Hi everybody,
Recently, we hired a candidate in our organization (xxxxx) and the date of joining was the very next day. The candidate came the next day but without documents, to which one of the HR Managers at xxxxxx spoke to him very roughly. So, the candidate sent an email which I have copied and pasted below. Please read it completely and tell me whether the manager was correct or the candidate.
Hello (the HR's name),
At the commencement, I would like to show you courtesy for being an incredible HR.
The very next minute I got out of the room after having the telephonic conversation with Mr. Y, the hair-trigger thing I did was, I called my sister and urged her to scan and mail me all my documents for the simple reason that it would save some time, my endurance, and of course, fuel. She did the same without much delay. Please find attached the same.
I would want to candidly say that as a prospective employee, one would look out for an understanding and cooperating HR. I comprehend with Mr. Y that I should have brought my documents along; however, having said that, I would also uninhibitedly say that the verbiage he applied during the telephonic conversation and suggesting that I was making excuses with regards to yesterday's festival which kept me busy was totally unfitting and uncalled for. His belief that "I am not INTERESTED in joining" does not align at all. Nevertheless, I can't convince him otherwise. If he is "DISAPPOINTED" with me, so am I, being the first day of work (even if it is joining formalities first and then the rest of the process would follow) only because of the articulation he used. I don't think hell would have broken loose if I had submitted the documents tomorrow or had mailed them this evening, for, even I have worked in very disciplined organizations and I am sorry to say, I have never seen this kind of approach or language which Mr. Y has adhered to. It was in no way meeting an iota of professional decorum. The approach he took in conveying the message, which he did so discordantly, sounded as if I was asking for a loan from him and he rejected me, when I came with the tremendous excitement of xxxxx's Family and Culture. I will confess that Mr. Y is "One-of-a-kind" HR/Recruiter I have come across. I have always believed that one's altitude of life depends on the attitude one carries and this attitude of Mr. Y is absolutely incomparable. Maybe he should take a leaf out of your book.
From India, Hyderabad
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Recently, we hired a candidate in our organization (xxxxx) and the date of joining was the very next day. The candidate came the next day but without documents, to which one of the HR Managers at xxxxxx spoke to him very roughly. So, the candidate sent an email which I have copied and pasted below. Please read it completely and tell me whether the manager was correct or the candidate.
Hello (the HR's name),
At the commencement, I would like to show you courtesy for being an incredible HR.
The very next minute I got out of the room after having the telephonic conversation with Mr. Y, the hair-trigger thing I did was, I called my sister and urged her to scan and mail me all my documents for the simple reason that it would save some time, my endurance, and of course, fuel. She did the same without much delay. Please find attached the same.
I would want to candidly say that as a prospective employee, one would look out for an understanding and cooperating HR. I comprehend with Mr. Y that I should have brought my documents along; however, having said that, I would also uninhibitedly say that the verbiage he applied during the telephonic conversation and suggesting that I was making excuses with regards to yesterday's festival which kept me busy was totally unfitting and uncalled for. His belief that "I am not INTERESTED in joining" does not align at all. Nevertheless, I can't convince him otherwise. If he is "DISAPPOINTED" with me, so am I, being the first day of work (even if it is joining formalities first and then the rest of the process would follow) only because of the articulation he used. I don't think hell would have broken loose if I had submitted the documents tomorrow or had mailed them this evening, for, even I have worked in very disciplined organizations and I am sorry to say, I have never seen this kind of approach or language which Mr. Y has adhered to. It was in no way meeting an iota of professional decorum. The approach he took in conveying the message, which he did so discordantly, sounded as if I was asking for a loan from him and he rejected me, when I came with the tremendous excitement of xxxxx's Family and Culture. I will confess that Mr. Y is "One-of-a-kind" HR/Recruiter I have come across. I have always believed that one's altitude of life depends on the attitude one carries and this attitude of Mr. Y is absolutely incomparable. Maybe he should take a leaf out of your book.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Ms. Swapnil Joshi,
I have read your query and the email sent by the new joiner.
I appreciate the new joiner because "HE IS MATURED ENOUGH TO WRITE FORMALLY (POLITELY) WHILE NARRATING THE WHOLE SITUATION". Your manager has lost his reputation.
Please be informed that HR MANAGERS should be known for the BEST MANAGING SKILLS that one can possess. How can your manager, Mr. Y, behave negatively for just one reason - NOT CARRYING THE DOCUMENTS, which could have been submitted the next day?
When an employee (entry-level) behaves rudely, immediately a memo is served stating VIOLATION OF CODE OF CONDUCT or he/she is compelled to submit a written apology to rectify the situation. When an HR MANAGER makes the same mistake, why can't someone initiate the same process as is applicable to a junior employee?
"FIRST IMPRESSION IS THE BEST IMPRESSION," it is applicable to everyone. It is your Manager who lost his image due to rude behavior. With such an attitude, your manager cannot progress in his career. To my knowledge, no one has the right to behave rudely, neither an EMPLOYEE nor THE BOSS. There is a way to correct one's mistakes. Shouting at someone will not solve the issue but create distances.
With profound regards,
From India, Chennai
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294I have read your query and the email sent by the new joiner.
I appreciate the new joiner because "HE IS MATURED ENOUGH TO WRITE FORMALLY (POLITELY) WHILE NARRATING THE WHOLE SITUATION". Your manager has lost his reputation.
Please be informed that HR MANAGERS should be known for the BEST MANAGING SKILLS that one can possess. How can your manager, Mr. Y, behave negatively for just one reason - NOT CARRYING THE DOCUMENTS, which could have been submitted the next day?
When an employee (entry-level) behaves rudely, immediately a memo is served stating VIOLATION OF CODE OF CONDUCT or he/she is compelled to submit a written apology to rectify the situation. When an HR MANAGER makes the same mistake, why can't someone initiate the same process as is applicable to a junior employee?
"FIRST IMPRESSION IS THE BEST IMPRESSION," it is applicable to everyone. It is your Manager who lost his image due to rude behavior. With such an attitude, your manager cannot progress in his career. To my knowledge, no one has the right to behave rudely, neither an EMPLOYEE nor THE BOSS. There is a way to correct one's mistakes. Shouting at someone will not solve the issue but create distances.
With profound regards,
From India, Chennai
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Hello Swapnil.Joshi81,
Khadir is very much right.
I may also add that [assuming the individual finally joined your company], wasn't it for you, xxxx would have lost him altogether. You saved him for the company.
Coming to Y's behaviour during their interaction, frankly the less said the better. I think it's common knowledge that the primary role of any HR is to focus on 'how' rather than 'what' is being conveyed. Even the worst of the news or information or viewpoint can be conveyed politely & yet firmly and clearly. And if an HR person can't do it, frankly he/she would be either a misfit for an HR career OR he/she has become too big for his/her boots.
The Final Call in either of the situations will have to be taken by the Company, since such attitude needs to be checked right at the beginning before it becomes a pattern--when the damage would [NOT 'could'] be far higher.
One Quote comes to my mind [I think it was Peter Drucker] here: The moment you think you are indispensable to the company, it's time to move on--else both you & the company get destroyed. Is it that Y has come to think that he can get away with anything & he will not be touched?
For all we know, maybe this isn't the first time this has happened in your Company--except that this person had the mental clarity to bring this incident to your notice for the first time--in a much more civic tone than your colleague in HR.
I recollect a Quote here: "A bad word from the mouth of a commoner is blasphemy from the mouth of a priest."
I guess/hope that sums up the gist of what needs to be done with Y.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Khadir is very much right.
I may also add that [assuming the individual finally joined your company], wasn't it for you, xxxx would have lost him altogether. You saved him for the company.
Coming to Y's behaviour during their interaction, frankly the less said the better. I think it's common knowledge that the primary role of any HR is to focus on 'how' rather than 'what' is being conveyed. Even the worst of the news or information or viewpoint can be conveyed politely & yet firmly and clearly. And if an HR person can't do it, frankly he/she would be either a misfit for an HR career OR he/she has become too big for his/her boots.
The Final Call in either of the situations will have to be taken by the Company, since such attitude needs to be checked right at the beginning before it becomes a pattern--when the damage would [NOT 'could'] be far higher.
One Quote comes to my mind [I think it was Peter Drucker] here: The moment you think you are indispensable to the company, it's time to move on--else both you & the company get destroyed. Is it that Y has come to think that he can get away with anything & he will not be touched?
For all we know, maybe this isn't the first time this has happened in your Company--except that this person had the mental clarity to bring this incident to your notice for the first time--in a much more civic tone than your colleague in HR.
I recollect a Quote here: "A bad word from the mouth of a commoner is blasphemy from the mouth of a priest."
I guess/hope that sums up the gist of what needs to be done with Y.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Before we give much more gas, we are hearing only one side of the story. Y might have a very different tale to tell.
It is good that the newbie has had the guts to speak thus. Corrective action is required. However, this is just one side of the story. Let's not judge xxxxx on that.
From United States, Daphne
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It is good that the newbie has had the guts to speak thus. Corrective action is required. However, this is just one side of the story. Let's not judge xxxxx on that.
From United States, Daphne
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Top hat to the new joinee for providing his feedback, but we should not come to a conclusion before knowing the other side of the story. Hiring is a continuous process for HR, and not submitting documents on the first day is not something new. I don't think any reasonable HR will shout or create an issue from it, especially with a new joinee. I believe there is another side of the coin. There can be an ego issue for the new joinee... Can there be?
Whatever the case may be, talk to Mr. HR and provide him with some insights. HR is also a human being, and it's mistakes that make us human. So, learn from it and move forward.
[Link to the blog post: http://kuldeeprathore.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-become-employer-of-choice-not.html]
From India, Hyderabad
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Whatever the case may be, talk to Mr. HR and provide him with some insights. HR is also a human being, and it's mistakes that make us human. So, learn from it and move forward.
[Link to the blog post: http://kuldeeprathore.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-become-employer-of-choice-not.html]
From India, Hyderabad
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it was very rude of Y; he needs to be issued discliplinary action and suspended and might be a capital punishment will do justice to the poor new joinee.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Oh, please. Just because a person has sent an email, everyone is targeting the person. Also, in the first step, it is not correct to paste the email addressed to an HR person of an organization by mentioning the name of the person and the organization. Would humbly request our friend to remove it.
The person has come to join an organization. How can he be so casual that he did not bring the documents? What sincerity does he show towards the job? He has mentioned that he came with great excitement; if that is the case, he should have made all preparations ready from his side. He has also mentioned that hell will never break loose if he submits the documents the next day. It shows that he is not ready to admit his mistakes, still focusing on the person's reactions. We are not kids to forget things and come to school. This is our job; we need to show at least some respect for our job and ourselves. Please understand that.
The candidate was so much concerned about the festival, not even able to spend 5-10 minutes for himself to prepare for the first day of his job. Things are taken casually, and when it bounces back on us, we never respond; we react.
