My dear respected honorable seniors,
I would like to put up a case before you. In our company, I am working as HR, and we have only 11 employees, out of which 2 employees are ladies with small children. One lady always leaves the office at the correct leaving time, even though her house is just 2 km away from the office and almost comes late daily. Being in a metro city, many employees live far but come before office hours, but this lady, despite living nearby, comes 5-10 minutes late. In our office, we have a rule for late marking for deducting leaves, if there are more than three late markings. Also, most of the time, they are on the phone, on personal calls wasting precious office time. Our company is a startup, and if in the initial stages good input and hard work are not put in, then ultimately the company will be closed down. Only some employees realize this and are working hard.
I told our office VP that she came late three times, so we need to deduct her leaves, but he told not to do so, as she is a lady? Now, what the hell is this? I really don't understand. I think in most companies you will be treating male and female on par, we also treat, that the lady gets the same salary as her male counterpart, same benefits, why this additional relaxation to her. I am of the view that a rule is a rule, be it female or male, and if anyone can't follow it, action should be taken, and they should be issued a memo, warning for late coming.
Now, being a startup company, employees are working hard, staying almost half - 1 hour after office hours also. I can sense (sixth sense) that these hardworking employees (all males) who are also newly joined (since this is a startup) are getting a feeling that when this lady is not taking the job seriously, why should we work hard, which is very common because we are all human beings, now I feel either the lady should face loss of pay or be given a warning. Because it's spoiling the work environment and creating ego clashes between employees. Our office time is 05:30, and exactly at 05:30-05:32, she leaves the office, when other employees see this, they feel discouraged to do their work. Also, she has not been given any work. Our VP is also an old person, having old thoughts, but I feel in the long run these ego clashes between employees will never help the company to grow, this is my main concern.
As other employees are technical and senior to me, I can't tell them anything, even though they know this, but no solution to this problem. It's like in 11 employees itself there are groups of 2-3 employees in their own world, not aware of other groups, etc. I feel when all 11 unite and work, then only the company will progress.
From India, Madras
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116I would like to put up a case before you. In our company, I am working as HR, and we have only 11 employees, out of which 2 employees are ladies with small children. One lady always leaves the office at the correct leaving time, even though her house is just 2 km away from the office and almost comes late daily. Being in a metro city, many employees live far but come before office hours, but this lady, despite living nearby, comes 5-10 minutes late. In our office, we have a rule for late marking for deducting leaves, if there are more than three late markings. Also, most of the time, they are on the phone, on personal calls wasting precious office time. Our company is a startup, and if in the initial stages good input and hard work are not put in, then ultimately the company will be closed down. Only some employees realize this and are working hard.
I told our office VP that she came late three times, so we need to deduct her leaves, but he told not to do so, as she is a lady? Now, what the hell is this? I really don't understand. I think in most companies you will be treating male and female on par, we also treat, that the lady gets the same salary as her male counterpart, same benefits, why this additional relaxation to her. I am of the view that a rule is a rule, be it female or male, and if anyone can't follow it, action should be taken, and they should be issued a memo, warning for late coming.
Now, being a startup company, employees are working hard, staying almost half - 1 hour after office hours also. I can sense (sixth sense) that these hardworking employees (all males) who are also newly joined (since this is a startup) are getting a feeling that when this lady is not taking the job seriously, why should we work hard, which is very common because we are all human beings, now I feel either the lady should face loss of pay or be given a warning. Because it's spoiling the work environment and creating ego clashes between employees. Our office time is 05:30, and exactly at 05:30-05:32, she leaves the office, when other employees see this, they feel discouraged to do their work. Also, she has not been given any work. Our VP is also an old person, having old thoughts, but I feel in the long run these ego clashes between employees will never help the company to grow, this is my main concern.
As other employees are technical and senior to me, I can't tell them anything, even though they know this, but no solution to this problem. It's like in 11 employees itself there are groups of 2-3 employees in their own world, not aware of other groups, etc. I feel when all 11 unite and work, then only the company will progress.
From India, Madras
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First and foremost, being in a small team, you may find it challenging to connect with your colleagues. Don't worry if someone is not staying late or coming to the office late; focus on whether the tasks assigned to them are completed within an 8-hour duration.
If an individual's performance is not up to the mark, have a discussion with them about the company's vision and emphasize the importance of their role within the organization. Remember, everyone has a personal life, so avoid delving into personal matters that could complicate things.
From India, Coimbatore
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If an individual's performance is not up to the mark, have a discussion with them about the company's vision and emphasize the importance of their role within the organization. Remember, everyone has a personal life, so avoid delving into personal matters that could complicate things.
