Dear Seniors,
If the HR knows through a trustworthy source that an employee is planning to abscond after receiving their salary, can we withhold their salary and request them to serve the notice period before receiving their salary? If we knowingly release the salary, what authority does HR have in this situation?
Regards, Anoop
From India, Madras
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2If the HR knows through a trustworthy source that an employee is planning to abscond after receiving their salary, can we withhold their salary and request them to serve the notice period before receiving their salary? If we knowingly release the salary, what authority does HR have in this situation?
Regards, Anoop
From India, Madras
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Dear Anoop,
Have you received any written proof about the employee's proposed absconding? If so, please present the same to your top-level boss, preferably at the director level. Then, you can flag his payment by mentioning that there is some issue with the software or with last year's leave, which is currently under scrutiny. Once the matter is resolved, your payment will be released.
Please promptly inform your immediate boss about the significant fact.
Thank you.
From India, Kumbakonam
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Have you received any written proof about the employee's proposed absconding? If so, please present the same to your top-level boss, preferably at the director level. Then, you can flag his payment by mentioning that there is some issue with the software or with last year's leave, which is currently under scrutiny. Once the matter is resolved, your payment will be released.
Please promptly inform your immediate boss about the significant fact.
Thank you.
From India, Kumbakonam
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Dear Bhaskar,
Thank you for your feedback. However, how long can we continue with this situation? The employee claims to have personal problems (which is not true) and is not coming to the office. This leaves us with no opportunity to train a new hire to fill his position. Due to the critical nature of the situation, our management has allowed me to make the decision. The employee has recently joined, and there is no pending work or settlement to handle in the Full and Final (F&F) process.
Regards,
Anoop
From India, Madras
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Thank you for your feedback. However, how long can we continue with this situation? The employee claims to have personal problems (which is not true) and is not coming to the office. This leaves us with no opportunity to train a new hire to fill his position. Due to the critical nature of the situation, our management has allowed me to make the decision. The employee has recently joined, and there is no pending work or settlement to handle in the Full and Final (F&F) process.
Regards,
Anoop
From India, Madras
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Hello,
Why not simply call him and remind him that you have reasons to draw his attention to the terms and conditions of employment, especially regarding the Notice Period. Don't get dragged into further discussion. This is a transparent yet tactful approach!
If after this, should the employee leave in defiance of the terms and conditions of employment and the Notice Period, you have the right (I suppose) in the contract of employment to not pay him the Notice Period, adjust balance PL, etc. You, in any case, withhold/indefinitely delay his clearance formalities and on that count hold F & F on all counts. This is the way the "administration" component of the HR job must act. Now it is for him to proceed against the company for recovering his dues.
Further, you can make the relieving letter, if at all you make it in this case, appropriately and give negative feedback to his potential employers, for what it will be worth.
Kindly do NOT be a captive of a mistaken notion that HR cannot/should not act tough or meet fire with fire! HR also has a backbone. If HR plays fair and receives an unfair response, then HR taking extreme steps is fully justified. Never forget that you are working for an ECONOMIC organization and NOT in a charitable organization (where you may, albeit wrongly, choose to be lenient at the costs of the funding agencies!)
Be fair, act rationally, don't ever initiate recourse to dishonest means and approaches!
Clear?
Good Luck.
Regards,
Samvedan
August 11, 2011
From India, Pune
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Why not simply call him and remind him that you have reasons to draw his attention to the terms and conditions of employment, especially regarding the Notice Period. Don't get dragged into further discussion. This is a transparent yet tactful approach!
If after this, should the employee leave in defiance of the terms and conditions of employment and the Notice Period, you have the right (I suppose) in the contract of employment to not pay him the Notice Period, adjust balance PL, etc. You, in any case, withhold/indefinitely delay his clearance formalities and on that count hold F & F on all counts. This is the way the "administration" component of the HR job must act. Now it is for him to proceed against the company for recovering his dues.
Further, you can make the relieving letter, if at all you make it in this case, appropriately and give negative feedback to his potential employers, for what it will be worth.