From India, Coimbatore
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The person has come to join an organization. How can he be so casual that he did not bring the documents? What sincerity does he show towards the job? He has mentioned that he came with great excitement; if that is the case, he should have made all preparations ready from his side. He has also mentioned that hell will never break loose if he submits the documents the next day. It shows that he is not ready to admit his mistakes, still focusing on the person's reactions. We are not kids to forget things and come to school. This is our job; we need to show at least some respect for our job and ourselves. Please understand that.
The candidate was so much concerned about the festival, not even able to spend 5-10 minutes for himself to prepare for the first day of his job. Things are taken casually, and when it bounces back on us, we never respond; we react.
From India, Coimbatore
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Peer Mohamed Sardhar has given good advice among others. I had edited messages to remove the company name and the HR's before reading Sardhar's.
We, the seniors, should set an example in giving balanced views like Sardhar and others and not jump to conclusions or make remarks about the HR's behavior. In one-to-one communications where there are no witnesses, it's one's word against the other. Just because a candidate has written an email politely and has articulated the case does not make his/her statements true regarding what happened. The thread starter should have investigated the case even before posting the query.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
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We, the seniors, should set an example in giving balanced views like Sardhar and others and not jump to conclusions or make remarks about the HR's behavior. In one-to-one communications where there are no witnesses, it's one's word against the other. Just because a candidate has written an email politely and has articulated the case does not make his/her statements true regarding what happened. The thread starter should have investigated the case even before posting the query.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
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Dear Swapnil,
I always believed that when you are in an organization, you have the obligation to set positive examples both in actions and deeds, no matter the level at which the employee is employed.
I have not heard both sides, but based on hearing one side, I believe that there was a mistake on the part of HR. In any organization, the initial two months are given for the employee to settle and adjust to the new work environment. In today's competitive landscape where cost-cutting is a significant factor for many companies, as an HR manager, one should always strive to retain both new and existing employees to reduce recruitment costs.
However, this action by the HR manager has a negative impact on the company's employee welfare and retention efforts. Ideally, the HR manager should undergo training in the coming days. Additionally, someone above the HR manager should take the time to talk to the employee to restore their faith in the company.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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I always believed that when you are in an organization, you have the obligation to set positive examples both in actions and deeds, no matter the level at which the employee is employed.
I have not heard both sides, but based on hearing one side, I believe that there was a mistake on the part of HR. In any organization, the initial two months are given for the employee to settle and adjust to the new work environment. In today's competitive landscape where cost-cutting is a significant factor for many companies, as an HR manager, one should always strive to retain both new and existing employees to reduce recruitment costs.
However, this action by the HR manager has a negative impact on the company's employee welfare and retention efforts. Ideally, the HR manager should undergo training in the coming days. Additionally, someone above the HR manager should take the time to talk to the employee to restore their faith in the company.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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First, the person who has posted this email does not have the basic courtesy to remove the name of the company. I believe he is working in the same organization and does not have basic ethics to follow. It shows how immature he is.
Secondly, the email represents only one side of the story. I do not understand why some of our fellow members have concluded that the HR Manager is wrong.
Thirdly, if a candidate is proud of his family background and is sincere in his personal and professional life, he should not make lame excuses about family functions and other reasons for not submitting his documents. He should have brought his original documents (such as his SSLC for his Date of Birth, other educational qualification certificates, address proof, identity proof, previous employment experience/ relieving letters) and explained, "Boss, I have joined your organization less than 24 hours from the Date of Offer, so please excuse me for not submitting the photocopies immediately. For verification, I have my originals, and the photocopies will be submitted within two days." This behavior is called professionalism. Professionalism should come from the individual, not just the organization. Even if all of the above was done and the HR Manager or recruitment manager reprimanded him, I believe the respective HR person requires behavioral training.
From India, Pune
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Secondly, the email represents only one side of the story. I do not understand why some of our fellow members have concluded that the HR Manager is wrong.
Thirdly, if a candidate is proud of his family background and is sincere in his personal and professional life, he should not make lame excuses about family functions and other reasons for not submitting his documents. He should have brought his original documents (such as his SSLC for his Date of Birth, other educational qualification certificates, address proof, identity proof, previous employment experience/ relieving letters) and explained, "Boss, I have joined your organization less than 24 hours from the Date of Offer, so please excuse me for not submitting the photocopies immediately. For verification, I have my originals, and the photocopies will be submitted within two days." This behavior is called professionalism. Professionalism should come from the individual, not just the organization. Even if all of the above was done and the HR Manager or recruitment manager reprimanded him, I believe the respective HR person requires behavioral training.
From India, Pune
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Dear All,
I believe that at this point in time, the matter that needs to be discussed is what has been presented to us. We should see it from the point of view of a case study, a case study with multiple methods of interpretation at different levels. Interpretation of such a nature that all interpretations can be wrong or right, but each one is distinct based on the amount of falsity and truth in the interpretation.
We should not worry about how the content is presented or how it should be presented, but we should be concerned about what is in the content.
We have the choice of judging the case based on its content and suggesting a solution, or we can focus on words, methods of communication, and miss the bigger picture.
The author of the post has sought our opinion, and we need to provide a solution based on what is presented for analysis.
Regardless of the justification provided, prima facie, based on what is presented here, the HR manager is at fault.
Let's decide the matter based on facts and set emotions aside while dealing with the case study.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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I believe that at this point in time, the matter that needs to be discussed is what has been presented to us. We should see it from the point of view of a case study, a case study with multiple methods of interpretation at different levels. Interpretation of such a nature that all interpretations can be wrong or right, but each one is distinct based on the amount of falsity and truth in the interpretation.
We should not worry about how the content is presented or how it should be presented, but we should be concerned about what is in the content.
We have the choice of judging the case based on its content and suggesting a solution, or we can focus on words, methods of communication, and miss the bigger picture.
The author of the post has sought our opinion, and we need to provide a solution based on what is presented for analysis.
Regardless of the justification provided, prima facie, based on what is presented here, the HR manager is at fault.
Let's decide the matter based on facts and set emotions aside while dealing with the case study.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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Let me put "The cat among the pigeons" as it were and raise a question. What is the motive of the blogger who protected the identity of the applicant but was forthcoming with the name of the individual HR person? Does he/she have any axe to grind? Being the cynic I am, I raise that question.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Dear Simhan,
I, as a person, am not concerned with the motive behind the person's post. Instead, I am more interested in the content of the message itself.
I am focused on finding a solution to the query raised by the author, rather than questioning the authenticity of the post's author.
Therefore, I suggest we approach this query objectively, treating it as a case study, and refrain from letting emotions cloud our judgment.
It is possible that the author of the post may have intentionally or unintentionally forgotten to remove the name of the HR person.
If the author did so intentionally, it would be wrong, regardless of any professional disagreements with the HR person. If it was unintentional, there is little we can do or say, and as the moderator, you have taken appropriate action.
It is impossible for us to determine whether the failure to remove the name was intentional or accidental.
Therefore, giving the benefit of the doubt and lacking other evidence, I choose to believe in the author's innocence, in line with the principles of natural justice.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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I, as a person, am not concerned with the motive behind the person's post. Instead, I am more interested in the content of the message itself.
I am focused on finding a solution to the query raised by the author, rather than questioning the authenticity of the post's author.
Therefore, I suggest we approach this query objectively, treating it as a case study, and refrain from letting emotions cloud our judgment.
It is possible that the author of the post may have intentionally or unintentionally forgotten to remove the name of the HR person.
If the author did so intentionally, it would be wrong, regardless of any professional disagreements with the HR person. If it was unintentional, there is little we can do or say, and as the moderator, you have taken appropriate action.
It is impossible for us to determine whether the failure to remove the name was intentional or accidental.
Therefore, giving the benefit of the doubt and lacking other evidence, I choose to believe in the author's innocence, in line with the principles of natural justice.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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What is both EASY as well as DIFFICULT in life?
MISTAKE...
EASY To Judge When Others Do It...
DIFFICULT To Recognize and Realize When We Do It.
Don't be afraid to admit when you know you are wrong. It is not a sign of weakness but shows character and responsibility. Others will respect you for that.
In most cases, I have seen people defending individuals holding similar positions, but never has anyone tried to correct their mistakes or support those who are of lower rank.
I have a query to be solved:
1) Who has given the rights to MANAGERS to behave RUDELY with employees?
2) Why can't employees behave the way their superiors behave?
3) Why don't we adopt a process of inculcating good habits in our employees by educating them?
What kind of world are we living in... everywhere BIASED DECISIONS/CONCLUSIONS...
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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MISTAKE...
EASY To Judge When Others Do It...
DIFFICULT To Recognize and Realize When We Do It.
Don't be afraid to admit when you know you are wrong. It is not a sign of weakness but shows character and responsibility. Others will respect you for that.
In most cases, I have seen people defending individuals holding similar positions, but never has anyone tried to correct their mistakes or support those who are of lower rank.
I have a query to be solved:
1) Who has given the rights to MANAGERS to behave RUDELY with employees?
2) Why can't employees behave the way their superiors behave?
3) Why don't we adopt a process of inculcating good habits in our employees by educating them?
What kind of world are we living in... everywhere BIASED DECISIONS/CONCLUSIONS...
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Dear all,
In my opinion, if you are working in the HR department, you should exude passion in everything you do. When a new employee joins a company, it is crucial for the HR department to perform their duties in a friendly manner and provide a comfortable environment for the employee.
Whatever actions this HR person has taken are unethical and completely wrong. Always remember, the first word in HR is 'H,' which stands for human. Therefore, it is essential to prioritize being humane and not treating anybody in an inappropriate manner.
From India, Gurgaon
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In my opinion, if you are working in the HR department, you should exude passion in everything you do. When a new employee joins a company, it is crucial for the HR department to perform their duties in a friendly manner and provide a comfortable environment for the employee.
Whatever actions this HR person has taken are unethical and completely wrong. Always remember, the first word in HR is 'H,' which stands for human. Therefore, it is essential to prioritize being humane and not treating anybody in an inappropriate manner.
From India, Gurgaon
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See, it is all just based on an email that is being copied and pasted; the HR person is vindicated. Please let me know on what basis we have decided that the HR person is wrong.
A hangman's job is to hang; he cannot avoid it. The HR person was right in asking for the documents. The email mentions that just because of some festival, he is not able to bring the documents. I am wondering, what the festival has to do with this guy bringing his own documents for his job. He should feel bad about himself that he was not able to give self-respect. He had to cut a sorry figure in front of the other person.
On top of all this, he is annoyed with the treatment of the HR person. Let the member who has posted the query also mention what words of the HR person were arrogant and what made him annoyed. If a question has been asked to me whether I will hire the person or not, I would better not hire him.