From India, Coimbatore
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Dear Ravi, This is an interesting issue that you have brought up. I also agree with what Asrar has said. If the lady is able to accomplish the task assigned well during the office hours, then being late or leaving exactly on time should be okay. That's the reason we really emphasize on flexible timing these days. You should speak to her and find out the reason why she is late most of the time. If being late is indispensable from her side due to unavoidable family reasons, then see how that can be tackled. The company should not lose a trained asset because of this reason.
As an HR professional, you have to play a critical role. Don't see her as a demotivating factor; instead, motivate yourself and set an example for the other male colleagues by focusing on your work. Appreciate your friends for staying late and coming on time. This positive reinforcement can bring about change. All the best!
It would be beneficial if you also assess the situation of the other female colleague.
Binapani
From India, Delhi
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As an HR professional, you have to play a critical role. Don't see her as a demotivating factor; instead, motivate yourself and set an example for the other male colleagues by focusing on your work. Appreciate your friends for staying late and coming on time. This positive reinforcement can bring about change. All the best!
It would be beneficial if you also assess the situation of the other female colleague.
Binapani
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ravi,
Others have given you some solutions, so let me explain what the situation could be based on my experience. It's possible that the lady has to arrange for the child to be looked after (say by a child minder, who does not open on time); and also having to pick up the child on time. I also used to leave work on the dot to pick our children up, as my wife also worked but did not finish an hour after I did.
Like others have said, the question is: does she finish work allotted to her on time and whether she is a good worker? You have not said what her nature of work is. Once my boss told me, "You may not break the RULES but you can bend them." You have mentioned there are two ladies; do they do the same work?
It's possible that all the males are still young and have no children, or have someone looking after their kids. The lady may not have anyone to help. Without fully knowing her background, it's difficult to pass a verdict. I know that the workplace is not a charity, but it can be humane.
I have known workers that have stayed behind but who produced less than a full day's work when compared to someone that came late and went early. The workers were spending more time gossiping and on breaks. One of the workers had said it's better to be at work than at home where (s)he got more headache from the spouse.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Others have given you some solutions, so let me explain what the situation could be based on my experience. It's possible that the lady has to arrange for the child to be looked after (say by a child minder, who does not open on time); and also having to pick up the child on time. I also used to leave work on the dot to pick our children up, as my wife also worked but did not finish an hour after I did.
Like others have said, the question is: does she finish work allotted to her on time and whether she is a good worker? You have not said what her nature of work is. Once my boss told me, "You may not break the RULES but you can bend them." You have mentioned there are two ladies; do they do the same work?
It's possible that all the males are still young and have no children, or have someone looking after their kids. The lady may not have anyone to help. Without fully knowing her background, it's difficult to pass a verdict. I know that the workplace is not a charity, but it can be humane.
I have known workers that have stayed behind but who produced less than a full day's work when compared to someone that came late and went early. The workers were spending more time gossiping and on breaks. One of the workers had said it's better to be at work than at home where (s)he got more headache from the spouse.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Dear all,
Thank you very much for your inputs. We have a strict time for in, and late marking is treated as indiscipline. It might sound weird, but this is our culture as we are not into IT, and all funda...
Here we don't have exact KRA defined as our VP is too busy to daily ask that lady whether she does her work or not. From my experience, I can make out that whether she has work or not, she leaves. Even if there is important work, she leaves at 5:30, which is not good. Since my VP is very busy, he is not getting time, but other employees who are working hard on their tasks for the development of the company feel depressed.
About the other lady, she is sincere in her work and stays late if required. She too has a kid, but she gives importance to her work.
Thank you.
From India, Madras
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Thank you very much for your inputs. We have a strict time for in, and late marking is treated as indiscipline. It might sound weird, but this is our culture as we are not into IT, and all funda...
Here we don't have exact KRA defined as our VP is too busy to daily ask that lady whether she does her work or not. From my experience, I can make out that whether she has work or not, she leaves. Even if there is important work, she leaves at 5:30, which is not good. Since my VP is very busy, he is not getting time, but other employees who are working hard on their tasks for the development of the company feel depressed.
About the other lady, she is sincere in her work and stays late if required. She too has a kid, but she gives importance to her work.
Thank you.
From India, Madras
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In my opinion, office timing should be applicable to all employees. It is important for individuals to be disciplined in their office timing. HR has the full authority to take action against such individuals after giving one or two warnings.
From India, Pondicherry
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From India, Pondicherry
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Dear Ravi,
I agree with Simhan's opinion, which reflects his wisdom, experience, and maturity.
You seem to be a young man; very enthusiastic to apply the rules in a typical blind-folded manner implying no discrimination and the principles of "equality". In fact, everyone tends to be like you in their initial years.
