Hi friends,
If an employee "A" is terminated by the company "X", can X circulate the news of termination of A internally or to the outside world?
If X circulates the message, is it legal? If it is not, then what actions can the employee take?
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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If an employee "A" is terminated by the company "X", can X circulate the news of termination of A internally or to the outside world?
If X circulates the message, is it legal? If it is not, then what actions can the employee take?
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear idi.vijai,
Welcome to CiteHR.com, one of the largest networks of HR professionals.
With reference to your query, one would like to know what motivates the employer to do so? What is the reason behind such a vindictive attitude? It reminds one of the days of 'public flogging' - I hope your company does not entertain such a medieval mindset.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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1446Welcome to CiteHR.com, one of the largest networks of HR professionals.
With reference to your query, one would like to know what motivates the employer to do so? What is the reason behind such a vindictive attitude? It reminds one of the days of 'public flogging' - I hope your company does not entertain such a medieval mindset.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Raj,
We are into sales and distribution. Company X had a joint venture (JV) with company Y, and they recently split. I was recruited by Y company management for X company when the JV was still active. After the split, I remained on X company's payrolls. Unfortunately, X company's headquarters is in Singapore, and they have delegated all decision-making authority to a technical individual who lacks experience in management or sales. Consequently, he does not comprehend the challenges faced by the sales team. As a result, X company terminated an employee by providing only one month's salary, despite the employee's satisfactory performance. The termination letter did not specify a reason, but an internal email mentioned "unethical behavior against HR policies" as the cause. The terminated employee did not engage in any unethical activities such as forgery, actions that could harm the company's reputation or assets, or any illegal behavior. The only action taken was the employee protesting against the manager's lack of support for professional conduct.
Thanks,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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We are into sales and distribution. Company X had a joint venture (JV) with company Y, and they recently split. I was recruited by Y company management for X company when the JV was still active. After the split, I remained on X company's payrolls. Unfortunately, X company's headquarters is in Singapore, and they have delegated all decision-making authority to a technical individual who lacks experience in management or sales. Consequently, he does not comprehend the challenges faced by the sales team. As a result, X company terminated an employee by providing only one month's salary, despite the employee's satisfactory performance. The termination letter did not specify a reason, but an internal email mentioned "unethical behavior against HR policies" as the cause. The terminated employee did not engage in any unethical activities such as forgery, actions that could harm the company's reputation or assets, or any illegal behavior. The only action taken was the employee protesting against the manager's lack of support for professional conduct.
Thanks,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear idi.vijai,
Thanks for the essential and additional inputs. I am relieved to know that we are discussing a modern company and an MNC.
Without commenting on the fairness or otherwise of the act of Termination per se, I would like to tell you that at times the management may indulge in some damage-control exercises to boost the sagging morale of its employees. The internal mails circulated constitute propaganda tools of this nature. Since it is an internal communication, the affected (terminated) employees can do little about it.
However, it is an entirely different thing if it is extended to the public domain - either on the net, TV, or print media. Under such circumstances, the company would make itself liable to be sued for libel and slander, and the damages can be quite high. No company can indulge in such adventures unless the person has been convicted of criminal charges in a court of law or matters pending police action, as otherwise, the company shall have to prove that its imputations and accusations are true.
Under the circumstances cited by you, I suggest that you can rest assured that the matter will not cross organization boundaries.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Thanks for the essential and additional inputs. I am relieved to know that we are discussing a modern company and an MNC.
Without commenting on the fairness or otherwise of the act of Termination per se, I would like to tell you that at times the management may indulge in some damage-control exercises to boost the sagging morale of its employees. The internal mails circulated constitute propaganda tools of this nature. Since it is an internal communication, the affected (terminated) employees can do little about it.
However, it is an entirely different thing if it is extended to the public domain - either on the net, TV, or print media. Under such circumstances, the company would make itself liable to be sued for libel and slander, and the damages can be quite high. No company can indulge in such adventures unless the person has been convicted of criminal charges in a court of law or matters pending police action, as otherwise, the company shall have to prove that its imputations and accusations are true.
Under the circumstances cited by you, I suggest that you can rest assured that the matter will not cross organization boundaries.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Raj Kumar,
Thanks for your active inputs. Since the email was circulated internally, you feel that there is no problem. What if the email is forwarded to any person outside? Does a person not have the right to seek recourse for libel or slander even if their image is damaged before employees of their company? What do we mean by public domain? Do the employees working in the company not qualify as public domain? If the terminated employee comes into contact with a good lawyer, even with a printout of the circulated email or the termination letter, I am sure I can sue the company under charges of defamation, etc.
