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Satish Parimal
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Thread Started by #ra7881

Dear Members,
We are a less than 2 years old manufacturing company in tamilnadu employing about 40 people (22 workmen). We would like to terminate a workmen because he has been absenting himself for 6 days in a row without prior permission from the company or any intimation to his supervisor. This is a gross misconduct and would like to know if i can proceed with termination due to discplinary misconduct. Please advise.
7th November 2011 From India, Madras
Dear Friend,
I think, as a HR, first of all pls. try to understand the problem of employee, if he have any critical problem then, in that case, termination will not be a solution for his absenteesm. If he is habitual absent from duty, then think for necessary action.

7th November 2011 From United States
You will first need to call the employee and have a personal discussion with him to find out the reason for his absenteeism. You could ask him to "show cause" as to why he has been regularly failing to report to work. In the absence of a reasonable/ valid response from him, the next ideal step would be issue a warning letter asking him to be regular; failing which you will be forced to take necessary disciplinary action, including termination.
If the absenteeism still continues, you may proceed with the termination.
7th November 2011 From India, Bangalore
Many organisations face the problem of absentee employees. You can issue a show cause notice clearly stating the dates of absence the no of days of absence since his date of absence and the occasions ( as per model standing orders) then charge him with clause 24(f)habitual absence.....(full clause) Pls ensure that this show cause is issued to both his address on record as well as permanent address, so as to reach him. Thereafter issue charge sheet conduct enquiry and give him opportunity of defence. Pls follow the proper disciplinary procedure
7th November 2011 From India, Pune
Dear All,

Thank you all for your valuable replies. Please find my comments below

Mr.Amit Thakkar-

1. Employee joing Date - September'2010

2. We do not have a standing order yet. Is it necessary to have a standing order for a company that has less than 30 workmen

3. This employee has already been terminated from another company.

Mr.Satish Parimal

I understand what you mean and i too second your opinion that as HR personnel we should also have humanitarian view on certain issues.

But, the case here is, this particular workmen did not inform the company or the supervisor about his leave and took 6 days leave in a row. We have also identified that this person has made his wife participate the local body elections which is the true reason of his absence. But unaware of the fact that the company knows the true reason, he had written a letter stating that due to ill health of his wife he had to take leave. And this isn't true.


Please read my comments above and advise.

Thanks and looking forward to your valuable feedback.
7th November 2011 From India, Madras
As posted above that employee can be terminated by paying all dues do you mean any emplyee can be terminated by paying dues irrespective of his seniority .
8th November 2011 From India, Nagpur
  1. When the employee remained absence from work?
  2. Had you issued Show Cause Notice to him?
  3. Had given written explanation to SCN? or submitted document of ill-health?
  4. IF not submitted had you called for the documents?
  5. If enquiry had been conducted, what its report? If not completed what is status of the enquiry?
  6. Had the employee been allowed to work after his 6 days continuous absence for work?
please answer this questions to give you the suggestions.
8th November 2011 From India, Tiruchchirappalli

Termination is not a solution for all the problems. As you Mentioned in this comment he is terminated from another company, I have a question if a Person is terminated from another company how you people recruit him without the knowing the real reason of his termination in the previous company due to his Misconduct???????? Or due to his Absenteeism???? Or Due to his health issues??? or due to his Personal problems???????? first know why he is terminated, If there is Proper reason like misconduct or anything you can terminate him or else see how critical the employee is for your concern try to give him warning like deduct his salary amount or Terminating him .Without knowing the reason behind you should not decease him out of the job. As you said there is no standing order in your company, First Company should frame the rules of Do's and Don’ts Then only employee will follow the rules. Without having proper implementation how can you terminate Employee????????????

As you asked, Is it necessary to have a standing order for a company that has less than 30 workmen,. According to [section 1(3)]. The Act is applicable to all industrial establishments‘ employing 100 or more workmen.

