Dear All, please guide me can we terminate an employee without notice period in case of Probation ????
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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When you ask for an opinion from a senior, please take care to discuss the matter briefly.
Reason for Termination Without Notice Period
What is the reason for termination without a notice period? What's good in kicking off someone like this? Are you an HR person?
From India, Mumbai
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49Reason for Termination Without Notice Period
What is the reason for termination without a notice period? What's good in kicking off someone like this? Are you an HR person?
From India, Mumbai
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Sorry, ma'am,
Yes, I have recently taken on the role of HR Executive. This is why I am asking, as I am very new to this field and have no experience in it.
Regarding the question "Can we terminate an employee without a notice period in the case of probation?" Today, my boss terminated an employee who had joined on February 1, 2011, as a Service Engineer and was in a training cum probation period. The reason for his termination was the negative feedback from his senior. Throughout the whole month, he did not acquire any knowledge related to the training provided by his seniors in the field.
I tried to discuss this with him last week, and he mentioned that his seniors were providing incorrect feedback. He claimed to have learned everything and requested to be sent alone to resolve field issues with customers. However, after attempting this, the site was left in disarray, and the customer called back angrily, stating, "Don't ever send this person."
Even after this incident, he continued to assert that he had learned everything and that his seniors were providing false feedback. I would like to clarify that these seniors have been with the organization for many years and have trained numerous other juniors.
So, my director made the decision to ask for his resignation. The employee requested a notice period, but we declined, stating that he was still in the probation period, and hence, we were not obligated to provide a notice period.
My concern here is, even though the reason for the termination was valid, should we have given him a notice period?
Please provide guidance on this matter.
Thank you,
Regards,
Chaitali Purohit
From India, Mumbai
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Yes, I have recently taken on the role of HR Executive. This is why I am asking, as I am very new to this field and have no experience in it.
Regarding the question "Can we terminate an employee without a notice period in the case of probation?" Today, my boss terminated an employee who had joined on February 1, 2011, as a Service Engineer and was in a training cum probation period. The reason for his termination was the negative feedback from his senior. Throughout the whole month, he did not acquire any knowledge related to the training provided by his seniors in the field.
I tried to discuss this with him last week, and he mentioned that his seniors were providing incorrect feedback. He claimed to have learned everything and requested to be sent alone to resolve field issues with customers. However, after attempting this, the site was left in disarray, and the customer called back angrily, stating, "Don't ever send this person."
Even after this incident, he continued to assert that he had learned everything and that his seniors were providing false feedback. I would like to clarify that these seniors have been with the organization for many years and have trained numerous other juniors.
So, my director made the decision to ask for his resignation. The employee requested a notice period, but we declined, stating that he was still in the probation period, and hence, we were not obligated to provide a notice period.
My concern here is, even though the reason for the termination was valid, should we have given him a notice period?
Please provide guidance on this matter.
Thank you,
Regards,
Chaitali Purohit
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Chaitali,
You have to check in his appointment letter what clauses are mentioned there. If you have this clause that during probation the notice is given by the employer or employee, then you should. Other than that, if the clause mentions non-performance and therefore resulting in termination, then you can terminate the employee based on feedback from his seniors and the customer.
Now, in this case, even if he thinks that seniors are giving wrong feedback, I don't think any customer will do the same. As you have narrated this incident here that the customer was shouting and asked not to ever send him back.
So just go through the letter first, and then we can discuss it once you come back with your views.
Regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
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You have to check in his appointment letter what clauses are mentioned there. If you have this clause that during probation the notice is given by the employer or employee, then you should. Other than that, if the clause mentions non-performance and therefore resulting in termination, then you can terminate the employee based on feedback from his seniors and the customer.
Now, in this case, even if he thinks that seniors are giving wrong feedback, I don't think any customer will do the same. As you have narrated this incident here that the customer was shouting and asked not to ever send him back.
So just go through the letter first, and then we can discuss it once you come back with your views.
Regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for your reply. There has been no mention of termination. We stated that the employee should provide one month's notice period, but we did not specify anything about termination or forced resignation.
Regards,
Chaitali Purohit
From India, Mumbai
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Regards,
Chaitali Purohit
From India, Mumbai
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Forced resignation is actually used to prevent terminations. Getting terminated is a blot on one's career. Generally, during probation, the notice period is shorter. It is entirely up to you to release him within a day once he submits the resignation.
Inform him that it is beneficial for him that you are not terminating him, so he should resign and seek opportunities elsewhere. If he continues to stay in the organization, there is a risk that he will speak negatively and create a hostile atmosphere.
Regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
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Inform him that it is beneficial for him that you are not terminating him, so he should resign and seek opportunities elsewhere. If he continues to stay in the organization, there is a risk that he will speak negatively and create a hostile atmosphere.
Regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
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Probation period is just like a training period and there is no notice period. If in the offer letter or appointment letter they are mentioning a notice period, you and the employer have to follow it. As per your statement, there is no such type of narration in the appointment letter, so in a single day, an employee or employer can resign/terminate jobs. It would be better if you resign from the job because you can get an experience letter, which will have a positive impact on your career rather than termination. You can also refer to the standing order of your organization.
Best Regards,
Lakhan Trivedi
Sr. HR Manager.
From India, Khopoli
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Best Regards,
Lakhan Trivedi
Sr. HR Manager.
From India, Khopoli
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Hi! I just went through the discussion. I wanted to confirm, even though it's a termination, do they still need to pay the employee the notice pay, right? I would appreciate your views on the same.
Thanks
From India, Mumbai
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Thanks
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Friends,
Most of the friends are interpreted in one way correctly, but some courts are saying that even in the probation period, notice should be served before terminating the candidate. "PROBATION PERIOD" is not just a leave; the period is about understanding the job responsibilities' environments between the candidate and the management. Until the candidate is perfectly suitable for the job requirements, either side may issue a one-month notice genuinely. Anyhow, please see the attached article which may clarify your doubts. Please go through it.
Regards,
PBS KUMAR
From India, Kakinada
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Most of the friends are interpreted in one way correctly, but some courts are saying that even in the probation period, notice should be served before terminating the candidate. "PROBATION PERIOD" is not just a leave; the period is about understanding the job responsibilities' environments between the candidate and the management. Until the candidate is perfectly suitable for the job requirements, either side may issue a one-month notice genuinely. Anyhow, please see the attached article which may clarify your doubts. Please go through it.
Regards,
PBS KUMAR
From India, Kakinada
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It's more of moral ethics than just norms. If your company has affordability, then you have a moral responsibility of giving notice. If word spreads out saying that this particular company terminates without giving notice, then people tend to stay away from your organization, and eventually, you will face problems during recruitment.
Regards,
Siva Prasad
Sr. HR Manager
From India, Hyderabad
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Regards,
Siva Prasad
Sr. HR Manager
From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you all for your views. Can anyone now guide me on how long the notice period should be? Also, what should be done to prevent that employee from spoiling the background and not giving any wrong impression to his co-members during this notice period?
Regards,
Chaitali Purohit
From India, Mumbai
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Regards,
Chaitali Purohit
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Purohit ji, The comming up ammendment of Factories Act, 90 days is enough for consideration of the permanent position. So It should be 3 months better. Regards, PBS KUMAR
From India, Kakinada
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From India, Kakinada
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Dear Chaitali,
Think in terms of a voluntary separation of an employee during probation. What if someone is doing well and has taken on all the tasks as per the supervisors' benchmark but is still a probationer? If he/she wants to resign, how many days before would you or your managers like to be informed so that an effective replacement can be arranged - 3 days, 15 days, 30 days, or even 45 days?
Usually, someone is asked to resign during probation only if the person cannot be a good asset to the company. In such cases, the notice period should not be too long, but it should also not be too short that there is no time to find a replacement. However, a notice period is essential for probationers as both the employee and the employer need time to find a new source.
Once it is mentioned in the appointment terms and conditions, if the employer wants a forced resignation, they can pay the employee in lieu of the notice period, and he/she can be asked to leave immediately.
I hope this information helps you.
Regards,
Nishu
From India, New Delhi
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Think in terms of a voluntary separation of an employee during probation. What if someone is doing well and has taken on all the tasks as per the supervisors' benchmark but is still a probationer? If he/she wants to resign, how many days before would you or your managers like to be informed so that an effective replacement can be arranged - 3 days, 15 days, 30 days, or even 45 days?
Usually, someone is asked to resign during probation only if the person cannot be a good asset to the company. In such cases, the notice period should not be too long, but it should also not be too short that there is no time to find a replacement. However, a notice period is essential for probationers as both the employee and the employer need time to find a new source.
Once it is mentioned in the appointment terms and conditions, if the employer wants a forced resignation, they can pay the employee in lieu of the notice period, and he/she can be asked to leave immediately.
I hope this information helps you.
Regards,
Nishu
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Chaitali,
Your question was rightly answered by Archna. However, I support the views expressed by Siva Prasad. Moreover, you cannot supersede the decision taken by your boss - but you could have suggested to pay him notice pay to help him manage at least one month. Who knows, he might have a family, and it could be his only source of income.
