Dear All, One of our employees comes late on a daily basis despite various verbal and written warnings. On top of that, he is quite argumentative, which makes things a bit more difficult. Being a good salesperson, we can't afford to lose him. What can be done in such a case?
Policy Overview
To provide a better understanding of the case, let me brief you on the policy we follow. We allow three short leaves in a month, meaning an employee can come late thrice in a month by half an hour. However, after that, every short leave is considered as a half day.
I would appreciate your views to resolve this issue.
Thanks,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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6Policy Overview
To provide a better understanding of the case, let me brief you on the policy we follow. We allow three short leaves in a month, meaning an employee can come late thrice in a month by half an hour. However, after that, every short leave is considered as a half day.
I would appreciate your views to resolve this issue.
Thanks,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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Respected Madam,
Ms. Shradha,
Since you have, on several occasions, warned him in writing and orally, now is the time to issue him a show cause notice calling upon him why disciplinary action should not be taken against you for your habitual late coming and argumentative behavior. Based on his reply, you will have to initiate an inquiry against him.
The above are my views; perhaps this will help you.
Regards,
UMESH KAPOOR
From India, Mumbai
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Ms. Shradha,
Since you have, on several occasions, warned him in writing and orally, now is the time to issue him a show cause notice calling upon him why disciplinary action should not be taken against you for your habitual late coming and argumentative behavior. Based on his reply, you will have to initiate an inquiry against him.
The above are my views; perhaps this will help you.
Regards,
UMESH KAPOOR
From India, Mumbai
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Comment on the First Paragraph
I would like to comment on the first paragraph of your post. The reply to the second paragraph is based on the Payment of Wages Act. Experts in this field will reply to this paragraph.
You have written, "[i]Being a good salesperson, we can't afford to lose him." The catch lies here. He has well understood that because of his salesmanship, the organization cannot afford to lose him. Hence his peremptoriness.
Options for Addressing Indiscipline
You have two options now. One is to maintain the status quo. If you do that, you will be pampering indiscipline. It will become difficult for you to take disciplinary action against other delinquent employees. Ignoring his indiscipline would mean a long-term impact on the organization's culture as a whole.
The other option is to implement progressive discipline. Do not hesitate to terminate if required. If you do this, you will send a signal to one and all that there cannot be a trade-off between the performance of higher order and indiscipline. People may come and go, but the discipline in the organization remains. Discipline is an organizational value, and it has to be cherished at any cost.
Discuss this issue with your management. For the second option, the logical conclusion is the termination of the employee. Make sure that your management does not get cold feet at the last stage.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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I would like to comment on the first paragraph of your post. The reply to the second paragraph is based on the Payment of Wages Act. Experts in this field will reply to this paragraph.
You have written, "[i]Being a good salesperson, we can't afford to lose him." The catch lies here. He has well understood that because of his salesmanship, the organization cannot afford to lose him. Hence his peremptoriness.
Options for Addressing Indiscipline
You have two options now. One is to maintain the status quo. If you do that, you will be pampering indiscipline. It will become difficult for you to take disciplinary action against other delinquent employees. Ignoring his indiscipline would mean a long-term impact on the organization's culture as a whole.
The other option is to implement progressive discipline. Do not hesitate to terminate if required. If you do this, you will send a signal to one and all that there cannot be a trade-off between the performance of higher order and indiscipline. People may come and go, but the discipline in the organization remains. Discipline is an organizational value, and it has to be cherished at any cost.
Discuss this issue with your management. For the second option, the logical conclusion is the termination of the employee. Make sure that your management does not get cold feet at the last stage.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Umesh and Dinesh have given you excellent suggestions. Hence, let me ask you a few questions to clarify the scenario. How large is your organization? How large is the sales force? Have you implemented the penalty policy and deducted half a day's salary/wages when the salesperson has come late? Have you or his boss discussed why he comes late? Does he stay late also to finish the work? Have you considered introducing flexi-time working? If not, why not? I can keep on raising questions, but these will suffice for the time being. These should give you some idea of the extent of detail required to get precise advice.
From United Kingdom
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From United Kingdom
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Dear Shradha,
Dinesh has given a very good suggestion. At the cost of the discipline in the industry, you cannot continue with a person even though his performance is excellent. Despite many opportunities given, if there is no improvement, you have to make a final decision and take severe disciplinary action by issuing a charge sheet/show-cause notice and conducting an enquiry, which will send a clear signal to the other employees.
