Boss2966
Industrial Relations
Abedeen7
Assistant Manager Human Resources
Krishan Kapoor
General Manager Hr
Tajsateesh
Recruitment/talent Acquisition, Career Counselling
Samvedan
Consultancy_hr & Ir
Saunee
Hr Manager
Anoopsomarajan
Recruitment, Er, Generalist
+8 Others

Thread Started by #Anoopsomarajan

Dear Seniors,
If the HR know through a trustworthy source as an employee going to abscond after getting his salary, Can we hold his salary asking him/her to serve notice period to get the salary ? Knowingly if we release the salary then whats the power of HR here ?
Regards,
Anoop
11th August 2011 From India, Madras
Dear Anoop
Have you received any written proof about the employee's proposed absconding?
If so, please present the same to your top level boss preferably in director level, then you can drag his payment, by telling that there is some problem in software or in leave of last year, which is under scrutiny. On clearance of the same your payment will be released.
Please do inform the substantial fact to your immediate boss without any delay.
11th August 2011 From India, Kumbakonam
Dear Bhaskar,
Thanks for your feedback, However how long can we do this ? The employee says he has some personal problem (Which is not true) and not coming to office. So no possibility for us to train a new hire to replace his position. Since its crucial our management allowed me to take my own call. The employee has joined recently even there is nothing to hold in F&F.
Regards,
Anoop
11th August 2011 From India, Madras
Hello,

Why not simply call him and REMIND him that you have reasons to draw his attention to the terms and conditions of employment especially as regards to Notice Period. Don't get dragged into further discussion. This is a transparent approach yet tactful!

If after this should the employee leave in defiance to terms and conditions of employment and the Notice Period, you have a right (I suppose) in the contract of employment to not pay him the Notice Period, adjust balance PL etc. You in any case withhold/indefinitely delay his clearance formalities and on that count hold F & F on all counts. This is the way the "administration" component of HR job must act. Now it is for him to proceed against the company for recovering his dues.

Further, you can make the relieving letter, if at all you make it in this case appropriately and give a negative feedback to his potential employers, for what it will be worth.

Kindly do NOT be a captive of a mistaken notion that HR cannot/shouldnot act tought or meet fire with fire! HR also has a backbone. If HR plays fair and receives an unfair response then HR taking extreme steps is fully justified. Never forget that you are working for an ECONOMIC organization and NOT in a charitable organization (where you may, albeit wrongly, choose to be lenient at the costs of the funding agencies!)

Be fair, act rationally, don't ever initiate recourse to dishonest means and approaches!

Clear?

Good Luck.

Regards

samvedan

August 11, 2011

-----------------
11th August 2011 From India, Pune
Hello,
Please try to find out the reason for absence and do not conclude by mere facts.
If he really stands on the negative side of it...withhold the pay..as you know money pinches.. one thing is for sure...everything reciprocates...the way he wants to leave the company may not happen just like that..he has to transfer his knowledge and make a smooth exit...Not today he requires the companies feedback ..sooner or later he will approach you for feedback...so its good you call him up and inform him of the consequences...
Have nice time...
Regards,
Uday
11th August 2011 From India, Visakhapatnam
Hello Anoop,
I am not sure Bhaskar's suggestion would work in this case, for the simple reason that all this guy needs to do is to checkout with his friends [he does have them within your company since he seems to have shared about his plans] & realize that you aren't telling him the facts. And in the process, you aren't handling the main issue @ hand.

The best way would be to confront him--straight & F2F [NOT over the phone]--as Samvedan suggested. However, I wouldn't suggest you to focus on the Notice Period rules. Rather focus to confront him about what you heard about his plans. Obviously, he will deny it. Then switchover to his continued absence & the reasons--again he will most likely stick to his 'personal problem' angle. Pin him down saying that you have info that his personal problem isn't true & if he wants the Company to take his word, then he needs to substantiate with concrete evidence. Else, the company is free to take it in the way it deems fit.
And in case, he refuses to come for a F2F, give him an ultimatum that your boss [or whoever is a very senior official] wants to meet him.

