I have two questions about my current employment where I'm serving my notice period. Due to a demotivating appraisal in October, I told myself that I must quit where there is no esteem. I sent out my resignation in January 2013. My US Manager tried convincing me, wasting his time, as I kept telling him that I'm not at all interested in continuing with the organization. I requested him to relieve me immediately, but he told me that I have to work for 2 months (notice period). I told him that he was forcing me to work/come to the office for two months. Then he threatened me that I will have to show him results, or he knows what to do (e.g., not giving me a relieving letter, salary, or giving a relieving letter that states I was terminated). I have upfront told him that there is no point in forcing me to sit in the office, for which he told me, "I know your caliber, and if you tell me that you are not able to deliver, I know what to do."
Now, for the last 15 days, I'm coming to the office every day with no other option, but not working and just surfing the net (Wikipedia, news, and stuff). I will serve the notice period for 2 months. As I'm not interested in working for this organization anymore, I'm not working but present in the office. My Indian manager has told me that they won't pay this month's salary as there is no delivery from my end. He told me that they will relieve me soon and help me out, but apparently, he is playing around.
1. Now my question is, is there any chance that the company will not pay my salary? If they do so, what must I do?
2. While I'm serving the notice period, can the company terminate me, meaning can they issue a relieving letter stating that I'm terminated? Or is it that they have to relieve only and not terminate?
How can I work this out? I'm financially tight (2 lakh debt), and in this situation, I cannot afford to buy out. I know what I'm doing is not right at all, but I have no other option because if I keep working, they will make sure not to relieve me until the last minute.
Thank you
From India, Bangalore
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1Now, for the last 15 days, I'm coming to the office every day with no other option, but not working and just surfing the net (Wikipedia, news, and stuff). I will serve the notice period for 2 months. As I'm not interested in working for this organization anymore, I'm not working but present in the office. My Indian manager has told me that they won't pay this month's salary as there is no delivery from my end. He told me that they will relieve me soon and help me out, but apparently, he is playing around.
1. Now my question is, is there any chance that the company will not pay my salary? If they do so, what must I do?
2. While I'm serving the notice period, can the company terminate me, meaning can they issue a relieving letter stating that I'm terminated? Or is it that they have to relieve only and not terminate?
How can I work this out? I'm financially tight (2 lakh debt), and in this situation, I cannot afford to buy out. I know what I'm doing is not right at all, but I have no other option because if I keep working, they will make sure not to relieve me until the last minute.
Thank you
From India, Bangalore
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After submitting your resignation, you requested your reporting officer to relieve you immediately, and it was on his request that you are serving the notice period. This means that even if you are asked to leave immediately, you are not losing anything since it was your wish to be relieved immediately. At the same time, you mentioned that you cannot afford to lose your salary if the management decides to relieve you with immediate effect. You have to choose one of these options.
Non-Payment of Salary During Notice Period
Regarding the non-payment of salary for the days you have attended the office after submitting your resignation, the salary part of your contract of employment may have two components: a fixed salary part and a variable salary part. Of these, the fixed salary part is based on attendance, which cannot be withheld due to non-delivery, though the employer can hold the other part, which is purely based on your performance. Therefore, the fixed salary will have to be paid based on your attendance until the date of exit.
Now, it is the company's turn to decide whether to keep you for two months or to relieve you immediately. Since you have already requested to be relieved immediately, you cannot ask for the remaining day's salary. If, on the other hand, while submitting the resignation itself, you had informed them that you would remain for two months (notice period) and then the company decides to relieve you immediately, then the company's act of relieving you without allowing you to work for two months could be taken as if they are terminating your service. In such a scenario, they would have been liable to pay you the salary for the remaining days. But in this situation, since you had asked for early relieving, they can relieve you earlier without paying wages for the remaining days but restricting the salary up to the days you have attended the office. In either case, the fixed part of the salary is payable to you without fail.
Regards,
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Non-Payment of Salary During Notice Period
Regarding the non-payment of salary for the days you have attended the office after submitting your resignation, the salary part of your contract of employment may have two components: a fixed salary part and a variable salary part. Of these, the fixed salary part is based on attendance, which cannot be withheld due to non-delivery, though the employer can hold the other part, which is purely based on your performance. Therefore, the fixed salary will have to be paid based on your attendance until the date of exit.
