Dear Friends,

How do we handle situations where people arrive late for work and at times have to stay late without being compensated in any form? When any action, such as a mere chat with such latecomers, is taken, their counter argument is, "What happens when we stay late?"

Can we discuss this very common problem and arrive at a useful conclusion which I am sure will benefit many of us members.

Vasant Nair

From India, Mumbai
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Mr. Nair,

Introduce this rule:

1. 3 lates per month allowable (15 minutes) - more than this will result in a deduction of half a day's salary. However, ensure that you provide a letter and obtain permission from the employee before making any deductions.

2. 2 permissions per month allowable (1 hour).

Thank you.

From India, Chennai
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Dear Vasant,

If you have a certified standing order, then there must be a provision for penalizing latecomers. In a company, employees who stay late must be compensated with overtime allowances.

Regards,
Sumit Kumar Saxena

From India, Ghaziabad
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Dear Vasanth,

I think penalizing an employee for late coming should be the last option. You should tell them that coming to the office on time is discipline, and leaving late from the office is responsibility. In fact, if you study the trend of latecomers, there will be a set of employees who are habitual latecomers. These employees should be counseled for discipline.

As for employees staying late, you should first understand why people are staying late. If late staying is genuine, then you might suitably reward at the time of the annual performance review.

Cheers,
Shekar

From India, Bangalore
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Dear Vasanth,

As our friends mentioned, it would be better to display a notice stating that in a month, three late comings are allowed, and the total allowable late coming time should not exceed 1/2 hour. Any employee can arrive late for a maximum of 1/2 hour at once or distribute it over three instances.

After exceeding the 1/2 hour limit, a deduction of 1/2 day's salary should be made.

It is essential to address employees who stay beyond their designated working hours. There are various reasons behind this, such as employees being overloaded, trying to meet deadlines, or having insufficient manpower. Therefore, the Head of Department (HOD) should investigate these matters. The HOD is the appropriate person to handle this, so it is important to involve them in the process and seek their guidance.

On a monthly basis, the list of latecomers for the first month should be displayed on the notice board. Individual communications should be sent through the HODs, and simultaneously, a reminder about the company's rules and regulations should be reissued. Employees staying back after their regular office hours need to be counseled to determine the reasons for their extended stay.

Regards,
Kameswarao

From India, Hyderabad
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Rules are rules. If you want to penalize an employee for being late, then you must have a rule for rewarding them for staying overtime. They will automatically start following the system, but you have to have some system.
From India, Delhi
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Mahr
482

Dear Vasant Nair,

Please check the link below. I hope it might be useful.

http://citehr.com#post1040731

From India, Bangalore
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Dear Mr.Vasant Nair, Habitual late attendance may attract disciplinary as per Model Standing Orders. They are valid in absence of certified Standing Orders.
From India, Jaipur
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Hi there,

For me, good employee relations go a long way. It is pointless to penalize employees for coming late if you allow them to stay late without any form of compensation. One way of addressing this is to talk to your employees about tardiness and reinforce the rules that late arrival is not acceptable. Employees should understand that being late will result in disciplinary measures.

On the other hand, it is essential to devise a win-win solution regarding what the company will do when employees stay late. This could involve allowing them to arrive a little later the following morning or providing some time off for days they worked late. It is crucial that any solution benefits both sides.

Thank you.

From South Africa, Johannesburg
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Hey All,

Punctuality is essential to all success, and this also applies to employees' working hours. It is very important that employees are made aware of and respect the company's working hours. Managers and management staff need to adhere to this seriously, and so will the employees down the line.

On another note, every company operates in different working conditions and business models, so it is important that working hours are designed accordingly. Staggered shifts are common in software/design companies where the actual working hours of employees can be calculated on an hourly basis rather than days, as the work is more defined based on the completion of a particular project that is time-based. A proper swipe-recording machine is needed for such a process if implemented.

Additionally, I agree with Kameswarao's advice about involving the HOD for late sitting issues. Using late sitting as an excuse for arriving late can have an impact on other staff who are punctual and may lead to allegations of biased treatment against management.

Regards,

Ukmitra

From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
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Dear Mr. Vasant,

I faced the same question when we implemented a new attendance registering system. "You will deduct our pay if we come late; will you pay us if we stay late?" For sure, it is one of the toughest tasks HR has to handle.

My simple answer was: Bring overtime pay request with the approval of your Direct Manager, and we will pay you OT, i.e. the employee is not allowed to stay in the office after work hours unless and until his manager needs him to work. Make it very clear.

In some cases, HR is unaware of the reason why the employee is late. Therefore, we have to depend on the Dept. Head. In my case, I am forwarding the attendance report for the preceding week every Saturday to the concerned dept. head, of course with the note of HR Director asking them to advise on whom disciplinary action is necessary.

