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Thread Started by #Anonymous

Hi Sir,

I was working with a company for 9 years with many accolades.. it was a great journey till the time I resigned and did a blunder mistake.

Few days before resigning, I sent an email to my personal ID, having my presentation on the project I did. It was blocked due to firewall and exception was raised.

Just on the last day, I was called for one-o-one with compliance, HR & Ops. They discussed what I did and asked me to write a apology letter. They also asked me to login to my personal mail and scanned my mailbox. Nothing was found.

After this I met with both compliance and HR and they both said, since the presentation didn't went out and didn't find anything else in your email box, the issue wont affect you.

I have a joined new company and a friend of mine told me (he's with HR), that they are planning to issue termination letter and a legal notice to me. I immediately called compliance officer and he said that he didn't even opened the case as the issue was resolved on that day only.

I am confused what to do. If they issue termination letter it will be caught in my BGC by current employer.

What can I do... I know I did mistake, so I co-operated in investigation and also gave written apology. Why the hell they want to spoil my career even with such significant long good past.

If they do so, can I counter sue them. The base would be if the issue was resolved why it came after my relieving with company specially when they know it will spoil my career.

Regards

Anonymous
21st December 2013 From India, Gurgaon
Dear Friend,

Please categorically tell the HR of your previous company that you will take legal action if you are not issued proper relieving letter. The law says that they need to conduct enquery as per procedure given under Industrial Disputes Act. Wherein it has been given that you have to first issue a show cause and only when you reply to it in writing and your explanation is found unsatisfactory they may constitute enquiry against you. In your case they have not done so. You can approach to Labour Commissioner of your area and get a proper releiving letter.

The Company HR cannot ruin somebodys carrier like this. There is one thing called quantum of punishment in labour laws. Your case doesnt deserves such an harsh punishment like this. Moreover it is the common principle of Law that you cannot give harsh punishment for petty offence. Please stand against such arbitrary action. All you got to do is to take help of some labour commissioner.

Best of luck.... Feel free to revert in case of any doubt...
21st December 2013 From India, New Delhi
Mr Kamal,
The ID Act do not have any provision on enquiry.Second thing, one can go to Labor Officials under ID Act only if he is a 'workmen' under Industrial Disputes Act.All persons cannot go to labour officials when terminated.
Varghese Mathew
09961266966
21st December 2013 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
Hi,
In My Opinion,Have meeting with concerned authority of the company and discuss your case openly the way you did it on this forum.Know the very policy guidelines of the company in respect of the case you are into.Gather the references and evidences in support of your case and then Proceed legally to resolve this issue.No company will be so harsh to do wrong with their employees.I feel there is simply a problem of understanding the case in totality.
Nevertheless, one thing can not be ruled out, and that is, if your act of mailing presentation details of project even accepted by you as mistakenly done action, could be viewed seriously depending on the vitality of the project to company.
So Be Careful in what ever action you take.
Best Wishes.
Bijay
21st December 2013 From India, Vadodara
Dear Mr. Mathew, Please go through the attached file and decide for yourself whether the same is not covered under Industrial Disputes Act. Your guidance is humbly solicited on the same.
22nd December 2013 From India, New Delhi

Attached Files
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File Type: pdf Domestic Enquiry.pdf (79.1 KB, 1450 views)