CS Mukesh TANK
From India, Mumbai
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Thanks for your active inputs. Since the email was circulated internally, you feel that there is no problem. What if the email is forwarded to any person outside? Does a person not have the right to seek recourse for libel or slander even if their image is damaged before employees of their company? What do we mean by public domain? Do the employees working in the company not qualify as public domain? If the terminated employee comes into contact with a good lawyer, even with a printout of the circulated email or the termination letter, I am sure I can sue the company under charges of defamation, etc.
CS Mukesh TANK
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Raj/Mukesh,
Thank you for your valuable inputs. If the mail is circulated in the company stating that he has behaved unethically and against HR policies (without being marked to the senior management, Manager/Directors in HO), the company does not need to pay for the notice period. However, in this case, they have paid for the notice period. The termination letter did not mention any reason, nor was an exit interview conducted to discuss the behavior. There were no memos or warning letters given before the termination.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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Thank you for your valuable inputs. If the mail is circulated in the company stating that he has behaved unethically and against HR policies (without being marked to the senior management, Manager/Directors in HO), the company does not need to pay for the notice period. However, in this case, they have paid for the notice period. The termination letter did not mention any reason, nor was an exit interview conducted to discuss the behavior. There were no memos or warning letters given before the termination.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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If an employee "A" is terminated by the company "X" following the due process, the company can circulate the termination internally. It is not necessary for the company to state the reasons for termination.
Prabhakar Rao S
From India
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Prabhakar Rao S
From India
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Hi Prabhakar,
If they are not able to mention the reason in the termination letter, then why is the company badmouthing about the employee internally? Not only badmouthing but also sending official mails internally stating that the employee has acted unethically and worked against HR policies.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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If they are not able to mention the reason in the termination letter, then why is the company badmouthing about the employee internally? Not only badmouthing but also sending official mails internally stating that the employee has acted unethically and worked against HR policies.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear All,
One of my friends came across such a situation. He is working as a team member. Now, what his manager is often doing is, if some of the team members do well, he would mark cc to all praising their work and then would ask everyone to follow the same; otherwise, he mentions that they will face consequences. Many times he has openly written that doors are open. Can such actions be challenged legally?
Please guide.
Regards,
SIDMAN
From India, Madras
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One of my friends came across such a situation. He is working as a team member. Now, what his manager is often doing is, if some of the team members do well, he would mark cc to all praising their work and then would ask everyone to follow the same; otherwise, he mentions that they will face consequences. Many times he has openly written that doors are open. Can such actions be challenged legally?
Please guide.
Regards,
SIDMAN
From India, Madras
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Hello Raj Kumar Ji,
I have no doubt about your wisdom and have no intention to prove myself. I believe that on this platform we exchange our views, share our experiences, and understandings. Senior members have every right to guide us on occasions when we are not on the right path/direction.
The query posted was...unfortunately the X company has its HO in Singapore, and they have given all the powers to a technical guy who doesn't have any experience in either management or sales. As a result, he doesn't understand any of the pain points of the sales guys, for which X has terminated its employee by giving one month's salary, though the performance of the employee was good. They have not mentioned any reason in the termination letter but they have circulated an internal mail saying that it is because of unethical behavior against HR policies. Here the employee has not done any kind of unethical things like forgery, activities that damage the company assets/image, nor any illegal things. The only thing he has done is protesting the manager when he was not supporting his profession.
Now, as per my knowledge and understanding, when an employee is terminated, there must be some paperwork in place. The company has to issue a memo, frame a charge-sheet, give an opportunity of hearing to the employee, and the final decision may be taken by the Disciplinary Committee.
In this instance, no such action is taken, and even the termination letter is not based on any reasons. Hence, I felt that if any email communication is sent to all the internal employees stating that such an employee was terminated due to unethical behavior against HR policy and the employer is not in a position to prove such a charge, I personally feel that in such an event, the employee can initiate a case of defamation.
Now, the essentials of defamation:
As per IPC section 499. Defamation
Whoever, by words either spoken or intended to be read, or by signs or by visible representations, makes or publishes any imputation concerning any person intending to harm, or knowing or having reason to believe that such imputation will harm, the reputation of such a person, is said, except in the cases hereinafter excepted, to defame that person.
Explanation 1: It may amount to defamation to impute anything to a deceased person if the imputation would harm the reputation of that person if living and is intended to be hurtful to the feelings of his family or other near relatives.
Explanation 2: It may amount to defamation to make an imputation concerning a company or an association or collection of persons as such.
Explanation 3: An imputation in the form of an alternative or expressed ironically may amount to defamation.
Explanation 4: No imputation is said to harm a person's reputation unless that imputation directly or indirectly, in the estimation of others, lowers the moral or intellectual character of that person or lowers the character of that person in respect of his caste or his calling or lowers the credit of that person or causes it to be believed that the body of that person is in a loathsome state or in a state generally considered disgraceful.
Imputation means a statement attributing something dishonest, especially a criminal offense.
Publishes means to prepare and issue (printed material) for public distribution or sale.
