Dear seniors,
I work in a small company as HR. An employee joined in our company saying that he has total of 7Years of experience. In his previous company he is working from last 4years (as per resume).
At the time of joining he informed us that his previous company is moving to some other place so he may not be able to submit the documents straight away & he will submit in next 1month.
We said ok and we hired him. On the day of joining we had given an appointment letter, ID card & access card. After 20days we did a reference check and he failed. In reference check we came to know that he is working for his previous company from last 4month only so we asked him not come to company.
Problem: We are not ready to pay him for the 20days he worked with us. So he wants to go with legal procedures.
If he go for legal procedures what would be the circumstances.
Please leave your valuable inputs.
Thanks in advance.
Rgards.
Ramana
From India, Hyderabad
I work in a small company as HR. An employee joined in our company saying that he has total of 7Years of experience. In his previous company he is working from last 4years (as per resume).
At the time of joining he informed us that his previous company is moving to some other place so he may not be able to submit the documents straight away & he will submit in next 1month.
We said ok and we hired him. On the day of joining we had given an appointment letter, ID card & access card. After 20days we did a reference check and he failed. In reference check we came to know that he is working for his previous company from last 4month only so we asked him not come to company.
Problem: We are not ready to pay him for the 20days he worked with us. So he wants to go with legal procedures.
If he go for legal procedures what would be the circumstances.
Please leave your valuable inputs.
Thanks in advance.
Rgards.
Ramana
From India, Hyderabad
Franckly speaking - HR should have gone for Back ground check before you give appointment letter.
For this problem - He can't claim compaint againt your company, because he failed to provide his supporting document for experience and cheated company by saying that he has been working with his last company for 4 years.
So, don't worry about him.
From India, Hyderabad
For this problem - He can't claim compaint againt your company, because he failed to provide his supporting document for experience and cheated company by saying that he has been working with his last company for 4 years.
So, don't worry about him.
From India, Hyderabad
Hello,
Does the employee stand terminated as of now?
Since he has been issued with an Appointment letter etc and he has signed in acknowledgement, the contract of employment is signed. After this event the employer-employee relationship is governed b the contents of the said contact and applicable law and neither the employer nor the employee will be free to act in variance of the stipulations of this contract.
It is one thing that he has resorted to falsehood to get the job but the point is that the company has fallen for it too. If the individual is punished (by loss of employment), he should not be punished again by denial of wages for the relevant period
There is more to employer-employee relationship than just legal rights and obligations. I do not find fault with his termination but what HR philosophy it is that denies consideration for someone's labour? For his dishonesty he has lost the job. Now I consider that it is WRONG for the company to also deny wages for the period. Punishing someone like this (twice) is not justified in HR philosophy.
Please consider the situation objectively and you will agree with me! Be human!
Regards
samvedan
September 1, 2011
---------------------
From India, Pune
315Does the employee stand terminated as of now?
Since he has been issued with an Appointment letter etc and he has signed in acknowledgement, the contract of employment is signed. After this event the employer-employee relationship is governed b the contents of the said contact and applicable law and neither the employer nor the employee will be free to act in variance of the stipulations of this contract.
It is one thing that he has resorted to falsehood to get the job but the point is that the company has fallen for it too. If the individual is punished (by loss of employment), he should not be punished again by denial of wages for the relevant period
There is more to employer-employee relationship than just legal rights and obligations. I do not find fault with his termination but what HR philosophy it is that denies consideration for someone's labour? For his dishonesty he has lost the job. Now I consider that it is WRONG for the company to also deny wages for the period. Punishing someone like this (twice) is not justified in HR philosophy.
Please consider the situation objectively and you will agree with me! Be human!
Regards
samvedan
September 1, 2011
---------------------
From India, Pune
Dear Kranthi, Thanks for your valuable sugessition. We haven’t given any termination letter is that going to be any problem in future. Please clarify. Thanks
From India, Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Mr Ramana I am accpeting Mr Samvedan’s Statement, even though his said statements are lawful.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Hi,
Usually the appointment letters contain a clause indicating that if there is any wrong representation of facts in the candidates resume, or disclosures related to academic, personal, experience claims, then the appoint will become null and void.
The above is such a clear case of an appointment that has become null and void. This is a legal situation of the employment.
Hence even if the person seeks legal remedy he/ she has to prove that he had secured the employment through fair means.
In case of him seeking the legal recourse the only consequence is to pay your legal adviser his fees. it could be worth to send the message to future candidates who want to take you for a ride. If you really mean business, then compare the fee payable to your legal adviser ( lawyer) with that of the 20 days salary. If his 20 days salary is less than (definitely it should be) your legal advisers fees then pay him off but do not give any experience certificate.
Kind regards
Dayanand L Guddin
General Manager
Group Strategic HR & admin
Endurance Group
From Singapore, Singapore
Usually the appointment letters contain a clause indicating that if there is any wrong representation of facts in the candidates resume, or disclosures related to academic, personal, experience claims, then the appoint will become null and void.
The above is such a clear case of an appointment that has become null and void. This is a legal situation of the employment.
Hence even if the person seeks legal remedy he/ she has to prove that he had secured the employment through fair means.
In case of him seeking the legal recourse the only consequence is to pay your legal adviser his fees. it could be worth to send the message to future candidates who want to take you for a ride. If you really mean business, then compare the fee payable to your legal adviser ( lawyer) with that of the 20 days salary. If his 20 days salary is less than (definitely it should be) your legal advisers fees then pay him off but do not give any experience certificate.
Kind regards
Dayanand L Guddin
General Manager
Group Strategic HR & admin
Endurance Group
From Singapore, Singapore
Hello Ramana,
While Samvedan has put things in the right perspective, Dayanand L Guddin has hit it right on bull's eye--his logic should enable you to handle from the HR perspective [being 'humane' as Samvedan said] as well as make the accounts guys & the management get the core issue--WITHOUT your action being dictated by what this guy did.
Coming to the point of issuing the Termination Letter, it's better to keep YOUR records straight. Given this guy's penchant to go legal despite being in the wrong, it pays to be careful from your end. Anyway, I guess you wouldn't be giving him any OK certificate for any future Reference Checks, then why keep the issue open-ended @ your end?
I would also suggest one more action: spread the word around within the company--to ensure the consequences of such an action is truly understood by all the employees.
And lastly, pl ensure YOU [meaning Management] TOO learn the lessons [as kranthi mentioned] & do some corrections in your hiring process ASAP.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
While Samvedan has put things in the right perspective, Dayanand L Guddin has hit it right on bull's eye--his logic should enable you to handle from the HR perspective [being 'humane' as Samvedan said] as well as make the accounts guys & the management get the core issue--WITHOUT your action being dictated by what this guy did.
Coming to the point of issuing the Termination Letter, it's better to keep YOUR records straight. Given this guy's penchant to go legal despite being in the wrong, it pays to be careful from your end. Anyway, I guess you wouldn't be giving him any OK certificate for any future Reference Checks, then why keep the issue open-ended @ your end?
I would also suggest one more action: spread the word around within the company--to ensure the consequences of such an action is truly understood by all the employees.
And lastly, pl ensure YOU [meaning Management] TOO learn the lessons [as kranthi mentioned] & do some corrections in your hiring process ASAP.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Thanks for all kind suggesstions. Let me put this in simple words, if the employee goes for legal procedures do you think that company don’t have anything positive.
From India, Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
Hello Ramana,
Like you put it in simple words, let me also put it across to you in the same way: What the guy does IS NOT in your control--whether he goes legal or whether he paints a horrible picture about the company with the media and so on......with the human mind what it is, the possibilities could be many.
But WHAT IS DEFINITELY IN YOUR CONTROL is to take ALL necessary steps to PRE-EMPT his possible steps [as per your hunch, going legal] AND to prepare all possible grounds & response mechanisms to handle the situation IF HE DOES GO LEGAL, as you fear.
My suggestion is this [basically a repeat of what Samvedan & Dayanand L Guddin mentioned at the very outset]: Just pay the 20 days salary to him AND GET Acknowledgements that he got the F&F settlement--just ask your seniors to draft the document, if you don't already have it. By this, you will be doing your best to PRE-EMPT the legal possibility AND ALSO take the necessary steps to handle the situation IF HE GOES LEGAL.
Also, suggest involve your Company Legal Advisor in the whole matter.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Like you put it in simple words, let me also put it across to you in the same way: What the guy does IS NOT in your control--whether he goes legal or whether he paints a horrible picture about the company with the media and so on......with the human mind what it is, the possibilities could be many.
But WHAT IS DEFINITELY IN YOUR CONTROL is to take ALL necessary steps to PRE-EMPT his possible steps [as per your hunch, going legal] AND to prepare all possible grounds & response mechanisms to handle the situation IF HE DOES GO LEGAL, as you fear.
My suggestion is this [basically a repeat of what Samvedan & Dayanand L Guddin mentioned at the very outset]: Just pay the 20 days salary to him AND GET Acknowledgements that he got the F&F settlement--just ask your seniors to draft the document, if you don't already have it. By this, you will be doing your best to PRE-EMPT the legal possibility AND ALSO take the necessary steps to handle the situation IF HE GOES LEGAL.
Also, suggest involve your Company Legal Advisor in the whole matter.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Mr. Ramana
The required steps to be taken in this regard is clearly given by Mr. TS, Mr. Dayanand and Mr. Samvedan. Please follow the above, which is correct and adoptable. You cannot punish twice for a single offence and whatever offences committed must be trialed in a single go and it should not be made part for increasing the punishment.
If you pay the 20 days salary and 1 day notice pay & 1 day leave pay then all your liability will get cleared. But if you neglect, then the offender will become hero and your company will become villain in front of the media and others.
Please do not forget to make all the records properly before making all the payment to him and relieving him.
From India, Kumbakonam
The required steps to be taken in this regard is clearly given by Mr. TS, Mr. Dayanand and Mr. Samvedan. Please follow the above, which is correct and adoptable. You cannot punish twice for a single offence and whatever offences committed must be trialed in a single go and it should not be made part for increasing the punishment.
If you pay the 20 days salary and 1 day notice pay & 1 day leave pay then all your liability will get cleared. But if you neglect, then the offender will become hero and your company will become villain in front of the media and others.
Please do not forget to make all the records properly before making all the payment to him and relieving him.
From India, Kumbakonam
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