Dear All,
Should notice period be given to an employee for indisciplinary behavior? Despite warnings given, there was no improvement. Issues such as late coming, leaving early, absenteeism, and not responding to calls persist. The appointment letter does not have this clause.
Need help.
Sharmila
From India, Mumbai
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Should notice period be given to an employee for indisciplinary behavior? Despite warnings given, there was no improvement. Issues such as late coming, leaving early, absenteeism, and not responding to calls persist. The appointment letter does not have this clause.
Need help.
Sharmila
From India, Mumbai
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No. If its termination by Company, he / she need not have to serve notice period. You can just inform that he can finish the final formalities and hand over the incharge to the mentioned person.
From India, Madras
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57From India, Madras
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Yes u will have to dear. Has she compleetd her probation period? Its always better to pay the notice period pay, if she has completed her probation period.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Dear Asha,
You are addressing two issues here:
1. Indiscipline
2. Termination due to conditions in the appointment letter
In the case of indiscipline, disciplinary action must be taken, such as issuing a charge sheet and conducting a domestic enquiry before considering termination. In this situation, payment in lieu of notice may be required.
Regarding the second condition, if you wish to terminate services based on the conditions outlined in the appointment letter, notice must be served, or the individual should be paid in lieu of notice.
Thank you,
JS Malik
From India, Delhi
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You are addressing two issues here:
1. Indiscipline
2. Termination due to conditions in the appointment letter
In the case of indiscipline, disciplinary action must be taken, such as issuing a charge sheet and conducting a domestic enquiry before considering termination. In this situation, payment in lieu of notice may be required.
Regarding the second condition, if you wish to terminate services based on the conditions outlined in the appointment letter, notice must be served, or the individual should be paid in lieu of notice.
Thank you,
JS Malik
From India, Delhi
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Dear Malik,
I have a clarification: We had terminated people on grounds of non-performance and provided them with the salary in lieu of the notice period (because whenever someone is terminated on performance-related grounds, they have one day's time to discharge their duties and finish all settlements). I have not come across a "misconduct" related termination.
But in this case, should we pay the notice period amount? The term termination here in this company means the person will not be appearing after the issue of the termination notice. But should we pay the notice period amount to him? The appointment letter states - in a very generic way - "In case of termination by company, salary will be paid in lieu of the notice period."
From India, Madras
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I have a clarification: We had terminated people on grounds of non-performance and provided them with the salary in lieu of the notice period (because whenever someone is terminated on performance-related grounds, they have one day's time to discharge their duties and finish all settlements). I have not come across a "misconduct" related termination.
But in this case, should we pay the notice period amount? The term termination here in this company means the person will not be appearing after the issue of the termination notice. But should we pay the notice period amount to him? The appointment letter states - in a very generic way - "In case of termination by company, salary will be paid in lieu of the notice period."
From India, Madras
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Dear Asha,
On the basis of non-performance, you provide a reference to the conditions outlined in the appointment letter. You mention that the salary will be paid in lieu of notice and bid farewell. However, in this case, you should not make any reference to indiscipline. If an issue of indiscipline arises, the appropriate procedures will need to be followed.
Thank you,
JS Malik
From India, Delhi
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On the basis of non-performance, you provide a reference to the conditions outlined in the appointment letter. You mention that the salary will be paid in lieu of notice and bid farewell. However, in this case, you should not make any reference to indiscipline. If an issue of indiscipline arises, the appropriate procedures will need to be followed.
Thank you,
JS Malik
From India, Delhi
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I dont think you need to pay for notice period on account of 'Misconduct'. Notice period should be paid for only in case of 'Non-Performance'.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Sharmila,
Employment is a contract between an employer and an employee. If either party wishes to terminate the contract, a notice period is required to be paid. Therefore, in this case, you will need to pay the notice period pay. Additionally, the termination letter must mention the clause from the appointment letter that has been breached, leading to the termination.
Regards,
Ajit
From India, Mumbai
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Employment is a contract between an employer and an employee. If either party wishes to terminate the contract, a notice period is required to be paid. Therefore, in this case, you will need to pay the notice period pay. Additionally, the termination letter must mention the clause from the appointment letter that has been breached, leading to the termination.
Regards,
Ajit
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Asha,
The notice period has to be served or paid by the company if certain clauses are mentioned in the appointment order and the employee is terminated. If there is no clause related to the notice period in the appointment letter, the employee can be terminated directly under the Indiscipline Category. This termination should include details of the date of warning given and any attached proofs.
Regards,
R. Palanivel Kumar
+91 99942 75566
From India, Coimbatore
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The notice period has to be served or paid by the company if certain clauses are mentioned in the appointment order and the employee is terminated. If there is no clause related to the notice period in the appointment letter, the employee can be terminated directly under the Indiscipline Category. This termination should include details of the date of warning given and any attached proofs.
Regards,
R. Palanivel Kumar
+91 99942 75566
From India, Coimbatore
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In my view, there is no notice period for indiscipline; only disciplinary action can be taken, such as punishment or salary cuts. However, if there is a need to terminate the employee due to indiscipline, then notice can be given as per the appointment terms and conditions. - Shiv
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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I personally agree with Mr. Mallik’s opinion that if there is indiscipline, then the procedure for the same has to be followed.
