After two months of joining, my director verbally asked me to find another job. During the probation period, is it justified to terminate without any special reasons? There is a clause in my appointment letter that states, "In case of misbehavior or untrue personal information, I can be terminated without notice or compensation." They have not given me any letter in this regard. Can I take up this matter in the labor court?
Regards,
Hemant
From India, Faridabad
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Regards,
Hemant
From India, Faridabad
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Kindly refer to your probationary clause. If it states that your agreement can be terminated without giving any reason, then the employer has the right to do so. Please note that you are not a permanent employee while you are under probation.
Thanks
Regards
From India, Bangalore
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2Thanks
Regards
From India, Bangalore
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There is always some reason behind anything that happens, except for natural phenomena. An employer can terminate you, but knowing the reason is your right. If you know the reasons for your termination, you can then decide whether to react or not. I am sure that if you ask for the reason for your termination, your boss will not refuse to do so.
Thanks,
Bijay
From India, Vadodara
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Thanks,
Bijay
From India, Vadodara
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During probation, employment can be terminated without giving any reason and without notice. In some cases, the appointment letter or offer letter may state some period of notice, but generally, this is small.
Your director has verbally told you to find another job. I assume he does not find your work satisfactory. He is giving you a chance to find another job and resign rather than be terminated. Termination generally carries a negative impact on your CV.
Whether a person can be terminated without reason depends, in reality, on the size of the organization. In smaller organizations and proprietary or private limited companies, you are actually working at the will of the owner, and if he does not want you, you have to leave. If he has to provide a reason, he can give any, and you have no way out.
If you are in a larger organization that has rules set out and a system of natural justice and procedure for appeals, then it's a different matter. But in probation, most of this does not apply.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Your director has verbally told you to find another job. I assume he does not find your work satisfactory. He is giving you a chance to find another job and resign rather than be terminated. Termination generally carries a negative impact on your CV.
Whether a person can be terminated without reason depends, in reality, on the size of the organization. In smaller organizations and proprietary or private limited companies, you are actually working at the will of the owner, and if he does not want you, you have to leave. If he has to provide a reason, he can give any, and you have no way out.
If you are in a larger organization that has rules set out and a system of natural justice and procedure for appeals, then it's a different matter. But in probation, most of this does not apply.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Understanding Probation and Notice Periods
Probation is a term used to assess your skills to determine their suitability for the assigned work. Normally, during probation, the notice period is limited to a fortnight or one month, as mutually agreed upon under the terms and conditions of employment. Hence, a communication to an employee to leave the job can be considered as notice in the first instance. With this oral communication, you have been given time to search for and leave the job.
You should take this in a positive light and start looking for another job. First, express your intent to search for a job and then approach your boss for feedback and advice on how to improve your performance. It's important to understand your boss well and to perform the job under his guidance.
From India, Hyderabad
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Probation is a term used to assess your skills to determine their suitability for the assigned work. Normally, during probation, the notice period is limited to a fortnight or one month, as mutually agreed upon under the terms and conditions of employment. Hence, a communication to an employee to leave the job can be considered as notice in the first instance. With this oral communication, you have been given time to search for and leave the job.
You should take this in a positive light and start looking for another job. First, express your intent to search for a job and then approach your boss for feedback and advice on how to improve your performance. It's important to understand your boss well and to perform the job under his guidance.
From India, Hyderabad
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We can understand your problem. Definitely, it is an unjustified termination without notice and cause. You should ask your HR Department in writing to provide the notice and cause of termination. Then, you can seek advice from an advocate on this matter to bring it to the labor court.
Regards,
Saroj
From India, Mumbai
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Regards,
Saroj
From India, Mumbai
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You do have a right to know the reason for your termination, but consider this: once your Director has decided, he or she can always provide or create any reason to be quoted, so it may not be helpful unless you are certain you will receive an honest response, which I doubt. If you choose to address this, your approach should be to seek understanding of your shortcomings rather than to contest the decision. This will allow you to make improvements that can benefit you in the future. My advice is to focus on your future rather than expending energy on investigating this, as the outcome may not be very fruitful.
From India
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From India
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Most companies have a probation period notice of 7 days. The Director may have determined that you are not suitable for the organization, which is why he advised you to seek employment elsewhere. They likely want to avoid issuing a termination letter to prevent affecting your career negatively. Take this positively and start looking for a new job as soon as possible.
I don't recommend going to the labor court, as it would require a significant amount of your time. You would need to attend hearings for a relatively small amount of compensation. It would be better to write to your company requesting the 7 days' salary or whatever notice period is specified for probationary employees.
If your contract includes a clause that allows termination without notice during probation, then pursuing compensation or going to the labor court may not be beneficial.