GIRI
From India, Hyderabad
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Dinesh has given a very good suggestion. At the cost of the discipline in the industry, you cannot continue with a person even though his performance is excellent. Despite many opportunities given, if there is no improvement, you have to make a final decision and take severe disciplinary action by issuing a charge sheet/show-cause notice and conducting an enquiry, which will send a clear signal to the other employees.
GIRI
From India, Hyderabad
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@ Dinesh, exactly. I totally agree with him. In fact, I was about to write the same thing. Once the person is aware that you have already tagged him as a good salesperson and he is fully taking undue advantage, it's better to give him a written warning three times. If he still continues the same behavior, then it's better to terminate him.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Though excellent views have been provided by Mr. Dinesh and Mr. Giri, I would like to add a few more suggestions which will help you implement the aforementioned ideas on practical and legal grounds.
Communication of Leave Policy
It is important that the Leave Policy, as described by you, be communicated to each and every individual in the organization. If this has not been done yet, please share the same through email, Standing Order, or the company intranet.
Implementation and Monitoring
Please calculate the number of late days retroactively, deduct appropriate half-days for all employees, and inform them of these deductions in the next payslip or through email to check the updated leave status on the company intranet.
Uniform Application of Policy
It is crucial that this policy is applied uniformly to all employees to avoid potential complaints to the Labor Office regarding targeted implementation.
While I generally do not advocate for deductions from employee remuneration, in your case, it appears to be a necessary measure. As an HR professional, it is your responsibility to strike a balance between employee remuneration and the organization's values, ethics, and discipline.
Remember, no player is bigger than the "GAME." Players come and go, but the game continues in each stage.
Failure to address this issue may create a negative impression on other "EXCELLENT" employees and could potentially erode the company's culture and values.
As always, I recommend seeking prior approval from Management, especially the Marketing department's Head, before taking any significant actions.
Thank you.
Best regards
From India, Delhi
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Communication of Leave Policy
It is important that the Leave Policy, as described by you, be communicated to each and every individual in the organization. If this has not been done yet, please share the same through email, Standing Order, or the company intranet.
Implementation and Monitoring
Please calculate the number of late days retroactively, deduct appropriate half-days for all employees, and inform them of these deductions in the next payslip or through email to check the updated leave status on the company intranet.
Uniform Application of Policy
It is crucial that this policy is applied uniformly to all employees to avoid potential complaints to the Labor Office regarding targeted implementation.
While I generally do not advocate for deductions from employee remuneration, in your case, it appears to be a necessary measure. As an HR professional, it is your responsibility to strike a balance between employee remuneration and the organization's values, ethics, and discipline.
Remember, no player is bigger than the "GAME." Players come and go, but the game continues in each stage.
Failure to address this issue may create a negative impression on other "EXCELLENT" employees and could potentially erode the company's culture and values.
As always, I recommend seeking prior approval from Management, especially the Marketing department's Head, before taking any significant actions.
Thank you.
Best regards
From India, Delhi
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Mr. Divekar has rightly suggested the implementation of progressive discipline, which for any other department is always the correct way. However, I have a slightly different view on the timing policy for the sales team members or field staff. I feel we should try to give them some flexibility with respect to the in-time. I am not saying you should encourage indiscipline, but many times we see that sales members have to attend calls at all hours depending on the convenience of the customers or clients. Sometimes, they even attend calls on weekends and other holidays if it suits the customers.
Discussion with Sales Team Members
Have a general discussion with your sales team members and find out about the hours they are normally putting in. After the discussion, if you feel that they are genuinely attending to business calls in the evenings, holidays, and weekends, talk to your management and propose a flexible time for your sales team.
Regards,
Vineeta
From India, Mumbai
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Discussion with Sales Team Members
Have a general discussion with your sales team members and find out about the hours they are normally putting in. After the discussion, if you feel that they are genuinely attending to business calls in the evenings, holidays, and weekends, talk to your management and propose a flexible time for your sales team.
Regards,
Vineeta
From India, Mumbai
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Talk to ur management for introducing flexi timing .It does not matter as long he is able to achieve targets .many companies have introduced this concept of flexi -timings
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Since you are a good worker, you should call him and discuss the issue in detail. Explain to him that this habit of his sends the wrong signals among other employees and disrupts the decorum. In every work environment, two factors play a crucial role - dedication and behavior. Therefore, to maintain complete discipline, he should be given some leeway due to his good sales performance, but this should not negatively impact others. If he is unwilling to change his attitude, you may need to take administrative action in line with the prevailing norms of your company.
