Hi All,
I am handling the role of an HR Business Partner in a German-based investment bank in Bangalore. Recently, I have received a complaint from a group of team members in a certain department during my skip-level meeting with them. Everybody in the team is extremely unhappy with their operation manager due to his unethical behavior with a lady executive in his department. According to them, at times, they are not bothered about the surroundings in the office, and they behave very intimately in the office.
I had a meeting with his Assistant Vice President and came to a conclusion that he knows the entire case and is also trying to be defensive about the managers. I have also heard that if anybody tries to interfere in their department, then the business partner is immediately removed to another section of the process so that we would not have any opportunity to interfere with them.
Please advise me on how to handle this. I also had a chat with my boss, and he seems to know the entire situation. He, too, told me to avoid this case for the betterment of my career.
Please help.
Avik Roy
Manager - HR Generalist
From India, Delhi
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I am handling the role of an HR Business Partner in a German-based investment bank in Bangalore. Recently, I have received a complaint from a group of team members in a certain department during my skip-level meeting with them. Everybody in the team is extremely unhappy with their operation manager due to his unethical behavior with a lady executive in his department. According to them, at times, they are not bothered about the surroundings in the office, and they behave very intimately in the office.
I had a meeting with his Assistant Vice President and came to a conclusion that he knows the entire case and is also trying to be defensive about the managers. I have also heard that if anybody tries to interfere in their department, then the business partner is immediately removed to another section of the process so that we would not have any opportunity to interfere with them.
Please advise me on how to handle this. I also had a chat with my boss, and he seems to know the entire situation. He, too, told me to avoid this case for the betterment of my career.
Please help.
Avik Roy
Manager - HR Generalist
From India, Delhi
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Dear Avik,
The incident goes on to show the importance of HR policies. Do you have the "Policy on Workplace Romance" well in place? If not, then why did you not design it earlier? Had the policy been there, it would have helped you handle this incident.
Secondly, how true is the saying "Boss is always right"? You are talking about a foreign bank operating in Bangalore. The story is not of some industrial shade of Peenya Industrial Estate. Should I say that MNCs like yours or ordinary companies of India are all "birds of a feather"?
You have the following options to choose from:
a) If you are not worried about your job, then you can take the bull by its horns. Take up cudgels and talk to the couple, counsel them. If they don't heed your advice (which they will not anyway), make a formal report in writing to your superior. If nothing happens, then escalate the matter to further superiors in Germany. Remember, "an ox is taken by the horns and a man by the tongue."
b) If you are worried about your job, then it's better to "throw in the towel" and keep quiet. If you have spoken to your AVP and he is defensive, then what is the point in raising the daggers? But make it a point, if the situation comes to a head, he is going to feign ignorance.
c) The third option is a little cowardly. Take photographs of the intimate position of the couple. Forward them to your superiors in Germany from a dummy email ID. In the email, write that what the couple does in the office is an open secret. Not only an open secret, but this is routine as well. But I doubt anything worthwhile will happen because from their cultural point of view, these things are not important to them.
The incident underscores the importance of the listening skills of business leaders. Our listening skills are good when we listen to what we want to hear. After all, about four centuries ago, Shakespeare said, "A king knows what his courtiers want him to know." How true the quote is for your bosses too!
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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8072The incident goes on to show the importance of HR policies. Do you have the "Policy on Workplace Romance" well in place? If not, then why did you not design it earlier? Had the policy been there, it would have helped you handle this incident.
Secondly, how true is the saying "Boss is always right"? You are talking about a foreign bank operating in Bangalore. The story is not of some industrial shade of Peenya Industrial Estate. Should I say that MNCs like yours or ordinary companies of India are all "birds of a feather"?
You have the following options to choose from:
a) If you are not worried about your job, then you can take the bull by its horns. Take up cudgels and talk to the couple, counsel them. If they don't heed your advice (which they will not anyway), make a formal report in writing to your superior. If nothing happens, then escalate the matter to further superiors in Germany. Remember, "an ox is taken by the horns and a man by the tongue."
b) If you are worried about your job, then it's better to "throw in the towel" and keep quiet. If you have spoken to your AVP and he is defensive, then what is the point in raising the daggers? But make it a point, if the situation comes to a head, he is going to feign ignorance.
c) The third option is a little cowardly. Take photographs of the intimate position of the couple. Forward them to your superiors in Germany from a dummy email ID. In the email, write that what the couple does in the office is an open secret. Not only an open secret, but this is routine as well. But I doubt anything worthwhile will happen because from their cultural point of view, these things are not important to them.
