Samvedan
Consultancy_hr & Ir
Prasadu551@gmail.com
Freelancer Recruiter
Baazigar56
Hr Executive
+8 Others

Hi Seniors,
I would like to know the difference between On-rolls employees and Off-Rolls employees . What is the necessity to engage the employees in Off-Rolles. who are the contract employees ?
Please give me your valuable answers
Thanks & Regards,
Prasad.
2nd June 2012 From India, Gurgaon
Thank’s Kvthiru, All employees are doing similar Job ,Why are we consider as Off -rolls and On rolls? which industries / companies are take employees in Off-roll? Regards, prasad.
2nd June 2012 From India, Gurgaon
Taking further the above discussion,i would like to know that :-
1.Candidate having necessary experience is selected for an MNC(well known) ,but on "off roll".
2.The same candidate is selected for another firm which is small/ medium size company on "On roll"
Then which company the candidate should opt for?
2nd June 2012 From India, Pune
Law does not permit to substitute an on roll employee by off role or contract manpower
Contract manpower should not be related to production. This is for manufacturing industry.
Contract manpower can be assiting the production activity or supporting function.
2nd June 2012 From India, Mumbai
Mr.Prasadu
usually establishments employ directly persons on their rolls in activities of permanent and core nature.They cannot outsource those activities. However, there may be some work or activities which are only temporary nature or only incidental to the core activities and the establsihment may not find it feasible to have permanent staff to undertake such work and such jobs are assined to a contarctor who undertakes to execute them by hiring contarct labour. Trust the matter is clear now.
B.Saikumar
Mumbai
2nd June 2012 From India, Mumbai
Hello,

Employees on company rolls are company employees.

Employees engaged through a Contractor are Contractor's Employees.

The subject is governed by Contract Labour (Regulation and Abolition) Act.

Kindly check this out to get your answers and if you yet have specific query, kindly do not hesitate to raise the same.

For the time being suffice it to say that this form offers two specific advantages:

1) Your wage cost is controlled as you do not have to pay anything more than the statutory Minimum Wage as applicable at any given point of time, and

2) You have flexibility to adjust your manpower to your business situation and not constrained by the Industrial Disputes Act 1947.

Disagreeing with some viewpoints, I state that you are free to engage contract labour even in direct production activities. The precautions you must take are:

1) Steer clear Sec. 10 of the said act which CAN prohibit your engaging contract labour under certain condition and after following a stipulated procedure.

2) Be absolutely compliant with labour law requirements.

Further, your engaging labour through contractor must not ever be sham or dishonest as a subterfuge to avoid engaging own labour. There are many more things that need to said on this topic but for the time being this response should suffice!

Regards

samvedan

June 3, 2012


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3rd June 2012 From India, Pune
Hi
Good morning to all
Could anyone please tell me what's the general tenure, which would adopt by the company, of transforming off-rolls employees to on-rolls employees.
Regards
Harminder Singh
4th June 2012 From India, New Delhi
Dear Prasad ,
It is simple usually the on-roll employees are Permanent employees and off- roll employees are contract employees , they will be engagged by the contractor who will have direct controll on them. This practise is followed by many of small / medium industries. Some times the nature of work will be of seasonal one they will not be having the enough work through out the year ex. soft drinks will have great demand only in summer , but in winter and rainy sales is low . so in such a case the employer will hire the cotract workers in the peak season and in unseason there will be no work hence no contract. IF all the employees were on roll then the employer has to pay the wages and other benefits for them eventhough there is no work, no production. Hence they follow this system.
In some small organisation the employer will have on roll employees below 20 only in order to get exempt from PF AND remaining will be off - roll ie - contract employees
Regards
Kumar
4th June 2012 From India, Bangalore
Hello,
If we are talking about a factory situation and PF/ESI are applicable to the factory, you will be required to extend these coverage to contractual employees also because under the factories act the definition of "worker" contractual employee are included. You have to do this if the "contractor" does not have independent registration/code numbers under these acts!
But if the "contractor" is independently covered under these acts, then in the first he is obliged under the act to extend coverage. You as a "principal employer" will have to ensure such a coverage-even if the labor/employees provided by the contractor are not your employees.
Trust the matter is clear and your query is answered.
Regards
samvedan
June 4, 2012

------------

4th June 2012 From India, Pune
Thanks Sir for your clarification.
Our company is an IT company comes under Shop & Establishment Act. The main issue is that we have a pantry boy on third party payroll. He does not want PF, ESI deductions as he want more inhand salary. Can we hire him off roll & pay his salary directly in the form of cash with out any deduction. Would it be legally right? Waiting for your valuable response.
Thanks & regards,
Arti
4th June 2012 From India, Delhi
Hi Could anyone please tell me what’s the general tenure, which would adopt by the company, of transforming off-rolls employees to on-rolls employees. Regards Harminder Singh
4th June 2012 From India, New Delhi
Hi,
on roll employees belongs to company, while off rolls employees belong to contractor only as they are managed by contractor, all employees may do same work, but their responsibilities are diversified for the company.
4th June 2012 From India, Delhi
If a company wants to outsource it's core activities in manufacturing to a contractor, is there any procedure under law to steer clear of Sec.10 of the Contrcat labour Act?
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law advisor
Mumbai
4th June 2012 From India, Mumbai
Dear All,
Please suggest me if we appoint any employee on contract bases for 03 months (Temporary Appointment) and consolidate salary, then we will deduct his PF or he will be exempted.Whether his consolidate above 6500 or below 6500 both cases.
Regards,
Harinder Singh
4th June 2012 From India, Bangalore
Hello,

My position remains-in the sense that if PF/ESI is applicable to your company you will be held responsible for due compliance of your own employees and those of the contractor. If I remember correctly both the acts will be applicable to you. If you have any doubts, let me know the maximum number of employees you employed on any single day in previous twelve months and I will revert. But assuming these acts are applicable, you have no escape but you should know the following points:

1) You cannot contract out of law. If the employee in question, whether on your rolls or on your contractor's rolls, he will have to be covered under PF if his Basic+DA is less than Rs. 6500/- as of now. This limit is raised by the government from time to time!