From India, Lucknow
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From India, Lucknow
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Dear all,
Thank you for your suggestions. Termination is not the right solution in my opinion. The reason is that our sales team consists of 15 members, and he is one of the high performers. I have already sent him an email today regarding a final notice. Additionally, I have assigned him the responsibility of managing the attendance of his team.
I hope this approach will be effective. I would appreciate any suggestions you may have apart from termination.
Thank you,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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Thank you for your suggestions. Termination is not the right solution in my opinion. The reason is that our sales team consists of 15 members, and he is one of the high performers. I have already sent him an email today regarding a final notice. Additionally, I have assigned him the responsibility of managing the attendance of his team.
I hope this approach will be effective. I would appreciate any suggestions you may have apart from termination.
Thank you,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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So far, people have given excellent views, and I even agree with them. I would like to add on to it. Play the perfect HR role; be diplomatic. Give him a show-cause notice and ask for an explanation. In the background, talk to him, telling him that his casual attitude is affecting his team. His team members keep roaming here and there, disrupting the organizational culture and environment. It is only when he is around that his teammates start working. Also, tell him that you are very much upset with this and need his help. Tell him that if he comes to the office on time, his team members will also start working on time. Also, convince him not to take anything negatively; it's just that we want to set an example for others. Tell him that we are doing this to make employees aware that even being such a good performer, the company does not spare anybody. Hope he will understand and might not argue.
Role of HR in Employee Management
Being HR, our first role is to make employees our partner and then move ahead.
Hope this works out for you. All the best.
Warm Regards,
Abhinav
From India, New Delhi
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Role of HR in Employee Management
Being HR, our first role is to make employees our partner and then move ahead.
Hope this works out for you. All the best.
Warm Regards,
Abhinav
From India, New Delhi
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Flexibility in Organizational Policies
I would like to differ with all other members. Rigid policies of any organization always play a negative role and hamper the productivity not only of the employees but also of the organization. Flexibility on a selective basis is never harmful. My belief is that any employee is not inherently a bad worker, but their boss may compel them to perform poorly. For others, if they attempt to follow the trend of a consistently late-coming employee, you may set standards of output equivalent to that of the latecomer, if they are a good performer.
Exploring Alternatives for Late Arrivals
Consider exploring other alternatives as well. Inquire about the real cause of the late arrivals, understand any personal issues, and act as a solution provider, guide, and counselor. Adjust the employee's duty hours, split up their duties, or change their area of activities to accommodate their needs. It is crucial to find a balance between discipline and performance for enhanced productivity.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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I would like to differ with all other members. Rigid policies of any organization always play a negative role and hamper the productivity not only of the employees but also of the organization. Flexibility on a selective basis is never harmful. My belief is that any employee is not inherently a bad worker, but their boss may compel them to perform poorly. For others, if they attempt to follow the trend of a consistently late-coming employee, you may set standards of output equivalent to that of the latecomer, if they are a good performer.
Exploring Alternatives for Late Arrivals
Consider exploring other alternatives as well. Inquire about the real cause of the late arrivals, understand any personal issues, and act as a solution provider, guide, and counselor. Adjust the employee's duty hours, split up their duties, or change their area of activities to accommodate their needs. It is crucial to find a balance between discipline and performance for enhanced productivity.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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I am rather surprised to note that Shradha has not answered questions raised to fully appreciate the scenario. In the absence of such information, the suggestions/comments can only be based on guesswork.
For example, Abhinav suggests that Shradha tell the concerned salesperson that his colleagues keep roaming here and there. Is there any evidence of that in Shradha's post?
From United Kingdom
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For example, Abhinav suggests that Shradha tell the concerned salesperson that his colleagues keep roaming here and there. Is there any evidence of that in Shradha's post?
From United Kingdom
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I would like to acknowledge the different insights; they are good ideas. If this employee is in sales, I believe as an HR professional, you have to examine your existing company policies. I am working in manufacturing and retail sales distribution. Implementation of our time in and out differs depending on where certain employees are assigned. For salespeople, we exercise full flexibility of their time because we expect that, as salespeople, they go out from the office from time to time and even entertain calls on weekends and non-office hours. We are focused on their sales performance. Considering that they belong to the results-based employees, they are governed by different work schedules compared to the people in manufacturing and the support group.
How to Deal with His Attitude?
I have been dealing with a lot of personal reactions when we implement company policies, but nevertheless, I have learned the art of proper communication of policies. When we reprimand employees for company policy violations, they react. I would suggest talking directly to the person, letting him understand your policy. Understand his side, and if you think you can help in some ways, assure him that you will do your best to mediate with management. Try to find alternative solutions to this problem, like introducing flexi-time with management, but warn him that if your proposition does not yield positive results, then you need to reach an agreement with him that he is bound to follow your existing rules.