Now, it is the company's turn to decide whether to keep you for two months or to relieve you immediately. Since you have already requested to be relieved immediately, you cannot ask for the remaining day's salary. If, on the other hand, while submitting the resignation itself, you had informed them that you would remain for two months (notice period) and then the company decides to relieve you immediately, then the company's act of relieving you without allowing you to work for two months could be taken as if they are terminating your service. In such a scenario, they would have been liable to pay you the salary for the remaining days. But in this situation, since you had asked for early relieving, they can relieve you earlier without paying wages for the remaining days but restricting the salary up to the days you have attended the office. In either case, the fixed part of the salary is payable to you without fail.
Regards,
Madhu.T.K
From India, Kannur
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Further to what Madhu mentioned/suggested, there are different ways/angles to view your situation.
First of all, please confirm if you had any other job in hand when you resigned. Next, I think you misjudged the whole situation—you resigned just because you received a bad review/appraisal. There seems to be a possibility that you did fare badly [based on the company's set of parameters]—your US Manager's words "I know your caliber..." seem to suggest that it's you who seems to be missing out on the larger picture. No employer tries to convince [like you said, 'wasting his time'] unless he/she is convinced himself/herself that the resource is worth being given that kind of time.
Coming to your line 'I know what I'm doing is not at all right, but I have no other option...'. In any and every situation, there will always be multiple options—whether one wants to take the other options or not is up to the individual. Just because he/she doesn't want to even look at the other options doesn't make them vanish. In your case, it's your choice to consider or not the other options.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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First of all, please confirm if you had any other job in hand when you resigned. Next, I think you misjudged the whole situation—you resigned just because you received a bad review/appraisal. There seems to be a possibility that you did fare badly [based on the company's set of parameters]—your US Manager's words "I know your caliber..." seem to suggest that it's you who seems to be missing out on the larger picture. No employer tries to convince [like you said, 'wasting his time'] unless he/she is convinced himself/herself that the resource is worth being given that kind of time.
Coming to your line 'I know what I'm doing is not at all right, but I have no other option...'. In any and every situation, there will always be multiple options—whether one wants to take the other options or not is up to the individual. Just because he/she doesn't want to even look at the other options doesn't make them vanish. In your case, it's your choice to consider or not the other options.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Out here, it seems there's some attitude issue. Just because you were not able to achieve your desired appraisal figure, you cannot blame the company. There are several factors involved, one of which is your performance.
I also fail to understand how a lower appraisal is connected to serving notice! This seems like you are out to take revenge on the company—purely unprofessional. If you are not happy with the appraisal, the best option could have been to opt for another opportunity and leave this organization on agreed terms at the time of appointment. This will also preserve your dignity. Who knows, you might fall back on this company for BV.
You need to check your tenure with the company, the kind of role you are in, and the contribution you've made. Talk to your manager about what has affected your appraisals the most. This could have been the right attitude towards your work, whether here or anywhere else.
Rest assured, Madhu.T.K has given you the solution to your query.
Regards
From India, Ahmedabad
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I also fail to understand how a lower appraisal is connected to serving notice! This seems like you are out to take revenge on the company—purely unprofessional. If you are not happy with the appraisal, the best option could have been to opt for another opportunity and leave this organization on agreed terms at the time of appointment. This will also preserve your dignity. Who knows, you might fall back on this company for BV.
You need to check your tenure with the company, the kind of role you are in, and the contribution you've made. Talk to your manager about what has affected your appraisals the most. This could have been the right attitude towards your work, whether here or anywhere else.
Rest assured, Madhu.T.K has given you the solution to your query.
Regards
From India, Ahmedabad
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@ Madhu T.K – Highly appreciate your response. You perfectly understood what my question was, and the answer was right on the spot.
@ Tajsateesh - Yes, I had another job in hand prior to resignation. Perhaps, I'm not looking at the big picture. He meant it like growing in the same organization and more, but I really would not want to grow in an organization that is not "employee-friendly." It really annoys me when they call you in every Saturday to work. Trust me, I'm not the only one here annoyed with the way things work. A guy with less experience, a wrong attitude towards colleagues, and the same delivery gets a 45% hike just because the CEO knows his name. On the other hand, you, who bring a smile to your colleagues' faces and offer a helping hand to anyone and everyone with the same delivery, get a 5-8% hike?? Now, the manager, who is your friend, comes to you and tells you that he got the 45% hike because the Boss knows him well. With this kind of structure, I really don't think I should continue here. People (my seniors) who have overachieved and have been with the organization got a 10% max. I have been trying to look at the big picture in every way, but I don't see any. There are three resignations following mine; two people just left the organization without any intimation (this is why they are relieving me). I'm not following them but just telling you as an example. In short, the Indian manager wants to control this office, the US manager doesn't want to let go of the control he had for the last 8 years, and in between, we get grilled. I'm not a guy who runs behind money. I'm joining an organization that is paying me just Rs1000 more than what I'm currently making.