8th November 2011 From India, Coimbatore
first we have call for explanation through a register post, i want to know what are the clauses included in appointment order for absenteeism . other wise please post a letter to his residential as per the record through register post asking him to join duty immediately, then procedure starts send 3 letters in the interval of 5 days each and then you can issue the termination order with all the above proofs
8th November 2011 From India, Madras
I suggest that you may visit the family of the employee and talk to the members, There are two benefits (i) you will know whether there is any genuine problem; in this case, take a soft approach. (ii) if there is no issue at home front, explain the consequences of termination due to absentism to the family ( loss of income).In this case, the family members will exert pressure / motivate the employee.If the absentism continues, take appropriate action.
The other employees will appreciate your gesture.
8th November 2011 From India, Madras
kindly go through your company policy & Company Standing order. if its clear mention in your policy/ Standing order for termination with such type misconduct;then you can. otherwise you cannot. secondly if have already issue him show cause notice for absent then issue once again strong show cause notice and write in notice that- if you revise such type of absent in future then management is bound to take strong action against you for which you are fully responsible.
8th November 2011 From India, Rudarpur

I just would like to mention for the following important notes from my point of view :

when the mentioned employee joined the company , is there a clear policy of working hours & attendance , if not , you have to do it as soon as possible and let all employees aware of the disciplinary procedures , the same for vacation policy , you should announced it in very clear place so all employees are able to read it .

absenteeism rate is very relative to employees satisfaction rate , so we need to know if this issue was happened before with another employee , or it just happened for the mentioned employee , if it repeated a lot , you have to find a solution for the source of problem , better than dealing with the result

warning letter and apologize letter are very good solution from the law side , you have to clearly specified the reason of warning letter

and your warning letter must include acceptance from the employee prior to putting it his his personnel file , and here , As hr , we need to know his performance , if it was poor or acceptable ,

this procedure is a must , to let all employees in your firm respect the rules ,

now we dealing with 2 issues

First , absence on work without justified reason

Second , submit false declaration about his absence and you have to be sure of that , not merely listen to other speech

Finally, I propose the following :

Warning letter is a must

reasons of warning letter will depend on your answer for the above

you will state in your warning letter , that such action will lead to appropriate disciplinary action , including terminate from service

Hope my points will be useful for you

8th November 2011 From Syrian Arab Republic, Aleppo
You mentioned that the employee has been terminated by his previous employer. Does that not ring a bell?
Something's fishy. He might have been held accountable for something and had to pay the price. You would anyway not want to continue with such an employee. To keep things simple, confront him and request him to put his papers down.
By doing this, your organization is not hampering his career. He can have the experience certificate from you and move on elsewhere.
8th November 2011 From India, Mumbai
Dear all, Rather to terminate please go through the problems of concern employee and solve the same getting 40 employees termination may cause the huge loss to company also. sumit
8th November 2011 From India, Ghaziabad
Hi Amit,
Firstly, I had a torrid time understanding what you have written above.
Secondly, I think we must address each other professionally as this is a professional online forum
Lastly, let me tell you that requesting an employee to resign (and not forcing him to do so) does not invite a problem for the organization.
8th November 2011 From India, Mumbai
Termination is not a final solution. you just try to probe the real cause and then initiate necessary action against him. if it is habitual, issue him a warning letter instructing him to be regular, failing which you take a strict action against his "misconduct".
8th November 2011 From India, Madras
Dear ra7881,
You can not terminated him from job. If he will go to labour office management will bound to take him back. And in this position being a HR person you will be in a humiliation position. You can issued Warning letter/ show cause notice but can't terminated him. As u said in earlier your company don't have any certified standing order so you can refer Model standing order for your reference.
Ratikanta Rath
8th November 2011 From India, Durgapur
For six days absenteeism ,you need to first issue a call letter asking him to report for work ,thereafter if he fails to then you can initiate disciplinary action.
Pls see
8th November 2011 From India, Madras
I think the fact that he has lied about the reason of his leave is enough to initiate action on disciplinary grounds. You will need to issue a show cause notice. Conduct an internal inquiry and then you can terminate him following all the procedure.
However, you need to gather evidence that his wife was not sick buy very much actively campaigning.
9th November 2011 From India, Mumbai
Dear Friend
1. Straight away you can not terminate any employee, if he is in permanent rolls.
2. Even to issue a memo also you need to have minimum 7 days absent without prior intimation.
3. If yiur company doesn't have Standing Orders, then you can follow the Model Standing Orders, and which you need to mention in the Warning letter / Memo / Show Cause Notice.
4. In any case, particularly in Workmen level, you need to build up the FIle.
Hence try to encash such opportunities and start building file by issuing Show Cause Notices / Charge Sheets.
If the case is Chronic then you can use all the documents as Weapons
9th November 2011 From India, Hyderabad
Dear All,
Thank you for your valuable feedback.Please find my comments below.
Dear Mr.Mahesh,
By registered post we have sent letter asking for explanation.
Also, we have specified in the letter saying termination without notice will be considered as disciplinary action and terminated without notice.
Dear Chonds/Mr.Dheeraj,
I accept your suggestion and as you siad we had a personal discussion with the concerned workmen and found to know that he is denying the true reason of his absence unaware that we have the proof.
Dear ommygautam,
We do not have a standing order since we are lees than 50 in strength.
Dear Mr.Tarte,
I agree to your point.
Dear Saswata Bannerjee,
We are sure about the fact he has lied to us and still continue to do. we have evidence as well.
Thank you all for your valuable views. Appreciate your responses. It was of great help.
9th November 2011 From India, Madras
then you have to follow Model Standing order; and as i told you for issuing him notice. pl. issue him notice again and again. after 05 or 06 notice you can take decision for termination.