From India, Mumbai
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I don't recommend going to the labor court, as it would require a significant amount of your time. You would need to attend hearings for a relatively small amount of compensation. It would be better to write to your company requesting the 7 days' salary or whatever notice period is specified for probationary employees.
If your contract includes a clause that allows termination without notice during probation, then pursuing compensation or going to the labor court may not be beneficial.
From India, Mumbai
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Point One: You yourself realize what is wrong.
Point Two: The clause mentioned has no value; it is not on stamp paper and not signed by two parties at the same point with elaboration of the details. It is arbitrary, and since such things are not discussed during hiring, it has no legal value (those are mere bindings on the one standing at the receiving end). One does not leave a job and join another just to get nailed.
Point Three: A verbal warning is just an abuse nowadays, especially in corporates bound by social responsibilities. They can't hire and fire at will. I should not write, but I am simply frustrated by such actions. How can they harass a person at their whim who can be a breadwinner for more than one? Approach your HR Department (but make sure you stand on substantial grounds). Treating people like cattle is not permissible at any cost.
Hemant, why don't you put this in writing, like:
Dear ...,
Regarding the verbal warning on ... issue, I will make sure to uplift my work standards as per your requirements & wishes.
Thanks,
Hemant (next time it happens, make sure to CC your management)
Point Four: Ethically, they should mention what you are lacking...
Give time to redo things...
If they do not... (leave such a company that does not listen, react, and act before they fire you).
I personally feel probation is a useless burden on newcomers; before today, I never saw any company taking action (apart from severe financial, sexual harassment).
My point is if I ask for training costing much, then it is okay for the company to ask for a bond, and if I fail, then ask for damages. But in this case, one gets an offer letter, leaves the present job, joins another, and on the joining date, he is asked to sign something so useless, and that too at a time when he is not in a position to negotiate.
Hemant, I do not want you to have a fight (literally). See, if you are not fit for this job, I assure you are not fit for any job (hope you are getting me). The labor court will kill your chances to work in the organization and elsewhere (Whistleblower is a myth).
My remarks are based on the facts mentioned by Hemant in his query, and I might be wrong if he is hiding something.
Hemant, are you sure you do not indulge in any underwater activities?
From India, Gurgaon
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Point Two: The clause mentioned has no value; it is not on stamp paper and not signed by two parties at the same point with elaboration of the details. It is arbitrary, and since such things are not discussed during hiring, it has no legal value (those are mere bindings on the one standing at the receiving end). One does not leave a job and join another just to get nailed.
Point Three: A verbal warning is just an abuse nowadays, especially in corporates bound by social responsibilities. They can't hire and fire at will. I should not write, but I am simply frustrated by such actions. How can they harass a person at their whim who can be a breadwinner for more than one? Approach your HR Department (but make sure you stand on substantial grounds). Treating people like cattle is not permissible at any cost.
Hemant, why don't you put this in writing, like:
Dear ...,
Regarding the verbal warning on ... issue, I will make sure to uplift my work standards as per your requirements & wishes.
Thanks,
Hemant (next time it happens, make sure to CC your management)
Point Four: Ethically, they should mention what you are lacking...
Give time to redo things...
If they do not... (leave such a company that does not listen, react, and act before they fire you).
I personally feel probation is a useless burden on newcomers; before today, I never saw any company taking action (apart from severe financial, sexual harassment).
My point is if I ask for training costing much, then it is okay for the company to ask for a bond, and if I fail, then ask for damages. But in this case, one gets an offer letter, leaves the present job, joins another, and on the joining date, he is asked to sign something so useless, and that too at a time when he is not in a position to negotiate.
Hemant, I do not want you to have a fight (literally). See, if you are not fit for this job, I assure you are not fit for any job (hope you are getting me). The labor court will kill your chances to work in the organization and elsewhere (Whistleblower is a myth).
My remarks are based on the facts mentioned by Hemant in his query, and I might be wrong if he is hiding something.
Hemant, are you sure you do not indulge in any underwater activities?
From India, Gurgaon
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I am not sure if this response will be well-received, as it may invite criticism from the members. Frankly, Hemant seems to believe that resorting to legal action is the ultimate solution for any issue, without considering other possible avenues to resolve the matter. It appears to be a kind of 'panacea' for all problems.
What is more surprising is the encouragement from some members pushing him towards legal action without having detailed knowledge of the situation. Hemant has not provided reasons for being asked to seek alternative employment. No member has sought this information before suggesting legal action. Shouldn't guiding and advising someone include understanding the full situation? What if Hemant follows the advice to go legal without crucial details and ends up in a worse situation? Will those members take responsibility then?
Another point, as highlighted by a member, is that being asked to look for another job does not necessarily imply clear termination, let alone unilateral termination. Hemant's assumption, possibly due to a lack of legal knowledge, is that he is being terminated.