Completely agree with this: "IN ANY & EVERY SITUATION, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MULTIPLE OPTIONS--WHETHER ONE WANTS TO TAKE THE OTHER OPTIONS OR NOT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL." I will sincerely take this into consideration, not just regarding this employment but in every aspect of my life.
@ Hiral Mehta –
Attitude issue? No, I don't think there's a problem with any of our attitudes, I mean mine or the managers'. We all want to see things work the way we want.
I am aware there are numerous factors involved in appraisal. If you are not happy, you just move on. Just to let you know, my manager or the US manager has never pointed out performance (revenue generation) issues because they totally get what I'm capable of, and they wish that I could continue. Let's just say the company is ready to give me a 50% hike; I still won't stay back.
"I also fail to understand how a lower appraisal is connected to serving notice!!" Please tell me which sentence that I wrote failed your understanding; I would like to correct it for you.
Revenge on the company?? You must be kidding me. I fail to understand what made you proclaim this. If there was any chance that I could take revenge on anything in my life, I'd rather let it be. No employee can take revenge on any company. You get paid to do the work; if you think you are underpaid/cheated, you just have to move on. Oh, come on, we are all grown-ups; I don't need to say this.
I agree with your third paragraph totally! Been there, done that.
No offense, how did you read my query? Thinking that I'm an employee of your organization? Did you want to counsel me or something? You totally went out of context analyzing and criticizing the whole of my query. Look at the stuff you have put in bold: "attitude issue," "dignity," "your performance." I'm totally perplexed that my query to you looked like a question to a therapist. I'm going to ask a PF-related question very soon, please help me out there.
Regards.
From India, Bangalore
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@ Tajsateesh - Yes, I had another job in hand prior to resignation. Perhaps, I'm not looking at the big picture. He meant it like growing in the same organization and more, but I really would not want to grow in an organization that is not "employee-friendly." It really annoys me when they call you in every Saturday to work. Trust me, I'm not the only one here annoyed with the way things work. A guy with less experience, a wrong attitude towards colleagues, and the same delivery gets a 45% hike just because the CEO knows his name. On the other hand, you, who bring a smile to your colleagues' faces and offer a helping hand to anyone and everyone with the same delivery, get a 5-8% hike?? Now, the manager, who is your friend, comes to you and tells you that he got the 45% hike because the Boss knows him well. With this kind of structure, I really don't think I should continue here. People (my seniors) who have overachieved and have been with the organization got a 10% max. I have been trying to look at the big picture in every way, but I don't see any. There are three resignations following mine; two people just left the organization without any intimation (this is why they are relieving me). I'm not following them but just telling you as an example. In short, the Indian manager wants to control this office, the US manager doesn't want to let go of the control he had for the last 8 years, and in between, we get grilled. I'm not a guy who runs behind money. I'm joining an organization that is paying me just Rs1000 more than what I'm currently making.
Completely agree with this: "IN ANY & EVERY SITUATION, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MULTIPLE OPTIONS--WHETHER ONE WANTS TO TAKE THE OTHER OPTIONS OR NOT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL." I will sincerely take this into consideration, not just regarding this employment but in every aspect of my life.
@ Hiral Mehta –
Attitude issue? No, I don't think there's a problem with any of our attitudes, I mean mine or the managers'. We all want to see things work the way we want.
I am aware there are numerous factors involved in appraisal. If you are not happy, you just move on. Just to let you know, my manager or the US manager has never pointed out performance (revenue generation) issues because they totally get what I'm capable of, and they wish that I could continue. Let's just say the company is ready to give me a 50% hike; I still won't stay back.
"I also fail to understand how a lower appraisal is connected to serving notice!!" Please tell me which sentence that I wrote failed your understanding; I would like to correct it for you.
Revenge on the company?? You must be kidding me. I fail to understand what made you proclaim this. If there was any chance that I could take revenge on anything in my life, I'd rather let it be. No employee can take revenge on any company. You get paid to do the work; if you think you are underpaid/cheated, you just have to move on. Oh, come on, we are all grown-ups; I don't need to say this.