From India, Coimbatore
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A hangman's job is to hang; he cannot avoid it. The HR person was right in asking for the documents. The email mentions that just because of some festival, he is not able to bring the documents. I am wondering, what the festival has to do with this guy bringing his own documents for his job. He should feel bad about himself that he was not able to give self-respect. He had to cut a sorry figure in front of the other person.
On top of all this, he is annoyed with the treatment of the HR person. Let the member who has posted the query also mention what words of the HR person were arrogant and what made him annoyed. If a question has been asked to me whether I will hire the person or not, I would better not hire him.
From India, Coimbatore
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I think the attitude of the complainant is typical of individuals who are irresponsible and do not adhere to guidelines or instructions. In case there was a requirement to present one's documents on the day of joining, then our aggrieved friend should have done so and not cribbed when rightly ticked off by the HR guy. I think an apology would be in order. Also, in case the HR guy has spoken rudely or used derogatory language, then he too needs to be suitably asked to refrain from doing so in the future. BE MORE RESPONSIBLE AND PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS, GUYS.
Take care,
Viren
From India, Bhopal
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Take care,
Viren
From India, Bhopal
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Dear All,
This entire topic has now deviated and snowballed into something else. What is happening now is that there seems to be a cartel formation occurring, with more of a ghetto attitude being showcased rather than a professional approach. I hope people return to normalcy soon and begin to understand the matter as it is, without delving too deeply into superlative analysis.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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This entire topic has now deviated and snowballed into something else. What is happening now is that there seems to be a cartel formation occurring, with more of a ghetto attitude being showcased rather than a professional approach. I hope people return to normalcy soon and begin to understand the matter as it is, without delving too deeply into superlative analysis.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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I accept Mr. Sardhar's and rk7Prakash.
Professionalism never comes from an organization; it should come from the individual. It doesn't look like the ego of an HR Manager; it is the ego of the candidate. At the beginning, only if he creates scenes like this. How will he be in the future?
From India, Bangalore
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Professionalism never comes from an organization; it should come from the individual. It doesn't look like the ego of an HR Manager; it is the ego of the candidate. At the beginning, only if he creates scenes like this. How will he be in the future?
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Swapnil,
As many of our members suggested, you should edit the post and remove the name of the company from it.
Another point to consider is that none of us know how the new joiner behaved with HR. If he had politely informed HR that he would bring the documents the next day, HR might not have reacted harshly. Additionally, the new joiner had the opportunity to bring the original documents but chose not to do so.
We should not blame HR for every action without fully understanding the situation.
From India, Mumbai
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As many of our members suggested, you should edit the post and remove the name of the company from it.
Another point to consider is that none of us know how the new joiner behaved with HR. If he had politely informed HR that he would bring the documents the next day, HR might not have reacted harshly. Additionally, the new joiner had the opportunity to bring the original documents but chose not to do so.
We should not blame HR for every action without fully understanding the situation.
From India, Mumbai
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I agree with Octavious. I always believed that when you are in an organization, you have the obligation to set positive examples both in action and deeds, no matter which level the employee is employed.
From Hong Kong
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From Hong Kong
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Dear All,
Following are my views:
Even if there is a one-sided story, the employee was not tactfully entertained, and a seed of grievance has been planted from the beginning (in case the employee joined), which is not good for the employee and the organization (as the employee was selected through the recruitment process of the organization and hence must be a quality resource). He can be given one day's time (as it shows from the style and language of his write-up).
HR should not only make employees comfortable but also competitive. However, in this case, nothing was done from the HR manager's side. It could be a behavioral issue. No offense!
Best Regards,
Aishvarya
From India, Indore
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Following are my views:
Even if there is a one-sided story, the employee was not tactfully entertained, and a seed of grievance has been planted from the beginning (in case the employee joined), which is not good for the employee and the organization (as the employee was selected through the recruitment process of the organization and hence must be a quality resource). He can be given one day's time (as it shows from the style and language of his write-up).
HR should not only make employees comfortable but also competitive. However, in this case, nothing was done from the HR manager's side. It could be a behavioral issue. No offense!
Best Regards,
Aishvarya
From India, Indore
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Hello,
This reply is especially for Mr. Peer Mohamed Sardhar and all others who are NOT aware of Hindu festivals and their importance for a Hindu. I would like to THANK all the people who have been interactive and presented their opinions. But because I know my Colleague Mr. Y is very proud and headstrong of being an HR, I will just ask TWO (2) questions to each and every individual.
1) Did you all read the mail sent by the employee PROPERLY, especially you Peer Sahab? Agreed that the prospective employee did not get the documents on the date of joining, does that mean HE/SHE CANNOT BE GIVEN SOME TIME?
2) In whichever case was my colleague Mr. Y CORRECT/RIGHT in talking to him in a tone that is not acceptable in any industry? Knowing him, I really hope he does not APPROACH ANY LEGAL ADVISOR because that will surely tarnish the name of the organization as the Internet and Media will catch up soon.
I suggest everybody READ the mail the employee sent before posting any opinions. I can vouch for the prospective employee because he/she knew my headstrong colleague only for two (2) days, but I have known my colleague for over Three (3) years now. The employee does not have any personal hatred for my colleague, but only because the employee was spoken to in a manner that hurt him/her was the mail sent. I have been working in the same organization as Mr. Y, and the way the other people on the HR Panel handle things is not like Mr. Y. Mr. Y could have told the employee about the company policy in a more professional way rather than using the language that has been mentioned in the mail.
Good Day.
Swapnil.
From India, Hyderabad
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This reply is especially for Mr. Peer Mohamed Sardhar and all others who are NOT aware of Hindu festivals and their importance for a Hindu. I would like to THANK all the people who have been interactive and presented their opinions. But because I know my Colleague Mr. Y is very proud and headstrong of being an HR, I will just ask TWO (2) questions to each and every individual.
1) Did you all read the mail sent by the employee PROPERLY, especially you Peer Sahab? Agreed that the prospective employee did not get the documents on the date of joining, does that mean HE/SHE CANNOT BE GIVEN SOME TIME?
2) In whichever case was my colleague Mr. Y CORRECT/RIGHT in talking to him in a tone that is not acceptable in any industry? Knowing him, I really hope he does not APPROACH ANY LEGAL ADVISOR because that will surely tarnish the name of the organization as the Internet and Media will catch up soon.
I suggest everybody READ the mail the employee sent before posting any opinions. I can vouch for the prospective employee because he/she knew my headstrong colleague only for two (2) days, but I have known my colleague for over Three (3) years now. The employee does not have any personal hatred for my colleague, but only because the employee was spoken to in a manner that hurt him/her was the mail sent. I have been working in the same organization as Mr. Y, and the way the other people on the HR Panel handle things is not like Mr. Y. Mr. Y could have told the employee about the company policy in a more professional way rather than using the language that has been mentioned in the mail.
Good Day.
Swapnil.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Swapnil,
As per your above-said email, I believe that the mistake is from both sides. I agree with the peer that the employee who is coming to join the organization must carry his documents, which are a basic requirement. You cannot come empty-handed. However, it is also true that as an HR manager, one has to behave in such a manner that the new employee must feel a cordial environment. But I believe that sometimes, under the hiring pressure, HR people also lose their temperament.
In this kind of situation, we need to control ourselves and act smartly so that our purpose is also served, and no one can raise a finger against us.
Regards,
Amit
9650592207
From India, Delhi
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As per your above-said email, I believe that the mistake is from both sides. I agree with the peer that the employee who is coming to join the organization must carry his documents, which are a basic requirement. You cannot come empty-handed. However, it is also true that as an HR manager, one has to behave in such a manner that the new employee must feel a cordial environment. But I believe that sometimes, under the hiring pressure, HR people also lose their temperament.
In this kind of situation, we need to control ourselves and act smartly so that our purpose is also served, and no one can raise a finger against us.
Regards,
Amit
9650592207
From India, Delhi
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Dear Swapnil,
It's true that you know your colleague better than anyone else, but if you have posted something for discussion, you will always get a response from both angles, and you must accept the same. A peer has his own view, and I believe the other side of the coin also needs to be taken into consideration.
I personally thank you for bringing this matter for discussion, which can provide a lesson to all readers.
Regards,
Amit
From India, Delhi
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It's true that you know your colleague better than anyone else, but if you have posted something for discussion, you will always get a response from both angles, and you must accept the same. A peer has his own view, and I believe the other side of the coin also needs to be taken into consideration.
I personally thank you for bringing this matter for discussion, which can provide a lesson to all readers.
Regards,
Amit
From India, Delhi
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As said by Mr. Peer Mohammed Sardhar, the candidate has to come for joining with the proper offer of Employment letter, Educational Certificates, experience certificates, a medical fitness certificate, and other documents as required by the new joining company.
As a matter of fact, while joining, candidates are expected to bring the above documents for verification (original and 1 xerox copy of documents) without fail, as the same might have been mentioned in the Offer of employment letter issued by the HR Department. Any deviation from that will obviously cause irritation to any normal person.
In this case, the HR manager could have refused to induct him the next day. Instead of shouting at him, he could have consulted the management and changed the date of joining after a reasonable time period.
From India, Kumbakonam
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As a matter of fact, while joining, candidates are expected to bring the above documents for verification (original and 1 xerox copy of documents) without fail, as the same might have been mentioned in the Offer of employment letter issued by the HR Department. Any deviation from that will obviously cause irritation to any normal person.
In this case, the HR manager could have refused to induct him the next day. Instead of shouting at him, he could have consulted the management and changed the date of joining after a reasonable time period.
From India, Kumbakonam
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If you give him an inch, he will take a mile!
If you let your policy framework be too flexible, the flexibility can kill you!
It's like saying: I broke a traffic rule, but hell didn't break loose... Well, buddy, our traffic conditions are pathetic just due to this attitude. The stress levels while driving, the number of accidents and deaths, and the overall transport cost far exceed Europe, where minor offenses are recorded and punished severely.
The HR manager inducting has to do it efficiently. One cannot expect him to keep following up with guys after joining. It's not a good practice. He has other work to do than load his staff with this petty joining formality.
That being said, a colleague posting that saying that he was wrong is construable as a defamation exercise. Being a lawyer as well, I would urge the moderators to help sensitize the person on such consequences.
Every issue should be professionally treated, and the understanding of those words varies a lot with the receiver. However, bringing in that objectivity is probably the task of the top management.
Lastly, A class men recruit A class men... B class men recruit C class men... So, if one is pushing the limits here, Mr. Y will not be the only guy in the limelight (assuming he is wrong, which cannot be proven here anyway).
From United States, Daphne
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If you let your policy framework be too flexible, the flexibility can kill you!
It's like saying: I broke a traffic rule, but hell didn't break loose... Well, buddy, our traffic conditions are pathetic just due to this attitude. The stress levels while driving, the number of accidents and deaths, and the overall transport cost far exceed Europe, where minor offenses are recorded and punished severely.