The incident underscores the importance of the listening skills of business leaders. Our listening skills are good when we listen to what we want to hear. After all, about four centuries ago, Shakespeare said, "A king knows what his courtiers want him to know." How true the quote is for your bosses too!
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Avik,
Another important thing is that today's workplace romance should not turn into tomorrow's sexual harassment case. I have seen 1-2 cases go that way. Bring this point to the notice of your boss or AVP, albeit subtly.
Some time ago, this very forum had a case where it was mentioned that love between two employees blossomed, led to marriage, and then resulted in discord. In a workplace confrontation, the wife filed a complaint of sexual harassment against her husband!
In such instances, management and other staff members always find themselves in a dilemma. When cases of sexual harassment surface, higher officials tend to distance themselves, leaving HR as the first scapegoat - "as an HR professional, you should be aware of what's happening around you."
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Another important thing is that today's workplace romance should not turn into tomorrow's sexual harassment case. I have seen 1-2 cases go that way. Bring this point to the notice of your boss or AVP, albeit subtly.
Some time ago, this very forum had a case where it was mentioned that love between two employees blossomed, led to marriage, and then resulted in discord. In a workplace confrontation, the wife filed a complaint of sexual harassment against her husband!
In such instances, management and other staff members always find themselves in a dilemma. When cases of sexual harassment surface, higher officials tend to distance themselves, leaving HR as the first scapegoat - "as an HR professional, you should be aware of what's happening around you."
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear All, Thank you so much for your active participation.Am sure to get a resolution for this very soon .I will do let you know the end result of this. Regards, Avik Roy Manager-HR GENERALIST
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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I must commend Dinesh Divekar for his in-depth comment on the issue involved and citing previous posts at CiteHR.
Even in the West, where I have worked, intimacy at work which affects other members of staff is not tolerated. Sometimes, during Xmas parties when people are not that sober, people hug and kiss.
I had not come across any policy on such behavior, as it is expected that staff would behave in an appropriate professional manner when at work.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Even in the West, where I have worked, intimacy at work which affects other members of staff is not tolerated. Sometimes, during Xmas parties when people are not that sober, people hug and kiss.
I had not come across any policy on such behavior, as it is expected that staff would behave in an appropriate professional manner when at work.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Mr. Avik Roy,
I have gone through your problem and the suggestions given by our colleagues. Mr. Dinesh V Divekar has offered you a nice suggestion, and I strongly agree with him. Please keep in mind that despite the matter being brought to your notice, if you remain quiet and do not take any initiative to tackle the issue at hand, it will definitely undermine the image of your organization and personally reflect on you as an HR Generalist.
Firstly, you should bring it to the attention of your immediate boss and discuss with him the consequences of indiscipline among the staff if such things are allowed within the office premises, especially during office hours. After taking his opinion, you can then decide on the course of action. If necessary, you should directly discuss the matter with the top bosses to resolve the issue.
I strongly believe that such inappropriate behavior should not be tolerated in the office. Failure to take action on this issue will certainly impact the general discipline of your organization, and others may view it as a precedent, making it difficult for you to make decisions and take action. We cannot tolerate any misconduct, even if it involves an employee holding a managerial position.
By bringing this issue to the attention of your top bosses, they will undoubtedly support you in addressing the problem. Start by calling the manager and the lady executive to your office and explain to them how such behaviors tarnish their personal image and affect the overall discipline within the organization.
No top boss in any organization tolerates such indiscipline, as it has a direct impact on the overall performance and image of the organization.
Regards,
N.V. Rao Hyderabad.
From India, Hyderabad
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I have gone through your problem and the suggestions given by our colleagues. Mr. Dinesh V Divekar has offered you a nice suggestion, and I strongly agree with him. Please keep in mind that despite the matter being brought to your notice, if you remain quiet and do not take any initiative to tackle the issue at hand, it will definitely undermine the image of your organization and personally reflect on you as an HR Generalist.
Firstly, you should bring it to the attention of your immediate boss and discuss with him the consequences of indiscipline among the staff if such things are allowed within the office premises, especially during office hours. After taking his opinion, you can then decide on the course of action. If necessary, you should directly discuss the matter with the top bosses to resolve the issue.