I hope you got what I am driving to--you will be creating the ground for disciplinary action--if you decide to move in that direction--and keep the salary aspect totally OUT-OF-FOCUS AND DISCUSSION. You would, thus, also have handled the issue of whether to pay his salary or not, without even broaching the topic--until you are satisfied with his responses.

All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
11th August 2011 From India, Hyderabad
Merely knowing through a "trustworthy" source that an employee would leave the organization after receiving his salary is not reason enough to withold his salary. That would be a very poor decision to make.

Please understand that if the employee has made up his mind to leave the Company, he will do so anyway. There may some compelling set of reasons for his decision to do so. Try to find out these resaons and maybe you will find a solution to address this issue.

The best way to handle this would be to have a face to face chat with him.

In the meanwhile please release his salary without any further delay, if it has not been done so.

Best Wishes,

Vasant Nair

12th August 2011 From India, Mumbai
Dear Anoop,
This is a common practice in present days. You may have a discussion with him and see whether he is unsatisfied or planning to leave. Then analyze the root cause and do the necessary action to retain your workforces which save your costs and time.
Holding salary, serving notice period and delay in F&F are the last weapon in the hand of HR. If you can motivate employees and reduce attrition, this will be greater achievements for you.
I hope this may help you.
12th August 2011 From India, Bhubaneswar
I am agreed with Mr Nair. Always KEEP one thing in MIND that we are HR people & working for organisation but never ignore HUMANITY. Salary is bread & butter.
Only words are not enough for Trust. Do you have any proof & you are just PREDICTING. Your PREDICTION may harm his career & personal life too.
Please handle it with utmost care & sensitivity. For me holding salary is not a correct way.
Thanks
12th August 2011 From India, Kolhapur
Dear Anoop,
I am agree with Mr. Vasant Nair & other members. Please talk to the employee face to face & try to find out the reason for his decision. Make him understand that his approach is wrong & unprofessional ,which can harm his future employment also as many of the companies are doing past employment reference check. If he really wants to leave the organization he should serve notice period as per appt. letter.
Regards
Roopa Mehra
12th August 2011 From India, Gurgaon
Dear All, Thanks for your suggestions and comments. Its very clear that the employee has to serve 15 days notice to leave our organisation during probation. Holding salary is unfair, But the employee made a mistake by breaking the company norms. If we give the salary on the said date then how the employee realises the fault he made. As a HR i should give a strong message to all other employees about the rules, because i dont want others to follow the same. My question if the employee approaches legally will it be a problem for the company ?
Regards,
Anoop
12th August 2011 From India, Madras
Hello Anoop,

You are right in your thinking process--your priority is NOT ONLY to resolve the issue-in-hand, but also to pre-empt any such situations emerging in the future.

Just re-read my earlier posting, where I mentioned that you can avoid the Notice period or the salary issue from becoming the focal points at all. Once they are NOT the focal points for any discussion/action, he can't go legal--since you would be changing the situation to more of a disciplinary situation.

And as far as possible, pl put everything you discuss with him 'on-record'--in writing--after your discussion is thru. that will not only give your the necessary evidence of the issue IF he decides to go legal BUT ALSO put some fear in his mind about thinking twice to go legal.

Also, pl note that, IN GENERAL, not many people go legal as a matter of option/choice. I have seen many people go legal with the best-case scenario in mind--often forgetting that the worst-case scenario also may result in such a course of action. So what he does IS NOT IN YOUR HANDS. What is IN YOUR HANDS IS YOUR RESPONSE--for which you need to be prepared.

All the Best.