The HR manager inducting has to do it efficiently. One cannot expect him to keep following up with guys after joining. It's not a good practice. He has other work to do than load his staff with this petty joining formality.
That being said, a colleague posting that saying that he was wrong is construable as a defamation exercise. Being a lawyer as well, I would urge the moderators to help sensitize the person on such consequences.
Every issue should be professionally treated, and the understanding of those words varies a lot with the receiver. However, bringing in that objectivity is probably the task of the top management.
Lastly, A class men recruit A class men... B class men recruit C class men... So, if one is pushing the limits here, Mr. Y will not be the only guy in the limelight (assuming he is wrong, which cannot be proven here anyway).
From United States, Daphne
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Dear Swapnil,
Kindly remove the name of the HR person from the post that you have made. Please read the forum rules and regulations before you post. Failure to adhere to the request of editing your latest post will force me to block you.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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Kindly remove the name of the HR person from the post that you have made. Please read the forum rules and regulations before you post. Failure to adhere to the request of editing your latest post will force me to block you.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Swapnil,
Please try to avoid making derogatory statements. I strongly object to the way you have raised the point, mentioning that I am not aware of Hindu Festivals. Please understand that nowhere did I mention criticizing any festival. I only stated that the person needs to prepare himself for whatever the festival may be. Do not paint a different picture. Please learn to read the information properly and reply.
It now makes us think whether you are the candidate in question. If that is the case, I am sorry; it is difficult.
From India, Coimbatore
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Please try to avoid making derogatory statements. I strongly object to the way you have raised the point, mentioning that I am not aware of Hindu Festivals. Please understand that nowhere did I mention criticizing any festival. I only stated that the person needs to prepare himself for whatever the festival may be. Do not paint a different picture. Please learn to read the information properly and reply.
It now makes us think whether you are the candidate in question. If that is the case, I am sorry; it is difficult.
From India, Coimbatore
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Hi All,
Agreed with Bhaskar. Simple one, Bhaskar, and correct remarks!!
Come on. This is part of recruitment, these cases may come. We all know that cost is involved in recruitment.
If an employee is not carrying the doc., it is his/her loss (May be joining can happen after a day so the salary will also start from the next day :-)), only it should be dealt with tact other than shouting or misbehaving or using harsh words.
Please Note:
-> He has not misbehaved with anybody.
-> He/she has not declined the offer after agreeing on terms and conditions.
-> He/she has not misbehaved during the interview.
He is selected through a process (means he is technically fit and culture fit as well :), so trust and then take action if trust is broken). After leaving one job, most people become excited (as one perceives it will be a new beginning, thoughts like I will do that or do this) or anxious (if one perceives, oh!!..What will happen) or lazy (if one perceives, as there is new work).
An individual behaves due to all these human behaviors (based on his/her perception) and HR is there to understand. This is his/her job.
I am sure the Hiring team (invested efforts and papers (tomorrow is Earth Day 😊), they followed the org process, etc., and finally candidates join) will be most unhappy if the employee does not join due to a silly reason that he could not be given time to submit documents in the evening.
Best Regards, Aishvarya
From India, Indore
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Agreed with Bhaskar. Simple one, Bhaskar, and correct remarks!!
Come on. This is part of recruitment, these cases may come. We all know that cost is involved in recruitment.
If an employee is not carrying the doc., it is his/her loss (May be joining can happen after a day so the salary will also start from the next day :-)), only it should be dealt with tact other than shouting or misbehaving or using harsh words.
Please Note:
-> He has not misbehaved with anybody.
-> He/she has not declined the offer after agreeing on terms and conditions.
-> He/she has not misbehaved during the interview.
He is selected through a process (means he is technically fit and culture fit as well :), so trust and then take action if trust is broken). After leaving one job, most people become excited (as one perceives it will be a new beginning, thoughts like I will do that or do this) or anxious (if one perceives, oh!!..What will happen) or lazy (if one perceives, as there is new work).
An individual behaves due to all these human behaviors (based on his/her perception) and HR is there to understand. This is his/her job.
I am sure the Hiring team (invested efforts and papers (tomorrow is Earth Day 😊), they followed the org process, etc., and finally candidates join) will be most unhappy if the employee does not join due to a silly reason that he could not be given time to submit documents in the evening.
Best Regards, Aishvarya
From India, Indore
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Mr. Peer Mohd Sardar is very much entitled to have his views in the matter, as much as any other friend in this thread. It's an affront to him if anybody in the thread questions his sense of reasoning. He has very much stayed true to his decency by not questioning other participants' views but was forthright enough to apply his mind and deal with the subject matter according to certain acceptable role convictions, if not all.
If somebody feels he is fully correct and Mr. Sardar totally wrong, why do we need a discussion on predetermined conclusions at all? One's views in HR matters may be refutable in part or in whole. What is required is a certain amount of intellectual tolerance while doing so. Like many HR issues that do not have wholly correct or wholly wrong answers, this case also falls into that category. Both the HR and the employee have their share of blemishes to be dealt with in this issue. The HR could have been more upright considering his higher position in the organization, while the employee could have been more diligent and attentive to his own cause. We need to improve such situations and make amends as much as we judge things or people as being right or wrong.
We are all aware that a more optimistic HR thinking values and management practices - 'I am OK, you are OK' - will moderate/balance such odd situations of erratic dimensions.
From India, Mumbai
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If somebody feels he is fully correct and Mr. Sardar totally wrong, why do we need a discussion on predetermined conclusions at all? One's views in HR matters may be refutable in part or in whole. What is required is a certain amount of intellectual tolerance while doing so. Like many HR issues that do not have wholly correct or wholly wrong answers, this case also falls into that category. Both the HR and the employee have their share of blemishes to be dealt with in this issue. The HR could have been more upright considering his higher position in the organization, while the employee could have been more diligent and attentive to his own cause. We need to improve such situations and make amends as much as we judge things or people as being right or wrong.
We are all aware that a more optimistic HR thinking values and management practices - 'I am OK, you are OK' - will moderate/balance such odd situations of erratic dimensions.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Swapnil,
Please pay attention to my current post. There is a twist in our discussions as it is getting complicated.
I read your post and would like to ask you a couple of questions, where I am expecting your honest reply. Kindly don't cheat yourself.
1) You sound so mature in your thoughts, and I found that you are very much capable of handling this issue. But why didn't you try to educate your colleague about his attitude, since you are aware of your colleague's attitude and you both have been working together for the past 3 years? What made you post the whole story in this forum?
2) If I am not wrong, it is you who attempted to degrade your colleague, and look at the name of your thread "THE HEAVY WEIGHT OF EGO OF AN HR MANAGER." Why did you do this, and what made you do this?
3) It is you who revealed the NAME of the COMPANY and HR MANAGER, but why didn't you mention the name of the new joinee....
Hello (the HR's name)....... Do let us know, who received the email sent by the new joinee?
If it is addressed to your colleague, HR MANAGER, how did you get access to his email because it is you who had posted the email content.
Kindly don't underestimate any members of this community. Neither you nor the new joinee is the only person celebrating festivals uniquely. Everyone in this world is aware of FESTIVALS because a FESTIVAL IS A FESTIVAL irrespective of the religion it is associated with. The only reason why I am highlighting this to you is that while addressing such threads, we members of this community are losing our unity, which is our strength, and it's creating distances/misunderstanding among ourselves.
We members of this community are here to post our opinions, but our opinions cannot be taken for granted, and neither are we compelling anyone to implement the same, strictly, nor can it be mistaken as well because opinions/suggestions are just perceptions/thoughts. It can be negative or positive. Again, it's up to the receiver how he/she perceives it.
"If anyone says someone is wrong"...neither we are going to be wrong under any circumstances nor are we going to lose anything. We are mature professionals and should know that discussions are only discussions but not decisions.
Seniors/experienced members of this community need to understand in which direction this forum is heading. I am not prepared to see this forum losing its reputation because a reputed member of this community (even after enjoying his rights) had commented negatively about citehr. That shows our mentality.
Let's focus on the facts before we proceed further, let not be our comments "prematured." It implies to me as well.
Forgive me if I was wrong.
Good luck to all.
With profound regards
[/QUOTE]
From India, Chennai
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Please pay attention to my current post. There is a twist in our discussions as it is getting complicated.
I read your post and would like to ask you a couple of questions, where I am expecting your honest reply. Kindly don't cheat yourself.
1) You sound so mature in your thoughts, and I found that you are very much capable of handling this issue. But why didn't you try to educate your colleague about his attitude, since you are aware of your colleague's attitude and you both have been working together for the past 3 years? What made you post the whole story in this forum?
2) If I am not wrong, it is you who attempted to degrade your colleague, and look at the name of your thread "THE HEAVY WEIGHT OF EGO OF AN HR MANAGER." Why did you do this, and what made you do this?
3) It is you who revealed the NAME of the COMPANY and HR MANAGER, but why didn't you mention the name of the new joinee....
Hello (the HR's name)....... Do let us know, who received the email sent by the new joinee?
If it is addressed to your colleague, HR MANAGER, how did you get access to his email because it is you who had posted the email content.
Kindly don't underestimate any members of this community. Neither you nor the new joinee is the only person celebrating festivals uniquely. Everyone in this world is aware of FESTIVALS because a FESTIVAL IS A FESTIVAL irrespective of the religion it is associated with. The only reason why I am highlighting this to you is that while addressing such threads, we members of this community are losing our unity, which is our strength, and it's creating distances/misunderstanding among ourselves.
We members of this community are here to post our opinions, but our opinions cannot be taken for granted, and neither are we compelling anyone to implement the same, strictly, nor can it be mistaken as well because opinions/suggestions are just perceptions/thoughts. It can be negative or positive. Again, it's up to the receiver how he/she perceives it.
"If anyone says someone is wrong"...neither we are going to be wrong under any circumstances nor are we going to lose anything. We are mature professionals and should know that discussions are only discussions but not decisions.
Seniors/experienced members of this community need to understand in which direction this forum is heading. I am not prepared to see this forum losing its reputation because a reputed member of this community (even after enjoying his rights) had commented negatively about citehr. That shows our mentality.
Let's focus on the facts before we proceed further, let not be our comments "prematured." It implies to me as well.
Forgive me if I was wrong.
Good luck to all.
With profound regards
[/QUOTE]
From India, Chennai
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Hello everyone,
We request all the members to address the issue with maturity and not get involved in personal disputes. Swapnil has raised an issue for a proper solution, so please make sure that you all are here to solve the issues for Swapnil and other members of the forum. There are many members who are following this thread, and any inappropriate language or unprofessional dealing is noticed by all. Just think before you write such language as you may be a role model for many newcomers and existing members. Making unprofessional personal comments over a trivial issue is not right. Let's get back to the discussion and brainstorm to resolve it. We appreciate professional conduct on this forum.
Regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
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We request all the members to address the issue with maturity and not get involved in personal disputes. Swapnil has raised an issue for a proper solution, so please make sure that you all are here to solve the issues for Swapnil and other members of the forum. There are many members who are following this thread, and any inappropriate language or unprofessional dealing is noticed by all. Just think before you write such language as you may be a role model for many newcomers and existing members. Making unprofessional personal comments over a trivial issue is not right. Let's get back to the discussion and brainstorm to resolve it. We appreciate professional conduct on this forum.
Regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
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Hello Everyone,
Archna is right.
Frankly, I stopped following and participating in this thread after seeing things degenerate into more of a scoring-the-point debate with the main topic/subject getting out of focus.
Though not exactly to the context, at this stage, this does seem to be akin to the situation we have today vis-a-vis the Jan Lokpal Bill, with the main topic of corruption getting out of focus and personal targeting becoming the main focal point.
It's definitely possible to convey, without any personal pointers, if anyone has apprehensions about Swapnil Joshi's motives/intentions of this posting. Even Swapnil's original posting highlights the "tone & tenor" of the HR person's comments—not "what" he said (at least that's the way I looked at it). But along the way, things seem to have lost the focus.
One thing Swapnil needs to clarify/confirm ASAP is what Peer Sardhar has expressed—whether he is the employee concerned. For, if this is true, the whole debate could get a different connotation and meaning.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Archna is right.
Frankly, I stopped following and participating in this thread after seeing things degenerate into more of a scoring-the-point debate with the main topic/subject getting out of focus.
Though not exactly to the context, at this stage, this does seem to be akin to the situation we have today vis-a-vis the Jan Lokpal Bill, with the main topic of corruption getting out of focus and personal targeting becoming the main focal point.
It's definitely possible to convey, without any personal pointers, if anyone has apprehensions about Swapnil Joshi's motives/intentions of this posting. Even Swapnil's original posting highlights the "tone & tenor" of the HR person's comments—not "what" he said (at least that's the way I looked at it). But along the way, things seem to have lost the focus.
One thing Swapnil needs to clarify/confirm ASAP is what Peer Sardhar has expressed—whether he is the employee concerned. For, if this is true, the whole debate could get a different connotation and meaning.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Well,
Appears I have been misunderstood a lot.
First things first, Peer Saab - I am really sorry I hurt you, and I would also like to apologize to others who I might have hurt unknowingly.
To clear up a few misunderstandings that many people may have about me, let me tell them:
1) My real name is Swapnil Joshi, and I am not using any fake names. I have the name "Swapnil Joshi" printed on my Driving License, Passport, ID Badge, Credit/Debit Cards, etc.
2) My colleague and I are of the same designation in the organization, but he has been working a few years longer than I have.
3) I am also aware of the corporate politics, and that is the only reason my colleague has gotten away despite many (verbal) complaints about his professional misconduct, unnecessary ego, and indiscreet language. This time, he used all his negative qualities in front of a candidate who is much better than him in all angles. I can say this because I was there throughout the interview process of the candidate, and he/she was good in all ways, be it the technical knowledge, communication skills, experience, or approach. He could not take the illicit language of my colleague, gambled with his offer, which he received from such a good organization and mustered the courage to document a complaint for the record against my colleague by mailing almost everybody whose email addresses he knew.
I started this thread only because whatever happened was disgusting to the reputation of the organization, and still, I mentioned the name of the organization because I thought that this person has to change, and the only way that can happen is by involving the top-level management. Now almost everybody from HR Coordinator to the HR Director is aware of this discussion forum.
Now I would like to ask all of us... For how long should we tolerate this dirty corporate politics? For how long should we take the "lick my shoes, and you will grow" attitude of our superiors? We all claim to be highly qualified, but is that teaching us any moral values? No, we are only learning to make money in this corporate jungle, and each of us is becoming or has become a shark already.
I don't know what is in store for me when I go to work tomorrow, but I know I will at least have some peace of mind because I tried to change something that is bad and we are used to living with it. I also know that many people will laugh at me because public memory is short-lived. People in my organization will talk about this for a few days and forget, but this will definitely force the top-level management to have a word with my colleague, which will make him change his approach. And of course, this episode will remain in my memory until I die because it has taught me a huge lesson. A lesson that we should think about at least some emotions of people in this corporate jungle. This will make me a better person, only then will I become a better HR.
Good Day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
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Appears I have been misunderstood a lot.
First things first, Peer Saab - I am really sorry I hurt you, and I would also like to apologize to others who I might have hurt unknowingly.
To clear up a few misunderstandings that many people may have about me, let me tell them:
1) My real name is Swapnil Joshi, and I am not using any fake names. I have the name "Swapnil Joshi" printed on my Driving License, Passport, ID Badge, Credit/Debit Cards, etc.
2) My colleague and I are of the same designation in the organization, but he has been working a few years longer than I have.
3) I am also aware of the corporate politics, and that is the only reason my colleague has gotten away despite many (verbal) complaints about his professional misconduct, unnecessary ego, and indiscreet language. This time, he used all his negative qualities in front of a candidate who is much better than him in all angles. I can say this because I was there throughout the interview process of the candidate, and he/she was good in all ways, be it the technical knowledge, communication skills, experience, or approach. He could not take the illicit language of my colleague, gambled with his offer, which he received from such a good organization and mustered the courage to document a complaint for the record against my colleague by mailing almost everybody whose email addresses he knew.
I started this thread only because whatever happened was disgusting to the reputation of the organization, and still, I mentioned the name of the organization because I thought that this person has to change, and the only way that can happen is by involving the top-level management. Now almost everybody from HR Coordinator to the HR Director is aware of this discussion forum.
Now I would like to ask all of us... For how long should we tolerate this dirty corporate politics? For how long should we take the "lick my shoes, and you will grow" attitude of our superiors? We all claim to be highly qualified, but is that teaching us any moral values? No, we are only learning to make money in this corporate jungle, and each of us is becoming or has become a shark already.
I don't know what is in store for me when I go to work tomorrow, but I know I will at least have some peace of mind because I tried to change something that is bad and we are used to living with it. I also know that many people will laugh at me because public memory is short-lived. People in my organization will talk about this for a few days and forget, but this will definitely force the top-level management to have a word with my colleague, which will make him change his approach. And of course, this episode will remain in my memory until I die because it has taught me a huge lesson. A lesson that we should think about at least some emotions of people in this corporate jungle. This will make me a better person, only then will I become a better HR.
Good Day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
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Sticking to morals and ethics is a good thing, and we will have peace of mind that we did the right thing. However, it comes with a price. I have paid dearly for sticking to my principles of not bribing officials in India. In the same way, we all have to be prepared to pay the price. However, naming and shaming people and adversely affecting a firm by naming them in a public forum is not the norm, and we will await to learn what really does tomorrow. Maybe your detailed response was also prompted by my email.
Best wishes,
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
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Best wishes,
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
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Then you should have sent an email to the candidate from an anonymous email ID, stating, "Please forward your grievance to the Managing Director of VXXXX CO," and given the email ID of the Managing Director, CEO, VP, etc. This would make that arrogant person realize his mistake, and strict action will be taken.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hi guys,
Let's come back to the discussion that Miss Swapnil posted at first and now she is saying something.
First, I would like to ask Miss Swapnil if she is concerned about the HR Manager or if she wants a solution for the situation happening at her office.
Coming to the candidate who joined the very next day of accepting the offer, he might have agreed to submit the documents mentioned in the offer letter. Even then, how can he be so irresponsible towards his duties, which are basic fundamentals? If you look into this, how is he going to perform his duties in the near future? Instead of submitting the requested documents, he sent an email, showing his concern in a polite manner (which happened in a closed room), which is incorrect.
You or the concerned authorized person need to take proper disciplinary action towards the employee. On the very first day of his joining, he did this, and can you imagine what kind of problems your company is going to face in the near future? Just a question, think on this. An entry-level employee can complain about a very senior employee in the organization. What would be the situation for the rest of the employees in the organization? I appreciate the voice of the employee who raised the question towards the senior on the very first day of his joining.
I strongly agree with Rakesh and Peer Mohammed for their comments and suggestions on the present case study.
Miss Swapnil, I would like to ask you one thing: Are you worried about the Indian festivals or the fundamentals of your company?
Let me comment on the Hindu Festivals. For that reason, we (management) had announced the holiday calendar at the beginning of the year. Where does this question arise that a new employee should forget to submit his documents at the time of joining the organization?
For example, if you have to attend an urgent meeting the very next day of a Hindu Festival, will you forget to prepare your presentation or simply give an excuse, saying that you could not prepare the document because you were with your family for the festival?
Will it fulfill your commitment or what are you going to do?
Please be realistic and don't be so sentimental.
"No person was ever honored for what they received but honored and rewarded for what they gave."
"No excuse is an excuse to make an excuse."
From India, Hyderabad
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Let's come back to the discussion that Miss Swapnil posted at first and now she is saying something.
First, I would like to ask Miss Swapnil if she is concerned about the HR Manager or if she wants a solution for the situation happening at her office.
Coming to the candidate who joined the very next day of accepting the offer, he might have agreed to submit the documents mentioned in the offer letter. Even then, how can he be so irresponsible towards his duties, which are basic fundamentals? If you look into this, how is he going to perform his duties in the near future? Instead of submitting the requested documents, he sent an email, showing his concern in a polite manner (which happened in a closed room), which is incorrect.
You or the concerned authorized person need to take proper disciplinary action towards the employee. On the very first day of his joining, he did this, and can you imagine what kind of problems your company is going to face in the near future? Just a question, think on this. An entry-level employee can complain about a very senior employee in the organization. What would be the situation for the rest of the employees in the organization? I appreciate the voice of the employee who raised the question towards the senior on the very first day of his joining.
I strongly agree with Rakesh and Peer Mohammed for their comments and suggestions on the present case study.
Miss Swapnil, I would like to ask you one thing: Are you worried about the Indian festivals or the fundamentals of your company?
Let me comment on the Hindu Festivals. For that reason, we (management) had announced the holiday calendar at the beginning of the year. Where does this question arise that a new employee should forget to submit his documents at the time of joining the organization?
For example, if you have to attend an urgent meeting the very next day of a Hindu Festival, will you forget to prepare your presentation or simply give an excuse, saying that you could not prepare the document because you were with your family for the festival?
Will it fulfill your commitment or what are you going to do?
Please be realistic and don't be so sentimental.
"No person was ever honored for what they received but honored and rewarded for what they gave."
"No excuse is an excuse to make an excuse."
From India, Hyderabad
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Morning,
Mr. Simhan - Your mail was one of the reasons for the detailed post. The second reason is, I could go through all the opinions and understand them only when I had free time, that is after I came home from work and then leave my comment.
deadsoul2011 - I don't want to hide myself because I have not done anything wrong. Sometimes, the situation demands that we name a person, a group of persons, or even an organization. In this case, I was forced to mention my organization's name because despite many efforts as a colleague and friend, my attempts to change my colleague's behavior failed as our reporting manager supported him. I spoke to people with higher designation but without any result. Hence, I took this bold step and I am ready for anything that happens as soon as I reach work at 10:15 A.M.