Still, it is a tough task, and to be honest, I am a little confused too about how we are going to take action on those who come late. Anyway, I am continuing the same process, and there is a very noticeable positive effect from the part of employees.

Thanks and regards,

Salahudheen

Executive Secretary to HR Director

NASCO, Saudi Arabia

Email: salahudheenpch@gmail.com

From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
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Dear Friends,

As HR professionals, we should inquire with the HODs why the employees in their department are working extra hours on a regular basis. This indicates that there may be something wrong with the HOD, as they seem unable to assess the amount of work their employees are handling and thus cannot adequately plan for or allocate the necessary manpower.

Given the above circumstances, if I were in the HR role, I would provide the HOD with monthly data and seek their input. There will likely be significant resistance from employees when they are not compensated for the additional hours worked but face consequences for being late. Therefore, as HR professionals, we need to strike a balance. On a case-by-case basis, it is essential to reward employees who consistently work beyond their scheduled hours. However, overall responsibility must lie with the HOD; otherwise, the HOD might deflect blame onto HR and not take necessary actions. It is advisable to obtain a written action plan from the HOD and ensure its implementation.

A practical approach could involve calling all latecomers to a meeting with their respective HODs, documenting the meeting minutes, obtaining approval from HODs and senior management, and then implementing the decided actions. This approach will establish you as a resourceful individual. In subsequent budget meetings, emphasize the need for manpower without additional payment requirements.

Regards,
Kameswarao

From India, Hyderabad
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• Well said, Mr. Sheker. 'You should tell them that coming to the office on time is discipline and going late from the office is responsibility.'

• Employees are likely to say that we are not compensated for staying late and working extra. I think it is a matter of culture cultivated in the organization.

• Employers should not encourage the culture of staying late and doing the same work which otherwise can be completed in regular working hours. Recognizing and applauding only those employees who stay late etc. Under such circumstances, employees are likely to take advantage of their late stay as an excuse for coming late.

• Cultivate a culture of discipline where everybody is expected to be in at the stipulated time, no matter how long you have stayed late last night. Devise penalties for latecomers and implement them without favor or fear. Your policy and rules should be clear and known to all employees and should also be implemented accordingly. You will face resistance only initially. Make sure that every policy you implement is vetted by your higher-ups and they are on your side in case of dispute.

• Generally, employees in the workmen category will have to be compensated for extra working, since they have specific legal protection. But Officers and Managers will have to be treated differently; they have to be punctual as well as they have to complete assigned work without looking at the watch.

• To conclude, the employer should encourage punctuality, timeliness, and completion of work and not mere staying late. Maybe the employer can allow employees to leave the office early if they have finished the jobs at hand satisfactorily.

Thanks & Regards

From India, Pune
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I am afraid I do not quite agree with you. Just as it is the employee's lawful right to expect to be paid a full month's salary for a full month's work, it is also the lawful right of the employer to expect a full day's productive work from his employees.

Latecoming attracts disciplinary action, and for this, permission of the employee is not required at all. If you are doing it, please understand that you are setting a very poor and disturbing precedent. Stop it immediately.

Vasant Nair


From India, Mumbai
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Dear Vasant,

Two-day comings in a month are acceptable under unavoidable circumstances. If this pattern continues for the third time, cut down the Casual Leave (CL). Every employee is eligible to take one day of leave in a month according to the Shops and Establishment Act. Therefore, if you reduce the CL, they cannot take any more CL for that month. If they take leave, it will be considered Privilege Leave (PL), which will not be encashed. If they continue this behavior, give them an oral warning. If the issue persists, escalate it to higher authority. They will be scared and might face suspension or termination from the organization if the behavior continues.

Regards,
S. Newton Jenkins

From India, Madras
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Dear Sumit,

You are right on both counts. Yes, Standing Orders do generally treat late coming as an act of misconduct and attract disciplinary action. But do we need to activate the disciplinary machinery to tackle such simple problems? I have always believed that as HR persons, we are in the "Business of Looking After our People," and this has been the faith that I have practiced consistently in all of my 30 years of active employment. We would only antagonize our "Manpower Compliment" by adopting a legalistic approach over a "Humanistic Approach" in managing our people. Let's carry on with our discussion on this topic and find a suitable, amicable, and effective solution.

Yes, I also agree with you that people should be compensated for staying late.

Vasant Nair


From India, Mumbai
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A very " People positive" approach. Totally agree with you. Lets find out why and address this very relevant "WHY" and we would find that our solution lies therein. Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Friend,

What you have suggested is a rule which is prevalent in several organizations. But you must admit that people are smart these days. If an employee knows that he is going to lose half a day's wages for being a little late, what is to prevent him from settling for half a day's leave? In the long run, you would be presented with attendance problems.

