Hi all,
I've faced a situation wherein I'm stuck in between the higher management and an employee. This female gets pregnant and she's unmarried. She comes to me and tells me honestly about her case, and wants to apply for maternity leave. She's a good employee but because of this kind of case, the employer is worried about the dignity of the organization and wants to terminate her, but still confused.
What I have suggested to them was about 'Job Rotation'. That lets us shift her to some other department for the time being and respect her as an individual instead of terminating her.
What I want to know is, if we terminate her, can she go legal against the organization (even though she is not married and pregnant)?
Kindly give your suggestions on this, please.
From Korea
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2I've faced a situation wherein I'm stuck in between the higher management and an employee. This female gets pregnant and she's unmarried. She comes to me and tells me honestly about her case, and wants to apply for maternity leave. She's a good employee but because of this kind of case, the employer is worried about the dignity of the organization and wants to terminate her, but still confused.
What I have suggested to them was about 'Job Rotation'. That lets us shift her to some other department for the time being and respect her as an individual instead of terminating her.
What I want to know is, if we terminate her, can she go legal against the organization (even though she is not married and pregnant)?
Kindly give your suggestions on this, please.
From Korea
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Hi Joe,
You cannot terminate a person in this case at all. She can very well apply for maternity leave. The company should be least bothered about her personal life, and nowhere in the constitution is it written that getting pregnant without marriage is a crime. Make your management understand the fact that this will be a case of discrimination against an employee, and she can sue the company on legal grounds.
You should also revisit your policies and check the maternity leave clause. Nowhere does it mention that only married women can avail of this leave. It states that pregnant women can avail of this leave irrespective of being married or unmarried. I would request you to please respect the dignity of an individual and not take any such action against her on ethical and moral grounds. This might ultimately result in getting the company in trouble.
Regards, Anurag
From United States
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You cannot terminate a person in this case at all. She can very well apply for maternity leave. The company should be least bothered about her personal life, and nowhere in the constitution is it written that getting pregnant without marriage is a crime. Make your management understand the fact that this will be a case of discrimination against an employee, and she can sue the company on legal grounds.
You should also revisit your policies and check the maternity leave clause. Nowhere does it mention that only married women can avail of this leave. It states that pregnant women can avail of this leave irrespective of being married or unmarried. I would request you to please respect the dignity of an individual and not take any such action against her on ethical and moral grounds. This might ultimately result in getting the company in trouble.
Regards, Anurag
From United States
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Hi Joe,
She can definitely take a legal course in this situation, and since she has decided to be a single mother, she has the guts to face society and hence the company. I can understand your employer's perspective about values, but nowhere legally is this mentioned as a cause to terminate an employee if the employee is honest and diligent towards her work and the employer. She can even file a suit on the basis of discrimination where the employer is sure to lose. The solution you suggested seems to be the best one. Also, it would be even better if you could speak to the employee about the situation with the employer.
Regards, AJ
From India, Thana
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She can definitely take a legal course in this situation, and since she has decided to be a single mother, she has the guts to face society and hence the company. I can understand your employer's perspective about values, but nowhere legally is this mentioned as a cause to terminate an employee if the employee is honest and diligent towards her work and the employer. She can even file a suit on the basis of discrimination where the employer is sure to lose. The solution you suggested seems to be the best one. Also, it would be even better if you could speak to the employee about the situation with the employer.
Regards, AJ
From India, Thana
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Hi Joe,
Yes, I agree with AJ and Anurag. The best way is to grant her maternity leave. You may ask her to later submit the documents of marriage to update the company records. However, management should not worry about anyone's personal life problems like this. In fact, all must come forward to support her and help since she is a good employee of the company.
Regards,
Mahesh K Prasad
From India, Mumbai
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Yes, I agree with AJ and Anurag. The best way is to grant her maternity leave. You may ask her to later submit the documents of marriage to update the company records. However, management should not worry about anyone's personal life problems like this. In fact, all must come forward to support her and help since she is a good employee of the company.
Regards,
Mahesh K Prasad
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Anurag, AJ, and MK Prasad,
Thank you so much for your response. I am now confident and convinced about my suggestion to the employer. It is important to respect each and every individual in the organization.
Thank you for your encouragement.
From Korea
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Thank you so much for your response. I am now confident and convinced about my suggestion to the employer. It is important to respect each and every individual in the organization.
Thank you for your encouragement.
From Korea
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Dear Joe,
For Anurag, AJ, & MK Prasad, your replies were really very good. Terminating an employee on the grounds of "pregnancy out of wedlock" is ridiculous. Please inform your employer that we pay employees for their performance, not for who they are as individuals.
Women have been becoming pregnant before marriage since time immemorial. There are even references to this in mythology. Advise your employer to focus on organizational issues rather than delving into personal matters of employees. The employee's claim for maternity leave is legally valid, and she should be granted that leave.
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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For Anurag, AJ, & MK Prasad, your replies were really very good. Terminating an employee on the grounds of "pregnancy out of wedlock" is ridiculous. Please inform your employer that we pay employees for their performance, not for who they are as individuals.
Women have been becoming pregnant before marriage since time immemorial. There are even references to this in mythology. Advise your employer to focus on organizational issues rather than delving into personal matters of employees. The employee's claim for maternity leave is legally valid, and she should be granted that leave.
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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That's what Dinesh said, "In our profession, we don't interfere in anyone's personal life. If such kinds of issues arise in an MNC, then it is more surprising and shocking." Thanks for your valuable inputs. We talk about mental growth, but somewhere it's lacking majorly.
From Korea
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From Korea
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Hi Joe,
I suggest you go through the terms and conditions of your appointment letter. Most companies include a clause to terminate a person on grounds of "Immorality." Though getting pregnant is not illegal as per law, it is considered immoral. Before speaking with the employee, ensure that the terms and conditions of the employment do not contain this clause, and then take it forward to the management.
Regards,
Roopa
From India, Madras
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I suggest you go through the terms and conditions of your appointment letter. Most companies include a clause to terminate a person on grounds of "Immorality." Though getting pregnant is not illegal as per law, it is considered immoral. Before speaking with the employee, ensure that the terms and conditions of the employment do not contain this clause, and then take it forward to the management.
Regards,
Roopa
From India, Madras
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Hi,
Don't be a fool, my dear. Respect her and give her the leave, keeping in mind the humanitarian part too. You should also try not to inculcate humor regarding this as this is her personal life. Let her enjoy the way she wants.
Reply to me soon.
ANURAG SHARMA
From India, Delhi
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Don't be a fool, my dear. Respect her and give her the leave, keeping in mind the humanitarian part too. You should also try not to inculcate humor regarding this as this is her personal life. Let her enjoy the way she wants.
Reply to me soon.
ANURAG SHARMA
From India, Delhi
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Hi Roopa,
I beg to differ. This statement still won't hold in the civil courts as the statement in the joining letter or letter of appointment clearly states about immoral activity or behavior with respect to work, vendors, and clients. This, in no way, interferes with your personal life, especially when it comes to giving birth out of wedlock. The moral definition of the above will change according to the zones and countries you are in. She can argue that she was promised a wedding, and once pregnant, the person later on didn't keep his promise, and it was too late for her to get an abortion done.
Hence, the moral values upheld by society won't hold in the court of law.
Regards,
AJ
From India, Thana
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I beg to differ. This statement still won't hold in the civil courts as the statement in the joining letter or letter of appointment clearly states about immoral activity or behavior with respect to work, vendors, and clients. This, in no way, interferes with your personal life, especially when it comes to giving birth out of wedlock. The moral definition of the above will change according to the zones and countries you are in. She can argue that she was promised a wedding, and once pregnant, the person later on didn't keep his promise, and it was too late for her to get an abortion done.
Hence, the moral values upheld by society won't hold in the court of law.
Regards,
AJ
From India, Thana
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Dear All
As far as the humanitarian ground is concerned, she should be given leave ( I don´t know, can we call and record it as maternity leave, since in her personal reccords the status is unmarried?) for her delivery. Dear all, I beg to think on the company´s point of view also. It is immaterial to deal in one´s personal life, but if it amounts to tarnishing the image of the company, how would an HR person will handle? Pregnancy is not a secret issue which can be hided for a long time. And the employees and society need not have to get the company´s information to know about the employee´s state. It will happen its own.