I agree with your third paragraph totally! Been there, done that.
No offense, how did you read my query? Thinking that I'm an employee of your organization? Did you want to counsel me or something? You totally went out of context analyzing and criticizing the whole of my query. Look at the stuff you have put in bold: "attitude issue," "dignity," "your performance." I'm totally perplexed that my query to you looked like a question to a therapist. I'm going to ask a PF-related question very soon, please help me out there.
Regards.
From India, Bangalore
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The Importance of Maintaining Professional Relationships When Leaving a Job
It is never a good practice to burn bridges when you leave an organization. Legally, the company can do nothing if your productivity is nil during the notice period, other than not paying you if payment is officially linked to measurable productivity. However, it leaves a bad taste on both sides. The company can make your life difficult by badmouthing you to potential employers, giving you a poorly worded relieving letter, socially isolating you during the notice period, and thereby psychologically affecting your self-esteem and self-worth.
I would also say that it makes no sense for the company to force someone to come and mark attendance during the notice period, as it is a demotivator for other employees and spoils the organizational atmosphere. You should have parted ways when you realized that you and the company were not a good fit for each other. It is never good behavior to spoil relationships just because you cease to work for someone. Both parties can badmouth each other, but the price you pay as an employee will be higher, as organizations are generally better equipped to handle such situations. It looks like an ego clash and an attitudinal problem between both parties. I suggest you forget the incident and keep moving forward rather than letting this isolated incident weigh on you and spoil your future.
Regards
From India, Bengaluru
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It is never a good practice to burn bridges when you leave an organization. Legally, the company can do nothing if your productivity is nil during the notice period, other than not paying you if payment is officially linked to measurable productivity. However, it leaves a bad taste on both sides. The company can make your life difficult by badmouthing you to potential employers, giving you a poorly worded relieving letter, socially isolating you during the notice period, and thereby psychologically affecting your self-esteem and self-worth.
I would also say that it makes no sense for the company to force someone to come and mark attendance during the notice period, as it is a demotivator for other employees and spoils the organizational atmosphere. You should have parted ways when you realized that you and the company were not a good fit for each other. It is never good behavior to spoil relationships just because you cease to work for someone. Both parties can badmouth each other, but the price you pay as an employee will be higher, as organizations are generally better equipped to handle such situations. It looks like an ego clash and an attitudinal problem between both parties. I suggest you forget the incident and keep moving forward rather than letting this isolated incident weigh on you and spoil your future.
Regards
From India, Bengaluru
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One of my friends went through the same situation in a reputed leading private new generation bank. He joined in a nice position, but all he was made to do was sell life insurance. When his probation period got extended citing low performance, which he definitely knew was not true, he decided to move on. Before that, he was dissatisfied with the ill-mannered top boss, no leaves allowed citing work pressure while older employees were taking all benefits. There was groupism, nepotism, and he was made to work beyond working hours with unachievable sales targets, so he decided to leave. However, he was forced to do sales even during the notice period. What he did was attend the office on time, went out citing sales calls after 1-2 hours, and made his mobile unreachable. The top boss said he would terminate him, but he kept silent. At the end of the notice period, he submitted his ID card, etc., and wrote a scathing note to HR in the exit form online. After 15 days, he received his full 1.5 months' salary due along with a relieving letter.
So what I want to tell you is that the company has to pay the full salary unless the performance component is specified. Try not to burn bridges if possible. If you are not satisfied with the appraisal, talk with HR (my friend did talk with HR), and if nothing comes out, consider another company. But why join another company for a Rs 1000 hike? Don't show your desperation to join when giving an interview. You could have gotten at least a 20% hike. Moreover, who knows if the grass is greener on the other side? If you want to serve the notice period, then do your work sincerely because you expect to be paid for it. Unless you have been harassed to leave, one should do one's duty and leave on a good note. A person who is in the notice period can't be terminated, so don't worry about that unless you are absconding.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
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So what I want to tell you is that the company has to pay the full salary unless the performance component is specified. Try not to burn bridges if possible. If you are not satisfied with the appraisal, talk with HR (my friend did talk with HR), and if nothing comes out, consider another company. But why join another company for a Rs 1000 hike? Don't show your desperation to join when giving an interview. You could have gotten at least a 20% hike. Moreover, who knows if the grass is greener on the other side? If you want to serve the notice period, then do your work sincerely because you expect to be paid for it. Unless you have been harassed to leave, one should do one's duty and leave on a good note. A person who is in the notice period can't be terminated, so don't worry about that unless you are absconding.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
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You are reading the situation all wrong, and you are going to get into trouble.