2) In case of ESI, employees have to be covered upto a GROSS monthly salary/wage of Rs. 15000/- again as of now!

It is best that you take professional help as regards applicability of various labor legislation and compliance under each of them!

If I can help, I will be glad to but I operate out of Pune! For any other help, you are welcome-thanks to citeHR!!!

Regards

samvedan

June 4, 2012


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4th June 2012 From India, Pune
Hello,

If I have understood your query correctly, permit me to say this.

1) If you desire to convert your off roll employees to on rolls, you certainly can do so without much hassle! But this would be a very important decision in as much as:

a) You would be loose flexibility of reducing your manpower to suit business situation.

b) You may have to enhance of such employees to avoid unfair comparison and attendant problems in employee relations.

c) If you do it on a large scale, you may not be able to avoid "seniority" aspirations of current off roll employees to become on roll employees.

Subject to the above cautions, I recommend that you evolve first a "policy" which you may not announce but use it for yourself to ensure uniformity and fairness in such conversions. Your policy must contain fair and objective yardsticks to judge off roll employees qualifying for on rolls employment.

As to the general tenure for such conversion, let us look at it like this. When we take an employee straight on rolls, we make him go through "training" or "probation" to be able to judge his suitability to the organization in the long run. This is a good thing. If roll employees have spent adequate time with the company enabling the company to reach a rational and objective decision for long term association, then a "nominal" probation period leading to confirmation would be in order! Position and salary to be offered would largely be governed by the company's situation and decision!

Trust you will find your answer here!

Regards

samvedan

June 4, 2012


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4th June 2012 From India, Pune
Hello,

Outsourcing understood as vendorising (getting the work-core or incidental) OUTSIDE the premises, is SAFE if possible as the Contract Labour (R &A Act) does not apply to such a situation at all.

However if the "production" (again core or otherwise) is outsourced (sub contracted) but to be performed within the company premises, then the employee would be vulnerable to the mischief of Sec. 10

To steer clear of impact of the Sec. 10, following issues need to to be taken care of:

1) The contract (whether as "production on contract" or as supplying labour) cannot be sham.

2) This would entail, the employer having virtually NO control over the attendance, conduct, performance, recruitment and discipline of the employees of the contractor. Even nominal supervision often becomes enough to infer "employer-employee relationship" between the company and labour supplied by the contractor.

3) Compliance (ESI, PF, SMW, PPA, Gratuity, LWF, Muster, wage rolls, identity cards etc. have to be impeccable by the contractor-preferably!

4) If the contract labour and copany's own labour perform same work, then their wages have to be identical. This is condition precedent to issuance of labour license to a contractor.

Despite taking such precautionary measure, the vulnerability of the principla employer is NOT eliminated-it is just reduced! In brief the principal employer must not do ANYTHING that may lead someone to infer direct "employer-employee" relationship.

I must also state here in clear terms that the above is NOT a fool proof arrangement to escape the mischief of Sec. 10. It is better to discuss any given situation with bare facts of the matter

Have I been helpful please?

Regards

samvedan

June 4, 2012


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4th June 2012 From India, Pune
Hello,
For "bunti".
I have not understood if your question is addressed to any particular comment in this thread or is a "general" dismay!
In the first case it needs to be more focused and specific and in the other case it perhaps is out of place, as in HR/IR there are very rarely "right" answers. The answers depend upon the situation, the participants in the situation, their objectives, hidden agendas etc.
In the "generality" of the issue, the answers that work are termed as "right answers"!
Would you like to elaborate your question please?
Regards
samvedan
June 4, 2012

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4th June 2012 From India, Pune
Hi Prasad,
What Sri Saikumar says is one side of the truth. The other side is to reduce cost for the company they hire some of them as off-roll. But as I have found out lately, some of the off-roll employees are highly qualified, brilliant have high level of EQ, contribute substantially in their domain areas. Due too their bad luck they are there without being recognized, but being utilized fully by the companies. They also contribute substantially to the growth and development of the organization. I feel for them. They may be aged but are still keeping themselves busy. A sugarcane may be bent but sweet is not reduced, A tamarind may be old, but its taste increase as it ages. This is true of some of the off-roll employees. But they are in most cases underpaid also.
M.J.SUBRAMANYAM, BANGALORE
4th June 2012 From India, Bangalore
Dear All, I want know in manufacturing sector HR Department how to hire labour.. Regards, shashi
5th June 2012 From India, Indore
And also i want know 6 month Manufacturing Experience in HR Domain is sufficient to move to another manufacturing sector...
5th June 2012 From India, Indore
it iis not the length of time you spent in a manufacturing concern that determines your success of moving into another manufacturing company but the learning quotient of your's in the sixth period that is the key for the break through.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law advisor
Mumbai
5th June 2012 From India, Mumbai
In addition to what everybody has said; companies employ contract staff(off-rolls) to do the same jobs on-rolls do in order to cut cost. It is a means of employing cheaper labour.
5th June 2012 From United Kingdom
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