Then what will be the importance of a declaration and personal reccords furnished by the employee on joining? That doesñ´t have any implication in the legal courts?
Pour your different views,( or clarify my concerns).
Regards
:?:
From India, Bangalore
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As far as the humanitarian ground is concerned, she should be given leave ( I don´t know, can we call and record it as maternity leave, since in her personal reccords the status is unmarried?) for her delivery. Dear all, I beg to think on the company´s point of view also. It is immaterial to deal in one´s personal life, but if it amounts to tarnishing the image of the company, how would an HR person will handle? Pregnancy is not a secret issue which can be hided for a long time. And the employees and society need not have to get the company´s information to know about the employee´s state. It will happen its own.
Then what will be the importance of a declaration and personal reccords furnished by the employee on joining? That doesñ´t have any implication in the legal courts?
Pour your different views,( or clarify my concerns).
Regards
:?:
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Roopa,
Thanks for your suggestion.
Dear Anurag,
I understand that it is a sensitive issue. Now, I'm strong enough to put my idea in front of the management. And thanks to you for the great help :)
From Korea
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Thanks for your suggestion.
Dear Anurag,
I understand that it is a sensitive issue. Now, I'm strong enough to put my idea in front of the management. And thanks to you for the great help :)
From Korea
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Dear Rajan,
I understand your concern here; however, this is one of the cases that can be handled and taken care of as a special case. I'm sure in abroad, these things are normal, and I myself work in an MNC. That's why I would like to handle this issue with utmost care so that a decision is reached between both parties, i.e., the management and the employee.
What do you have to say on this?
From Korea
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I understand your concern here; however, this is one of the cases that can be handled and taken care of as a special case. I'm sure in abroad, these things are normal, and I myself work in an MNC. That's why I would like to handle this issue with utmost care so that a decision is reached between both parties, i.e., the management and the employee.
What do you have to say on this?
From Korea
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Hi Joe,
Pls to consider Aunrag words, 1st being human is more important than anything else. HR means People's Person, so stand next to her and respect her feelings and support her to the Maximum extend you can.
Nothing to do with the personal life of an employee. Pls try to convince the Management.
Pls do reply soon.
Regards
Lavanya.k
From India, Bangalore
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Pls to consider Aunrag words, 1st being human is more important than anything else. HR means People's Person, so stand next to her and respect her feelings and support her to the Maximum extend you can.
Nothing to do with the personal life of an employee. Pls try to convince the Management.
Pls do reply soon.
Regards
Lavanya.k
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Roopa,
Even if an employment contract clearly reads "your services can be terminated with/without notice in case of immoral acts (as defined by the company)," a person cannot be terminated on this ground. Any contract that is not in accordance with governing laws is null and void.
Vijai
From India, Hyderabad
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Even if an employment contract clearly reads "your services can be terminated with/without notice in case of immoral acts (as defined by the company)," a person cannot be terminated on this ground. Any contract that is not in accordance with governing laws is null and void.
Vijai
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi,
Good to see everyone's approach and meaning towards humanity. Take an instance - give her maternity leave. Do you set an example for this culture? We have a culture that is looked upon. Organization values and at the same time, the privacy of the human is very much important.
It is not that if the employee is good, you can simply accept whatever the employee does. An organization is more than the employee. Individual privacy and humanity are very much important. Sit across the table, discuss the facts, and part as friends. Never terminate the employee, but at the same time, make sure that the organization is not comfortable with these types of activities. Part on mutual understanding and respect.
I am not sure how many of us will be comfortable with my view.
From India, Coimbatore
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Good to see everyone's approach and meaning towards humanity. Take an instance - give her maternity leave. Do you set an example for this culture? We have a culture that is looked upon. Organization values and at the same time, the privacy of the human is very much important.
It is not that if the employee is good, you can simply accept whatever the employee does. An organization is more than the employee. Individual privacy and humanity are very much important. Sit across the table, discuss the facts, and part as friends. Never terminate the employee, but at the same time, make sure that the organization is not comfortable with these types of activities. Part on mutual understanding and respect.
I am not sure how many of us will be comfortable with my view.
From India, Coimbatore
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Mr. Sardhar,
Here, I'm trying to emphasize that it should be done with mutual understanding as it is a sensitive issue, and these types of cases/issues are not faced in daily life. I agree with you.
From Korea
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Here, I'm trying to emphasize that it should be done with mutual understanding as it is a sensitive issue, and these types of cases/issues are not faced in daily life. I agree with you.
From Korea
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Hi Joe,
Though the situation has put you into a very uneasy position, you will have to take the right way out. As per the Act, a pregnant employee, whether married or unmarried, is eligible for maternity leave as it is a statute. Hence, under no circumstances, especially because she is pregnant at this point in time, should you terminate her. Doing so could amount to discrimination, and many other issues may arise from this. The best way to deal with this situation is to grant her leave. I am sure she would be able to handle the social aspect.
Thanks & Regards,
Merlin Mathews
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Though the situation has put you into a very uneasy position, you will have to take the right way out. As per the Act, a pregnant employee, whether married or unmarried, is eligible for maternity leave as it is a statute. Hence, under no circumstances, especially because she is pregnant at this point in time, should you terminate her. Doing so could amount to discrimination, and many other issues may arise from this. The best way to deal with this situation is to grant her leave. I am sure she would be able to handle the social aspect.
Thanks & Regards,
Merlin Mathews
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Hello,
Yes, the employee can file a case against the company. It is her personal life whether she gets pregnant without marriage or with marriage, and the company does not have any right to comment on the same.
Regarding the morality clause, it pertains to morality and immorality concerning her employment, not her personal life.
The company cannot label a particular incident or occurrence regarding the personal life of any employees as moral or immoral because they are not empowered or authorized to do so.
Yes, the company could have terminated her if they could prove with appropriate evidence that getting pregnant without being married is a crime as per any Indian statute. However, this is not possible as there is no such clause or act stating that getting pregnant without being married is illegal.
I also request your company to maintain a corporate and professional demeanor and not act as a moral police or the torchbearer of social morality in human society.
Furthermore, ensure that when this particular employee rejoins, other employees treat her in a humane manner and do not taunt or make her personal life the subject of jokes.
It takes guts of steel to stand by a principle. If, as a female, she can decide to give birth to a child without fearing the so-called society of social animals called humans, then why can't a company like yours take a stand instead of terminating an employee on flimsy grounds of reputation failure?
Thank you,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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Yes, the employee can file a case against the company. It is her personal life whether she gets pregnant without marriage or with marriage, and the company does not have any right to comment on the same.
Regarding the morality clause, it pertains to morality and immorality concerning her employment, not her personal life.
The company cannot label a particular incident or occurrence regarding the personal life of any employees as moral or immoral because they are not empowered or authorized to do so.
Yes, the company could have terminated her if they could prove with appropriate evidence that getting pregnant without being married is a crime as per any Indian statute. However, this is not possible as there is no such clause or act stating that getting pregnant without being married is illegal.
I also request your company to maintain a corporate and professional demeanor and not act as a moral police or the torchbearer of social morality in human society.
Furthermore, ensure that when this particular employee rejoins, other employees treat her in a humane manner and do not taunt or make her personal life the subject of jokes.
It takes guts of steel to stand by a principle. If, as a female, she can decide to give birth to a child without fearing the so-called society of social animals called humans, then why can't a company like yours take a stand instead of terminating an employee on flimsy grounds of reputation failure?
Thank you,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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The best solution is to retain her and approve all her leaves in the latter month. Also, offer her the option of LOPIs, which can be adjusted with leaves accumulated later. Remember, it's her life and not your boss's.
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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I am really touched by this situation. Why, in India, though educated, are we still narrow-minded? Why do we not allow a person to live as they wish to live? We see people getting married and escaping from their responsibilities; a lot of dowry deaths, divorces, etc. We, being educated, are encouraging to abort (kill) an unborn baby. Is this justice? Is it not an indirect murder by the employer? Legally, she can fight a case, and she deserves maternity benefits. Kindly, if possible, please show these replies to your employer.