langauage are -

Dear Mr. X

pl. find the reference of your letter no. A, B, C, & D on dated you are informed for stoping your absent from duty without any information. but till today you do not have any change of your habit for absent. according to this i think you are not intrested to do the work with company and you have no any attachment with the peoduction. so as per your activity managment has decieded to take the stickt action agaist you and you are terminated from -------------( dated). your total amount of Full & Fianl is ---------( amount of f&f) via cheque no.---------------is attached with letter.

thanks & regards,

for ---------- ( Company Name)

Authiorised Signatory

CC to-



Labour Inspector.

( pl. not that all notice which was given to employee is send to Above offices also.)
9th November 2011 From India, Rudarpur
Dear RA778
As being the HR of a company by my self, you must have a company policy in stand which should clear all these things, for e.g in my company's policy i have clearly defined
Absence without Prior Approval
In the event, any employee absents himself/herself from the service beyond 5 working days without any prior approval from the immediate Supervisor; it will be the responsibility of the immediate Supervisor to intimate the HR Department besides the concerned department Head in writing.
The HR Department will send a Letter (Registered AD) at employee’s residence asking him/her to state the reasons of absence and resume services with in a maximum of 5 working.
If the employee does not join with in 5 working days from the receipt of notice, the HR department will initiate the exit procedure by sending a Letter of Abandonment to the concerned employee (Regd. AD). The Separation Note and other steps follow thereafter.
9th November 2011 From India, Delhi
I do agree with few of my friends who have said that termination is not the solution. Being as a H.R person first dig out the history of that employee why is he doing so and what is forcing him to do rather directly checking out ur standing orders and all. As it can be major IR issue if u terminate any employee without mentioned in ur standing orders. Then u have to give warning letters to the employee keeping govt. officials as CC so that it becomes easier to terminate.
Hope it would help u to know how sensitive the matter is , when it comes to termination..................
9th November 2011 From United States, Cambridge
Make attempts to get hold of him prior to hastly taking any decision to terminate his service. Send him a telegram which must read as follows:
According to our records you have been absent from work without authorisation as of _______ to date (Total number of days absent= ). Please note that that you are in breach of your contract of employment and of your duty as an employee to provide your services. This situation is unacceptable.
You are requested to report to work immediately on receipt of this communication, failing which your continued absence will be regarded as desertion and will be dealt with in terms of XYZ Ltd Disciplinary Code. Please note that should you fail to report to work within 24 hours of receipt of this letter, you will be dismissed for desertion and said dismissal will be confirmed in writing.
9th November 2011 From Germany
Hi, I am abirami.MBA graduate . i have 7 yrs work experience in marketing & admin line. so, i want HR related work details.
9th November 2011 From India, Bangalore
Make your bigger and bigger
1. By issuing Show cause notice
2. By issuing warning warning letter keeping the L.O in CC
3. By making a disciplinary comittie
Hope this would help u a lot .
Sandeep Thakur
9th November 2011 From United States, Cambridge
Replies in this thread seem to miss some vital points the original post makes.
1. It's not a question of habitual absence. Its a question of absence without approval and lying as to the reason for absence.
2. The company has less than 50 employees and standing orders (model or certified) does not apply
3. The person has already joined back. Ther is no question of sending a telegram asking him to join in 5 days, etc
What is in question here now, is that whether his lying about his wife's illness is a valid ground for termination. I do not think it is a problem. But ofcourse, I have limited experiance in this matter
9th November 2011 From India, Mumbai
As mentioned by one of our friend that the company is having less than 50 employees and standing orders does not apply. So coming back to it I would like to request my friend to throw more light on it. As I am not sure about this thing .
Sandeep Thakur
10th November 2011 From United States, Cambridge
It appears the information pertaining this matter is rearing its head in fragmentation . It is now alleged that he lied about his wife illness ," what is the real problem , his absence or providing false information to the business".
10th November 2011 From Germany
Hi, can you plz clarify me on the standing order clause of 50 employee , as mentioned above. Regards sandeep thakur
10th November 2011 From United States, Cambridge
This is what the act says :
1. Short title, extent and application.- (1) This act may be called the Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Act, 1946.
(2) It extends to1[the whole of India 2[* * *].]
3[(3) It applies to every industrial establishment wherein one hundred or more workmen are employed, or were employed on any day of the preceding twelve months:
Provided that the appropriate Government may, after giving not less than two months’ notice of its intention so to do, by notification in the Official Gazette, apply the provisions of this Act to any industrial establishment employing such number of number of persons less than one hundred as may be specified in the notification :

So obviously for any factory in India where there are less than 100 employees, the standing orders do not apply by law. You are free to follow it voluntarily, but not one can go to court and force you to follow it. You are free to make your own rules and communicate it to the your employees.

11th November 2011 From India, Mumbai
Though the standing orders apply upon company having 50 or more employees, in case of punitive termination, the procedure normally followed is the same as in that act, as in you have to comply with the rules of natural justice, see past record and then resort to punishment. Therefore my earlier advise is correct. Though he may have been terminated from another co. you have to take independent disciplinary action. so pls follow the steps which I had earlier stated.
11th November 2011 From India, Pune
Dear Mr.

I do not know whether you have actually terminated the worker as on date. However I offer my views on the issue raised by you.

1.You say that your company is employing thirty workmen and therefore the Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Act will not apply. You have not indicated the State in which your establishment is situate. For, the I.E.Act gives power to the State Government to make the provisions of the I.E.S.O.Act applicable to industrial establishments employing less than 100 workmen. So please check whether your State Government has issued any such notification and whether such notification is applicable to your establishment.

2.Assuming that the I.E.S.O. is applicable and also assuming that you have not got certified standing orders then the Model Standing Orders is applicable to you.

3.It is a settled principle of industrial law that a workman can be punished only for a misconduct after following the procedure prescribed by law. Therefore if a workman is dismissed for a conduct which is not a misconduct then the dismissal becomes illegal. In the case cited by you assuming that the I.E.S.O.Act is applicable to your establishment and as stated by you there are no certified standing orders applicalble, then the Model Standing Orders are applicable to the workmen. It has to be seen whether absence for six days continuously is a misconduct under the Model Standing Orders applicable. If it is not, then the absence for six days cannot be regarded as misconduct and the worker cannot be punished for such act. So please check whether under the Model Standing Orders absence of six days or giving false reasons for the absence are misconducts. If not the dismissal if any made would surely be set aside.

4.Assuming that the I.E.S.O.Act is not applicable the scenario will be like this. Again I repeat that it is a settled principle of industrial law that a worker cannot be punished for an act which is not a misconduct. In the case of no standing ordes, you have to check firstly whether the appointment order issued to the worker or any service regulations applicable to the woker about which he had notice and knowledge say that absence for six days or giving false reasons for being absent are misconducts. If it is not so specified then absence for six days or giving falase reasons cannot be valid and legal grounds for initiating disciplianary action to punish the worker.

5.Assuming that you had already dismissed the worker, then if he approaches the Labour Court, the dismissal will certainly be set aside on the ground that the punishment of dismissal is disproportionate to the charge of absence for six days or giving false reasons for being absent.

With regards
14th November 2011 From India, Madras
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