1. Yes, the company can and will hold back your 2 months' salary. If you are coming to work and not working, surfing the net, etc., they can very easily refuse your salary on the grounds that you did no work and did not obey instructions from your managers to work. You will be able to do nothing about that.
2. They can terminate you. You have resigned, true. But if they decide to issue you a termination letter instead of your relieving letter, what can you do? At best, you can show people your resignation letter. That's all. If there is a signature with a date, some will believe you. If the company gives a termination letter with a backdate, then you will have more difficulty in explaining the situation.
Think again, they can terminate you on the last day and refuse to give you 2 months' salary on the grounds that you have not done work. I am sure they have enough evidence that they asked you to work. They probably have your logs showing you were surfing non-work sites.
In case the new company does a background check, you are in bigger trouble because you will get very negative feedback.
Oh yes, your PF is going to get stuck too. They will make you run around for it; it's very easy.
Instead of doing work in your new company, you will be spending time on that also.
You really have an attitude problem. You think the performance is good. But obviously, your bosses think differently.
All you had to do was complete your notice period properly. You only had to work normally during the notice period as you worked earlier. Instead, you sit in the office and think the company will/should pay you. You have created for yourself a situation where none existed.
From India, Mumbai
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1. Yes, the company can and will hold back your 2 months' salary. If you are coming to work and not working, surfing the net, etc., they can very easily refuse your salary on the grounds that you did no work and did not obey instructions from your managers to work. You will be able to do nothing about that.
2. They can terminate you. You have resigned, true. But if they decide to issue you a termination letter instead of your relieving letter, what can you do? At best, you can show people your resignation letter. That's all. If there is a signature with a date, some will believe you. If the company gives a termination letter with a backdate, then you will have more difficulty in explaining the situation.
Think again, they can terminate you on the last day and refuse to give you 2 months' salary on the grounds that you have not done work. I am sure they have enough evidence that they asked you to work. They probably have your logs showing you were surfing non-work sites.
In case the new company does a background check, you are in bigger trouble because you will get very negative feedback.
Oh yes, your PF is going to get stuck too. They will make you run around for it; it's very easy.
Instead of doing work in your new company, you will be spending time on that also.
You really have an attitude problem. You think the performance is good. But obviously, your bosses think differently.
All you had to do was complete your notice period properly. You only had to work normally during the notice period as you worked earlier. Instead, you sit in the office and think the company will/should pay you. You have created for yourself a situation where none existed.
From India, Mumbai
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Once an employee has resigned, the company can't terminate you except on disciplinary grounds. Yes, they may illegally withhold your salary, but you can fight that too. Moreover, you should be aware that PF is not the property of the company. It is the earnings of the employee. If the company refuses to process your PF, you can approach PF with a complaint, which they will inquire about, and if found true, will take action against the company and process your PF. Even if there is a notice period due amount, it can't be deducted from PF. If the company can make an employee run, then the employee can do the same to HR too. I am not saying don't do your work, but HR is not there to deny one's dues but to settle matters amicably.
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Let's look at the practical side of the matter:
1. If I issue you a termination letter instead of a relieving letter, what will you do? Will you file a case against me in the labor court? Go ahead! The employee has no proof that he has resigned and not been terminated. Even smarter would be if the termination letter is dated a day before his resignation.
2. If you are sitting in the office not doing any work and refusing to work, and I have proof of it, I don't have to pay you. Furthermore, if I have evidence (logs) that you are doing personal work and surfing the internet, I have full grounds to initiate disciplinary action and withhold your salary. You can complain wherever you want, but there is little chance of me being ordered to pay you.
3. For PF, I will refuse to sign the form. What will you do? Will you file a complaint with the PF Commissioner? He will likely ignore it. Then you will have to go personally 4 to 5 times, and perhaps he will send a notice. I will give a reply (he never approached me for signing, he absconded, etc.), you will go another 4 to 5 times, and then perhaps after another notice, I will sign it. Or you can get it signed from a banker, etc. Additionally, 6 to 10 trips may be required. (The point I made clear in my post: you will spend time running after this instead of concentrating on your new job).
HR is not there to help any employee trying to defraud the company. They are there to assist the company. When someone thinks they can sit and do nothing, HR can rightfully withhold all things due otherwise. HR will act as per the management's instructions (within legal boundaries or even stretching them) as it knows where its interests lie.