Rgds,

TS
12th August 2011 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Anoop
I also concur with many others in the notion that withholding a salary will not be a proper solution as this is just rumors and hearsay. Confront the employee right away and make sure he understand the consequences of his intended action should it turn out to be true.
Advice on proper hr procedures to be followed in this regard and how to go about following them, then you know you are somehow covered and you can consider drastic action should he continue to abscond.
Regards
Goboza
12th August 2011 From South Africa, Pretoria
I can recall once instance happened with me when i was told not to increase salary as the employee is soon planning to leave. but then there was no proof, so we increased the salary. same person is still working with us with full of spirit.
so its not a good idea to withhold the salary for this reason without any proof.
regards,
saunee
12th August 2011 From India, New Delhi
I beleive the only action you can take here is pay the salary, if he goes after being paid, he will not be eligible for a good reference. If you withold money for whatever reason, how fast (espicially in this day with the speed of social networking) do you think the world will know that the company is unreliable & unscrupulous and holds back salary, which will harm you far more than the salary you are holding back. Personally I believe holding a salary back is not acceptable under 99.9% of situations. The worker worked, the employer needs to pay. If people are leaving before serving notice, get to the root of that problem. If this situation has happened before to ex workers, this may well explain the employees relunctance to honour his side of the contract
13th August 2011 From Thailand, Bangkok
Dear All,
I am also agree with Mr. Vasant Nair & other members. Please talk to the employee face to face & try to find out the reason for his decision. Try to convienced him if he is really requred/worth for the organisation. Even with the approval of mgmt, you may try to increase his CTC. One thing I always believe is that, there should always be gressful exit.
Regards,
Suresh Saindane
13th August 2011 From India, Mumbai
it is better to talk with him directly in a pleasant manner in such a way u r guiding him how to complete his relieving formalities
in this discussion if he reveals that he is going to abscond surely u can stop his salary(written or oral but there should be a witness)
if u don't know it clearly it is not good to stop salary
why because is some may willingly or non willingly misleading you
with regards
sudheer

13th August 2011 From India, Hyderabad
Dear Senior,
Myself santosh kumar patra worked in landmark ltd in Hyderabad position of account executive.i had got a better prospect in other organization. i suddenly left the job.So
other organization will asking the reliving letter & service certificate.but HR Department will not agree to issue reliving letter & service certificate. HR-Manager put a mail to me Why did you not serve notice period ? We donít issue service letters to staff who leave without serving notice period.i put a mail to HR-Manager sorry i made a mistake,So i will agree to pay one month salary as per company rule. but HR-Manager also disagree to me issue reliving letter & service certificate. what should i do. requesting you to seniors kindly guideline to me.what is my next process. other organization will asking to me letters URGENT.
Thanks & Regards
Santosh
13th August 2011 From India, Madras
Hello,

Inadequate information does not elicit comprehensive advice.
  1. In your case were you obliged to give "Notice" to present employer of your intentions to leave employment?
  2. Does your contract of employment stipulate that either party, at least you can buy out the "Notice Period"?
  3. When your date of joining the new employer was finalized, did the new employer not ask you about your notice period obligation with previous employer? Was he willing to accept your joining without any "Relieving Letter" being issued by the previous employer?
Advice/suggestion will depend upon answers to these questions. Regardless:
  1. Please note that it is very improper to leave employment without giving the employer any notice period or without even discussing the matter with the employer.
  2. Having done so anyway, please try to convince the new employer as to why you cannot produce "service certificate" or "relieving letter". But if the new employer does not agree to let you join without these documents (as he may suspect that in future you may treat them also in this manner!) then you are in abit of trouble.
  3. This act committed by you, in many cases arises from a habit described as "shoot first and aim later!". If so, please remember such habits do not always work in all situations.
All I can say at this stage in the given situation is, Good Luck.

Regards
samvedan
August 14, 2011
----------------


14th August 2011 From India, Pune
I am with Mr. Nair please call him directly, get the details, take management in confidence. At times the "reliable source" also work on some intuitions, or other reliable source - this may put you in trouble. If some one has to leave the company he / she will leave. HR has to perform its duties. It is not only the salary there are several other factors which HR has to consider.
Regards,
15th August 2011 From India, New Delhi
Dear Anoop,
You cannot off hand take recourse to withholding the pay of the employee. As you say, You have either heresay or a trustworthy information of the person's intention to leave the job, what is required is one to one discussion like an exit interview informally firstly to know his intention and also to advise him to adopt a positive approach as staying back without following the prescribed procedure will do him more harm than good in many ways one being the reference check.
S.K.Johri
16th August 2011 From India, Delhi
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