I strongly believe that such inappropriate behavior should not be tolerated in the office. Failure to take action on this issue will certainly impact the general discipline of your organization, and others may view it as a precedent, making it difficult for you to make decisions and take action. We cannot tolerate any misconduct, even if it involves an employee holding a managerial position.
By bringing this issue to the attention of your top bosses, they will undoubtedly support you in addressing the problem. Start by calling the manager and the lady executive to your office and explain to them how such behaviors tarnish their personal image and affect the overall discipline within the organization.
No top boss in any organization tolerates such indiscipline, as it has a direct impact on the overall performance and image of the organization.
Regards,
N.V. Rao Hyderabad.
From India, Hyderabad
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Is there a sexual harassment policy in your company? If yes, you could leverage your inputs from your skip-level meetings with employees who have complained about the office lovebirds to file a suo moto complaint and then deal accordingly with the policy's administrative procedure.
However, this is more a case of idealism vs rationality. Idealism will demand that you be true to your role, which demands that you take corrective action against any deviant behavior as a custodian of your organization's values for the benefit of your organization. However, given that your own superior as well as the business function head are both cognizant of this office romance and have decided to give a blind eye to it, you risk antagonizing your superior and your career growth prospects if you persist in the spirit of idealism.
The choice is yours to make depending upon your own circumstances and individual beliefs/value system. However, were you to adopt the rational approach of not going full-steam ahead to take any corrective action, as pointed out by Dinesh, do watch your back as it is very common for HR operatives to be made the scapegoat of misfeasance/malfeasance of business stars for which their superiors share the complicity in as much as they have decided to wink an eye and decided not to do anything about it. It is not uncommon for superiors to goad you into having a verbal dialogue with them instead of anything getting documented through emails which may point to their complicity later. They will do so under the garb of verbal communication being a more effective form of communications based on trust and make you feel guilty of having put anything on records. My advice to you will be that in such a case, you should still document (through email to your boss) your findings and recommendations for some corrective action while seeking sanction/feedback from your boss on the suggested course of action. At best, your boss will reply back to you and close the loop, in which case you will be safe. If he chooses not to, your position will still be secure for the fact that you did what you were expected to do by bringing this to the attention of your boss and the culpability for not taking any action on your suggestions would then rest on him in case anyone tried to place the finger of blame on you going forward.
Thanks.
From India, Ghaziabad
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However, this is more a case of idealism vs rationality. Idealism will demand that you be true to your role, which demands that you take corrective action against any deviant behavior as a custodian of your organization's values for the benefit of your organization. However, given that your own superior as well as the business function head are both cognizant of this office romance and have decided to give a blind eye to it, you risk antagonizing your superior and your career growth prospects if you persist in the spirit of idealism.
The choice is yours to make depending upon your own circumstances and individual beliefs/value system. However, were you to adopt the rational approach of not going full-steam ahead to take any corrective action, as pointed out by Dinesh, do watch your back as it is very common for HR operatives to be made the scapegoat of misfeasance/malfeasance of business stars for which their superiors share the complicity in as much as they have decided to wink an eye and decided not to do anything about it. It is not uncommon for superiors to goad you into having a verbal dialogue with them instead of anything getting documented through emails which may point to their complicity later. They will do so under the garb of verbal communication being a more effective form of communications based on trust and make you feel guilty of having put anything on records. My advice to you will be that in such a case, you should still document (through email to your boss) your findings and recommendations for some corrective action while seeking sanction/feedback from your boss on the suggested course of action. At best, your boss will reply back to you and close the loop, in which case you will be safe. If he chooses not to, your position will still be secure for the fact that you did what you were expected to do by bringing this to the attention of your boss and the culpability for not taking any action on your suggestions would then rest on him in case anyone tried to place the finger of blame on you going forward.
Thanks.
From India, Ghaziabad
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Have you ever questioned/thought about WHY they were not asked or probed about this issue? I can empathize with the frustration you are going through. This happened in my first job where my Team leader and Quality Auditor used to be so intimately close with each other, and even keep talking to each other while at work... talking is not the word I should use here. It was more of "playful winks, smiles, and sometimes hours of constant silence, but they used to keep looking at each other from their cabins. Weird...
The Management was aware of it and took no actions against them because the team lead was managing a huge client who only she in the whole team could manage well. The major source of income was from that client.
So in the above case, there is a reason (because she was wanted, no one wanted to take a risk). However, is this the same situation with you? