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Thread Started by #nijanc

Hello Seniors

Good day..

I want to discribe the case stady here. In my company a employee is completely not following disciplines and so that we gave memo and after that also the same thing happened so i taken decission of termination. so i terminated him suddenly and i agree to pay FnF settlement.

At the same time other employees are got dispointed because of this sudden action and they thought that management taking action without any courtesy and they think that no job security for them.

I realized these thing so i conducted meeting with them and explained all about this.(Its not necessary to say all this thing to employees but i said because of clear the fear of them.

In that same day some employees completely drunk and came to office(They are working in nightshift) .

I comes to know that next day from security person. but i didn't pinpoint him because i don't want to make them stress more.. so i left...

then 4 of the person taken leave of 2 days without giving prior information and they did't come for next 3 days...

I need advice from you seniors... what i have to do in this case? if they came back to duty what i take action for that...? pls advice me...
6th May 2013 From India, Chennai
Dear Nijan,
What ever you have done is right. Taking disciplinary action against the employees who are tardy is the rule followed by any organization. But, why are the other fellow employees disappointed and feeling low? Is this the first time to your company to execute this rule? You have done your part by clearly explaining other employees no to panic. But still they are doing the same. Try to explain and convince them one mote time. If the same thing repeats, its better to escalate the issue to your top level authority before its gets too late to sort out.
Thanks & Regards,
Srilakshmi korukonda
6th May 2013 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Nijan

First of all you have to issue a show cause notice to the employee asking for a written explanation why suitable explanation should not be taken for the indiscipline activities. If they employee not given any reply or if the reply found unsatisfactory then you have to issue a charge sheet and an enquiry officer has to appointed & in the due process of enquiry you have to prove that he has involved himself in indiscipline activities, according to the gross of misconduct he has to be punished as per the standing orders applicable to you. Without these formalities if you have terminated any employee they can move to labour court & they may get in to the job with back wages.

Secondly you have told that you have explained the happenings to the other employees. Good. Other things you have to do is you have to continuously you have to motivate them & must take them in confidence to avoid labour unrest.

If any employees came to duty in drunken state is a very serious misconduct & it should be viewed seriously. You instruct your security personnel that in case if anybody comes to duty in drunken state immediately the security personnel should take them to the registered medical practitioner & must do blood test & prove him he was in a drunken state, then you have to issue charge sheet & follow the above formalities.

In case of unauthorized absenteeism you have to issue a show cause notice & follow above formalities.

Hope the information will be useful to you.

With Regards,

6th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Thanks for your valuble replay - Srilakshmi and Magesh. but i still having confusion whether have to continue with these employees or go for recruit new one...because it affect overall productivity of my organization.. so if they come back then i have issue charge sheet in case if it is happen same thing again i don't have option to resolve this issue...
My top level management stated that need alternative resources... don't want any of these employees ... just terminate them... but i wanna do that with out any labor issue so i still patient...
6th May 2013 From India, Chennai
Dear Nijan
Tell me whether they are in engineer or supervisory cadre?
If they are in above cadre then you can directly terminate them by issuing one month notice or else you have to create records against them by issuing show cause notices to them, if they commits serious misconduct immediately you can draft a charge sheet with the help of senior people & follow the enquiry procedures, after completion of enquiry you can terminate them & recruit new employees. So that you can avoid any legal problem.
With Regards,
6th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
we should never compromise for Discipline. It is a must in the office and it has to be maintained at any cost. What ever is done is correct. Then only other staff will be careful. Send a circular stating that the management cannot tolerate indiscipline in the office and who ever indulge in indiscipline will be punished. Do not be afraid of any body. Only thing is that the management shold stand with you.
Make a sudden visit to the office in the night and catch hold of stafff who are drunk and take action against them
6th May 2013 From India, Madras
Hi Nijan,
As a HR we should always tend to help the employees and in my views firstly before expelling him you should have counselled him and tried to know about the root cause or reason behind his repeated indiscipline. For this you should have treated him personally like a friend and extracted reason behind the misconduct. We saw most of the times some family problem, job disturbance, unclarity of job develops this type of behaviour. So kindness ans some threats on the name of the management could have resolve the issue. It is always a harsh decision to take resign. And similarly the others should be taken in confidence for restoring their job security.
Ashish Dadhwal
6th May 2013 From India, Hoshiarpur
Dear Ashish,
I already given counseling to the employees.. I'm not taking decission direct to termination.. i very well know that terminating employees, its not only affect individual employee and it also affect companys good will.. but thing is they are understand every situation and well know about the management ... but i didn't find the reason for this kind of activity...
7th May 2013 From India, Chennai
Dear Nijan,
As per my personal experience, i request you to please don't terminate them. Meet them within the office or any other place ( like get together). Ask them their problem, try to solve the same. Termination is not a permanent solution. It's not a easy work to convince them. But we can try.
7th May 2013 From India, New Delhi
HI Nijan,
I agree with Mr.Shivkumar view point. Termination cannot be the answer. Seeing the situation from different angle,the employees could be checking on you and management post your meeting. However, as many have pointed discipline cannot be compromised.
Before you take any action ensure couple things
1) This should not roll on to become a chronic matter. The same episode should never be repeated again.
2) Clear Communication must be made through right channel, I suggest you involve senior person from employee side who can put across management view. (Preferably not union)
3) Finally your actions should not affect overall productivity of the organisation. I suggest you first create a back up plan (eg: hire temp employees as replacement for the said employees), in case you wish to take drastic actions.You can also put them on forced leave for a weeks time to cool their heels.
Hope this helps you.
Best Regards
8th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
Hello Nijan,
Can you pl give more details about the activities of your company?
1] What is the company into--manufacturing or BPO or.....?
2] What is the employee strength--in different grades like workmen, supervisory, executive?
3] You mentioned that you did hold a counseling session--what were the reasons given for the employee's work attitude? Were they reasonable from your point-of-view?
4] Do you have any effective Union?
While 'Termination' always remains an OPTION for any HR person, that doesn't mean that it can be exercised for any or all such behavioural situations. Like you are aware, quite often the 'soft-blow' is more effective in the long-run for an organization.
Your options depend on the details of the case--so suggest mention the inputs mentioned above & the members would be able to give you more focused & appropriate suggestions.
8th May 2013 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Nijan,