Additionally, nothing has been provided to Hemant in writing. This could be a strategic move to allow him to resign when he secures another job, thus aiding him in maintaining a clean career record.
It is important to note that this is not a defense of the Director/Company. Every member should ensure they have all the facts before offering advice or suggestions to help those seeking assistance make well-informed decisions. If details are lacking, they should be requested.
Guidance for Hemant
Regarding Hemant's situation, he should clarify the reasons behind the Director's stance. If he hasn't inquired, he should do so, as it may relate to a fundamental issue with him that can be rectified. Failing to address this could lead to carrying over the same mistakes to future roles and forming a skewed perception of all Directors. CiteHR aims to focus on not just the present but also the future of those seeking advice.
If this response seems heavy, that was not the intention.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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What is more surprising is the encouragement from some members pushing him towards legal action without having detailed knowledge of the situation. Hemant has not provided reasons for being asked to seek alternative employment. No member has sought this information before suggesting legal action. Shouldn't guiding and advising someone include understanding the full situation? What if Hemant follows the advice to go legal without crucial details and ends up in a worse situation? Will those members take responsibility then?
Another point, as highlighted by a member, is that being asked to look for another job does not necessarily imply clear termination, let alone unilateral termination. Hemant's assumption, possibly due to a lack of legal knowledge, is that he is being terminated.
Additionally, nothing has been provided to Hemant in writing. This could be a strategic move to allow him to resign when he secures another job, thus aiding him in maintaining a clean career record.
It is important to note that this is not a defense of the Director/Company. Every member should ensure they have all the facts before offering advice or suggestions to help those seeking assistance make well-informed decisions. If details are lacking, they should be requested.
Guidance for Hemant
Regarding Hemant's situation, he should clarify the reasons behind the Director's stance. If he hasn't inquired, he should do so, as it may relate to a fundamental issue with him that can be rectified. Failing to address this could lead to carrying over the same mistakes to future roles and forming a skewed perception of all Directors. CiteHR aims to focus on not just the present but also the future of those seeking advice.
If this response seems heavy, that was not the intention.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I agree with TS. Rightly pointed out, Hemant has not mentioned the reason for his so-called termination. Secondly, the word "termination" can be used only when such intimation has been given to you in writing, wherein you can prove that you've been terminated. Here, the employer has instead given you the opportunity to resign (maybe forcefully or otherwise) by your own self, which means that he would want to end the relationship mutually.
It is a little above our understanding that when the employer asked you verbally to leave the company, you did not demand the reason. Nonetheless, if you are looking at it positively, you can still ask him the reason for your improvement.
With respect to your notice pay, you have the right to claim only if you have not indulged yourself in any of the mentioned clauses. Breaching those terms will give your employer all the right to retain notice pay. But for this, you must be able to prove your point with all supporting evidence.
As mentioned by some seniors, it is not advisable to directly go to the labor court. You can seek guidance from a lawyer if required. But first, speak to your employer and clarify things.
Regards,
Hiral
From India, Ahmedabad
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It is a little above our understanding that when the employer asked you verbally to leave the company, you did not demand the reason. Nonetheless, if you are looking at it positively, you can still ask him the reason for your improvement.
With respect to your notice pay, you have the right to claim only if you have not indulged yourself in any of the mentioned clauses. Breaching those terms will give your employer all the right to retain notice pay. But for this, you must be able to prove your point with all supporting evidence.
As mentioned by some seniors, it is not advisable to directly go to the labor court. You can seek guidance from a lawyer if required. But first, speak to your employer and clarify things.
Regards,
Hiral
From India, Ahmedabad
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Question on Justified Termination During Probation
Dr. Saroj, since when did it become compulsory to have "justified termination" during probation? Do you really want this individual to receive a termination letter? It will be documented in his service record, and if he moves to another company, during background verification, it will be disclosed that he was terminated due to poor performance (or any other reasons provided). What will the advocate do if the company does not wish to retain him?
From India, Mumbai
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Dr. Saroj, since when did it become compulsory to have "justified termination" during probation? Do you really want this individual to receive a termination letter? It will be documented in his service record, and if he moves to another company, during background verification, it will be disclosed that he was terminated due to poor performance (or any other reasons provided). What will the advocate do if the company does not wish to retain him?
From India, Mumbai
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I don't understand some of the things you wrote.
Verbal Warning and Abuse
How can a verbal warning be considered abuse? The director has asked him to find another job. How does that amount to abuse?
Social Responsibility and Employment
Where does social responsibility come in? What makes you think the company is socially responsible to continue to provide employment to someone who does not fit in or is not working properly? If the person wants to be the breadwinner, then he must ensure he is working the way the company wants and in a manner that enables the company to profit from his work. Except in a PSU, no business will carry costs that are not justified.
Training Costs and Bond
Where did the point of training cost and bond come in? He is not being held back and asked to complete a bond or pay for it!