Kindly do NOT be a captive of a mistaken notion that HR cannot/should not act tough or meet fire with fire! HR also has a backbone. If HR plays fair and receives an unfair response, then HR taking extreme steps is fully justified. Never forget that you are working for an ECONOMIC organization and NOT in a charitable organization (where you may, albeit wrongly, choose to be lenient at the costs of the funding agencies!)
Be fair, act rationally, don't ever initiate recourse to dishonest means and approaches!
Clear?
Good Luck.
Regards,
Samvedan
August 11, 2011
From India, Pune
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Hello,
Please try to find out the reason for the absence and do not conclude based on mere facts. If he truly stands on the negative side of it, withhold the pay. As you know, money pinches. One thing is for sure, everything reciprocates. The way he wants to leave the company may not happen just like that. He has to transfer his knowledge and make a smooth exit. Not today, he requires the company's feedback. Sooner or later, he will approach you for feedback. It's good you call him up and inform him of the consequences.
Have a nice time.
Regards,
Uday
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Please try to find out the reason for the absence and do not conclude based on mere facts. If he truly stands on the negative side of it, withhold the pay. As you know, money pinches. One thing is for sure, everything reciprocates. The way he wants to leave the company may not happen just like that. He has to transfer his knowledge and make a smooth exit. Not today, he requires the company's feedback. Sooner or later, he will approach you for feedback. It's good you call him up and inform him of the consequences.
Have a nice time.
Regards,
Uday
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Hello Anoop,
I am not sure Bhaskar's suggestion would work in this case, for the simple reason that all this guy needs to do is to check out with his friends [he does have them within your company since he seems to have shared about his plans] and realize that you aren't telling him the facts. And in the process, you aren't handling the main issue at hand.
The best way would be to confront him--straight and face-to-face [NOT over the phone]--as Samvedan suggested. However, I wouldn't suggest you focus on the Notice Period rules. Rather, focus on confronting him about what you heard about his plans. Obviously, he will deny it. Then switch over to his continued absence and the reasons--again, he will most likely stick to his 'personal problem' angle. Pin him down saying that you have info that his personal problem isn't true and if he wants the Company to take his word, then he needs to substantiate with concrete evidence. Else, the company is free to take it in the way it deems fit. And in case he refuses to come for a face-to-face, give him an ultimatum that your boss [or whoever is a very senior official] wants to meet him.
I hope you got what I am driving at--you will be creating the ground for disciplinary action--if you decide to move in that direction--and keep the salary aspect totally OUT OF FOCUS AND DISCUSSION. You would, thus, also have handled the issue of whether to pay his salary or not, without even broaching the topic--until you are satisfied with his responses.
All the Best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I am not sure Bhaskar's suggestion would work in this case, for the simple reason that all this guy needs to do is to check out with his friends [he does have them within your company since he seems to have shared about his plans] and realize that you aren't telling him the facts. And in the process, you aren't handling the main issue at hand.
The best way would be to confront him--straight and face-to-face [NOT over the phone]--as Samvedan suggested. However, I wouldn't suggest you focus on the Notice Period rules. Rather, focus on confronting him about what you heard about his plans. Obviously, he will deny it. Then switch over to his continued absence and the reasons--again, he will most likely stick to his 'personal problem' angle. Pin him down saying that you have info that his personal problem isn't true and if he wants the Company to take his word, then he needs to substantiate with concrete evidence. Else, the company is free to take it in the way it deems fit. And in case he refuses to come for a face-to-face, give him an ultimatum that your boss [or whoever is a very senior official] wants to meet him.
I hope you got what I am driving at--you will be creating the ground for disciplinary action--if you decide to move in that direction--and keep the salary aspect totally OUT OF FOCUS AND DISCUSSION. You would, thus, also have handled the issue of whether to pay his salary or not, without even broaching the topic--until you are satisfied with his responses.
All the Best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Seniors,
Merely knowing through a "trustworthy" source that an employee would leave the organization after receiving his salary is not reason enough to withhold his salary. That would be a very poor decision to make.