Regards,
Saflera
(A voice of an educated citizen)
From India, Panipat
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Regards,
Saflera
(A voice of an educated citizen)
From India, Panipat
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Hi,
It is purely a personal matter whether to get pregnant, married, or not married. The organization must respect the individual's wish to bear a child and grant her leave. Moreover, she is a good employee, and whatever is happening in her personal life should not be a concern to the company as long as it doesn't affect her work. I have also come across women being granted leave when they have adopted an infant. As of today, a good number of single mothers are employed and doing well for themselves, so companies must respect their single status and support them.
Regards,
RGS.
From India, Bangalore
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It is purely a personal matter whether to get pregnant, married, or not married. The organization must respect the individual's wish to bear a child and grant her leave. Moreover, she is a good employee, and whatever is happening in her personal life should not be a concern to the company as long as it doesn't affect her work. I have also come across women being granted leave when they have adopted an infant. As of today, a good number of single mothers are employed and doing well for themselves, so companies must respect their single status and support them.
Regards,
RGS.
From India, Bangalore
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please read definition of mother if she is covered under maternity act. if she is not covered under above act then read esi act for the definition of mother . regards, neeraj sharma
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Dear Joe,
The solution is very simple. Just grant her leave and extend all other humanitarian help. Treat her with dignity when questioned by any vested interests. As Mr. Kumaran suggested, take cover under the ambiguities of the law of the land. Do you know that in certain European and Western countries, even society does not raise eyebrows?
For all the more reason, she may be just a victim of some 'hit & run' guy, who knows. She may not like to reveal it to the workplace and society and may bite the bullet.
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The solution is very simple. Just grant her leave and extend all other humanitarian help. Treat her with dignity when questioned by any vested interests. As Mr. Kumaran suggested, take cover under the ambiguities of the law of the land. Do you know that in certain European and Western countries, even society does not raise eyebrows?
For all the more reason, she may be just a victim of some 'hit & run' guy, who knows. She may not like to reveal it to the workplace and society and may bite the bullet.
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Hi,
Interesting case. I find a lot of support from all members. Legally, she is entitled to leave. Legally, management cannot terminate her. Let us stop with that. There is so much support here for this girl without getting all information. If she conceives from a person who is not married, there is no issue. In case she has a relationship with a married person, how many of us will support her? If she is spoiling the life of another woman, can we support her like this? The question is: Is she eligible for leave or not? Can the management terminate her on this ground? Reply is no if there is no police action against her. If the person responsible happens to be a married person and if his wife lodges a police complaint and if the police take action, what do we do? Well, my advice is let us not get emotional and sympathetic. Let us go with the rule book in such cases.
Siva
From India, Chennai
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Interesting case. I find a lot of support from all members. Legally, she is entitled to leave. Legally, management cannot terminate her. Let us stop with that. There is so much support here for this girl without getting all information. If she conceives from a person who is not married, there is no issue. In case she has a relationship with a married person, how many of us will support her? If she is spoiling the life of another woman, can we support her like this? The question is: Is she eligible for leave or not? Can the management terminate her on this ground? Reply is no if there is no police action against her. If the person responsible happens to be a married person and if his wife lodges a police complaint and if the police take action, what do we do? Well, my advice is let us not get emotional and sympathetic. Let us go with the rule book in such cases.
Siva
From India, Chennai
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Hi,
I am really shocked about this news. In my 14 years of experience in this field, this pregnancy is not legal, social, and moral. This pregnancy is absolutely illegal, and management is truly worried about this case.
If you have a certified Standing Order, please check the termination of employment clause and misconduct clause.
Check how many days per month the pregnancy is and what her date of joining was. Determine if this pregnancy was by a company employee or an outside person. If it was an inside employee, you can discuss one-on-one at the table and ask for an explanation because this is an organization, not a charity. These types of work are not accepted in the organization by the employer.
My suggestion is to inform your management to issue a letter regarding her performance not being satisfactory or any other misconduct, etc.
Alternatively, after discussing one-on-one, you can request her resignation.
Thanks,
Manoj Kumar
Human Resource
teotiamanoj@gmail.com
teotiamanoj@rediffmail.com
From India, Delhi
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I am really shocked about this news. In my 14 years of experience in this field, this pregnancy is not legal, social, and moral. This pregnancy is absolutely illegal, and management is truly worried about this case.
If you have a certified Standing Order, please check the termination of employment clause and misconduct clause.
Check how many days per month the pregnancy is and what her date of joining was. Determine if this pregnancy was by a company employee or an outside person. If it was an inside employee, you can discuss one-on-one at the table and ask for an explanation because this is an organization, not a charity. These types of work are not accepted in the organization by the employer.
My suggestion is to inform your management to issue a letter regarding her performance not being satisfactory or any other misconduct, etc.
Alternatively, after discussing one-on-one, you can request her resignation.
Thanks,
Manoj Kumar
Human Resource
teotiamanoj@gmail.com
teotiamanoj@rediffmail.com
From India, Delhi
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It's we who decide what's moral and immoral. I think the employer has to explain about the situation of the person. This has to be looked at in a sensitive way as it's related to Indian culture and value systems. The employer believes that it may affect the image of the company. At the same time, this is related to the individual's belief system, so please explain both sides of the issue. The employer has to understand that an individual's personal life cannot be part of any disciplinary action and also convey the employer's concern to the employee. As one of our friends said, give the employee maternity leave, and send her. When she returns to work, convince her and try transferring her to another branch.
Hate the sin, not the sinner.
From India, Hosur
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Hate the sin, not the sinner.
From India, Hosur
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Dear Sivasankeran & Manoj,
On what grounds are you talking about a police complaint? In the IPC, it is clearly mentioned about the person who has to be arrested and who can't be arrested in a case of adultery.
The advice provided here by the majority has been based on the basic principle of Natural Justice and in conformity with the Statute of the land.
There can be no case against the female in the above matter discussed, as she is a major and having consensual bodily intimacy is not a crime. However, the person whose child she is carrying, if married, can be charged with adultery by the wife of the person.
The police are not a judicial body, and just because a person has been called in for questioning or arrested by the police does not make them a criminal. Only the awarding of punishment makes a person a criminal. Until the person is not awarded any punishment by a competent judicial body, they are presumed to be innocent.
For more details, please refer to cases pertaining to Air India. There is a landmark judgment regarding working females and their rights. Additionally, one complaint by a female to the National Women's Commission can land the entire company in trouble.
I would like to know how many times Manoj has, in his 14 years of professional life, gone up to his CFO and asked not to seek ways to avoid various taxes that the company is liable to pay to the government. Finding loopholes to reduce tax payments is also a moral, social, and economic mischief/crime, isn't it?
Don't take the above comments personally. I request that both of you read the comments stated by me in a professional and mature dialogue exchange manner and not as a personal attack on either of you.
Let's not discuss the matter further as the author of the post has the majority vote in favor of the lady in question.
We are not at a higher platform of life from where we can judge or comment on the morality of a person.
What is conviction? Nothing but a fearless state of mind and body together to stand by something that one firmly believes to be true and just. And all she is doing is standing by what she believes to be true and just.
Thank you,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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On what grounds are you talking about a police complaint? In the IPC, it is clearly mentioned about the person who has to be arrested and who can't be arrested in a case of adultery.
The advice provided here by the majority has been based on the basic principle of Natural Justice and in conformity with the Statute of the land.
There can be no case against the female in the above matter discussed, as she is a major and having consensual bodily intimacy is not a crime. However, the person whose child she is carrying, if married, can be charged with adultery by the wife of the person.
The police are not a judicial body, and just because a person has been called in for questioning or arrested by the police does not make them a criminal. Only the awarding of punishment makes a person a criminal. Until the person is not awarded any punishment by a competent judicial body, they are presumed to be innocent.
For more details, please refer to cases pertaining to Air India. There is a landmark judgment regarding working females and their rights. Additionally, one complaint by a female to the National Women's Commission can land the entire company in trouble.