You missed the main point in my post. There are ways to handle things without creating unnecessary conflicts. If you raise a conflict assuming you will win and the company will comply easily, you are mistaken. If someone were to resign (as I would in his place), I would simply resign, inform them of my new job, give feedback during the exit interview if available, and leave. If the company insists on a notice period, I would serve it, continue working normally as before. There's no need to be stubborn and refuse work just because early relief hasn't been granted.
From the concerned manager's attitude, it's evident: the company is not inclined to meet the OP's demands. They are displeased with his lack of work during the notice period and intend to withhold things. Even if he eventually receives his payment, it will involve significant effort (and delay), diverting his focus from his new job to old matters. Few new employers would tolerate such behavior, leading to potential issues there too.
And consider the implications when (if) the new employer conducts a background check. Need I say more?
Correct Spelling and Grammar:
- "complain" should be "complaint"
- "withholding" instead of "with holding"
- "co" should be "company"
- "cant" should be "can't"
- "Once an employee has resigned, the company can't terminate you except on disciplinary grounds."
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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1. If I issue you a termination letter instead of a relieving letter, what will you do? Will you file a case against me in the labor court? Go ahead! The employee has no proof that he has resigned and not been terminated. Even smarter would be if the termination letter is dated a day before his resignation.
2. If you are sitting in the office not doing any work and refusing to work, and I have proof of it, I don't have to pay you. Furthermore, if I have evidence (logs) that you are doing personal work and surfing the internet, I have full grounds to initiate disciplinary action and withhold your salary. You can complain wherever you want, but there is little chance of me being ordered to pay you.
3. For PF, I will refuse to sign the form. What will you do? Will you file a complaint with the PF Commissioner? He will likely ignore it. Then you will have to go personally 4 to 5 times, and perhaps he will send a notice. I will give a reply (he never approached me for signing, he absconded, etc.), you will go another 4 to 5 times, and then perhaps after another notice, I will sign it. Or you can get it signed from a banker, etc. Additionally, 6 to 10 trips may be required. (The point I made clear in my post: you will spend time running after this instead of concentrating on your new job).
HR is not there to help any employee trying to defraud the company. They are there to assist the company. When someone thinks they can sit and do nothing, HR can rightfully withhold all things due otherwise. HR will act as per the management's instructions (within legal boundaries or even stretching them) as it knows where its interests lie.
You missed the main point in my post. There are ways to handle things without creating unnecessary conflicts. If you raise a conflict assuming you will win and the company will comply easily, you are mistaken. If someone were to resign (as I would in his place), I would simply resign, inform them of my new job, give feedback during the exit interview if available, and leave. If the company insists on a notice period, I would serve it, continue working normally as before. There's no need to be stubborn and refuse work just because early relief hasn't been granted.
From the concerned manager's attitude, it's evident: the company is not inclined to meet the OP's demands. They are displeased with his lack of work during the notice period and intend to withhold things. Even if he eventually receives his payment, it will involve significant effort (and delay), diverting his focus from his new job to old matters. Few new employers would tolerate such behavior, leading to potential issues there too.
And consider the implications when (if) the new employer conducts a background check. Need I say more?
Correct Spelling and Grammar:
- "complain" should be "complaint"
- "withholding" instead of "with holding"
- "co" should be "company"
- "cant" should be "can't"
- "Once an employee has resigned, the company can't terminate you except on disciplinary grounds."
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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You are clearly forgetting that a resignation letter mentions the date too. So, if you are backdating it after receiving a resignation letter, you are clearly engaging in fraud for which you may be hauled to court. Moreover, new-age banks and IT companies have online resignation systems too. New-age employees will not tolerate HR excesses. If the company believes that the employee wasted time at work for two months, why didn't it issue a show-cause notice immediately instead of utilizing him for two months and then claiming he didn't do any work? Can you explain that to the judge? Why did you wait for two months to initiate disciplinary action?
Regarding PF documents, nowadays, they are sent via registered post with acknowledgment due, where the employee goes personally for signing, providing proof. If you do not sign, he can complain and file an RTI to inquire about the status of his complaint. Then the EPF office will be motivated to issue you a show-cause notice as to why you did not process it upon receipt. There are clauses to discipline errant companies too—remember that? You will have to explain to higher officials why you did not process it. When the going gets tough, remember the company will wash its hands off because nothing is documented in hard copy—instructions that you are following.