Please understand that if the employee has made up his mind to leave the Company, he will do so anyway. There may be some compelling reasons for his decision to do so. Try to find out these reasons, and maybe you will find a solution to address this issue.
The best way to handle this would be to have a face-to-face chat with him.
In the meantime, please release his salary without any further delay if it has not been done so.
Best Wishes,
Vasant Nair
If the HR knows through a trustworthy source that an employee is going to abscond after receiving his salary, can we hold his salary, asking him/her to serve the notice period to receive the salary? If we release the salary knowingly, what power does HR have in this situation?
Regards,
Anoop
From India, Mumbai
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Merely knowing through a "trustworthy" source that an employee would leave the organization after receiving his salary is not reason enough to withhold his salary. That would be a very poor decision to make.
Please understand that if the employee has made up his mind to leave the Company, he will do so anyway. There may be some compelling reasons for his decision to do so. Try to find out these reasons, and maybe you will find a solution to address this issue.
The best way to handle this would be to have a face-to-face chat with him.
In the meantime, please release his salary without any further delay if it has not been done so.
Best Wishes,
Vasant Nair
If the HR knows through a trustworthy source that an employee is going to abscond after receiving his salary, can we hold his salary, asking him/her to serve the notice period to receive the salary? If we release the salary knowingly, what power does HR have in this situation?
Regards,
Anoop
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Anoop,
This is a common practice in present days. You may have a discussion with him and see whether he is unsatisfied or planning to leave. Then analyze the root cause and take the necessary action to retain your workforce, which saves your costs and time.
Holding salary, serving notice period, and delays in F&F are the last weapons in the hand of HR. If you can motivate employees and reduce attrition, this will be a greater achievement for you.
I hope this may help you.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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This is a common practice in present days. You may have a discussion with him and see whether he is unsatisfied or planning to leave. Then analyze the root cause and take the necessary action to retain your workforce, which saves your costs and time.
Holding salary, serving notice period, and delays in F&F are the last weapons in the hand of HR. If you can motivate employees and reduce attrition, this will be a greater achievement for you.
I hope this may help you.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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I agree with Mr. Nair. Always keep one thing in mind that we are HR people working for an organization but never ignore humanity. Salary is bread and butter. Only words are not enough for trust. Do you have any proof, or are you just predicting? Your prediction may harm his career and personal life too. Please handle it with utmost care and sensitivity. For me, holding salary is not a correct way.
Thanks
From India, Kolhapur
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Thanks
From India, Kolhapur
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Dear Anoop,
I agree with Mr. Vasant Nair and other members. Please talk to the employee face-to-face and try to find out the reason for his decision. Make him understand that his approach is wrong and unprofessional, which can harm his future employment as many companies conduct past employment reference checks. If he really wants to leave the organization, he should serve the notice period as per the appointment letter.
Regards,
Roopa Mehra
From India, Gurgaon
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I agree with Mr. Vasant Nair and other members. Please talk to the employee face-to-face and try to find out the reason for his decision. Make him understand that his approach is wrong and unprofessional, which can harm his future employment as many companies conduct past employment reference checks. If he really wants to leave the organization, he should serve the notice period as per the appointment letter.
Regards,
Roopa Mehra
From India, Gurgaon
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Dear All,
Thank you for your suggestions and comments. It's very clear that the employee has to serve a 15-day notice to leave our organization during probation. Holding salary is unfair, but the employee made a mistake by breaking the company norms. If we give the salary on the said date, how will the employee realize the fault they made? As an HR professional, I should send a strong message to all other employees about the rules because I don't want others to follow the same path. My question is, if the employee approaches legally, will it be a problem for the company?
Regards,
Anoop
From India, Madras
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Thank you for your suggestions and comments. It's very clear that the employee has to serve a 15-day notice to leave our organization during probation. Holding salary is unfair, but the employee made a mistake by breaking the company norms. If we give the salary on the said date, how will the employee realize the fault they made? As an HR professional, I should send a strong message to all other employees about the rules because I don't want others to follow the same path. My question is, if the employee approaches legally, will it be a problem for the company?