From India, Jaipur
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Your question was rightly answered by Archna. However, I support the views expressed by Siva Prasad. Moreover, you cannot supersede the decision taken by your boss - but you could have suggested to pay him notice pay to help him manage at least one month. Who knows, he might have a family, and it could be his only source of income.
From India, Jaipur
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the service in probation period can be terminated with giving any notice. it’s a set principle of law and it has been held by Hon’ble Supreme Court & High Courts.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Yes, I believe it is only fair to give some notice period before termination. Importantly, the impact is definitely not positive in the market in case of zero notice period on the organization's reputation.
Explaining the necessity of resigning to the concerned employee would be a good and effective approach. Termination is a kind of blotch on his profile that needs to be explained to him.
All the best!
From India, Mumbai
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Explaining the necessity of resigning to the concerned employee would be a good and effective approach. Termination is a kind of blotch on his profile that needs to be explained to him.
All the best!
From India, Mumbai
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Yes. We can terminate the employee. In the appointment if you have mentioned (The company reserves the right to terminate you during the probation period also)
From India, Coimbatore
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From India, Coimbatore
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Dear All, Greetings for the day. My query is: what are the salary-related rules and policies during the probation period? Is it possible for an employer to not contribute to ESI and PF facilities for an employee on probation for their one-year probation period? After confirmation, the employee will be registered for these benefits.
Warm Regards,
Deepak Agarwal
From India
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Warm Regards,
Deepak Agarwal
From India
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Dear All,
Please be clear, probation, permanent, badli, temporary - all these are categories of employees. They do not exclude or exempt any employer from the applicability of social legislations like ESI, PF, etc. Whether it is a probationer or a daily wager, they shall be entitled to ESI and PF benefits.
Warm Regards,
Deepak Agarwal
From India, Delhi
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Please be clear, probation, permanent, badli, temporary - all these are categories of employees. They do not exclude or exempt any employer from the applicability of social legislations like ESI, PF, etc. Whether it is a probationer or a daily wager, they shall be entitled to ESI and PF benefits.
Warm Regards,
Deepak Agarwal
From India, Delhi
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Hi Friends, it makes no sense to give a notice period to an employee on "Probation Period." The term itself is self-explanatory. The employee should know that they are on probation. What about cases of misconduct from the employee during probation? Why should employers bear the cost? When we talk about moral ethics, isn't the employee somewhat responsible for moral ethics, at least during probation?
Regards,
AdChetan
From India, Vadodara
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Regards,
AdChetan
From India, Vadodara
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Employee Categories and Social Legislation Compliance
Please be clear, probation, permanent, badli, and temporary are all categories of employees. They do not exclude or exempt any employer from the applicability of social legislations like ESI and PF. Whether it is a probationer or a daily wage worker, they shall be entitled to ESI and PF benefits.
Thanks for your guidance.
Exemption from ESI & PF Compliance
Is there any legal way or act through which an employer is exempt from contributing to ESI & PF compliance? Sometimes, it becomes a cost burden when employees (at the labor level) leave the job without informing, only after two or three months of joining.
With Best Regards,
Deepak Agarwal
From India
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Please be clear, probation, permanent, badli, and temporary are all categories of employees. They do not exclude or exempt any employer from the applicability of social legislations like ESI and PF. Whether it is a probationer or a daily wage worker, they shall be entitled to ESI and PF benefits.
Thanks for your guidance.
Exemption from ESI & PF Compliance
Is there any legal way or act through which an employer is exempt from contributing to ESI & PF compliance? Sometimes, it becomes a cost burden when employees (at the labor level) leave the job without informing, only after two or three months of joining.
With Best Regards,
Deepak Agarwal
From India
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Applicability of Industrial Standing Orders
Under Section 38B of the Bombay Shops and Establishments Act, the provisions of industrial standing orders are applicable to establishments where 50 or more employees are employed.
Probation Period Notice Requirements
For probationers, the service period should not exceed 3 months, meaning that only up to three months of service requires no notice to be given. Subsequently, the notice period as per the Act must be adhered to.
Thank you
From India, New Delhi
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Under Section 38B of the Bombay Shops and Establishments Act, the provisions of industrial standing orders are applicable to establishments where 50 or more employees are employed.
Probation Period Notice Requirements
For probationers, the service period should not exceed 3 months, meaning that only up to three months of service requires no notice to be given. Subsequently, the notice period as per the Act must be adhered to.
Thank you
From India, New Delhi
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In order to be more precise, the number of workmen working as per the definition of a factory under Section 2(m) is ten or more in premises where manufacturing is done with the aid of power. Therefore, the provisions of model standing orders are applicable to factories. Hence, no notice period for a probationer up to three months is required.
Thanks,
Sushil
From India, New Delhi
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Thanks,
Sushil
From India, New Delhi
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