Regarding the attitude towards work, I fully agree that an employee should only be paid if he works, even though I personally believe offer letters are usually biased in favor of the company. For example, if an employee does not serve the notice period, he has to pay two months' salary, while if the company waives the notice period, it pays only one month's basic salary. Just remember that prospective candidates discuss the company and industry on social media, so once your company gains a bad reputation, you will struggle to attract talented individuals to work for you. They are not only looking at the salary but also at career growth and feedback before deciding. So, remember that the negativity you spread can come back to you as well. Do not be under the impression that this is a seller's market.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
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Regarding PF documents, nowadays, they are sent via registered post with acknowledgment due, where the employee goes personally for signing, providing proof. If you do not sign, he can complain and file an RTI to inquire about the status of his complaint. Then the EPF office will be motivated to issue you a show-cause notice as to why you did not process it upon receipt. There are clauses to discipline errant companies too—remember that? You will have to explain to higher officials why you did not process it. When the going gets tough, remember the company will wash its hands off because nothing is documented in hard copy—instructions that you are following.
Regarding the attitude towards work, I fully agree that an employee should only be paid if he works, even though I personally believe offer letters are usually biased in favor of the company. For example, if an employee does not serve the notice period, he has to pay two months' salary, while if the company waives the notice period, it pays only one month's basic salary. Just remember that prospective candidates discuss the company and industry on social media, so once your company gains a bad reputation, you will struggle to attract talented individuals to work for you. They are not only looking at the salary but also at career growth and feedback before deciding. So, remember that the negativity you spread can come back to you as well. Do not be under the impression that this is a seller's market.
Regards,
From India, Bangalore
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There is a significant difference between what should happen and what actually happens.
For example, regarding PF, there are at least 20 posts on cite.hr where someone has complained to the PF department and received no reply. Repeated follow-ups yield no action. Go ahead and file an RTI. Have you ever tried it? It sounds nice in newspapers, but reality is quite different.
The court may ask me why I didn't do X or Y. Let them. The matter will likely come up for hearing after five years. Meanwhile, the employee will make repeated trips to the court and spend money on lawyers. My point is just that. He has created a problem where none was required. The company can fight, deter, and spend money on this. Can he?
We could argue about this for hours. (Create a separate post, and I will provide counterarguments running into pages, with examples.) We deviate from what the original poster wants to know. My opinion is that if the company decides not to pay him, there is little he can do in reality. What he can do will yield results only after a lot of toil, sweat, and stress. If he does get his money easily and quickly, good for him. I have my doubts.
From India, Mumbai
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For example, regarding PF, there are at least 20 posts on cite.hr where someone has complained to the PF department and received no reply. Repeated follow-ups yield no action. Go ahead and file an RTI. Have you ever tried it? It sounds nice in newspapers, but reality is quite different.
The court may ask me why I didn't do X or Y. Let them. The matter will likely come up for hearing after five years. Meanwhile, the employee will make repeated trips to the court and spend money on lawyers. My point is just that. He has created a problem where none was required. The company can fight, deter, and spend money on this. Can he?
We could argue about this for hours. (Create a separate post, and I will provide counterarguments running into pages, with examples.) We deviate from what the original poster wants to know. My opinion is that if the company decides not to pay him, there is little he can do in reality. What he can do will yield results only after a lot of toil, sweat, and stress. If he does get his money easily and quickly, good for him. I have my doubts.
From India, Mumbai
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Reality Check on Legal Actions Against Employers
As I said, we can debate this for a long time. Reality is different from what should ideally be. You need a reality check. Why don't you do an RTI to find out how many complaints are pending with the PF department in Mumbai alone?
We have acted on both sides. It's a question of how much holding power you have and how you present your case to the court. Check out some of the cases that are there in various threads on cite.hr. Cases are decided after appeal 20 years down the line. If your dad wants to fight a case free of cost for 20 years for someone, that's another story. In the end, he may still not get paid if the court decides against him. But do you think an ordinary employee can stand the test? Not a chance of a cold day in hell.
My point, again, is the same. It's unwise to create a problem where none was needed. Why? Because an ordinary employee from a poor or middle-class family can't sustain the efforts or the cost of fighting a company. The legal route is to be used in extreme cases where the impact is huge, or the level of injustice is too high. (That, again, is a reality in the Indian judicial system - ask your dad). Not in a case you created or one where you could have gracefully exited. You can't teach the company a lesson. The sooner you understand that, the better.