I would like to know how many times Manoj has, in his 14 years of professional life, gone up to his CFO and asked not to seek ways to avoid various taxes that the company is liable to pay to the government. Finding loopholes to reduce tax payments is also a moral, social, and economic mischief/crime, isn't it?
Don't take the above comments personally. I request that both of you read the comments stated by me in a professional and mature dialogue exchange manner and not as a personal attack on either of you.
Let's not discuss the matter further as the author of the post has the majority vote in favor of the lady in question.
We are not at a higher platform of life from where we can judge or comment on the morality of a person.
What is conviction? Nothing but a fearless state of mind and body together to stand by something that one firmly believes to be true and just. And all she is doing is standing by what she believes to be true and just.
Thank you,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Joe Can some one update about the recent court judgement, in which they spelled out about the live-in relationship Manoj K Sharma
From India, Jodhpur
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From India, Jodhpur
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Hi Joe, Please convince the management that she ought to be given maternity leave on legal grounds and failure to do so would amount to discrimination.. Best Regards Vijay Shitole
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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I think that this woman must be terminated because, as per Indian law, it's an illegitimate product of an illegal relationship. There is nothing like individual respect in this case because it's always the organizational respect that should matter. You cannot individually respect a person who has indulged in an illegal activity.
C N Daftuar
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C N Daftuar
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People talk about Humanity all across,,, What about Moral Ethics,,, Why try to Justify the act of the Person,, Setting an Example,,,,,
From India, Coimbatore
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From India, Coimbatore
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My Dear Learned and Educated HR Professionals,
I saw the comments of many members discussing legal, moral, cultural, environmental, and whatnot. Some suggested firing her, some advised supporting her, while others recommended neutrality and adherence to rules.
Let me tell you, in such cases, there is a significant shock and emotional disturbance for the employee in question and their family, friends, and close ones.
The employee in your case likely discussed this issue with their family and friends before deciding to proceed with the pregnancy. Her family and friends are supportive of her decision.
However, it's important to remember that WE ARE STILL IN INDIA, and in India, if such news spreads in your community, you risk losing respect and support from neighbors. Criticism becomes central, and life in society can become challenging. Many such pregnancy cases go unnoticed due to the shame of being exposed, leading some to choose abortion to protect their reputation.
While some suggest holding the other party responsible, she also bears some responsibility. Even if promises were made, she should have been cautious.
From a management and company perspective, employees may label her characterless or illegitimate, especially in India where many may not support her. Such situations can lead to individuals taking extreme steps to escape societal judgment.
One thing is certain, from a management standpoint, supporting her is challenging considering Indian cultural norms, moral values, and ethics. Pregnancy outside marriage is viewed as a serious offense in India, and societal norms often supersede legal statutes.
Supporting her could potentially land you in trouble. It's advisable to let senior members of the company make the decision and take responsibility for it.
In such cases, anything is possible.
From India, Pune
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I saw the comments of many members discussing legal, moral, cultural, environmental, and whatnot. Some suggested firing her, some advised supporting her, while others recommended neutrality and adherence to rules.
Let me tell you, in such cases, there is a significant shock and emotional disturbance for the employee in question and their family, friends, and close ones.
The employee in your case likely discussed this issue with their family and friends before deciding to proceed with the pregnancy. Her family and friends are supportive of her decision.
However, it's important to remember that WE ARE STILL IN INDIA, and in India, if such news spreads in your community, you risk losing respect and support from neighbors. Criticism becomes central, and life in society can become challenging. Many such pregnancy cases go unnoticed due to the shame of being exposed, leading some to choose abortion to protect their reputation.
While some suggest holding the other party responsible, she also bears some responsibility. Even if promises were made, she should have been cautious.
From a management and company perspective, employees may label her characterless or illegitimate, especially in India where many may not support her. Such situations can lead to individuals taking extreme steps to escape societal judgment.
One thing is certain, from a management standpoint, supporting her is challenging considering Indian cultural norms, moral values, and ethics. Pregnancy outside marriage is viewed as a serious offense in India, and societal norms often supersede legal statutes.
Supporting her could potentially land you in trouble. It's advisable to let senior members of the company make the decision and take responsibility for it.
In such cases, anything is possible.
From India, Pune
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Hi, The only thing that you have to consider whether getting impregnated without getting legally married involves "moral turpitude" or not. Decide the case on this basis. S. Krishnamoorthy
From United States, Roslindale
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From United States, Roslindale
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Hey Joe,
Even I would agree with Anurag. I am just an amateur in this field, but what they say makes sense. After all, an organization has no right to deal with the employee's personal life. Also, to top it off, the employee in consideration is a good performer, so let's respect her. In fact, I feel we should help her since she has been a good employee and is now in a problem.
Also, being an HR (which I presume you are), you should try to empathize with her and sympathize. So let's help her. Anyway, keep smiling.
Regards,
Disha
From India, Madras
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Even I would agree with Anurag. I am just an amateur in this field, but what they say makes sense. After all, an organization has no right to deal with the employee's personal life. Also, to top it off, the employee in consideration is a good performer, so let's respect her. In fact, I feel we should help her since she has been a good employee and is now in a problem.
Also, being an HR (which I presume you are), you should try to empathize with her and sympathize. So let's help her. Anyway, keep smiling.
Regards,
Disha
From India, Madras
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Dear Octavius,
I am not talking about adultery. If the wife lodges a complaint on adultery, action can be taken. When I said Police, it is just about action I am aware finally courts need to decide.
My viewpoint on this issue is, if you read my posting once again, what is the question before us?
The original posting is all about legally can she take maternity leave and can the management terminate her.
We as HR professionals need to stop with that.
The answer is legally she is eligible for leave, and legally management cannot terminate her.
This is as simple as that!
But, somewhere in the thread someone starts talking about moral and ethical issues, and someone makes this girl out to be a big achiever. Someone tells India is India. In fact, the US and Western countries are more careful on this.
I was trying to bring the attention of all that the question before us is not about moral or ethical issues; it is one of legal. Stop with that.
Moral and ethical issues should be handled by their family, and let us stay away from that.
We really do not know all the facts. Without knowing the facts, how can we support her?
I hope you would appreciate my stand... let us make the issue simple. By talking about ethics and morals, we may complicate the whole issue.
Siva
From India, Chennai
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I am not talking about adultery. If the wife lodges a complaint on adultery, action can be taken. When I said Police, it is just about action I am aware finally courts need to decide.
My viewpoint on this issue is, if you read my posting once again, what is the question before us?
The original posting is all about legally can she take maternity leave and can the management terminate her.
We as HR professionals need to stop with that.
The answer is legally she is eligible for leave, and legally management cannot terminate her.
This is as simple as that!
But, somewhere in the thread someone starts talking about moral and ethical issues, and someone makes this girl out to be a big achiever. Someone tells India is India. In fact, the US and Western countries are more careful on this.
I was trying to bring the attention of all that the question before us is not about moral or ethical issues; it is one of legal. Stop with that.
Moral and ethical issues should be handled by their family, and let us stay away from that.
We really do not know all the facts. Without knowing the facts, how can we support her?
I hope you would appreciate my stand... let us make the issue simple. By talking about ethics and morals, we may complicate the whole issue.
Siva
From India, Chennai
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Dear Roopa,
May I remind you that employees can be suspended or terminated for "any action that involves moral turpitude" and not necessarily for an "immoral act".
The relationship between the two parties involved in question, i.e., the employer and employee, is legal and not based on "moral grounds". Courts have upheld this argument several times.
A classic example of this is when about a decade ago, the Lucknow High Court allowed the marriage between two female constables. The marriage did not have any impact on their service in the police force.
Secondly, the court has also ruled that singing the national anthem is not anti-national. Singing the national anthem should not be made compulsory in schools.
A company can terminate an employee if the employee is involved in any act that tarnishes the image of the company. Having a child before marriage is purely the personal affair of the female employee and should not be seen vis-a-vis her employment. All she is asking for is what is legally due to her.
Suppose, for a moment, a male employee becomes a father or is about to become a father well before his marriage. Would you terminate him because of his so-called "immoral" act? Possibly, he will not disclose his personal affair to company officials, or even if he does, he would not request maternity leave as he is not entitled to it. That's where the catch lies!
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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May I remind you that employees can be suspended or terminated for "any action that involves moral turpitude" and not necessarily for an "immoral act".
The relationship between the two parties involved in question, i.e., the employer and employee, is legal and not based on "moral grounds". Courts have upheld this argument several times.
A classic example of this is when about a decade ago, the Lucknow High Court allowed the marriage between two female constables. The marriage did not have any impact on their service in the police force.
Secondly, the court has also ruled that singing the national anthem is not anti-national. Singing the national anthem should not be made compulsory in schools.
A company can terminate an employee if the employee is involved in any act that tarnishes the image of the company. Having a child before marriage is purely the personal affair of the female employee and should not be seen vis-a-vis her employment. All she is asking for is what is legally due to her.
Suppose, for a moment, a male employee becomes a father or is about to become a father well before his marriage. Would you terminate him because of his so-called "immoral" act? Possibly, he will not disclose his personal affair to company officials, or even if he does, he would not request maternity leave as he is not entitled to it. That's where the catch lies!
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Siva,
I think I might have misinterpreted your statement. Thank you for taking the time and helping me understand the wrongful perception I arrived at regarding your statement.
I support Dinesh, and I also echo what he has stated. The person in question has been provided maternity benefits because she is a female, not based on whether she is morally right or not.
Thank you,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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I think I might have misinterpreted your statement. Thank you for taking the time and helping me understand the wrongful perception I arrived at regarding your statement.
I support Dinesh, and I also echo what he has stated. The person in question has been provided maternity benefits because she is a female, not based on whether she is morally right or not.
Thank you,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Joe,
It is mentioned nowhere in the Maternity Benefits Act of 1961 that women should be married to be eligible for pregnancy benefits. All the benefits as per Section 5 of the Act are to be conferred to the pregnant lady. Therefore, the lady can proceed legally against your organization. As an HR professional, I am confident that you would be able to convince your management.
For more information, please visit the following link: [Laws - The Maternity Benefits Act, 1961](http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/maternitybenact/maternitybenact.htm).
Regards,
Rohit
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It is mentioned nowhere in the Maternity Benefits Act of 1961 that women should be married to be eligible for pregnancy benefits. All the benefits as per Section 5 of the Act are to be conferred to the pregnant lady. Therefore, the lady can proceed legally against your organization. As an HR professional, I am confident that you would be able to convince your management.
For more information, please visit the following link: [Laws - The Maternity Benefits Act, 1961](http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/maternitybenact/maternitybenact.htm).
Regards,
Rohit
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(Fact Checked)-The user's reply is correct. The Maternity Benefits Act of 1961 does not have a requirement for a woman to be married to avail maternity benefits. The pregnant lady can legally proceed against the organization if terminated. (1 Acknowledge point)
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Hi Joe,
If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:
a. Grant her the maternity leave.
b. Arrange counseling for her team members to ensure they treat her as they would any other colleague who had a baby.
c. Ensure that management will not hold this against her during her future appraisals.
If you consider all of the above three actions, they all fall under my job description as an HR personnel.
Regarding the pressure from management, I would wait and see if the immediate reaction is a result of panic or more permanent. If it is the former, it won't be an issue later. If it is the latter, I would show a print of this post to my employer after editing (like removing my name, etc., so that I can be on safer ground. I can say that this was posted by HR of some other company).
8-)
Murali.
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If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:
a. Grant her the maternity leave.
b. Arrange counseling for her team members to ensure they treat her as they would any other colleague who had a baby.
c. Ensure that management will not hold this against her during her future appraisals.
If you consider all of the above three actions, they all fall under my job description as an HR personnel.
Regarding the pressure from management, I would wait and see if the immediate reaction is a result of panic or more permanent. If it is the former, it won't be an issue later. If it is the latter, I would show a print of this post to my employer after editing (like removing my name, etc., so that I can be on safer ground. I can say that this was posted by HR of some other company).
8-)
Murali.
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In Australia, we have very strict anti-discrimination and diversity laws. You mentioned that this person is a good employee, and that should be your focus when approaching your seniors. It is important to hold onto good staff as they are very hard to find.
Cheers
From Australia, Adelaide
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Cheers
From Australia, Adelaide
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Hi All, Heare I am attaching a document for Maternity Benefit Act 1961. Regards, Rupesh G. Shingote.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Pregnancy is a fact. The child, expected, is a fact. Maternity leave is for women to recuperate and take care of the child. The child is not responsible for the technicalities of marriage or otherwise of the mother.
The lady has to be given maternity leave and any other benefits and facilities that are available as per the contract, law, custom, and usage of your company. Advise your employer not to question the parenthood of the child. That is not your business.
By the way, I am not one of the young generations but aged 62 and retired from the government after 42 years of service.
O Abdul Hameed
Formerly Additional Commissioner, ESIC
From India, Coimbatore
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The lady has to be given maternity leave and any other benefits and facilities that are available as per the contract, law, custom, and usage of your company. Advise your employer not to question the parenthood of the child. That is not your business.
By the way, I am not one of the young generations but aged 62 and retired from the government after 42 years of service.
O Abdul Hameed
Formerly Additional Commissioner, ESIC
From India, Coimbatore
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(Fact Checked)-The user's reply is correct. It aligns with the legal requirement to provide maternity leave and benefits without questioning the marital status of the employee. (1 Acknowledge point)
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It's wonderful to see so many men standing in support of a woman who chooses to live life on her terms. As long as one is performing well, you don't have the right to terminate her services.
Whether a woman gets pregnant before marriage or after it, it's her own choice, and no organization should interfere in her personal decisions.
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Whether a woman gets pregnant before marriage or after it, it's her own choice, and no organization should interfere in her personal decisions.
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Dear Joe,
I am sure you would have received many responses regarding this topic by now. Please note that the Maternity Benefit Act of 1961 clearly states that an unmarried woman is eligible for maternity leave if she has completed 80 working days in the year preceding delivery.
Regards,
Sandesh Murchy
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I am sure you would have received many responses regarding this topic by now. Please note that the Maternity Benefit Act of 1961 clearly states that an unmarried woman is eligible for maternity leave if she has completed 80 working days in the year preceding delivery.
Regards,
Sandesh Murchy
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(Fact Checked)-The user's reply is [B]correct[/B]. It accurately mentions that under the Maternity Benefit Act of 1961, unmarried women are eligible for maternity leave if they have completed 80 working days in the year preceding delivery. (1 Acknowledge point)
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HI ANURAG YOU ARE RIGHT THAT ANY BODY CAN’T INTERFERE HER PERSONAL LIFE BUT LIKE THIS CASE CAN EFFECT THE COMPANY’S WORKING ENVIRONMENT & OTHER EMPLOYEES. REGARDS VIPIN
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Dear Joe,
As they say, while maternity is a certainty, paternity is a probability. You cannot deny her right to have a baby and all the benefits flowing out of industrial law. Whether the lady is married or not, or whether she discloses the name of her child's father or not, maternity is a gift nature has bestowed upon her. Who are we to deny her the benefits? This opinion is not philosophical but out of innumerable judgments delivered in similar cases all over India.
P.R. Joshi
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As they say, while maternity is a certainty, paternity is a probability. You cannot deny her right to have a baby and all the benefits flowing out of industrial law. Whether the lady is married or not, or whether she discloses the name of her child's father or not, maternity is a gift nature has bestowed upon her. Who are we to deny her the benefits? This opinion is not philosophical but out of innumerable judgments delivered in similar cases all over India.
P.R. Joshi
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Hello,
Firstly, the employee has the right to a 'Maternity Claim'. There is no way an employer can consider other related clauses.
Secondly, there are a few organizations that clearly define organizational ethics and morale. Unless specified in the appointment letter or against any of the misconducts specified in the Company's certified model standing orders, no legal action can be initiated in this case.
Lastly, you should take ownership of the decision. Therefore, check your internal integrity and negotiate with the employee for a decision that is most suitable for her and the organization.
KVSRS
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Firstly, the employee has the right to a 'Maternity Claim'. There is no way an employer can consider other related clauses.
