can any one say such circumstances of exploitation in the forms of indirect employment for years together as trainees or off-roll employees or fixed term appontments, closing the places of employment in a particular location suddenly with a simple notice of " suspension of operations"and starting a fresh one elsewhere with residential apprentices and residual casual labour on pittance wages, outsourcing the major chunk of workforce under the guise of contract labour whose speciality is that the labour will be the same but the contractors would change in rotation, framing wage structures in such a way that the liability of the employer would be minimal in terms of terminal benefits of the employees and so on so forth. In such sordid state of affairs involving questions of law, ecnomics and ethics, I don't understand how one can decry the representation of outsiders in Trade Union.If the employer's attitude and response are the sum product of probity,fairness and concern for the employees' welfare in tandem with the industry's future backed by his business acumen, no union would dare to betray him.Mr.Mohli, don't try to indirectly float a rival union in support of the management for class consciousness can not be so easily eliminated. It would be similar to that of a young bachelor being scared of the torments of family life becoming a sanyasin and then running an ashram and orphanage.
20th June 2014 From India, Salem
Any 7 workers can form a Union as per Trade Union Act. Management have to agree upon registered Union. Pls follow the Trade Union Act.
Unions are not always Anti management. But you have control the indiscipline and work on building culture.
Steps to Follow..
1. First check with which external union they want to get registered.
2. Whether, the external union is from ruling party of the state/locality.
3. If it is a ruling party then discuss or try to convince them and ask them not to give grant.
4. Discuss with your local labour dept; show them if you have chargesheeted any of them. You can also show-cause them if they are against the policy. Follow the Model standing order, if you don\'t have certified standing order.
5. Try to take the majority of other worker\'s view in writing for having Union and submit to the DLC and external union if desired.
KEEP INFORMED TO YOUR MANAGEMENT.
Rgds\'
PS

20th June 2014 From India, Bangalore
I stand by whatever I wrote in my earlier posts. I am sorry if i have soundrd bitter. But that is my oersonal experience.

The labour situation in our country is mainly due to the outdated laws, inspector raj and the general failure of all of us. I am sure many would agree with my statement about outdated laws. Even by looking at the year a law was enacted cleverly shows they have antique value. Most of these laws are amended subsequently only for cosmetic reasons. If somebody says our laws don't need to be revised and adequate to meet the present challenges which could never have been anticipated in those days I respect their views.I humbly submit that the situation needs honest introspection which would benefit the workers community.

I have seen first hand how the trade unions actions for more bonus had crippled the textile industry in tiruppur and kept the workers family hungry for months. What about mumbai. Are we happy with the strikes here.

I wish to quote a very senior labour consultants here. One factory did not respect the factory inspector the way he is used to be respected". As he could not find fault any where, he charged them for not keeping the white wash register updated under sec 11 C of factory act 1948. The firm neglected this aspect as it had completely covered all bathrooms with tiles. That is the power of inspectors and everyone is scared of inspections. I don't doubt there are many noble persons who are actually working for the welfare of workers but they are a rare commodity.
20th June 2014 From India, Thane
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