Probation Period
Probation may be inconvenient for new joiners, but it is definitely a required part of hiring. During an interview, a person may say many things, but they may not actually be capable of doing those things. People often bluff in an interview about their experience and expertise. Probation is a period during which the evaluation of the person's actual performance is done.
From India, Mumbai
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Verbal Warning and Abuse
How can a verbal warning be considered abuse? The director has asked him to find another job. How does that amount to abuse?
Social Responsibility and Employment
Where does social responsibility come in? What makes you think the company is socially responsible to continue to provide employment to someone who does not fit in or is not working properly? If the person wants to be the breadwinner, then he must ensure he is working the way the company wants and in a manner that enables the company to profit from his work. Except in a PSU, no business will carry costs that are not justified.
Training Costs and Bond
Where did the point of training cost and bond come in? He is not being held back and asked to complete a bond or pay for it!
Probation Period
Probation may be inconvenient for new joiners, but it is definitely a required part of hiring. During an interview, a person may say many things, but they may not actually be capable of doing those things. People often bluff in an interview about their experience and expertise. Probation is a period during which the evaluation of the person's actual performance is done.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Hament, after reading all suggestions, i would like to suggest you only one thing that is just do your job with improvement in your performance, and try to search another job also
From India, Coimbatore
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From India, Coimbatore
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I do not mean to offend you, but can we play a game? This game involves a question, and then one has to answer. If the answer is YES, the game will end, and there is no need to waste any time further.
1) Do you really like to be bullied and do the same to your juniors "verbally"?
If yes, game over. You won.
2) Do you read a (any) letter from the middle and ignore the subject, heading?
If yes, game over. You won.
3) Do you act as a management person and have no feeling for the employee?
If yes, game over. You won.
4) Do you jump to a conclusion without reading properly?
If yes, game over. You won.
See, you win again and again... such a champ...
================================================== ===
Now, this is for losers or should I say any Human Being (later we talk about Human Resources)
1) As an "HR professional," I hate unethical practices, including verbal warnings, harassment, abuse, and threatening... For you, it can be day-to-day business, but not for HR Managers, and thankfully not for me.
2) I can bet Rs 1000 you did not read even the subject, only mentioning again "Termination without reason."
3) "Given a chance to find out a new job" and so on... (What are we talking about?) Why can't this director give him a reason and fire him? Hemant can improve and do good in the future elsewhere.
4) I specifically mention an example of BOND (Example, just an example).
And also mentioned:
************************************************** *************************************************
"My remarks are based on the facts mentioned by Hemant in his query, and I might be wrong if he is hiding something.
Hemant, are you sure you do not indulge in some under-the-water thing?"
************************************************** **************************************************
I trust you did not read the above.
This platform is to help those who need help, and one is free to comment. You do not like me, and I can also hate you, but surely not on this platform.
Like I said, I did not mean to offend you...
From India, Gurgaon
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1) Do you really like to be bullied and do the same to your juniors "verbally"?
If yes, game over. You won.
2) Do you read a (any) letter from the middle and ignore the subject, heading?
If yes, game over. You won.
3) Do you act as a management person and have no feeling for the employee?
If yes, game over. You won.
4) Do you jump to a conclusion without reading properly?
If yes, game over. You won.
See, you win again and again... such a champ...
================================================== ===
Now, this is for losers or should I say any Human Being (later we talk about Human Resources)
1) As an "HR professional," I hate unethical practices, including verbal warnings, harassment, abuse, and threatening... For you, it can be day-to-day business, but not for HR Managers, and thankfully not for me.
2) I can bet Rs 1000 you did not read even the subject, only mentioning again "Termination without reason."
3) "Given a chance to find out a new job" and so on... (What are we talking about?) Why can't this director give him a reason and fire him? Hemant can improve and do good in the future elsewhere.
4) I specifically mention an example of BOND (Example, just an example).
And also mentioned:
************************************************** *************************************************
"My remarks are based on the facts mentioned by Hemant in his query, and I might be wrong if he is hiding something.
Hemant, are you sure you do not indulge in some under-the-water thing?"
************************************************** **************************************************
I trust you did not read the above.
This platform is to help those who need help, and one is free to comment. You do not like me, and I can also hate you, but surely not on this platform.
Like I said, I did not mean to offend you...
From India, Gurgaon
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It is not possible to terminate anyone from the organization without any appropriate reason. It may be that if your boss is not satisfied with your work and your nature, he may make a small issue so significant that the result may be your termination.
Be aware in the future and maintain a positive attitude towards your job.
Thank you.
Regards
From India, Faridabad
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Be aware in the future and maintain a positive attitude towards your job.
Thank you.
Regards
From India, Faridabad
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Legal Clarification on Severance Dues & Probation Period.PDF