Secondly, there are a few organizations that clearly define organizational ethics and morale. Unless specified in the appointment letter or against any of the misconducts specified in the Company's certified model standing orders, no legal action can be initiated in this case.
Lastly, you should take ownership of the decision. Therefore, check your internal integrity and negotiate with the employee for a decision that is most suitable for her and the organization.
KVSRS
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Hi All,
I am so glad to see all the support for this lady who has taken the decision to become a single mom. I fully agree that she should be granted maternity leave and all the benefits that go with it as per company policies. Glad to see we have all come of age where performance and the fact that she is a good employee are appreciated, rather than focusing on her personal life and choices.
Regards,
Brandy
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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I am so glad to see all the support for this lady who has taken the decision to become a single mom. I fully agree that she should be granted maternity leave and all the benefits that go with it as per company policies. Glad to see we have all come of age where performance and the fact that she is a good employee are appreciated, rather than focusing on her personal life and choices.
Regards,
Brandy
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Well, let's see what management has decided.
Dear Joe, please provide us with updates. It is very challenging to be a single parent, especially in India where life is tough. At every stage, you have to explain and tell... Hence, many prefer to abort the child. Well, let's see what happens in this case.
From India, Pune
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Dear Joe, please provide us with updates. It is very challenging to be a single parent, especially in India where life is tough. At every stage, you have to explain and tell... Hence, many prefer to abort the child. Well, let's see what happens in this case.
From India, Pune
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Dear all,
I'm glad and happy to see everyone's reactions. They are all mixed (like sweet and sour)... :) and I really appreciate everyone's honest opinion about the case. I need to discuss this issue with the management and then will surely inform all of you of the final decision. Thanks a ton for your valuable inputs.
From Korea
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I'm glad and happy to see everyone's reactions. They are all mixed (like sweet and sour)... :) and I really appreciate everyone's honest opinion about the case. I need to discuss this issue with the management and then will surely inform all of you of the final decision. Thanks a ton for your valuable inputs.
From Korea
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Dear Joe,
How come an organization will get a bad name if an employee gets pregnant without marriage? Will the converse be true and applied to in the case of male employees also? You need to tell your higher management that they are no one to direct and control employees' very personal affairs unless there is some gross misconduct which can be called "moral turpitude" and has a direct nexus with employment. Also, see your service rules/standing orders to check whether pregnancy without marriage is a misconduct.
Please note that the Maternity Benefit Act 1961 doesn't lay down any precondition of marriage. Also, please see Sections 12(1) B and 21 of the Act. Your management will face music if it terminates someone on the grounds mentioned by you.
Regards,
Mohan
From India
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How come an organization will get a bad name if an employee gets pregnant without marriage? Will the converse be true and applied to in the case of male employees also? You need to tell your higher management that they are no one to direct and control employees' very personal affairs unless there is some gross misconduct which can be called "moral turpitude" and has a direct nexus with employment. Also, see your service rules/standing orders to check whether pregnancy without marriage is a misconduct.
Please note that the Maternity Benefit Act 1961 doesn't lay down any precondition of marriage. Also, please see Sections 12(1) B and 21 of the Act. Your management will face music if it terminates someone on the grounds mentioned by you.
Regards,
Mohan
From India
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(Fact Checked)-[B]Response[/B]: The Maternity Benefit Act 1961 does not consider marital status for maternity benefits. Terminating based on pregnancy without marriage is discriminatory. Check your organization's policies. (1 Acknowledge point)
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:-Phello there what i feel is would it be a problem if she is married or no leave is a leave so give it of accrding to me
From India, Warangal
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From India, Warangal
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Dear Joe,
Good post. It will help many people to stop discrimination against their employees. As per the law, maternity leave can be availed by any female employee who has worked continuously for 80 days in the previous 12 months immediately preceding her delivery date. Any female employee can file a suit against her employer in case she is not granted such a benefit.
Thanks,
Manmeet
From United States
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Good post. It will help many people to stop discrimination against their employees. As per the law, maternity leave can be availed by any female employee who has worked continuously for 80 days in the previous 12 months immediately preceding her delivery date. Any female employee can file a suit against her employer in case she is not granted such a benefit.
Thanks,
Manmeet
From United States
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply contains accurate information regarding maternity leave eligibility and the right to file a suit if not granted. It aligns with labor laws protecting pregnant employees. (1 Acknowledge point)
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From United States
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Hi Joe,
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is a rare incidence, and unless we come across issues like this, we wouldn't think of such scenarios. The kind of response you've got is amazing. I'd request everyone to share such different experiences.
- Prabaharan
From India
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Thank you for sharing your experience. This is a rare incidence, and unless we come across issues like this, we wouldn't think of such scenarios. The kind of response you've got is amazing. I'd request everyone to share such different experiences.
- Prabaharan
From India
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Mental growth is a later phase. What people need to do now is learn to accept the change that our society is undergoing, which once done will lead to mental growth.
We all need to know the limits we cannot trespass. In an organization, we are judged by our performance and abilities, not our personal lives. So why go down that lane at all?
Legal battles between the organization and employees should be set aside; this is a case of an organization's emotional quotient being put to the test. It's time your organization keeps within its boundaries (reads minds its own business) and operates as per the HR laws laid down.
Regards,
Gogo
From India, Pune
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We all need to know the limits we cannot trespass. In an organization, we are judged by our performance and abilities, not our personal lives. So why go down that lane at all?
Legal battles between the organization and employees should be set aside; this is a case of an organization's emotional quotient being put to the test. It's time your organization keeps within its boundaries (reads minds its own business) and operates as per the HR laws laid down.
Regards,
Gogo
From India, Pune
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Hi Joe, respect her feelings and let the management help her in the best possible way, as she is the best performer, just look at her work and not her personal life. thanks sadhana
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Hi guys,
I have read your conversations, but as a matter of fact, a company has every right to terminate this lady on the grounds of immoral behavior. Companies nowadays focus on Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) to establish their presence in ethical realms. If, by any rule, they find this kind of behavior negatively impacting the company, they have every right to terminate her. They are here to conduct business, not to operate as non-governmental organizations (NGOs), and they cannot risk tarnishing their reputation by allowing such socially unacceptable behavior in India.
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I have read your conversations, but as a matter of fact, a company has every right to terminate this lady on the grounds of immoral behavior. Companies nowadays focus on Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) to establish their presence in ethical realms. If, by any rule, they find this kind of behavior negatively impacting the company, they have every right to terminate her. They are here to conduct business, not to operate as non-governmental organizations (NGOs), and they cannot risk tarnishing their reputation by allowing such socially unacceptable behavior in India.
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Hi Joe,
I hope now you have a clear view of thinking about what should be done in this situation. I would like to add two words to this, which I believe is HR - Human Relations. If we can maintain this with our employees, then our company will never face problems in retaining employees.
This is my view, and I am practicing it, doing great, and facing fewer problems. What do you guys say?
From India, Mumbai
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I hope now you have a clear view of thinking about what should be done in this situation. I would like to add two words to this, which I believe is HR - Human Relations. If we can maintain this with our employees, then our company will never face problems in retaining employees.
This is my view, and I am practicing it, doing great, and facing fewer problems. What do you guys say?
From India, Mumbai
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Hi All,
As far as it's related to court, I don't think there is any law in India that can support the company if Management will terminate her. Overall, for the company, personal life is insignificant. If she needs maternity leave, then the company has to provide it.
Aakanksha
From India, Delhi
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As far as it's related to court, I don't think there is any law in India that can support the company if Management will terminate her. Overall, for the company, personal life is insignificant. If she needs maternity leave, then the company has to provide it.
Aakanksha
From India, Delhi
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I'm really impressed with Mr. Abdul Hameed's and Octavious's views and support their opinion on this. She wants to raise her child being single. Others should not bother about it, and the company should be more concerned about the work, not about her personal life. What kind of MNC is this? I went on assignment to Houston and saw quite a number of single mothers there.