From Philippines, Mandaue City
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How to Deal with His Attitude?
I have been dealing with a lot of personal reactions when we implement company policies, but nevertheless, I have learned the art of proper communication of policies. When we reprimand employees for company policy violations, they react. I would suggest talking directly to the person, letting him understand your policy. Understand his side, and if you think you can help in some ways, assure him that you will do your best to mediate with management. Try to find alternative solutions to this problem, like introducing flexi-time with management, but warn him that if your proposition does not yield positive results, then you need to reach an agreement with him that he is bound to follow your existing rules.
From Philippines, Mandaue City
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Dear all,
Thank you for your valuable time and suggestions. As per your guidance, I sent him an email of the Last and Final Notice, notifying:
a) Deductions as per the company policies.
b) How his unprofessional behavior is dismantling the decorum and affecting the morale and performance of the team.
In addition, I had a one-on-one discussion regarding the same to decipher the reasons for his lateness. Let's hope this works.
Thanks,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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Thank you for your valuable time and suggestions. As per your guidance, I sent him an email of the Last and Final Notice, notifying:
a) Deductions as per the company policies.
b) How his unprofessional behavior is dismantling the decorum and affecting the morale and performance of the team.
In addition, I had a one-on-one discussion regarding the same to decipher the reasons for his lateness. Let's hope this works.
Thanks,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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Dear Shradha,
The other aspect is about your role. If you are maintaining the Discipline & Culture of the Company - then you will be at fault for not performing your responsibility and not any employee. As suggested by others, once the message goes that no aberrations are tolerated in your Organization, everybody will fall in line. And this is my experience.
Regards,
- Abdul Quadir Awate
From India, Pune
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The other aspect is about your role. If you are maintaining the Discipline & Culture of the Company - then you will be at fault for not performing your responsibility and not any employee. As suggested by others, once the message goes that no aberrations are tolerated in your Organization, everybody will fall in line. And this is my experience.
Regards,
- Abdul Quadir Awate
From India, Pune
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Dear Shradha Madam, All the members have provided their valuable suggestions and advice in the thread, with a particularly impressive contribution from Mr. Dinesh Devikar, who has clearly explained the facts. I too fully agree with him. Just like a door serves for both entry and exit, an organization should not depend on one individual. It is a misconception that due to his strong salesmanship, you are reluctant to let him go. This is incorrect. As an HR professional, you should make firm decisions when it comes to discipline, without any compromises. Since you have considered the opinions of the members, I will not add confusion but urge you to maintain strict discipline within the organization. Anyone who violates the disciplinary rules should face proceedings without any leniency.
Regards,
Adoni Suguresh
From India, Bidar
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Regards,
Adoni Suguresh
From India, Bidar
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Addressing everyone point by point:
1. Termination
- We can't terminate him since:
- Our organization is small, with an employee strength of 50.
- We are generating good business because of him.
- The higher management is not willing to lose him.
2. Flexible Timings
Since we deal in the international market, our work hours are quite early, i.e., 7 am to 4 pm. If someone comes late by an hour and works until 5 or 5:30, it is completely useless as that person won't be able to catch hold of the Marketing Head or the concerned person. According to their time zone, it's their knocking-off time (5:30 pm in India = 7:30 pm in Singapore, Malaysia, etc).
3. Being Diplomatic with the Person
We tried that approach, but it didn't work.
4. Face-to-Face Discussion
We did that thrice, but he keeps giving lame excuses for coming late. After yesterday's email, he came on time today.
Hope this gives you a clear picture! I would appreciate your thoughts.
Regards,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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1. Termination
- We can't terminate him since:
- Our organization is small, with an employee strength of 50.
- We are generating good business because of him.
- The higher management is not willing to lose him.
2. Flexible Timings
Since we deal in the international market, our work hours are quite early, i.e., 7 am to 4 pm. If someone comes late by an hour and works until 5 or 5:30, it is completely useless as that person won't be able to catch hold of the Marketing Head or the concerned person. According to their time zone, it's their knocking-off time (5:30 pm in India = 7:30 pm in Singapore, Malaysia, etc).
3. Being Diplomatic with the Person
We tried that approach, but it didn't work.
4. Face-to-Face Discussion
We did that thrice, but he keeps giving lame excuses for coming late. After yesterday's email, he came on time today.
Hope this gives you a clear picture! I would appreciate your thoughts.