Satya Penubothu - Just to correct you, Swapnil is "Mr.", not "Miss", in simple English, I am "He", not "She". I request you to refer to me with the correct gender henceforth.
Good Day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
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Mr. Simhan - Your mail was one of the reasons for the detailed post. The second reason is, I could go through all the opinions and understand them only when I had free time, that is after I came home from work and then leave my comment.
deadsoul2011 - I don't want to hide myself because I have not done anything wrong. Sometimes, the situation demands that we name a person, a group of persons, or even an organization. In this case, I was forced to mention my organization's name because despite many efforts as a colleague and friend, my attempts to change my colleague's behavior failed as our reporting manager supported him. I spoke to people with higher designation but without any result. Hence, I took this bold step and I am ready for anything that happens as soon as I reach work at 10:15 A.M.
Satya Penubothu - Just to correct you, Swapnil is "Mr.", not "Miss", in simple English, I am "He", not "She". I request you to refer to me with the correct gender henceforth.
Good Day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
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Hello Swapnil Joshi,
I wish you all the best for today at the office--no pun intended.
There's a reason why I am saying so, but more of that later. Suffice it to say that I interacted earlier with the gentleman and the organization you mentioned.
I know what you are up against. You have done what you thought is the best way to handle the situation. Now leave it to HIM.
Frankly, I think this is more of a test for your management than you--since the topic/situation is known to all in your organization. A lot of the future work culture/ethos in your company will depend on what they decide now. Whether they prefer to have a temporary truce/solution or a tough decision that gives long-term benefits is up to them, which is again decided by WHAT their focus is--in fact, this is a type of choice everyone gets and needs to make by every individual or organization on a regular basis.
Like Simhan said it: there's a price. I recollect a cowboy movie dialogue: there's nothing called 'free lunch' in life. There's a price to be paid for everything and anything. Even if the choice is, like what you mentioned 'LICK MY SHOES AND YOU WILL GROW'--it will be at the cost of one's self-respect and ethics. If that's okay with someone, that's his/her choice. So it all boils down to what ONE WANTS and is he/she ready to pay the price to achieve it. That's all. We can take examples galore either from the past or present to get this clear.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I wish you all the best for today at the office--no pun intended.
There's a reason why I am saying so, but more of that later. Suffice it to say that I interacted earlier with the gentleman and the organization you mentioned.
I know what you are up against. You have done what you thought is the best way to handle the situation. Now leave it to HIM.
Frankly, I think this is more of a test for your management than you--since the topic/situation is known to all in your organization. A lot of the future work culture/ethos in your company will depend on what they decide now. Whether they prefer to have a temporary truce/solution or a tough decision that gives long-term benefits is up to them, which is again decided by WHAT their focus is--in fact, this is a type of choice everyone gets and needs to make by every individual or organization on a regular basis.
Like Simhan said it: there's a price. I recollect a cowboy movie dialogue: there's nothing called 'free lunch' in life. There's a price to be paid for everything and anything. Even if the choice is, like what you mentioned 'LICK MY SHOES AND YOU WILL GROW'--it will be at the cost of one's self-respect and ethics. If that's okay with someone, that's his/her choice. So it all boils down to what ONE WANTS and is he/she ready to pay the price to achieve it. That's all. We can take examples galore either from the past or present to get this clear.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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We should not give our view only by hearing employee’s issue, we should hear both of them then its possible to say who is correct and who is not..
From India
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From India
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Dear Talents,
Khadir is absolutely right. The way the candidate wrote the email, explaining the situation, is very polite and professional. My vote will definitely go to the employee, and I believe the HR Manager should be made aware of the email. This may help the HR Manager realize their mistake and hopefully prevent it from happening again.
Thank you very much.
Regards,
Vikna Prakash.S
From India, Madras
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Khadir is absolutely right. The way the candidate wrote the email, explaining the situation, is very polite and professional. My vote will definitely go to the employee, and I believe the HR Manager should be made aware of the email. This may help the HR Manager realize their mistake and hopefully prevent it from happening again.
Thank you very much.
Regards,
Vikna Prakash.S
From India, Madras
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Here's a different perspective.
I run my own company, and if I receive such a complaint from a newbie, I would investigate it. Since Y has been working for me for years, I would tend to understand his position better than the newbie. Some changes may be required, but if the outcome of the investigation warrants strict action, I would not hesitate.
To me, the business impact of this incident is 'low,' and if someone were to try to make it an issue, well, you can well gauge the reaction... :-)
From United States, Daphne
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I run my own company, and if I receive such a complaint from a newbie, I would investigate it. Since Y has been working for me for years, I would tend to understand his position better than the newbie. Some changes may be required, but if the outcome of the investigation warrants strict action, I would not hesitate.
To me, the business impact of this incident is 'low,' and if someone were to try to make it an issue, well, you can well gauge the reaction... :-)
From United States, Daphne
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Dear Mr. Swapnil Joshi,
Kindly forgive me if I had misjudged your gender.
At the outset, I understood your mission and I want to congratulate you for trying to bring changes in your colleague. It was a tough job for you, and you played a major role. All credit goes to your courage.
It is for sure and a fact that everyone has their own patience limits. Trust me, it's not an easy job, but one requires courage and guts to initiate the process to bring even "a little changes" that can do wonders. Positive changes in one single employee can benefit many, even the organization, in many ways.
The fundamentals of an organization are associated with human values and human behavior. An organization is an entity and has no life or soul, but it is the employees (human beings) who run and manage organizations.
Well, you haven't lost anything, but you have already paid a price by making others feel that "change in your colleague was much needed." I don't know whether you feel what I felt; it is the Almighty who made you post about your colleague's attitude. Perhaps, the Almighty had given sufficient time for your colleague to change himself, but he didn't.
Very few in this world love to bring changes in others, and there is a valid reason for doing the same.
Take my words for granted; you will grow in your professional career as you believe in a disciplined attitude and you are blessed with an ability to identify hidden talent.
Last but not least, once an employee gains the employer/superior's trust and becomes a favorite of the boss/superior, when his/her mistakes are highlighted by others, just because of the trust gained, his/her mistakes are ignored. This is happening in many organizations.
Good luck for all your future endeavors, and may the Almighty bless you always.
With profound regards,
From India, Chennai
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Kindly forgive me if I had misjudged your gender.
At the outset, I understood your mission and I want to congratulate you for trying to bring changes in your colleague. It was a tough job for you, and you played a major role. All credit goes to your courage.
It is for sure and a fact that everyone has their own patience limits. Trust me, it's not an easy job, but one requires courage and guts to initiate the process to bring even "a little changes" that can do wonders. Positive changes in one single employee can benefit many, even the organization, in many ways.
The fundamentals of an organization are associated with human values and human behavior. An organization is an entity and has no life or soul, but it is the employees (human beings) who run and manage organizations.
Well, you haven't lost anything, but you have already paid a price by making others feel that "change in your colleague was much needed." I don't know whether you feel what I felt; it is the Almighty who made you post about your colleague's attitude. Perhaps, the Almighty had given sufficient time for your colleague to change himself, but he didn't.
Very few in this world love to bring changes in others, and there is a valid reason for doing the same.
Take my words for granted; you will grow in your professional career as you believe in a disciplined attitude and you are blessed with an ability to identify hidden talent.
Last but not least, once an employee gains the employer/superior's trust and becomes a favorite of the boss/superior, when his/her mistakes are highlighted by others, just because of the trust gained, his/her mistakes are ignored. This is happening in many organizations.
Good luck for all your future endeavors, and may the Almighty bless you always.
With profound regards,
From India, Chennai
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Dear Swapnil,
Yes, if this is the case, then your colleague's behavior is bad, and he should change his attitude. You raised the query on site HR, which is not a problem at all. You should do this to get opinions of others. However, if you mention the company name and your name in the post, it may bounce back at you because top management may not like this issue to be discussed publicly since it is an internal issue. That is why many people have suggested you remove the name of the company from the post.
From India, Mumbai
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Yes, if this is the case, then your colleague's behavior is bad, and he should change his attitude. You raised the query on site HR, which is not a problem at all. You should do this to get opinions of others. However, if you mention the company name and your name in the post, it may bounce back at you because top management may not like this issue to be discussed publicly since it is an internal issue. That is why many people have suggested you remove the name of the company from the post.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear All That candidate have to submit his documents other wise this is his mistake , Manager HR can advixe but why showted.
From India
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From India
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According to me, it is nothing but the blame game.
Our friend posted only one-sided story. Why doesn't he think that it is HR's regular duty to hire and fire candidates?
If he only recruits that person and issues him an offer letter, then he would definitely not use any foul language or argue.
Secondly, your new joiner conveyed that he was excited to join that group. How can he forget to prepare himself for the same? Also, on the very first day, if he drafts such an email in a very new (according to him)/reputed company, then he will definitely have arguments in the future with the Director/CEO/Respected person, etc.
He is not following any company policies, rules, regulations, and is blaming the HR person.
HR will definitely not do this because this results in finding a new employee again and following the complete cycle.
Someone definitely told your new joiner to play a blame game against HR.
So, my gentle advice is to immediately fire such a new joiner who causes nuisances and spoils the company's name.
Regards,
Santosh Khamitkar
From India, Pune
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Our friend posted only one-sided story. Why doesn't he think that it is HR's regular duty to hire and fire candidates?
If he only recruits that person and issues him an offer letter, then he would definitely not use any foul language or argue.
Secondly, your new joiner conveyed that he was excited to join that group. How can he forget to prepare himself for the same? Also, on the very first day, if he drafts such an email in a very new (according to him)/reputed company, then he will definitely have arguments in the future with the Director/CEO/Respected person, etc.
He is not following any company policies, rules, regulations, and is blaming the HR person.
HR will definitely not do this because this results in finding a new employee again and following the complete cycle.
Someone definitely told your new joiner to play a blame game against HR.
So, my gentle advice is to immediately fire such a new joiner who causes nuisances and spoils the company's name.
Regards,
Santosh Khamitkar
From India, Pune
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How can he knew the address in a new company on the very first day & before meeting to anybody. According to me HR Visit is the first visit in any company
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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There are two aspects here.
These days, candidates take things for granted. I remember a candidate walking in with a T-shirt and an unshaven face (not a well-trimmed beard) for an interview. He never even bothered to wish good morning to the members! We are modern, but can't afford to be too modern.
Secondly, none of us know Mr. Y's version of the incident. These days, there is a lot of disrespect as well. As a general rule, for every incident, there are always two people or groups which are responsible.