From India, Gurgaon
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From India, Gurgaon
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Dear all,
I would like to intervene in this for more clarification regarding the benefits of fresh HR professionals. For a regular or permanent employee to be terminated on the grounds of reasons expressed by Ms. Sharmila as follows: "indisciplinary behavior. Despite warnings given, there was no improvement. Late coming, leaving early, absenteeism, no response to calls, etc." These indisciplines need to be proved before the termination of services because termination without following proper disciplinary action proceedings is illegal. This point is being addressed by Mr. Malikjs, and this is the only truth. If you have something beyond this, it can be treated as follows:
1. Termination after Disciplinary Action - No Notice Required
2. Termination due to non-performance or redundancies - Notice Required
3. Termination During Probation Period - No Notice Required
Best regards.
From Saudi Arabia
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I would like to intervene in this for more clarification regarding the benefits of fresh HR professionals. For a regular or permanent employee to be terminated on the grounds of reasons expressed by Ms. Sharmila as follows: "indisciplinary behavior. Despite warnings given, there was no improvement. Late coming, leaving early, absenteeism, no response to calls, etc." These indisciplines need to be proved before the termination of services because termination without following proper disciplinary action proceedings is illegal. This point is being addressed by Mr. Malikjs, and this is the only truth. If you have something beyond this, it can be treated as follows:
1. Termination after Disciplinary Action - No Notice Required
2. Termination due to non-performance or redundancies - Notice Required
3. Termination During Probation Period - No Notice Required
Best regards.
From Saudi Arabia
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Thank you all, especially Mr. Badlu and Mr. Malik.
At these times when the HR department is becoming downsized, the juniors who remain in the group have to decide on all these delicate issues. I am happy that CiteHR is helping a lot of young HR professionals.
From India, Madras
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At these times when the HR department is becoming downsized, the juniors who remain in the group have to decide on all these delicate issues. I am happy that CiteHR is helping a lot of young HR professionals.
From India, Madras
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Are you taking any disciplinary action against him/her? If so, you should have the evidence on paper. In case you are not taking any action against him/her, he/she has the right to go to conciliation (Labour Council). You should have evidence of the above misconduct but need not pay the notice period amount.
Regards,
thiru
From India, Madras
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Regards,
thiru
From India, Madras
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Dear Sharmila,
When it comes to dealing with indiscipline, we believe that issuing verbal and written warnings in the initial stage is crucial. If there is no improvement in behavior or conduct despite this, the policy of termination may need to be implemented. We should also refer to the HR Manual and the company guidelines for further steps.
However, there should not be a notice period after issuing a warning to an employee. I would like to request members of citehr to provide feedback and comments on my point.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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When it comes to dealing with indiscipline, we believe that issuing verbal and written warnings in the initial stage is crucial. If there is no improvement in behavior or conduct despite this, the policy of termination may need to be implemented. We should also refer to the HR Manual and the company guidelines for further steps.
However, there should not be a notice period after issuing a warning to an employee. I would like to request members of citehr to provide feedback and comments on my point.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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Hi, At the time termination on the grounds of non-performance also, we perceive notice period is required which would be as per terms stated in the appointment letter. Regards, Rachna
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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I feel before terminating or discharging an employee for 'misconduct' or 'non-performance,' appropriate opportunity and a hearing must be given to the worker under the ID Act. If the worker is found guilty in the whole process, only then can you proceed with further action. It is better to consult the law section before taking any action.
Regards,
Harminder
From India, Raurkela
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Regards,
Harminder
From India, Raurkela
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Hi Sharmila,
If an employee is not responding to your call or not giving any explanation to the domestic enquiry team, the employer can terminate him/her without a notice period. Paying the notice period salary is also not necessary. Before taking action, send him/her an explanation letter and ask him/her to submit it within 24 hours. If failed or the explanation is not satisfactory, you can take immediate action.
Ajay Padnekar
email: ajaypadnekar@rediffmail.com
From India, Bangalore
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If an employee is not responding to your call or not giving any explanation to the domestic enquiry team, the employer can terminate him/her without a notice period. Paying the notice period salary is also not necessary. Before taking action, send him/her an explanation letter and ask him/her to submit it within 24 hours. If failed or the explanation is not satisfactory, you can take immediate action.
Ajay Padnekar
email: ajaypadnekar@rediffmail.com
From India, Bangalore
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I request all members, please do not comment with only half knowledge. Until you are sure of what you mean and what the law is regarding such actions, please do not misguide our fraternity.
Try to follow the expertise of Mr. Malikjs and Mr. BadluSir. They are real experts. Read their comments carefully; they speak very clearly, and you will find accurate answers if you pay proper attention.
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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Try to follow the expertise of Mr. Malikjs and Mr. BadluSir. They are real experts. Read their comments carefully; they speak very clearly, and you will find accurate answers if you pay proper attention.