Dear Mr. Mathew,
Also i want to state and affirm on my stand that his offense is not big enough so much so that it warrant the punishment of dismissal without giving him the opportunity of being heard. Also under any Law of the land the rule of quantum of punishment is applicable and even if i assume that he is not a workman still he is covered under the principle of natural justice...
your views are invited on the same...
22nd December 2013 From India, New Delhi
Dear Kamal,
My response was with regard to your sentence"The law states that they have to conduct enquiry as per procedure given under Industrial Disputes Act."
For the information of all members would you kindly refer the section of ID Act which gives procedures for enquiry.Actually it do not have one.As far as labor law in India is concerned there is no legislation (except IESO Act 1946 to some extend) prescribing domestic enquiry.There is prescribed procedures foe Government servants.
In the file you attached also,there is no reference to ID Act.I agree that enquiry is desirable,though it is possible to terminate a workmen with out enquiry.
Varghese Mathew
22nd December 2013 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
Dear Sir,
You and I are one the same page on the need of Enquiry but all i want to add is that his offence is not big enough to be given the harsh punishment like termination and this type of case do need formal enquiry, if you want to terminate anyone.
22nd December 2013 From India, New Delhi
Dear Anonymous

Based on what you have shared

1. What you did was wrong. It will be even more complicated, if the presentation which you sent out contained confidential information or information which is not normally available to others in public.Also it is not clear if you have joined a competitor. If so, the situation gets complicated. Understand this very clearly - transmission of company's confidential information without company's specific consent is punishable under the law.

2. You mentioned that you have given an apology letter and it has been amicably settled before you leaving the company. But did you send such documents or presentations to your e mail id before the one where you were caught ? If so, the company may have all the right to proceed further on this matter.

3. You also seem to be getting worked up on "information" given by someone. Is it reliable info? If so, it will be a good idea to immediately contact your ex Boss, HR of ex company and request politely for a relieving letter. If your mistake was just a one time mistake, you should not have a problem. But if you have "by mistake" done it in the past, the situation is tricky.

4. Your good conduct and performance for a long period does not give you any right to take or pass confidential or restricted documents outside the company. It was company's property and you messed with it without permission. Do not mix up issues.

Meet the past company with genuine intent to solve this and request them for support.
22nd December 2013 From India, Mumbai
Dear Anonymous,

Are you a workman within the meaning of section 2(s) of the industrial dispute Act? If this is the case, Industrial Dispute Act 1947 within the meaning of section 2-A applies on you. applies on you. If not, you have first to see, the standing order/service conditions of your company as well as the conditions under-laid in your appointment letter. In any case, the authorities are bound by 'natural justice' and cannot deny you the same. Since termination is a major punishment, they have have to follow procedure laid down.

Before framing charges, they have to conduct preliminary investigation then issue you show cause, which if found unsatisfactory by the disciplinary authority can frame charges. A copy of the charge- sheet shall be delivered to the delinquent. A charge- sheet must contain substance of the imputation, statement of imputation, list of documents as well as list of witnesses. You have to reply that charge- sheet. If the disciplinary authority remains unsatisfied then only enquiry can be started.The departmental inquiry will start with the delinquent getting a 'help' in form of defense assistance. If you are punished, then you can go for appeal and then for review. Also, the punishment cannot be disproportionate.

I think, you may now work with a light heart.

Thanks.

Namitsushma
22nd December 2013 From India, Mumbai
#Anonymous
Thanks Everyone.. I worked with BPO MNC and they have this email policy of not sending data outside. My intent was to keep my good work in my records. And we both agree that this issue is punishable. However, my point here are:

1) After investigation it was found that the presentation didn't went out of network so no damage happened as it was blocked by firewall. Even I got the message in my mailbox. (Also said by compliance officer).

2) Both HR & Compliance officer told me that the issue is resolved and this will not impact my future.

3) The company has a policy of issue verbal warning, corrective action plans etc. for mistake and termination/legal action is top most punishment.