From your post, it does not seem that your employees are afraid of losing their jobs.... If they had job insecurity, they would try to be more vigilant. Such employees are bad fruits, that sometimes had to be removed from the basket.

But do you also have labour organisation/union in the company? In the question, are you talking of office staff or factory labour staff?

The expectations/reactions/laws would be different in both cases.

At certain time, strict action has to be taken in right time. If an employee shows up drunk to office, it is not only breach of office conduct code, but also a grave safety issue for himself as well as everybody around.

The first point of action should have been to not allow the employee into the office in such state, or ask him to go home immediately, upon report from the security (or report to medical center, if available in the company). Followed by a written warning letter, indicating deduction of leave for that day & demanding to stop this kind of bad practice in future.

You can still issue a warning letter now, though it does not stand that much, as you can't treat it as leave, also won't be able to prove now that they were really drunk. Asking to take blood test may only worsen the matters in employees mind.

For the employees taking uninformed leaves, you should give the first verbal warning for now. I don't think it is worth a written warning. But also try to understand the reasons behind their leave & ask them to submit the predated leave application with reasons. If the reasons given are not acceptable/practical, then issue a memo making this leave unpaid, so they know they will still be reporting to the organization for this conduct.

The best way to remove their job insecurity, is to remind them that they are still employed in the organization.

Don't involve internal/external counselors until last resort, as their reports may not be very transperant to the employees. That increases job unsecurity. Try to keep the communication direct & clear.

Don't threaten them of termination in the first warning letters, but make them aware of the rules & penalties if they are broken. It is also not wrong to point out that organization can only tolerate up to a certain point & purpose/ranking of the warning letters is that they do not want to go to that extent yet.


8th May 2013
Dear Members,
In my opinion as a HR the employee has to be give 3 chances and if the situation does not improves, then we can take the last decision of terminating. As said by other members, we have taken the employee into confidence and solve the issues. Terminating the services of employees without prima facie is not advisable.
9th May 2013 From United States, Chicago
Dear All,
As per above issue there is no any sort of necessity to terminate them why because if any is absent consecutively for 10 without prior approval they would be liable for action,if not so ask for their explanation if it is not satisfactory for the Higher Authorities issue them warning if it repeats again they will be terminated.
9th May 2013 From India, Bhopal
In any case HR should not compromise with Disciplin action. If you allow once people will ride on you & expectation to pamper them will continue.
I think in consultation with senior management, you should take some harsh disciplined action to create better productive work culture.
12th May 2013 From India, Ahmedabad
First check what is the clauses on this matter in your standing orders (orin model standing orders if you do not have certified standing orders). If these matters amount to serious misconduct, you should suspend them immediately and conduct a domestic enquiry and terminate them. If not, then you need to give a show cause and issue warning to build up a case.
Your management is right and there is no place in a company for someone who comes to work drunk. These employees should be removed as soon as possible. If not, you will encourage others to behave in the same way. Find the best way to deal with the matter in line with your management's decision
14th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
1. issue circular stating indiscipline will not be tolerated and coming to factory in drunken state is banned
In case of Worker cadre:
1. give oral warning to employees who are not following guidelines and advisory note should be issued if oral warning is not working
2. issue warning letter to employees who continue to be undisciplined
3. issue charge sheet
4. conduct proper inquiry , collect evidences, take written statements
5. conduct formal hearing
6.issue show cause notice
7. impose punishment
In case of supervisory or Managerial staff:
1. give oral warning and Advisory note
2. give written warning and take written apology
3. give second warning
4. Give third warning
5. give notice as per appointment terms and conditions and terminate
16th May 2013 From India, Mumbai
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