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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Hi,
Non – performance and misconduct are completely two different terms.
Meaning of misconduct-
1 .Behavior not conforming to prevailing standards or laws; impropriety.
2. The act or an instance of adultery.
* No notice period will be given so the payment of notice payment will not be there. Its full and final settlement. From the movement of issue of termination he even should not be in the premises also.
Meaning of non – performance-
Failure to act with the prudence that a reasonable person would exercise under the same circumstances.
* There can be notice period. And the payment also will be there. Non performance is one an offence.
Go through your company policies too.
Aparna Sethi
From India, Salai
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Non – performance and misconduct are completely two different terms.
Meaning of misconduct-
1 .Behavior not conforming to prevailing standards or laws; impropriety.
2. The act or an instance of adultery.
* No notice period will be given so the payment of notice payment will not be there. Its full and final settlement. From the movement of issue of termination he even should not be in the premises also.
Meaning of non – performance-
Failure to act with the prudence that a reasonable person would exercise under the same circumstances.
* There can be notice period. And the payment also will be there. Non performance is one an offence.
Go through your company policies too.
Aparna Sethi
From India, Salai
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Acts of late coming, absenteeism, and insubordination constitute indiscipline. I agree with Mr. Malik that you must serve a charge sheet to that employee, and if his/her reply is unsatisfactory, then hold a fair inquiry. The principle of natural justice demands that nobody should be punished without being provided the opportunity to offer his/her defense. If the employee is proven guilty in a domestic inquiry, then the employer has the right to dismiss that employee. In this case, no notice pay will be paid, and even gratuity can be forfeited. In other cases, decisions should be taken according to the terms/conditions of the contract/appointment letter.
Regards,
Ch. Abdul Rehman
From Pakistan, Lahore
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Regards,
Ch. Abdul Rehman
From Pakistan, Lahore
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Dear Manu,
You have to pay the notice period on termination or follow the enquiry proceedings. In case of non-performance, you will proceed as per the terms and conditions of the appointment letter, and I don't think your appointment letter states any condition to leave without a notice period from both sides (employee/employer). For a safer side in any situation, consider paying one month's salary.
Thank you.
From India
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You have to pay the notice period on termination or follow the enquiry proceedings. In case of non-performance, you will proceed as per the terms and conditions of the appointment letter, and I don't think your appointment letter states any condition to leave without a notice period from both sides (employee/employer). For a safer side in any situation, consider paying one month's salary.
Thank you.
From India
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That is what I had tried to point out in my last quote, that equal opportunity also had to be given to the employee before terminating. It is advisable to seek legal advice from your own law section before terminating.
Regards,
Harminder
From India, Raurkela
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Regards,
Harminder
From India, Raurkela
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Dear friend,
Your question and doubt are not clear. You have to follow the draft Standing Orders of Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Act. If you do not have company-certified standing orders and their related clauses available, such as charge sheet, domestic enquiry, proving misconducts under standing orders, and taking action as per the gravity of misconduct, this applies only in the case of a workman. If the individual is an employee not falling under the definition of a workman, you have to refer to the appointment letter or company service rules. If you do not have company service rules and the same misconduct is not mentioned in the appointment letter, it is advisable to settle their account by providing one month's pay in lieu of notice if the probation period has been completed and their services have been confirmed by the company. If the individual is in probation, they can be terminated without notice and payment in lieu of notice. Only their salary as of the termination date will be provided. If you disturb the employees or staff by highlighting their mistakes and lodging complaints, your company's reputation will be tarnished. This is a matter of common sense rather than legal implications.
Good time.
Aln.
Hyderabad.
From India, Madras
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Your question and doubt are not clear. You have to follow the draft Standing Orders of Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Act. If you do not have company-certified standing orders and their related clauses available, such as charge sheet, domestic enquiry, proving misconducts under standing orders, and taking action as per the gravity of misconduct, this applies only in the case of a workman. If the individual is an employee not falling under the definition of a workman, you have to refer to the appointment letter or company service rules. If you do not have company service rules and the same misconduct is not mentioned in the appointment letter, it is advisable to settle their account by providing one month's pay in lieu of notice if the probation period has been completed and their services have been confirmed by the company. If the individual is in probation, they can be terminated without notice and payment in lieu of notice. Only their salary as of the termination date will be provided. If you disturb the employees or staff by highlighting their mistakes and lodging complaints, your company's reputation will be tarnished. This is a matter of common sense rather than legal implications.
Good time.
Aln.
Hyderabad.
From India, Madras
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Hi,
The person shouldn't get any notice period or should be paid for it, as this is a clear case of ignorance and indiscipline. There should be termination. A person like this in an organization can be a threat to others as well. You have already taken enough disciplinary action against him; you said he has received letters, warnings. Then what now?
From India, Bangalore
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The person shouldn't get any notice period or should be paid for it, as this is a clear case of ignorance and indiscipline. There should be termination. A person like this in an organization can be a threat to others as well. You have already taken enough disciplinary action against him; you said he has received letters, warnings. Then what now?
From India, Bangalore
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