Regards,
Anoop
From India, Madras
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Hello Anoop,
You are right in your thinking process - your priority is not only to resolve the issue at hand but also to preempt any such situations emerging in the future.
Just reread my earlier posting where I mentioned that you can avoid the notice period or the salary issue from becoming the focal points at all. Once they are not the focal points for any discussion/action, he can't go legal - since you would be changing the situation to more of a disciplinary situation.
And as far as possible, please put everything you discuss with him 'on record' - in writing - after your discussion is through. That will not only give you the necessary evidence of the issue if he decides to go legal but also put some fear in his mind about thinking twice to go legal.
Also, please note that, in general, not many people go legal as a matter of option/choice. I have seen many people go legal with the best-case scenario in mind - often forgetting that the worst-case scenario also may result in such a course of action. So what he does is not in your hands. What is in your hands is your response - for which you need to be prepared.
All the best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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You are right in your thinking process - your priority is not only to resolve the issue at hand but also to preempt any such situations emerging in the future.
Just reread my earlier posting where I mentioned that you can avoid the notice period or the salary issue from becoming the focal points at all. Once they are not the focal points for any discussion/action, he can't go legal - since you would be changing the situation to more of a disciplinary situation.
And as far as possible, please put everything you discuss with him 'on record' - in writing - after your discussion is through. That will not only give you the necessary evidence of the issue if he decides to go legal but also put some fear in his mind about thinking twice to go legal.
Also, please note that, in general, not many people go legal as a matter of option/choice. I have seen many people go legal with the best-case scenario in mind - often forgetting that the worst-case scenario also may result in such a course of action. So what he does is not in your hands. What is in your hands is your response - for which you need to be prepared.
All the best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Anoop,
I also concur with many others in the notion that withholding a salary will not be a proper solution as this is just rumors and hearsay. Confront the employee right away and make sure he understands the consequences of his intended action should it turn out to be true.
Advice on proper HR procedures to be followed in this regard and how to go about following them. Then you know you are somehow covered, and you can consider drastic action should he continue to abscond.
Regards,
Goboza
From South Africa, Pretoria
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I also concur with many others in the notion that withholding a salary will not be a proper solution as this is just rumors and hearsay. Confront the employee right away and make sure he understands the consequences of his intended action should it turn out to be true.
Advice on proper HR procedures to be followed in this regard and how to go about following them. Then you know you are somehow covered, and you can consider drastic action should he continue to abscond.
Regards,
Goboza
From South Africa, Pretoria
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I can recall one instance that happened with me when I was told not to increase salary as the employee is soon planning to leave. But then there was no proof, so we increased the salary. The same person is still working with us with full of spirit. So, it's not a good idea to withhold the salary for this reason without any proof.
Regards,
Saunee
From India, New Delhi
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Regards,
Saunee
From India, New Delhi
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I believe the only action you can take here is to pay the salary. If he leaves after being paid, he will not be eligible for a good reference. If you withhold money for whatever reason, how quickly (especially in this day with the speed of social networking) do you think the world will know that the company is unreliable and unscrupulous, and holds back salary? This will harm you far more than the salary you are holding back. Personally, I believe holding a salary back is not acceptable in 99.9% of situations. The worker worked, and the employer needs to pay. If people are leaving before serving notice, get to the root of that problem. If this situation has happened before to former workers, this may well explain the employees' reluctance to honor their side of the contract.
From Thailand, Bangkok
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From Thailand, Bangkok
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Dear All,
I also agree with Mr. Vasant Nair and other members. Please talk to the employee face to face and try to find out the reason for his decision. Try to convince him if he is really required or worth it for the organization. Even with the approval of management, you may try to increase his CTC. One thing I always believe is that there should always be a graceful exit.
Regards,
Suresh Saindane
From India, Mumbai
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I also agree with Mr. Vasant Nair and other members. Please talk to the employee face to face and try to find out the reason for his decision. Try to convince him if he is really required or worth it for the organization. Even with the approval of management, you may try to increase his CTC. One thing I always believe is that there should always be a graceful exit.