Dr. Joseph Kuruvilla
CMC Vellore
From India, Kottayam
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These days, candidates take things for granted. I remember a candidate walking in with a T-shirt and an unshaven face (not a well-trimmed beard) for an interview. He never even bothered to wish good morning to the members! We are modern, but can't afford to be too modern.
Secondly, none of us know Mr. Y's version of the incident. These days, there is a lot of disrespect as well. As a general rule, for every incident, there are always two people or groups which are responsible.
Dr. Joseph Kuruvilla
CMC Vellore
From India, Kottayam
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Dear all,
Please put yourself in the shoes of the new joiner and then decide. What difference does 'not' bringing documents make? Are you going to verify the certificate? It is said that the first three months in any organization are the honeymoon period - before the employee really starts contributing. Here he is being spoken to roughly even before he has joined. Do you want him as a punching bag or as a dedicated contributor?
Regards,
From India, New Delhi
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Please put yourself in the shoes of the new joiner and then decide. What difference does 'not' bringing documents make? Are you going to verify the certificate? It is said that the first three months in any organization are the honeymoon period - before the employee really starts contributing. Here he is being spoken to roughly even before he has joined. Do you want him as a punching bag or as a dedicated contributor?
Regards,
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Friends,
I have joined a new company. In this company, there is no PF deduction. However, in my previous job, the company deducted PF. Now, I am very much interested in PF deduction from my salary. What can I do? Please suggest any ideas.
Regards,
Kumaravel.G
From India, Namakkal
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I have joined a new company. In this company, there is no PF deduction. However, in my previous job, the company deducted PF. Now, I am very much interested in PF deduction from my salary. What can I do? Please suggest any ideas.
Regards,
Kumaravel.G
From India, Namakkal
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Good Afternoon,
I would like to begin by replying to a couple of opinions posted by. I would like to make it clear that I respect their opinions, but I have a few questions.
@ngurjar - You said you are the owner of an organization and given the situation, you would know the person who has been with you better than the "newbie". You also mentioned that this is an issue of "low" importance but you will probe into things and if required, you will take action.
Now, my question is, if you know the employee who has been with your organization better than the "newbie", you would naturally be aware of the many "VERBAL" complaints that were raised against him. Then why didn't you take any "action" against him? Does this mean only because you like him, you will ignore every dirty mistake he commits? According to me, this is an issue of "HIGH" importance because when an employee wears the I.D Badge of the company, he/she automatically becomes the brand ambassador of that company. If the same employee throws ego at everybody, that shows the company in a bad light. That is my opinion, and it is up to you as to how you run your own company.
@Santosh Khamitkar - Just to remind you, even I am an HR, and I know the duties and responsibilities of being an HR. They are much more than just Hire and Fire. Any SENSIBLE HR WOULD NOT FIRE AN EMPLOYEE ON THE DAY OF HIS/HER JOINING IN ANY ORGANIZATION. BY THE WAY, WHEN DID I SAY THAT THE EMPLOYEE WAS FIRED? Answering your question as to how the employee could get the email addresses of some people in the organization on the FIRST DAY, I don't think it is such a huge issue for a SMART INDIVIDUAL. I am sure the majority of people will agree with me.
One thing I would like to say... what is the new joiner getting by sending mails like the one with which I started the forum? (S)he is hurt and hence that mail.
Good day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
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I would like to begin by replying to a couple of opinions posted by. I would like to make it clear that I respect their opinions, but I have a few questions.
@ngurjar - You said you are the owner of an organization and given the situation, you would know the person who has been with you better than the "newbie". You also mentioned that this is an issue of "low" importance but you will probe into things and if required, you will take action.
Now, my question is, if you know the employee who has been with your organization better than the "newbie", you would naturally be aware of the many "VERBAL" complaints that were raised against him. Then why didn't you take any "action" against him? Does this mean only because you like him, you will ignore every dirty mistake he commits? According to me, this is an issue of "HIGH" importance because when an employee wears the I.D Badge of the company, he/she automatically becomes the brand ambassador of that company. If the same employee throws ego at everybody, that shows the company in a bad light. That is my opinion, and it is up to you as to how you run your own company.
@Santosh Khamitkar - Just to remind you, even I am an HR, and I know the duties and responsibilities of being an HR. They are much more than just Hire and Fire. Any SENSIBLE HR WOULD NOT FIRE AN EMPLOYEE ON THE DAY OF HIS/HER JOINING IN ANY ORGANIZATION. BY THE WAY, WHEN DID I SAY THAT THE EMPLOYEE WAS FIRED? Answering your question as to how the employee could get the email addresses of some people in the organization on the FIRST DAY, I don't think it is such a huge issue for a SMART INDIVIDUAL. I am sure the majority of people will agree with me.
One thing I would like to say... what is the new joiner getting by sending mails like the one with which I started the forum? (S)he is hurt and hence that mail.
Good day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Everybody,
Having read the new employee's outburst against the HR Manager and various other views, I feel there has been a lack of maturity by both parties.
The new employee has made a mistake, yes, but not a significant one by not bringing the documents on the first day. It is very obvious that he has gone through a step-by-step selection process, in which I am sure the HR Manager played a substantial role. In fact, it would be nearly impossible to select anyone without the HR Manager's concurrence! The documents would have been checked prior to his selection. So, I feel that while the young employee has erred and should be informed about it, the HR Manager should have shown greater maturity and addressed the issue tactfully, certainly not in public!
The fact of the matter is that you are responsible for maintaining your own and your official dignity. Consider your words and actions carefully before you publicize them, and you will earn respect and admiration while accomplishing the tasks at hand!
Here's to everyone's success.
Cheers.
Colonel Gahlot
Proprietor, 'TRURECRUIT'
9810081197
From India, Delhi
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Having read the new employee's outburst against the HR Manager and various other views, I feel there has been a lack of maturity by both parties.
The new employee has made a mistake, yes, but not a significant one by not bringing the documents on the first day. It is very obvious that he has gone through a step-by-step selection process, in which I am sure the HR Manager played a substantial role. In fact, it would be nearly impossible to select anyone without the HR Manager's concurrence! The documents would have been checked prior to his selection. So, I feel that while the young employee has erred and should be informed about it, the HR Manager should have shown greater maturity and addressed the issue tactfully, certainly not in public!
The fact of the matter is that you are responsible for maintaining your own and your official dignity. Consider your words and actions carefully before you publicize them, and you will earn respect and admiration while accomplishing the tasks at hand!
Here's to everyone's success.
Cheers.
Colonel Gahlot
Proprietor, 'TRURECRUIT'
9810081197
From India, Delhi
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Hi all,
It is a very interesting case study with many twists and turns, and the players are brave and awesome.
Bravo New Joinee: Joined his new organization on the next day of his hiring without proper documents. When concerns were raised by HR (I am not considering mode here), he then sent a polite complaint email to all the stakeholders. The reason given by the new employee for not bringing the documents was a festival. The employee interviewed during the festival period, completed all exit formalities on the same day at the old organization, and was ready to join during the festival season but was unable to bring the required documents. It is strange (I assumed the employee is not a fresher because the email was well-drafted and somewhere in the email, it was mentioned that Mr. Swapnil was better than his 3-year experienced colleague in HR in all aspects).
Hiring HR Manager: With more than 3 years of experience, the new joinee was so frustrated that he wrote an email to all stakeholders on his first day. According to the email, the Hiring HR Manager has an ego issue, and no one from top management is concerned. Eventually, the issue was highlighted by an HR colleague on the internet.
Whistleblower HR Colleague: Working with the Hiring HR Manager for around 2 years, suddenly during April (appraisal time), his ethics and values were questioned. He highlighted the issue to top management by posting it transparently on the internet.
Friends, can anybody ask what is going on in this organization? Do we have something called top management in this organization?
In this case study, I see the following issues or mistakes made by the players:
1. New joinee - Joining the organization without bringing documents on the first day.
2. Hiring HR Manager - Scolding the new joinee for not bringing documents.
3. HR Colleague - Highlighting the issue to top management via the internet.
In the above points 2 and 3, the mistake is not what they did but how they did it. It's not just about the purpose; the process is also important. "Diwali par diya jalaya jata hai ghar nahi."
It will be a test for the top management on how they deal with this issue. Friends, if you were in top management, what discussion would you have?
---
I corrected the spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors in the text. I also maintained the paragraph formatting and ensured the original meaning and tone of the message remained unchanged.
From India, Hyderabad
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It is a very interesting case study with many twists and turns, and the players are brave and awesome.
Bravo New Joinee: Joined his new organization on the next day of his hiring without proper documents. When concerns were raised by HR (I am not considering mode here), he then sent a polite complaint email to all the stakeholders. The reason given by the new employee for not bringing the documents was a festival. The employee interviewed during the festival period, completed all exit formalities on the same day at the old organization, and was ready to join during the festival season but was unable to bring the required documents. It is strange (I assumed the employee is not a fresher because the email was well-drafted and somewhere in the email, it was mentioned that Mr. Swapnil was better than his 3-year experienced colleague in HR in all aspects).
Hiring HR Manager: With more than 3 years of experience, the new joinee was so frustrated that he wrote an email to all stakeholders on his first day. According to the email, the Hiring HR Manager has an ego issue, and no one from top management is concerned. Eventually, the issue was highlighted by an HR colleague on the internet.
Whistleblower HR Colleague: Working with the Hiring HR Manager for around 2 years, suddenly during April (appraisal time), his ethics and values were questioned. He highlighted the issue to top management by posting it transparently on the internet.
Friends, can anybody ask what is going on in this organization? Do we have something called top management in this organization?
In this case study, I see the following issues or mistakes made by the players:
1. New joinee - Joining the organization without bringing documents on the first day.
2. Hiring HR Manager - Scolding the new joinee for not bringing documents.
3. HR Colleague - Highlighting the issue to top management via the internet.
In the above points 2 and 3, the mistake is not what they did but how they did it. It's not just about the purpose; the process is also important. "Diwali par diya jalaya jata hai ghar nahi."
It will be a test for the top management on how they deal with this issue. Friends, if you were in top management, what discussion would you have?
---
I corrected the spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors in the text. I also maintained the paragraph formatting and ensured the original meaning and tone of the message remained unchanged.
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Siman,
"Diwali per deya jalaya jata hai ghar nahi" - It is a Hindi quote which means, during Diwali, we light lamps for celebration, wealth, and prosperity, but we do not burn our homes. Reading between the lines, it suggests that we should take reasonable actions to achieve our goals, not foolish ones.
In English, there is a similar quote: "If you have to measure the depth of the river, then never test the depth of the river with both feet."
Please note that my translation may not be perfect, so friends, please correct me if I am wrong.
From India, Hyderabad
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"Diwali per deya jalaya jata hai ghar nahi" - It is a Hindi quote which means, during Diwali, we light lamps for celebration, wealth, and prosperity, but we do not burn our homes. Reading between the lines, it suggests that we should take reasonable actions to achieve our goals, not foolish ones.
