Anil.arora
Administration Head
Tsivasankaran
Consultant
Sourav.rubi@gmail.com
Hr , Ir , Complainces
Nashbramhall
Learning & Teaching Fellow (retired)
K C S Kutty
Labour Laws
+6 Others

Thread Started by #Anonymous

My query is if any employee is terminated from a company with the reason as Irregularities in punctuality & negligence of duty from your side is he eligible to get FNF....as per the company hr \"its a clear case of termination based on integrity which doesn’t allow us to pay your December’s salary.
10th April 2013 From India, Mumbai
Dear Neha,
Employee is eligible for the Full and Final Settlement in this case. He has not done anything illegal, You are terminating him on the basis of irregularities. He is eligible to FNF.
Regards
Upasana
10th April 2013 From India, Delhi
An employee on termination, howsoever the manner in which the termination was brought about, is entitled to full and final settlement. he is entitled to his salry beacuse he earned by performing work assigned to him.If any financialloss is caused by his conduct, then due procedure, recognised under law needs sto be followed to recover it.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advsior
Mumbai
10th April 2013 From India, Mumbai
#Anonymous
Thanks to all for the response.

I had raised this query as one of my family member is facing this issue.

below are the emails received from the hr when further negotiated the FNF concerns

1) This is how an employee was terminated from the firm.

================================================== ===

Sent: Thursday, 27 December 2012 1:05 PM

Subject: Termination Of Services



Dear ,

This is to inform you that your good self was appointed as“Technical associate” in “Professional Services Department” with our company on 18th July, 2012.

But due to the Irregularities in punctuality & negligence of duty from your side, management has decided to cease your agreement of service w.e.f 26th December, 2012

Your Services are terminated with immediate effect.

Thanks& Regards,

| HR Executive

===============================

2) After waiting for almost 3 months and following up with hr on phone below is the reply.

Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 12:41 PM

Subject: RE: Termination Of Services

Dear ,

I have gone through the mail below and it’s a clear case of termination based on integrity which doesn’t allow us to pay your December’s salary.

Thanks& Regards,

Manager-Human Resource

===============================

3) now they said they might pay but no fixed date already it’s been 3 months and nothing had turned up from there end.

Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013 11:32 AM

Subject: RE: FNF

Dear,

I am trying my best to release your salary. Let me confirm back to you please.

Thanks& Regards,

Manager-Human Resource

My query was can you help in a way of writing email or any other way of proceeding ahead with the same.

Neha
10th April 2013 From India, Mumbai
Dear Neha, I take this opportunity to inform bloggers that we should give all the information at the outset; this action will help experts to give precise answers.
10th April 2013 From United Kingdom
Irregularities in punctuality & negligence of duty don’t mean the employee was absconded and was not employed.

In simple words, from the date of joining until the date of termination, he/she was an employee of them and deserves the all-respective dues even after Termination, however, Irregularities in punctuality & negligence of duty, which is not acceptable at any cost and deserved the action taken by employer. However, the time he/she has enjoyed employment or worked for the organization, will be paid in the form of Full & Final, also employee will be able to get the EPF deducted amount from the salary.

About Queries and communication that you have shared with us:

#1 is the information and termination which is a procedure of the action taken by employee due to Irregularities in punctuality & negligence of duty which is a deserving action that you and employee also understand I believe and acknowledge the same

#2 the statement given by HR Manager is actually not acceptable on professional terms until the said statement included under the terms of employment latter and permits to specify or asked reasoned. If the said statement and reason presented by HR Manager comes under the terms & condition of employment, employee will not be able to get (as Quoted) salary except the deducted EPF.

#3 communications with HR/Employer and reply of them clearly says that they will not deny paying, this may because of the realization that they cannot go against the statutory/employment terms, which binds them to obey too, but they have an obvious reason for delaying in this matter.

The solution of this problem is that employee must go to HR/Employer and request to get his/her F&F. By requesting humbly, employee can only get F&F timely otherwise, the delay in responses need to bear and are obvious because of the occurred lose to them by the unprofessional act of employee.

Apart from this, I would like to say that employees must understand the expectation and need of employers, their work responsibilities. Negligence and kind of punishable act that can cause them this kind of delay and much more can bother career life by many ways. In addition, people must not play with his/her own career life by doing these unprofessional acts.
10th April 2013 From India, Gurgaon
If the termination is based on Irregularity in punctuality and negligence of duty, which is a clause of the terms and conditions of agreement of the employment, then the termination is justified, otherwise illegal.
If he had worked in December 2012 as stipulated in the Terms of Employment and without out violating any clauses, then he is entitled to the salary of December 2012.
Without disclosing the terms of employment, and what was the real issue, you cannot expect a better reply.
10th April 2013 From India, Madras
There is no denial of the fact that each & every employee is entitled for Full & Final settlement on termination of service , the amount will vary as per the parameters of the corporation / corporate / company & degree of the allegations levelled against the employee.
10th April 2013 From India, Bangalore
Hi Dear Seniors
First of all I would like to thank you all for valuable advice you are sharing on this common platform. It helped me a lot and given me the sense to put my question in front of you.
I am an HR manager in an IT company in Chandigarh. My query is foremost same. Two of our developers have been on Leave giving false pretext. We came to know from our sources that they have joined some xyz company. They did not resigned here. And the most important fact of them that they are working on very Important project.
Our company has suffered a huge loss because of their immature behaviour. Now the company head do not want me to transfer their salaries, I somehow managed to make them agreed on 15 days salaries of them.
Please let me know if the decision is right.
Regards
HR
11th April 2013 From India, Amritsar
Dear Neha,
Information provided by you is not suffiecient to provide any conculusion however as far as communication is concerned its advicable the you do any communication with the employer or HR with Registered post AD ony.
Regards
Abubakar
11th April 2013 From India, Vasai
Did you have any clause in the terms of appointment that the employees that during the course of their employment with your organisation shall not take up any other employment whether part time or full time ?
Do you have evidence that the said employees were employed in another organisation without resigning from your organisation ?
If so have you sent them any show cause notice ?
When they were on leave on false grounds and when you were aware that at the same time they were working elsewhere, on what ground you have paid them 15 days salary ?
Please go through carefully the terms and conditions of offer of employment to those two employees and then come back.