The definition of public is very general; in the present case, the email was circulated to employees working in the Company; hence all his colleagues, friends had been served with a communication that was not true and was defamatory to his character.
Privileged communication means a conversation that takes place within the context of a protected relationship, such as that between an attorney and client, a husband and wife, a priest and penitent, and a doctor and patient.
An inter-office memo can be construed as privileged communication, but circulating an email asserting something untrue will come within the preview of defamation, as per my understanding. If the facts were true that an employee had been involved in unethical behavior, then there is no case of defamation.
Hope I am on the right path; seniors, please enlighten us with your expert views and comments.
Sincerely yours,
Mukesh TANK
From India, Mumbai
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I have no doubt about your wisdom and have no intention to prove myself. I believe that on this platform we exchange our views, share our experiences, and understandings. Senior members have every right to guide us on occasions when we are not on the right path/direction.
The query posted was...unfortunately the X company has its HO in Singapore, and they have given all the powers to a technical guy who doesn't have any experience in either management or sales. As a result, he doesn't understand any of the pain points of the sales guys, for which X has terminated its employee by giving one month's salary, though the performance of the employee was good. They have not mentioned any reason in the termination letter but they have circulated an internal mail saying that it is because of unethical behavior against HR policies. Here the employee has not done any kind of unethical things like forgery, activities that damage the company assets/image, nor any illegal things. The only thing he has done is protesting the manager when he was not supporting his profession.
Now, as per my knowledge and understanding, when an employee is terminated, there must be some paperwork in place. The company has to issue a memo, frame a charge-sheet, give an opportunity of hearing to the employee, and the final decision may be taken by the Disciplinary Committee.
In this instance, no such action is taken, and even the termination letter is not based on any reasons. Hence, I felt that if any email communication is sent to all the internal employees stating that such an employee was terminated due to unethical behavior against HR policy and the employer is not in a position to prove such a charge, I personally feel that in such an event, the employee can initiate a case of defamation.
Now, the essentials of defamation:
As per IPC section 499. Defamation
Whoever, by words either spoken or intended to be read, or by signs or by visible representations, makes or publishes any imputation concerning any person intending to harm, or knowing or having reason to believe that such imputation will harm, the reputation of such a person, is said, except in the cases hereinafter excepted, to defame that person.
Explanation 1: It may amount to defamation to impute anything to a deceased person if the imputation would harm the reputation of that person if living and is intended to be hurtful to the feelings of his family or other near relatives.
Explanation 2: It may amount to defamation to make an imputation concerning a company or an association or collection of persons as such.
Explanation 3: An imputation in the form of an alternative or expressed ironically may amount to defamation.
Explanation 4: No imputation is said to harm a person's reputation unless that imputation directly or indirectly, in the estimation of others, lowers the moral or intellectual character of that person or lowers the character of that person in respect of his caste or his calling or lowers the credit of that person or causes it to be believed that the body of that person is in a loathsome state or in a state generally considered disgraceful.
Imputation means a statement attributing something dishonest, especially a criminal offense.
Publishes means to prepare and issue (printed material) for public distribution or sale.
The definition of public is very general; in the present case, the email was circulated to employees working in the Company; hence all his colleagues, friends had been served with a communication that was not true and was defamatory to his character.
Privileged communication means a conversation that takes place within the context of a protected relationship, such as that between an attorney and client, a husband and wife, a priest and penitent, and a doctor and patient.
An inter-office memo can be construed as privileged communication, but circulating an email asserting something untrue will come within the preview of defamation, as per my understanding. If the facts were true that an employee had been involved in unethical behavior, then there is no case of defamation.
Hope I am on the right path; seniors, please enlighten us with your expert views and comments.
Sincerely yours,
Mukesh TANK
From India, Mumbai
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Raj Kumar is correct. If any employee is terminated from service for bad conduct or whatever may be noticed by others, if the particular organization desires to know the terminated employee's conduct, the previous employer may disclose under the cover of "Private & Confidential." However, one thing should be cautioned to the new employer: "If for any reason the particulars submitted by the previous employer are disclosed, the said organization will not be held responsible for such acts or deeds."
P.B. Chakrabarti (Retd. Manager, Personnel & HR)
State Bank of India.
From India, Calcutta
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P.B. Chakrabarti (Retd. Manager, Personnel & HR)
State Bank of India.
From India, Calcutta
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Legally it was not valid. Employer or the officer incharge, who has been appointed as an acting employer can be circulate the termination order.
From India, Secunderabad
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From India, Secunderabad
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Dear Friends,
We follow one principle: Honourable exit. Even if the employee is not performing, we give the opportunity to improve. Failing which, we advise the employee to submit their resignation instead of treating it as termination, as that could leave a black mark on the employee's career.