Assume for the moment that you can use the legal route to get 2 months' salary, with interest, and your PF form signed. What's next? Can you also take the legal route to get yourself a good report in case of a background check? Can you take the legal route to force your new employer to give you leave of absence regularly to attend court hearings? Will a prospective employer give you a job if they know or hear that you are involved in a labor law case against your previous employer?
Let's not continue this debate on this thread. It's not of interest to others reading it.
Incidentally, my company is not going to kick me out of the job for someone filing a case against it. But that, again, is not a matter of concern for this thread.
From India, Mumbai
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As I said, we can debate this for a long time. Reality is different from what should ideally be. You need a reality check. Why don't you do an RTI to find out how many complaints are pending with the PF department in Mumbai alone?
We have acted on both sides. It's a question of how much holding power you have and how you present your case to the court. Check out some of the cases that are there in various threads on cite.hr. Cases are decided after appeal 20 years down the line. If your dad wants to fight a case free of cost for 20 years for someone, that's another story. In the end, he may still not get paid if the court decides against him. But do you think an ordinary employee can stand the test? Not a chance of a cold day in hell.
My point, again, is the same. It's unwise to create a problem where none was needed. Why? Because an ordinary employee from a poor or middle-class family can't sustain the efforts or the cost of fighting a company. The legal route is to be used in extreme cases where the impact is huge, or the level of injustice is too high. (That, again, is a reality in the Indian judicial system - ask your dad). Not in a case you created or one where you could have gracefully exited. You can't teach the company a lesson. The sooner you understand that, the better.
Assume for the moment that you can use the legal route to get 2 months' salary, with interest, and your PF form signed. What's next? Can you also take the legal route to get yourself a good report in case of a background check? Can you take the legal route to force your new employer to give you leave of absence regularly to attend court hearings? Will a prospective employer give you a job if they know or hear that you are involved in a labor law case against your previous employer?
Let's not continue this debate on this thread. It's not of interest to others reading it.
Incidentally, my company is not going to kick me out of the job for someone filing a case against it. But that, again, is not a matter of concern for this thread.
From India, Mumbai
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"Now, for the last 15 days, I've been coming to the office every day with no other option, but I'm not working and just surfing the net (Wikipedia, news, and stuff). I will serve the notice period for 2 months. As I'm not interested in working for this organization anymore, I'm present in the office but not working.
1. Now, my question is whether there is any chance that the company will not pay my salary? If they do so, what must I do?
This is your first query. Without getting into legality, my question to you is: would you pay a salary to a person if they come, sit, browse, and leave, if you were the owner of the organization?
You stated that you have financial problems and cannot pay the notice period salary. You should take all precautions to ensure that they cannot gather evidence. With advanced technology, they can surely track what you have been doing in the office and can issue a show-cause notice asking why the salary can be stopped. Submission of a resignation letter should not make you sit idle.
2. While I'm serving the notice period, can the company terminate me? Meaning, can they issue a relieving letter stating that I'm terminated? Or is it that they have to relieve only and not terminate?
The employer can initiate action. However, unlike in government service, there is no rule for private organizations regarding the non-release of dues until the inquiry is completed. The employer can terminate if they really want to by conducting an inquiry and completing it within the next 30 days for your wasting the company's time and resources by browsing.
My advice:
If you want to fight it legally, you should resort to legal means. Not working and browsing, and admitting that you are not interested in doing work, will not help you fight legally."
From India, Chennai
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1. Now, my question is whether there is any chance that the company will not pay my salary? If they do so, what must I do?
This is your first query. Without getting into legality, my question to you is: would you pay a salary to a person if they come, sit, browse, and leave, if you were the owner of the organization?
You stated that you have financial problems and cannot pay the notice period salary. You should take all precautions to ensure that they cannot gather evidence. With advanced technology, they can surely track what you have been doing in the office and can issue a show-cause notice asking why the salary can be stopped. Submission of a resignation letter should not make you sit idle.
2. While I'm serving the notice period, can the company terminate me? Meaning, can they issue a relieving letter stating that I'm terminated? Or is it that they have to relieve only and not terminate?
The employer can initiate action. However, unlike in government service, there is no rule for private organizations regarding the non-release of dues until the inquiry is completed. The employer can terminate if they really want to by conducting an inquiry and completing it within the next 30 days for your wasting the company's time and resources by browsing.
My advice:
If you want to fight it legally, you should resort to legal means. Not working and browsing, and admitting that you are not interested in doing work, will not help you fight legally."
From India, Chennai
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