11th April 2013 From India, Madras
Dear Mr. Kutty.
Yes, We have a clause in our offer letter as well as appointment letter, that a person working with our company could not indulge in same kind of work as full time or part time or in any other nature without the consent of his or her senior or concerned authority.
No, I do not have any proof as such, but it has been a talk of office now that they have joined together in xyz company. I tried to call you both of them yesterday but they did not replied me. Neither they did replied on mail as well.
I have not paid them 15 days salary. In fact this is my query, as if it is justified to pay them 15 days salary or full month salary on no salary, keeping in mind that the company has already lost two of their prominent clients.
Any kind of advice will be helpful to sought the difference in opinions.
11th April 2013 From India, Amritsar
In addition to what Mr. Kutty said, I would suggest you to please be professional and issue them a warning latter, which is a procedure that we adopt in these kinds of cases. A warning latter which will ask them to return on job (Format can be obtained by using SEARCH option) but never advised them to resign or do any favor to them at your own.

Second, you are a responsible person for HR department and a Manager (Professional) who has to maintain the system and set examples for others, therefore; you should not defy the orders of your Bosses or object and must not have convinced your Boss to pay for 15 days salary to the employees you are talking about.

Third, if you do not have proof of their second employment, you must not claim it yourself or believe on the sources too easily that they are employed elsewhere and have presented false reasons of their absence/leave to you (HR Deptt/Employer), but can adopt the procedure to rectify this information of their SECOND EMPLOYMENT. And, if you found this information correct, you deserve the right to take actions against the employees according to the respective terms and conditions of the appointment latter and can hold the full salary until they report you back or respond against the warning latter.

Issuing them a warning later should be the first step which you have to do on immediate basis. Subsequently you need to hold their all dues/salary until you get their response. And, if found no response from them, can terminate them by following the procedure (Issuing the Termination Latter by stating the reasons) and can go further for legal help if you want, because your companies bearing a huge lose because of them, but you also have to remember that you need to prove before taking actions that these two employees are the reasons of losses what company bearing, and how?
11th April 2013 From India, Gurgaon
Hello Neha,
I guess case is like that Your relative had serve the December month in company after that your Family Member had joined the new company in January month without passing the information / Notice days to your previous employer, after that due to irregular in lots of month company has sent the Termination letter am i right??, Now your relative asking for Salary of December month.....please correct me if i am wrong
Thanking you,
Regards,
Ashish Thakkar
11th April 2013 From India, Pune
Now you can initiate disciplinary action against the two erring employees.

Send them a notice by registered post AD or reputed Courier Company and also by e-mail to their mail id directing them to report for duties immediately. Also inform them that their leave application is not considered and leave is not sanctioned.

In the meantime, find out whether they are really working in xyz company during the said leave period through informal sources.

If they do not join immediately, then issue a charge sheet for violating the terms of employment and proceeding on leave without getting leave sanctioned. Based on their reply, enquiry may be conducted and appropriate punishment may be awarded, based on the enquiry findings.

In case your organisation had suffered financial losses or could not adhere to the requirements of the clients and thereby lost your reputation, you can initiate civil case for damages.

For every action you take, you must have evidence and / or reliable witnesses and support of management to you. Otherwise, dont proceed further, just ignore this.
11th April 2013 From India, Madras
Dear Neha ,
In simple word ,I can say that ,if any person worked for the period ..(whatever may be ) its bounding to the employer to give them payment, up to final resigned or termination date. its employee's rights. Employer has to give him prior intimation to conduct according to company's rules or ready for termination. If employees behaviour doesn't change than employer can easily terminate him on this ground, but he has to pay till the last day of work.
Do all your communication by registered AD post & keep all these records for future..
Regards
Anjani Singh
14th April 2013 From India, Mumbai
There are two different posts on this almost on the same line

For the first post:

This termination appears to be illegal and the HR Department has not advised course of action correctly. A Technical Associate can fall under the definition of workman under ID Act and this person can raise a dispute and demand reinstatement. Management then will realise their mistake and try to settle properly. I always advise simple termination rather than a termination giving reasons. If a Management gives reasons like the given here, it amounts to disciplinary action and a proper enquiry should have been conducted. Your relative can raise a dsipute or send a legal notice claiming compensation for illegal termination and the Company's advocates will give correct advice.

For the Second post

Proving that the persons are working elsewhere is very tough. If you can prove, then you can terminate and even say that you would not pay the salary. However, if a person has worked for n number of days, final settlement form need to be prepared showing the balance payable by the Company and probably you can levy a fine for the same amount. You can not have two punishments and I would just levy a fine. The process will make the people to resign on their own. Alternatively, if the employees have not reported for work and certain amount is payable to them as full and final settlement, I tis particular incident I would ask them to claim legally. If they have gone and worked somewhere without telling the management, you need not feel bad for being tough.
16th April 2013 From India, Chennai
Dear All, In this case person is eligible for his FNF. & if employer not give payment contact to labour court for this purpose they help you for payment. Regards, Vivek
17th April 2013 From India, Ahmadabad
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