For internal communication, we send a simple message stating that the employee is leaving for personal reasons. Only if the employee has liaisons with external agencies, do we communicate with them, again using the same message.
As HR professionals, we should not harass or victimize the outgoing employee. It is important to maintain a good relationship even with ex-employees.
Regards,
Bhavan
From India, Bangalore
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We follow one principle: Honourable exit. Even if the employee is not performing, we give the opportunity to improve. Failing which, we advise the employee to submit their resignation instead of treating it as termination, as that could leave a black mark on the employee's career.
For internal communication, we send a simple message stating that the employee is leaving for personal reasons. Only if the employee has liaisons with external agencies, do we communicate with them, again using the same message.
As HR professionals, we should not harass or victimize the outgoing employee. It is important to maintain a good relationship even with ex-employees.
Regards,
Bhavan
From India, Bangalore
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Hi Bhavan,
That's the right thing to maintain relations with ex-employees, but there are people who want to disrupt their own organization by creating trouble for employees. As mentioned in my previous message, the employee was performing well and yielding good results. The only issue was that the employee didn't accept the person who was leading the company (specifically, a lead in customer support was promoted to country business head), and the country head was involved in giving and taking bribes. The employee protested against all these actions, causing the country head to perceive him as a threat, leading to his abrupt termination during a meeting where his belongings were seized, his email ID blocked, and he was asked to leave within 30 minutes. Fortunately, the reputation of the country manager's behavior is known to nearby companies, resulting in the terminated employee being offered jobs by 2 to 3 other companies.
I seek your advice on the legal action that can be taken against the country head for circulating an email alleging unethical behavior and violating internal HR policies. The employee has a copy of the email and was not provided with any reasons for the termination.
I aim to prevent any other employee from enduring a similar experience and wish to take action to ensure that the employer does not represent individuals who engage in corrupt practices.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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That's the right thing to maintain relations with ex-employees, but there are people who want to disrupt their own organization by creating trouble for employees. As mentioned in my previous message, the employee was performing well and yielding good results. The only issue was that the employee didn't accept the person who was leading the company (specifically, a lead in customer support was promoted to country business head), and the country head was involved in giving and taking bribes. The employee protested against all these actions, causing the country head to perceive him as a threat, leading to his abrupt termination during a meeting where his belongings were seized, his email ID blocked, and he was asked to leave within 30 minutes. Fortunately, the reputation of the country manager's behavior is known to nearby companies, resulting in the terminated employee being offered jobs by 2 to 3 other companies.
I seek your advice on the legal action that can be taken against the country head for circulating an email alleging unethical behavior and violating internal HR policies. The employee has a copy of the email and was not provided with any reasons for the termination.
I aim to prevent any other employee from enduring a similar experience and wish to take action to ensure that the employer does not represent individuals who engage in corrupt practices.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear All,
I appreciate the "fighting spirit" of our member Mukesh Tank.
At the same time, I think one should not mix up sentiments and stark realities or facts.
I agree with the sentiments expressed by members, which is reflected in my first response as quoted below.
All I meant to say in my second post is, an employer cannot 'publish' malicious matter about an ex-employee. However, if an employer circulates a termination letter within the organization, then it is difficult to punish an employer, since:
- it can be construed as a routine practice for all separations;
- "employment ethics" can be interpreted by the employer in his way or as per his code of conduct;
- an "internal communication" to other employees and related departments is considered, in general, a "privileged communication" outside the purview of Libel laws.
One does not need to hire a "good lawyer" to know that any employee who is terminated is free to file a court case, and every company that terminates an employee can be sued for 'wrongful termination'.
However, as a responsible forum for HR professionals, it would amount to unprofessional conduct if one instigates another member to file court cases or encourages unnecessary litigation.
Hope it clarifies the issues and puts the matter on the proper perspective.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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I appreciate the "fighting spirit" of our member Mukesh Tank.
At the same time, I think one should not mix up sentiments and stark realities or facts.
I agree with the sentiments expressed by members, which is reflected in my first response as quoted below.
All I meant to say in my second post is, an employer cannot 'publish' malicious matter about an ex-employee. However, if an employer circulates a termination letter within the organization, then it is difficult to punish an employer, since:
- it can be construed as a routine practice for all separations;
- "employment ethics" can be interpreted by the employer in his way or as per his code of conduct;
- an "internal communication" to other employees and related departments is considered, in general, a "privileged communication" outside the purview of Libel laws.
One does not need to hire a "good lawyer" to know that any employee who is terminated is free to file a court case, and every company that terminates an employee can be sued for 'wrongful termination'.
However, as a responsible forum for HR professionals, it would amount to unprofessional conduct if one instigates another member to file court cases or encourages unnecessary litigation.
Hope it clarifies the issues and puts the matter on the proper perspective.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Legal Clarification on Non-Performer Termination, Project Based Appointment Letter, Setting UP .pdf