Regards,
J
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Regards,
J
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Let alone termination, the organization must come forward to help the woman. If the organization is worried about moral issues and the organization's reputation, rest assured, the organization's negative decision and reaction may backfire! The gossip may last for a while, but the employees' life will be in for a change depending on this decision. Even if the girl may have done something morally incorrect, the organization cannot decide to punish her! Regards, Shikha
"When the mind gives up, follow your heart"
From India, Mumbai
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"When the mind gives up, follow your heart"
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Friends,
I agree with Anurag and other members. But when a pregnant employee can avail the maternity leave, just 6 weeks before her delivery date, I have doubts about what the management was doing all these days. Also, if the person responsible for making her pregnant is working in the same organization, what action is the management going to take against him? Is the organization's dignity rested solely with one employee?
She has every right to take legal action against the company with the support of the law. So, in my opinion, your management should not interfere in the personal life of a person. Nowhere in the Maternity Act is it mentioned that a pregnant employee should be legally married. So, my dear friend Joe, go ahead and let the management sanction her leave; otherwise, if she goes legal, the company will have to face the consequences.
Regards,
Sree
From United States
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I agree with Anurag and other members. But when a pregnant employee can avail the maternity leave, just 6 weeks before her delivery date, I have doubts about what the management was doing all these days. Also, if the person responsible for making her pregnant is working in the same organization, what action is the management going to take against him? Is the organization's dignity rested solely with one employee?
She has every right to take legal action against the company with the support of the law. So, in my opinion, your management should not interfere in the personal life of a person. Nowhere in the Maternity Act is it mentioned that a pregnant employee should be legally married. So, my dear friend Joe, go ahead and let the management sanction her leave; otherwise, if she goes legal, the company will have to face the consequences.
Regards,
Sree
From United States
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I agree with Anurag.
Even logically, the ACT does not say that only a married woman can apply for maternity leave. We should rather respect the individual's decision to being a single parent. The company should not terminate the employee on moral or ethical grounds.
I am really thankful to Joe for bringing up such a particular case. It's really appreciated.
Regards,
Shailja Singh Apte
From India, Mumbai
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Even logically, the ACT does not say that only a married woman can apply for maternity leave. We should rather respect the individual's decision to being a single parent. The company should not terminate the employee on moral or ethical grounds.
I am really thankful to Joe for bringing up such a particular case. It's really appreciated.
Regards,
Shailja Singh Apte
From India, Mumbai
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As most of our friends have pointed out, you cannot terminate an employee on the grounds that she is pregnant outside of marriage. The maternity laws do not state anywhere that only married pregnant women can avail of maternity leave.
In trying to protect its reputation, the organization will end up damaging its own reputation if the lady in question sues the company for wrongful termination and discrimination.
From India, Pune
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In trying to protect its reputation, the organization will end up damaging its own reputation if the lady in question sues the company for wrongful termination and discrimination.
From India, Pune
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply is correct. (1 Acknowledge point)
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Dear All,
In statutory compliances, there is no provision stating that a married pregnant woman can take only these leaves. She can also take these leaves.
Please consider taking a humanitarian view in this case, as we may not know the condition she is facing.
H.R. means putting oneself in another's shoes.
Regards,
Ranjeet (Jeeni)
From India, New Delhi
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In statutory compliances, there is no provision stating that a married pregnant woman can take only these leaves. She can also take these leaves.
Please consider taking a humanitarian view in this case, as we may not know the condition she is facing.
H.R. means putting oneself in another's shoes.
Regards,
Ranjeet (Jeeni)
From India, New Delhi
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Indeed, unless your organization wants to get into a legal hassle of not allowing a woman employee for maternity leave :), terminating her will be one legal hassle and also a shock to the organization's goodwill (consider what damage a parting disgruntled employee can do).
I do not know the name of the organization you work for; however, if your organization claims to be an "equal opportunity employer," an action taken in terms of termination can lead to a contradiction of the claim! I appreciate the feedback that most of our HR fraternity members have given. So, there's nothing much I can add.
It would be in the organization's interest to support her instead. Job rotation or work from home is the best idea in case your management fears the so-called "social stigma." HR builds teams... and this is one chance that you've got!
From India, Pune
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I do not know the name of the organization you work for; however, if your organization claims to be an "equal opportunity employer," an action taken in terms of termination can lead to a contradiction of the claim! I appreciate the feedback that most of our HR fraternity members have given. So, there's nothing much I can add.
It would be in the organization's interest to support her instead. Job rotation or work from home is the best idea in case your management fears the so-called "social stigma." HR builds teams... and this is one chance that you've got!
From India, Pune
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Hi there,
Were you able to find a solution to the problem regarding the company's handling of the incident? The company should consider this as an accident rather than an incident. Companies do help and consider accidents, often going as far as extending leaves with pay. It was a nice case to learn about morality versus legality versus human values.
Marine
From India, Mumbai
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Were you able to find a solution to the problem regarding the company's handling of the incident? The company should consider this as an accident rather than an incident. Companies do help and consider accidents, often going as far as extending leaves with pay. It was a nice case to learn about morality versus legality versus human values.
Marine
From India, Mumbai
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Dear All,
I have gone through all the conversations in this regard. There are three aspects to consider: humanitarian, organizational, and legal.
Regarding the organization, even if it might not be explicitly stated in the policy, this is a matter of dignity. None of us would want this situation (getting pregnant without marriage) for any of our family members, whether it is mentioned in the constitution or not.
Being a girl does not mean she has accepted or confessed, so she should not be treated as privileged. I believe the organization has the right to terminate her employment.
As far as the legalities are concerned, if it is not clearly outlined in the policy that it applies only to married employees, then you all should refer back to local laws.
I understand that my statement may come across as rude and strict, which many people may not like, but I have stated the facts, albeit harsh ones.
Regards,
Sultan Mughal
HR Manager
+92 333 223 1122
From Pakistan, Karachi
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I have gone through all the conversations in this regard. There are three aspects to consider: humanitarian, organizational, and legal.
Regarding the organization, even if it might not be explicitly stated in the policy, this is a matter of dignity. None of us would want this situation (getting pregnant without marriage) for any of our family members, whether it is mentioned in the constitution or not.
Being a girl does not mean she has accepted or confessed, so she should not be treated as privileged. I believe the organization has the right to terminate her employment.
As far as the legalities are concerned, if it is not clearly outlined in the policy that it applies only to married employees, then you all should refer back to local laws.
I understand that my statement may come across as rude and strict, which many people may not like, but I have stated the facts, albeit harsh ones.
Regards,
Sultan Mughal
HR Manager
+92 333 223 1122
From Pakistan, Karachi
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Dear All,
I have gone through all the conversation in this regard. Look, it has 3 aspects: humanitarian, organizational, and legal. For the organization, you see, though it might not be written in the policy, but yes, this is a matter of dignity. None of us like this thing (getting pregnant without marriage) for any of our family members, whether it's there in the constitution or not. Being a girl, it's not that she has accepted or confessed so she should be treated privileged. I think the organization has the right to terminate her. As far as the legalities are concerned, if it's not clearly mentioned in the policy that it's only for married employees that you people have to refer back to local law. I know I have given a very rude and strict statement, which most people won't like, but I have stated the facts rather brutal facts.
Regards,
Sultan Mughal
HR Manager
+92 333 223 1122
I do understand your sentiments... honestly, if you are working in an international culture, you need to tend and solve matters responsibly. Perhaps your view is more culturally based than humanitarian. Open up, people, the world's changing...
Pardon me, I mean no offense... it's just that it's hurting to see a narrow-minded approach from an HR person. (strictly personal opinion)
From India, Pune
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I have gone through all the conversation in this regard. Look, it has 3 aspects: humanitarian, organizational, and legal. For the organization, you see, though it might not be written in the policy, but yes, this is a matter of dignity. None of us like this thing (getting pregnant without marriage) for any of our family members, whether it's there in the constitution or not. Being a girl, it's not that she has accepted or confessed so she should be treated privileged. I think the organization has the right to terminate her. As far as the legalities are concerned, if it's not clearly mentioned in the policy that it's only for married employees that you people have to refer back to local law. I know I have given a very rude and strict statement, which most people won't like, but I have stated the facts rather brutal facts.