It is only with experience that one learns to "apply" the rules. While applying rules, one should take care of the principles of "positive" discrimination and view the whole thing in totality.
Giving due considerations on a case-by-case basis is also an accepted way of dispensing justice. Also, you might have heard of "exemplary punishment"!! If equality is everything; then why is a person "punished" to a greater extent for the same infringement where another person would get a lesser punishment??
Think over these issues too.
Justice and equality do not mean painting everyone with the same brush or closing one's eyes. There are "extenuating" circumstances; past records/performance; intentions; and inabilities, etc., that have to be taken into consideration.
Therefore, there is a difference if a new joiner or a bachelor comes late every day by 10 minutes and a married lady with small children, who has given years of continuous productive service, comes to the office late by 10 minutes.
If rules are to be applied blindly, there is no need for qualified professionals to do so; even an illiterate cowherd would suffice. Rules are made to achieve certain prime objectives such as efficiency, productivity, safety, etc., and are not meant to be a stick in the hands of HR persons to inflict "injury" on others. Such thinking, as you have expressed, does not serve any useful purpose nor endears the HR to the employees; which is a must if you are looking for 'engaged', motivated, high-performing employees.
Please ignore my words wherever you find them harsh, and just consider the essence of what I am trying to convey.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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I agree with Simhan's opinion, which reflects his wisdom, experience, and maturity.
You seem to be a young man; very enthusiastic to apply the rules in a typical blind-folded manner implying no discrimination and the principles of "equality". In fact, everyone tends to be like you in their initial years.
It is only with experience that one learns to "apply" the rules. While applying rules, one should take care of the principles of "positive" discrimination and view the whole thing in totality.
Giving due considerations on a case-by-case basis is also an accepted way of dispensing justice. Also, you might have heard of "exemplary punishment"!! If equality is everything; then why is a person "punished" to a greater extent for the same infringement where another person would get a lesser punishment??
Think over these issues too.
Justice and equality do not mean painting everyone with the same brush or closing one's eyes. There are "extenuating" circumstances; past records/performance; intentions; and inabilities, etc., that have to be taken into consideration.
Therefore, there is a difference if a new joiner or a bachelor comes late every day by 10 minutes and a married lady with small children, who has given years of continuous productive service, comes to the office late by 10 minutes.
If rules are to be applied blindly, there is no need for qualified professionals to do so; even an illiterate cowherd would suffice. Rules are made to achieve certain prime objectives such as efficiency, productivity, safety, etc., and are not meant to be a stick in the hands of HR persons to inflict "injury" on others. Such thinking, as you have expressed, does not serve any useful purpose nor endears the HR to the employees; which is a must if you are looking for 'engaged', motivated, high-performing employees.
Please ignore my words wherever you find them harsh, and just consider the essence of what I am trying to convey.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ravi,
Life is not that simple. I am not an HR person, but I have seen how HR in the companies that I have worked for have looked at each case on its merit. As yours is a start-up company, is the VP a major partner in the company?
You also say that all the IT personnel are senior to you. As the company's strength is only 11, I wonder why they even have a separate HR function! Do you undertake other work as well?
How do you know that the personal circumstances of the two ladies are the same? Maybe the VP knows the situation of the lady in question. Does he approve penalizing others if they are late? How many have been penalized in the last month? I can keep on raising questions to get an exact picture of the whole.
Once when I told my boss how things should be in principle (conduct a method study before setting rates using time study), the boss told me, "That's the way we do things here, and if you don't like it," and showed me the door. Hence, if the VP is not for imposing the rule, there is nothing you can do.
You can see my profile in "About Us" at
Have a nice day.
Simhan
Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.)
The University of Bolton, UK.
"It is never too late to learn or improve oneself"
From United Kingdom
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Life is not that simple. I am not an HR person, but I have seen how HR in the companies that I have worked for have looked at each case on its merit. As yours is a start-up company, is the VP a major partner in the company?
You also say that all the IT personnel are senior to you. As the company's strength is only 11, I wonder why they even have a separate HR function! Do you undertake other work as well?
How do you know that the personal circumstances of the two ladies are the same? Maybe the VP knows the situation of the lady in question. Does he approve penalizing others if they are late? How many have been penalized in the last month? I can keep on raising questions to get an exact picture of the whole.
Once when I told my boss how things should be in principle (conduct a method study before setting rates using time study), the boss told me, "That's the way we do things here, and if you don't like it," and showed me the door. Hence, if the VP is not for imposing the rule, there is nothing you can do.
You can see my profile in "About Us" at
Have a nice day.
Simhan
Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.)
The University of Bolton, UK.
"It is never too late to learn or improve oneself"
From United Kingdom
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