Regards,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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Sorry, Shradha, for asking more questions. How old is the organization, and how long has the salesperson been with the company? Has he started coming late recently, or has he been doing so from the start?
I am rather surprised to note that if someone works past the finishing time, he can't be more productive. For example, I am sure he can do paperwork that he could not do during normal hours, and he could plan for the next day's work. As we are not fully knowledgeable about the nature of his work, we have to base it on assumptions.
My tutor had spelled "assume" as "ASS U ME" and explained that when our assumptions are wrong, we "Make an ASS out of YOU and ME".
From United Kingdom
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I am rather surprised to note that if someone works past the finishing time, he can't be more productive. For example, I am sure he can do paperwork that he could not do during normal hours, and he could plan for the next day's work. As we are not fully knowledgeable about the nature of his work, we have to base it on assumptions.
My tutor had spelled "assume" as "ASS U ME" and explained that when our assumptions are wrong, we "Make an ASS out of YOU and ME".
From United Kingdom
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I agree with the views of Vineetaj. If you are strict with the reporting time, then you should also allow the staff to leave within a maximum of half an hour of duty off time. Nowadays, most organizations make their staff work without any overtime payment for 2-3 hours daily. If this is the case, then I feel the management has no moral authority to enforce only 'in' time.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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It's been only three years since we have been in the market, and that sales employee joined us a couple of months back; five to be specific. Since the time he joined, we have been facing this issue. Earlier, he used to come late by half an hour, but now it's by an hour or so. Moreover, allowing flexible timings for completing their login hours doesn't work. I spoke to his reporting manager regarding the nature of the work; there is not much filing work. Considering his profile, he is into Telesales, so he needs to maintain his leads via CRM software. In addition to this, calling and emailing are required. All these tasks happen simultaneously.
Just wanted to update - After releasing the Warning Letter, he has started coming on time.
Regards,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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Just wanted to update - After releasing the Warning Letter, he has started coming on time.
Regards,
Shradha
From India, Gurgaon
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Dear Shradha, It's been only three years since we entered the market, and that sales employee joined us a couple of months back; five to be specific. Since he joined, we have been facing this issue. Initially, he used to come late by half an hour, but now it's by an hour or so. Moreover, allowing flexible timings to complete their log-in hours doesn't seem to work. I spoke to his reporting manager regarding the nature of the work; there isn't much filing work. Considering his profile, he is in Telesales, so he needs to maintain his leads via CRM software. Additionally, calling and emailing are required. All these tasks happen simultaneously.
Just wanted to update - After releasing the Warning Letter, he has started coming on time.
Regards,
Shradha
From India, Delhi
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Just wanted to update - After releasing the Warning Letter, he has started coming on time.
Regards,
Shradha
From India, Delhi
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Dear Friend,
As per your wording, you have mentioned that you have allowed three late arrivals in a month, and after that, it will be treated as a half-day. I wish to ask two questions here:
a. Did you obtain written consent on this matter?
b. Did the reporting officer of the salesperson make any complaint about his tardiness?
Once I receive the answers to these questions, I can provide you with a concrete solution to this issue.
Regards,
From India, Mumbai
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As per your wording, you have mentioned that you have allowed three late arrivals in a month, and after that, it will be treated as a half-day. I wish to ask two questions here:
a. Did you obtain written consent on this matter?
b. Did the reporting officer of the salesperson make any complaint about his tardiness?
Once I receive the answers to these questions, I can provide you with a concrete solution to this issue.
Regards,
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Shradha, If the employee is a workman as per IDA, you can initiate disciplinary action by issuing a chargesheet and conducting domestic enquiry.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Importance of Discipline in Organizations
Discipline is important for any organization, and we are responsible for maintaining it. As HR professionals, we have to retain quality staff with us. Also, I read that you have a policy of salary deduction for employees who are consistently late.
Steps to Address Consistent Lateness
I would suggest calling the employee into the office and asking for a written explanation by issuing a memo. If you are not satisfied with the explanation, consider initial disciplinary action such as suspension. If the behavior persists and the employee shows no signs of improvement, discuss the matter with the management and make a final decision.
From India, Ernakulam
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Discipline is important for any organization, and we are responsible for maintaining it. As HR professionals, we have to retain quality staff with us. Also, I read that you have a policy of salary deduction for employees who are consistently late.
Steps to Address Consistent Lateness
I would suggest calling the employee into the office and asking for a written explanation by issuing a memo. If you are not satisfied with the explanation, consider initial disciplinary action such as suspension. If the behavior persists and the employee shows no signs of improvement, discuss the matter with the management and make a final decision.
From India, Ernakulam
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