In English, there is a similar quote: "If you have to measure the depth of the river, then never test the depth of the river with both feet."
Please note that my translation may not be perfect, so friends, please correct me if I am wrong.
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Abdul,
I liked your solution.
Hi All,
I hope we have not diverted from the topic, but rather taken it to the next level where we can find various solutions for the issue. If we have missed some points, please feel free to add.
From India, Hyderabad
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I liked your solution.
Hi All,
I hope we have not diverted from the topic, but rather taken it to the next level where we can find various solutions for the issue. If we have missed some points, please feel free to add.
From India, Hyderabad
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[QUOTE=White Eagle;1527788]
Whistleblower HR Colleague: Working with Hiring HR manager for around 2 years and suddenly during April (Appraisal time), his ethics and values arose, and he highlighted the issue to top management via posting the issue transparently on the internet.
Yeah, today whistleblowers are doing a good job, but all people on this site shouted at Swapnil for posting the name of the HR manager, the name of the company, etc. What about WikiLeaks and the various scandals being brought into the light by whistleblowers, crores of scams, hawala cases, media, and we give so much attention to it, but in normal life, no one cares.
So, I guess Swapnil will need to open a website like WikiLeaks, where he can post about the cruel and egoistic HR Manager. Then one day, the HR Manager will come out of his house in the morning:
The milkman: "So, you are the HR manager who spoke rudely with the new joinee" (slap, slap) "Shame on you..."
The watchman: "So, you are the HR manager who spoke rudely with the new joinee" (slap, slap) "Get out of here..."
The security guard in the office: "Shame on you," (slap, slap)
All staff (including beautiful gals) giggling at the HR manager ("Shame on you") "Shame on you."
Ultimately, the HR manager will be admitted to the hospital and become mad.
So, whistleblowers, come on, together we can and we will make a difference. We will not keep quiet; the time has come now. Swapnil has done a really good job by exposing the wrongdoings, and as HR, it is our duty to punish the HR manager. Let us all go and (slap, slap) the HR manager for his wrongdoings...
From India, Madras
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Whistleblower HR Colleague: Working with Hiring HR manager for around 2 years and suddenly during April (Appraisal time), his ethics and values arose, and he highlighted the issue to top management via posting the issue transparently on the internet.
Yeah, today whistleblowers are doing a good job, but all people on this site shouted at Swapnil for posting the name of the HR manager, the name of the company, etc. What about WikiLeaks and the various scandals being brought into the light by whistleblowers, crores of scams, hawala cases, media, and we give so much attention to it, but in normal life, no one cares.
So, I guess Swapnil will need to open a website like WikiLeaks, where he can post about the cruel and egoistic HR Manager. Then one day, the HR Manager will come out of his house in the morning:
The milkman: "So, you are the HR manager who spoke rudely with the new joinee" (slap, slap) "Shame on you..."
The watchman: "So, you are the HR manager who spoke rudely with the new joinee" (slap, slap) "Get out of here..."
The security guard in the office: "Shame on you," (slap, slap)
All staff (including beautiful gals) giggling at the HR manager ("Shame on you") "Shame on you."
Ultimately, the HR manager will be admitted to the hospital and become mad.
So, whistleblowers, come on, together we can and we will make a difference. We will not keep quiet; the time has come now. Swapnil has done a really good job by exposing the wrongdoings, and as HR, it is our duty to punish the HR manager. Let us all go and (slap, slap) the HR manager for his wrongdoings...
From India, Madras
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Hey deadsoul You are the one who made me laugh like anything............... Please like you are the best treatment for treating stress with humour.....BEST REMEDY... With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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From India, Chennai
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Dear Eagle,
Even if we are diverted from our topic, we will definitely get back on our original track because this world is smart enough to navigate us towards our destination. Everyone has to agree with this, and it's happening.
I'm glad that we have progressed to the next level, but why is no one raising one query:
1) Why is TOP MANAGEMENT failing to educate employees to realign themselves as per CORPORATE WORK CULTURE NORMS?
2) Why is IMMEDIATE ACTION not initiated against EXPERIENCED EMPLOYEES, but it is not the same scenario with less experienced employees?
I don't think that by revealing the organization's name, one damages the organization's reputation because ORGANIZATION DOESN'T HAVE LIFE UNLIKE HUMAN BEINGS. By and large, it has helped many to understand the internal story of how TOP MANAGEMENT or EMPLOYER(s) are handling such issues, whether they are attending to the detail or IGNORING it.
Imagine if the employer or top management had educated the HR MANAGER, neither he would have behaved rudely nor would Mr. Swapnil have posted his thread.
Kindly let me know, what is the reason for one to go wrong and why one is going wrong? This query is associated with this thread, and you need to decode it to reach my perception level.
With profound regards.
From India, Chennai
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Even if we are diverted from our topic, we will definitely get back on our original track because this world is smart enough to navigate us towards our destination. Everyone has to agree with this, and it's happening.
I'm glad that we have progressed to the next level, but why is no one raising one query:
1) Why is TOP MANAGEMENT failing to educate employees to realign themselves as per CORPORATE WORK CULTURE NORMS?
2) Why is IMMEDIATE ACTION not initiated against EXPERIENCED EMPLOYEES, but it is not the same scenario with less experienced employees?
I don't think that by revealing the organization's name, one damages the organization's reputation because ORGANIZATION DOESN'T HAVE LIFE UNLIKE HUMAN BEINGS. By and large, it has helped many to understand the internal story of how TOP MANAGEMENT or EMPLOYER(s) are handling such issues, whether they are attending to the detail or IGNORING it.
Imagine if the employer or top management had educated the HR MANAGER, neither he would have behaved rudely nor would Mr. Swapnil have posted his thread.
Kindly let me know, what is the reason for one to go wrong and why one is going wrong? This query is associated with this thread, and you need to decode it to reach my perception level.
With profound regards.
From India, Chennai
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Swapnil,
This would be of high importance if it stops my basic business proposition to my customer or client. At this stage, it isn't.
Like I said, I would probe into it. In my organization, we are very disciplined. We don't entertain people coming in for meetings without being prepared for the agenda (and I mean real well prepared). We also don't like people taking rules too casually. And we never allow people to talk through their hats when discussing work!
The newbie is probably right about the behavior, and apparently, and I never denied corrective action. But is it such an issue? I don't think so. From what I gather, this is some software company and not a skill development center.
The Hiring Manager, for me, is someone who has committed to provide me with a resource on a specific date. If he hasn't got the guy joined, he has failed his target. So, his pressing on the formalities is understandable. At the same time, if the person wanting to join is not prepared for it, he is also not appreciating his 'fitment criteria' in the organization.
There is no need to overreact. Its strictly business.
Now coming to bad conduct. At times people are sensitive. Hence, it would be better to talk it out to the manager and see. If it DOESN'T GET RESOLVED, only then involve the stakeholders. For I would first call both the guys and hear their stories. If the issue isn't resolved, then I might call for a formal inquiry. But before I take any action, my first question would be to the newbie: Did you tell him about this? What was the reaction? What do you expect the reaction to be (assuming it was unsatisfactory)? And after these questions, I would look at the plan of action given above.
Remember, as HR, you need to understand your business perspective. Its easy to fire people, and easy to hire as well. But it makes sense to understand the business driver before we take drastic measures.
Hope I answered your question dost.
From United States, Daphne
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This would be of high importance if it stops my basic business proposition to my customer or client. At this stage, it isn't.
Like I said, I would probe into it. In my organization, we are very disciplined. We don't entertain people coming in for meetings without being prepared for the agenda (and I mean real well prepared). We also don't like people taking rules too casually. And we never allow people to talk through their hats when discussing work!
The newbie is probably right about the behavior, and apparently, and I never denied corrective action. But is it such an issue? I don't think so. From what I gather, this is some software company and not a skill development center.
The Hiring Manager, for me, is someone who has committed to provide me with a resource on a specific date. If he hasn't got the guy joined, he has failed his target. So, his pressing on the formalities is understandable. At the same time, if the person wanting to join is not prepared for it, he is also not appreciating his 'fitment criteria' in the organization.
There is no need to overreact. Its strictly business.
Now coming to bad conduct. At times people are sensitive. Hence, it would be better to talk it out to the manager and see. If it DOESN'T GET RESOLVED, only then involve the stakeholders. For I would first call both the guys and hear their stories. If the issue isn't resolved, then I might call for a formal inquiry. But before I take any action, my first question would be to the newbie: Did you tell him about this? What was the reaction? What do you expect the reaction to be (assuming it was unsatisfactory)? And after these questions, I would look at the plan of action given above.
Remember, as HR, you need to understand your business perspective. Its easy to fire people, and easy to hire as well. But it makes sense to understand the business driver before we take drastic measures.
Hope I answered your question dost.
From United States, Daphne
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Dear members,
I appreciate the way you have replied to the query. My advice to Swapnil, which I have mentioned earlier, is that if you want a solution to a problem, you need to accept both views on the posted thread. Therefore, we must be ready to accept opinions in a positive manner, whether you agree or disagree.
Regards,
Amit
From India, Delhi
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I appreciate the way you have replied to the query. My advice to Swapnil, which I have mentioned earlier, is that if you want a solution to a problem, you need to accept both views on the posted thread. Therefore, we must be ready to accept opinions in a positive manner, whether you agree or disagree.
Regards,
Amit
From India, Delhi
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Really interesting case study for an HR professional. As an HR professional, let us assess ourselves and avoid conflict and misjudgments. Usually, an HR professional selected goes through tough psychological tests; otherwise, failure will be the result for the organization. There is a lack of evidence to judge either the new joiner or the HR friend. But unprofessionalism by way of publishing a thing or story is seen here. Okay, let us judge ourselves and do good to ourselves to avoid failure. Regards.
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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I very much agree with what was initiated by ngurjar. We haven't heard the other side of the story. And yeah, not bringing the documents still remains a mistake. So it was not required for the candidate to be so loud to write a mail directly to HR. When you have made a mistake, have a little tolerance of handling the results of it.
Anyhow, there might be a case that the new joinee wasn't liked by the HR and yet was brought to the company? The candidate cannot change the biases of that HR person. Even if he joins the company today, he will have to face the sarcasms of the HR, and writing such a mail will simply worsen the situation! If venting out frustrations was the only thing that he was looking for, he could have spoken or, in fact, written a mail to someone of a junior position. This might just have cushioned the blow!
From India, Delhi
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Anyhow, there might be a case that the new joinee wasn't liked by the HR and yet was brought to the company? The candidate cannot change the biases of that HR person. Even if he joins the company today, he will have to face the sarcasms of the HR, and writing such a mail will simply worsen the situation! If venting out frustrations was the only thing that he was looking for, he could have spoken or, in fact, written a mail to someone of a junior position. This might just have cushioned the blow!
From India, Delhi
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