I am simply saying that I agree I did a mistake, gave written apology and also leaving their company. Why do they want to issue a termination which will kill my entire career specially when the damage didn't happened. Is it worth for anyone. Are they just spoiling my life to set an example. Is it a realistic punishment... they can simply blacklist me in their company and ask for monetory fine. Why termination. and if they do so, can I ask Indian judicial system to help me.
22nd December 2013 From India, Gurgaon
Dear, From the factual details given, you would come within the definition of 'workman' as per the Industrial Disputes Act 1947. It provides remedy in case of unmerited termination of service. You can invoke the machinery provided under the Act, on receipt of the termination notice. Since you have accepted the charges and apologised for the same, the scope of your challenge could center on the excessive punishment as pointed out by Shri KamalKant. As the offending e-mail was send for keeping record and not to any outside party, the offence is a minor one and cannot result in termination of service.
As suggested you could try to talk it out with your ex-HR, compliance officer or any one else and make it very clear that if they issue termination order or harm your career further, you will not take it lying low but would use legal recourse.
23rd December 2013 From India, Bhopal
One thing surprises me. When a High profile has cooly been absorbed by another company; middle management staffs face these kind of threats. It is for the company to understand your case and accept you and not bother about the old company.
Yes you should be careful and for all sake do not use your personal internet in office.
23rd December 2013 From Saudi Arabia
Any project work you do as part of your employment, becomes property of the company . (Offer letter would have this clause). So technically, it is not your property.

Since the HR and compliance officers have clarified that this case is closed, you got to believe them.

What you learnt from your colleague, could just be a case of mis-communication.

Having worked for 9 years, I am sure, you would have taken a proper relieving from your ex-employer. After issuing relieving letter, company cannot issue termination letter. This itself is an evidence that your case is closed and there is no reason to worry. (Unless there are few other mistakes of yours, which was found out now).

Had there been findings of any other wrong doings, the company still cannot issue termination letter, but can file suit against you on both civil and criminal count. They can file suit only after sending legal notice, seeking explanation.

If the mistake which you have referred here is the only one which you did, don't worry, you are safe.
23rd December 2013 From India, Madras
Dear Kamal,
I quit my previous organisation after 2.5 yrs as i got a good opportunity and this was communicated to my immediate supervisor where he agreed but asked me 30 days of notice period, I informed him that i can give only 15 days notice as need to resume the new organisation.
He told me that 15 days is not required you resign from immediate effect and complete your resignation formalities my meeting the HR. After meeting the HR she confirmed that I will not be marked as Absconded as I have already completed the formalities of sending my resignation through mail and exit form filling.
Next day i got a call from the same HR stating that Its a CEO decision to mark me as Absconding and sorry for the wrong commitment.
This friday i came to know that there was a Account Manager who is alsi a good friend of mine was relived by giving 15 days notice period .
Request you to kindly suggest the next steps.
Regards,
Amin Shaikh
23rd December 2013 From India, Taramani
Dear Amin,
My suggestion to you would be that you talk to the management directly. Tell them what happened and also tell the CEO that HR gave you this option otherwise you would have given the 15 days notice atleast. Also send this information through post to your management either speed post or registered post. This is definitely wrong and this should come to the knowledge of the CEO. If they still treat you absconding you will have the proof as to you are not absconding but in touch with the Management and the issue is different. In that letter you can say that so and so account manager is relieved in 15 days..
Feel free to revert in case of further doubt...
23rd December 2013 From India, New Delhi
Thanks Mr Kamal for this valuable information but this was the decision of the CEO. Each and every decision is depend on him whether is it admin work or HR he is the one who decides what is correct and what is wrong. Because when I got a call from HR she said that sorry for giving the wrong commitment as per CEO decision you have been marked as ABSCONDED.So can't understand what to do now as I did what was assured by my immediate supervisor & HR manager.
I talked to my HR when they have sent me recovery amount notice but when i asked them that can I get my reliving letter after paying the dues they said no.
Is there any clause where Co. can deny reliving letter to their employee if they are ready to clear the notice period recovery dues.
Please suggest....
23rd December 2013 From India, Taramani
Dear Friend
Adding point to your, views and following thread .
As all veterans briefed what happened was mistake and by fire wall tech it didnot go .
Donot rely on Oral Info until its true by all means .
Neither you can rely on your compliance officer\'s info .
They would have asked not to tell info as it would have been a vital PPT.
Did you get a resignation acceptance letter .
If you had not done that or did it its late now .
Please do soft follow up for the relieving letter or release letter or experience cerificate with the reason mentioned in it .
The reason you can mention is PF pension purpose. In some cases if the organisation is managing the PF accumulations thro\' Pf trust , to withdraw the pension portion they need a copy of it .
This also changes co to co .
Please take a one more opinion also from HR veterans .
Regs
Balaji
24th December 2013 From India, Bangalore
As you admit to making a mistake and as it was prevented on time due to the company's firewall, it reflects badly on your professionalism and work ethics. Having received so many accolades you should have at least not tried to "steal" the presentation of what you have done and use it elsewhere someday in the future which is what your intent stands out to be. Frankly speaking, never carry your professional baggage (IP) from one company to another with the hope that it may be useful. It does not help. It's never quite that useful unless you are joining a competitor company.