Regards,
Sultan Mughal
HR Manager
+92 333 223 1122
I do understand your sentiments... honestly, if you are working in an international culture, you need to tend and solve matters responsibly. Perhaps your view is more culturally based than humanitarian. Open up, people, the world's changing...
Pardon me, I mean no offense... it's just that it's hurting to see a narrow-minded approach from an HR person. (strictly personal opinion)
From India, Pune
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Boss, there is no question of immorality or ethics in this case. It is legally accepted if the woman is pregnant before marriage. If the employer is trying to terminate the employee, it is unethical and illegal. The employee can sue the company for this action.
Do you terminate employees if they get divorced from their spouses? This is a similar case. Please inform your management that the employee can sue them and explain that it is unethical to behave in such a manner.
From India, Bangalore
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Do you terminate employees if they get divorced from their spouses? This is a similar case. Please inform your management that the employee can sue them and explain that it is unethical to behave in such a manner.
From India, Bangalore
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Well, nothing is narrow-minded or broad-minded. Today, you encourage one woman; tomorrow, another one will come and say she is pregnant, and all organizations will start following this policy. So, tomorrow, more people will choose not to get married and start having children like this. Mostly girls will join organizations and get pregnant to avail maternity benefits.
What the hell is going on? Is this a workplace or some inappropriate place?
Even though there are MNCs and international exposure, it is not easy to eradicate Indian culture, as the employees are Indians.
So, if you call following our culture narrow-minded, then consider why you follow your own culture, whatever it may be. Why do you pray to god and perform rituals before starting any work? Why do you perform rituals when purchasing a new product? Why?
Although it is medically possible, it is a crime to bear a child in India without getting married, regardless of what the law may say.
From India, Pune
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What the hell is going on? Is this a workplace or some inappropriate place?
Even though there are MNCs and international exposure, it is not easy to eradicate Indian culture, as the employees are Indians.
So, if you call following our culture narrow-minded, then consider why you follow your own culture, whatever it may be. Why do you pray to god and perform rituals before starting any work? Why do you perform rituals when purchasing a new product? Why?
Although it is medically possible, it is a crime to bear a child in India without getting married, regardless of what the law may say.
From India, Pune
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First, see whether it's applicable to your organization or not.
Applicability:
The Maternity Benefit Act extends to the whole of India and is applicable to every factory, mine, or plantation including those belonging to the Government, irrespective of the number of employees, and to every shop or establishment wherein 10 or more persons are employed or were employed on any day of the preceding 12 months. The State Government may extend the Act to any other establishment or class of establishments, industrial, commercial, agricultural, or otherwise. The Act, however, does not apply to any such factory or other establishment to which the provisions of the ESI Act are applicable for the time being. But where the factory is governed under ESI and the woman employee is not qualified to claim maternity benefit under section 50 of that Act because her wages are > Rs. 3500 per month as specified under section 2(9) of the ESI or for any other reason, then such a woman employee is entitled to claim maternity benefit under this Act until she becomes qualified to claim maternity benefit under the ESI Act.
From India, Pune
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Applicability:
The Maternity Benefit Act extends to the whole of India and is applicable to every factory, mine, or plantation including those belonging to the Government, irrespective of the number of employees, and to every shop or establishment wherein 10 or more persons are employed or were employed on any day of the preceding 12 months. The State Government may extend the Act to any other establishment or class of establishments, industrial, commercial, agricultural, or otherwise. The Act, however, does not apply to any such factory or other establishment to which the provisions of the ESI Act are applicable for the time being. But where the factory is governed under ESI and the woman employee is not qualified to claim maternity benefit under section 50 of that Act because her wages are > Rs. 3500 per month as specified under section 2(9) of the ESI or for any other reason, then such a woman employee is entitled to claim maternity benefit under this Act until she becomes qualified to claim maternity benefit under the ESI Act.
From India, Pune
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply contains accurate information regarding the applicability of the Maternity Benefit Act in India. The Act applies to various types of establishments and provides maternity benefits to eligible women employees. Well done! (1 Acknowledge point)
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Just for reference, I got this law of the country Philippines act, wherein it is clearly mentioned:
COMMONWEALTH ACT NO. 647 [COLOR=#ccffff].
AN ACT TO GRANT MATERNITY LEAVE TO MARRIED WOMEN WHO ARE IN THE SERVICE OF THE GOVERNMENT OR OF ANY OF ITS INSTRUMENTALITIES. chan robles virtual law library
Section 1. Married women who are permanently or temporarily appointed in the service of the Government, or in any of its branches, subdivisions, agencies, or instrumentalities, including the corporations and enterprises owned or controlled by the Government, shall, in addition to the vacation and sick leave which they may enjoy now, be entitled in case of pregnancy to a maternity leave of sixty days subject to the following conditions.chan robles virtual law library
(a) Permanent and regular employees who have rendered two or more years of continuous service shall be entitled to maternity leave with full pay;chan robles virtual law library
(b) Permanent and regular employees who have rendered less than two years of continuous service shall be entitled to half pay; and
(c) Temporary employees shall be entitled to maternity leave without pay and shall be readmitted to the service at the end of their leave. No employee shall be refused readmission to the service on the ground of absence on account of maternity.chan robles virtual law library
Sec. 2. The proper department head or chief of bureau or office shall, subject to the requirements of the public service, avoid the assignment of strenuous and fatiguing work to married women under their charge who are in a state of pregnancy.
Sec. 3. Any savings in the appropriation, allotment, or fund for salaries and wages, authorized for any fiscal year for the department of the government concerned, or for any of its branches, subdivisions, agencies, or instrumentalities, including corporations and enterprises owned or controlled by it, may be used for the temporary employment of substitute officers or employees to take the place of those who are granted maternity leave if the duties of the latter cannot be dispensed with without detriment to the service, and the same cannot be assigned to or distributed among the other employees already in the service.chan robles virtual law library
Sec. 4. This Act shall take effect upon its approval.chan robles virtual law library
NOTHING AS SUCH IS MENTIONED IN INDIAN ACTS
From India, Pune
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COMMONWEALTH ACT NO. 647 [COLOR=#ccffff].
AN ACT TO GRANT MATERNITY LEAVE TO MARRIED WOMEN WHO ARE IN THE SERVICE OF THE GOVERNMENT OR OF ANY OF ITS INSTRUMENTALITIES. chan robles virtual law library
Section 1. Married women who are permanently or temporarily appointed in the service of the Government, or in any of its branches, subdivisions, agencies, or instrumentalities, including the corporations and enterprises owned or controlled by the Government, shall, in addition to the vacation and sick leave which they may enjoy now, be entitled in case of pregnancy to a maternity leave of sixty days subject to the following conditions.chan robles virtual law library
(a) Permanent and regular employees who have rendered two or more years of continuous service shall be entitled to maternity leave with full pay;chan robles virtual law library
(b) Permanent and regular employees who have rendered less than two years of continuous service shall be entitled to half pay; and
(c) Temporary employees shall be entitled to maternity leave without pay and shall be readmitted to the service at the end of their leave. No employee shall be refused readmission to the service on the ground of absence on account of maternity.chan robles virtual law library
Sec. 2. The proper department head or chief of bureau or office shall, subject to the requirements of the public service, avoid the assignment of strenuous and fatiguing work to married women under their charge who are in a state of pregnancy.
Sec. 3. Any savings in the appropriation, allotment, or fund for salaries and wages, authorized for any fiscal year for the department of the government concerned, or for any of its branches, subdivisions, agencies, or instrumentalities, including corporations and enterprises owned or controlled by it, may be used for the temporary employment of substitute officers or employees to take the place of those who are granted maternity leave if the duties of the latter cannot be dispensed with without detriment to the service, and the same cannot be assigned to or distributed among the other employees already in the service.chan robles virtual law library
Sec. 4. This Act shall take effect upon its approval.chan robles virtual law library
NOTHING AS SUCH IS MENTIONED IN INDIAN ACTS
From India, Pune
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply is correct, emphasizing the illegality of terminating the employee due to pregnancy out of wedlock and affirming the legal right to maternity leave. (1 Acknowledge point)