Regards,
Suresh Saindane
From India, Mumbai
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It is better to talk with him directly in a pleasant manner, guiding him on how to complete his relieving formalities. In this discussion, if he reveals that he is going to abscond, you can stop his salary (written or oral, but there should be a witness). If you don't know it clearly, it is not good to stop the salary. Why? Because some may willingly or unwillingly mislead you.
With regards,
Sudheer
sudheer.kvvsn@gmail.com
From India, Hyderabad
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With regards,
Sudheer
sudheer.kvvsn@gmail.com
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Senior,
Myself santosh kumar patra worked in landmark ltd in Hyderabad position of account executive.i had got a better prospect in other organization. i suddenly left the job.So
other organization will asking the reliving letter & service certificate.but HR Department will not agree to issue reliving letter & service certificate. HR-Manager put a mail to me Why did you not serve notice period ? We don’t issue service letters to staff who leave without serving notice period.i put a mail to HR-Manager sorry i made a mistake,So i will agree to pay one month salary as per company rule. but HR-Manager also disagree to me issue reliving letter & service certificate. what should i do. requesting you to seniors kindly guideline to me.what is my next process. other organization will asking to me letters URGENT.
Thanks & Regards
Santosh
From India, Madras
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Myself santosh kumar patra worked in landmark ltd in Hyderabad position of account executive.i had got a better prospect in other organization. i suddenly left the job.So
other organization will asking the reliving letter & service certificate.but HR Department will not agree to issue reliving letter & service certificate. HR-Manager put a mail to me Why did you not serve notice period ? We don’t issue service letters to staff who leave without serving notice period.i put a mail to HR-Manager sorry i made a mistake,So i will agree to pay one month salary as per company rule. but HR-Manager also disagree to me issue reliving letter & service certificate. what should i do. requesting you to seniors kindly guideline to me.what is my next process. other organization will asking to me letters URGENT.
Thanks & Regards
Santosh
From India, Madras
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Hello,
Inadequate information does not elicit comprehensive advice.
Regards
samvedan
August 14, 2011
----------------
From India, Pune
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Inadequate information does not elicit comprehensive advice.
- In your case were you obliged to give "Notice" to present employer of your intentions to leave employment?
- Does your contract of employment stipulate that either party, at least you can buy out the "Notice Period"?
- When your date of joining the new employer was finalized, did the new employer not ask you about your notice period obligation with previous employer? Was he willing to accept your joining without any "Relieving Letter" being issued by the previous employer?
- Please note that it is very improper to leave employment without giving the employer any notice period or without even discussing the matter with the employer.
- Having done so anyway, please try to convince the new employer as to why you cannot produce "service certificate" or "relieving letter". But if the new employer does not agree to let you join without these documents (as he may suspect that in future you may treat them also in this manner!) then you are in abit of trouble.
- This act committed by you, in many cases arises from a habit described as "shoot first and aim later!". If so, please remember such habits do not always work in all situations.
Regards
samvedan
August 14, 2011
----------------
From India, Pune
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I am with Mr. Nair. Please call him directly, get the details, and take management into confidence. At times, the "reliable source" also works on intuition, or another reliable source - this may put you in trouble. If someone has to leave the company, he/she will leave. HR has to perform its duties. It is not only the salary; there are several other factors which HR has to consider.
Regards,
From India, New Delhi
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Regards,
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Anoop,
You cannot offhand take recourse to withholding the pay of the employee. As you say, you have either hearsay or trustworthy information of the person's intention to leave the job. What is required is a one-on-one discussion, like an exit interview informally firstly, to know his intention and also to advise him to adopt a positive approach. Staying back without following the prescribed procedure will do him more harm than good in many ways, one being the reference check.
S.K. Johri
From India, Delhi
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You cannot offhand take recourse to withholding the pay of the employee. As you say, you have either hearsay or trustworthy information of the person's intention to leave the job. What is required is a one-on-one discussion, like an exit interview informally firstly, to know his intention and also to advise him to adopt a positive approach. Staying back without following the prescribed procedure will do him more harm than good in many ways, one being the reference check.
S.K. Johri
From India, Delhi
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Notice Period Issue.zip
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