Having said that, initiate a dialogue with the Compliance guys and see to it that the matter is sorted out at the highest level. Volunteer to escalate the matter through dialogue and keep your intent straight... that you wanted to preserve a copy of your supposedly 'own' work. I may be wrong here in my assumption. You know it better. But at the end of the day, your work is your company's IP. You were paid to do it.

As a kid we have learnt that stealing is bad but as we grow older the distinction gets blurred categorically which is why we have netas all around us.

Like Adv. Pant mentioned the quantum of punishment meted out is important. In this case TALK , TALK , TALK and dissuade the compliance fellow to do what he is allegedly planning to do. If required, as a good Indian citizen who is very law abiding, you can try and 'buy' him out through some innocent bribery... maybe a meeting at CCD, or Barista, or someplace where you guys can chat like good ol' friends. Of course the level of 'bribery' is up to you.

If nothing works, try suing him for 'character assassination' , workplace harassment (man against man), intimidation, etc. and put his career at stake. You will need a smart lawyer for that buddy. Also before you jump the gun make sure your little birdie who gave you such 'reliable' information is equally trustworthy. Or else, give him some of your 'accolades' !!

Live life simple. All the ppts and projects we make throughout our life will remain in our unused email when we die. What do we do with it after that? Let it be where it belongs. Move on in life. I am talking from experience and realization.

Happy New Year to you.

Saurav Das
26th December 2013 From India, Mumbai
Hello Anonymous,
The first thing you should do is to discuss this matter with your ex- HR and your ex- reporting manager, confirm the matter before going for any legal action. I completely agree with all the above mentioned replies, you have done very big mistake. Any confidential information has not be shared.
If they wants to take any action against you, for that a proper inquiry needs to be done.I can only suggest you to request them to relieve you instead terminate you considering all the facts and your performance during the tenure.
28th December 2013 From India, Mumbai
Hi
I can not believe this advice given by Mr. Das, esp on bribing and character assassination, just to obfuscate the issue of a probable IP theft by you (worst case scenario) or violation of contractual NDA (best case scenario).
If you plan to follow that advice - esp. the "bribery" and "character assassination" part, i suggest you also get a good criminal lawyer and an anticipatory bail and then try whatever he suggested. All it will take to nail you, is a report back to the company by who ever you try to bribe.
By attempting a bribe or a character assassination, you would have enormously strengthened the case against you.
Good Luck.
================================================== ==

28th December 2013 From India, Mumbai
Once relieving letter is issued, company cannot issue termination letter (even if some past mistake is found later)
In case after issuing relieving letter, company finds out any past mistake, they can issue notice seeking explanation. If they are not satisfied, they can file civil as well as criminal suit (Relieving letter is still valid)
Bribing and harassment complaint should never be resorted to. This would just push you further down and make your case very weak. It would add more misery. Bribing is a criminal offence and company can initiate action. The said individual on whom harassment complaint is made can initiate file criminal case and also file civil suit for compensation in lieu of damages
28th December 2013 From India, Madras
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