On the other hand, would your action of deducting half a day's wages for 1/2 hour of late coming be a lawful action?

Let's adopt a more people-oriented and proactive approach to dealing with the problems of late coming.

You are absolutely right that we should involve the Head of Department (HOD) to deal with both late coming and late staying...we will find our answer there!

One should always remember that late staying AND late coming both should be discouraged now! The disease should not be allowed to infect.

Vasant Nair


From India, Mumbai
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I agree with you totally. I know of an organization where the full month's attendance is arrived at by multiplying the number of days worked in the month by 8 hours...say 208 hours for a full month...26 x 8. Any shortfall in the total hours worked is adjusted automatically. This rule is working wonderfully well there.

Vasant Nair

Hey All,

Punctuality is essential to all success, and this also applies to employees' working hours. It's very important that employees are made aware of and respect the company's working hours. Managers and management staff need to adhere to it seriously, and so will the employees down the line.

Another thought: every company works in different working conditions and business models, and it's important that the working hours are designed accordingly. Staggered shifts are common in software/designing companies where the actual working hours of the employee can be calculated on an hourly basis rather than days, since the work is more defined based on the completion of a particular project which is time-based. You need to have a proper swipe-recording machine for such a process if adopted.

Also, I agree with Kameswarao's advice about involving the HOD for late sitting issues, as this is an excuse an employee is using for late coming and will have an impact on other staff who are punctual and also attract biased treatment allegations on management.

Regards, Ukmitra

From India, Mumbai
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Dear Friends,

We have had a very interesting discussion on this very common problem all HR practitioners face. Can I request someone to please summarize and come up with one final post on this, based on the valuable comments posted here.

Thank You, Vasant Nair

From India, Mumbai
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Interesting to see how various views emerge during different times. A few months back, we had a similar post on late coming. Views tended to be more people/employee-oriented.

Why can't we search before we type?

From India, Hyderabad
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On Late Coming:

Working Hours:
1. Every office establishment has clearly defined and fixed working hours.
2. Every employee is obliged to adhere to the fixed working hours.
3. Every employee is required to be punctual in coming for work.
4. At times, employees are required to stay late.

Late Staying:
5. Logically, late staying attracts compensation in the form of OT.
6. In some organizations, late staying is not compensated.

Penalty for Late Coming:
7. Is the management justified in penalizing staff who come late for work, stay late, and are not compensated for such late staying?
8. Again, is it ethical/legal to deduct one day's CL or salary for, say, three days' late coming during a month?

Action to be taken:
9. As HR practitioners, do we go legal and resort to disciplinary action against latecomers, or do we adopt a humanistic approach? It has been my experience that one-to-one counseling can do wonders. Of course, chronic latecomers are to be treated differently on a case-to-case basis.

Understanding of Punctuality:
10. We should all consciously remember that punctuality is not just about arriving in the office on the dot. It also means leaving the office on time at the end of the day.
11. We should understand that in "efficient" work environments, late staying is looked at with disapproval. Late staying by staff should be discouraged.
12. There are organizations where flexible timings are observed. Here, late coming does not apply as long as you work for the required number of hours.

Suggested Course of Action:
1. Office timings are fixed and clearly defined.
2. It must be explained to all employees that it is in the interest of overall discipline in the establishment that everyone adheres to the prescribed office timings.
3. Late staying should normally be discouraged.
4. At times, some people are required to stay late for urgent official work. This should be a pre-planned activity duly sanctioned by the concerned HOD.
5. Late staying should be compensated. OT, refreshments, conveyance reimbursement for travel by auto, taxi (depending on level), compensatory off, etc., are some examples.
6. Latecomers should be regularly counseled, and such counseling should be recorded and signed by the counselor and the concerned employee. It should be explained to the latecomer that such late coming will reflect in his annual appraisals.
7. Monthly reward for punctuality may be considered more in terms of "recognition."
8. The focus should be more on the work culture than addressing individual instances of late coming and taking disciplinary action.
9. I would strongly recommend that "disciplinary action" should be the last resort. The real success lies in converting latecomers into "on-time" arrivals.

Rules & Regulations/Guidelines if required could be framed within the above framework.

Vasant Nair
HR Advisor

From India, Mumbai
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Thank you for your appreciation of the issue at hand. These and other seemingly innocent and simple issues do confront all HR practitioners, every now and then. Therefore, it is very necessary to discuss these thoroughly to find the right solutions.

Best Wishes, Vasant Nair


From India, Mumbai
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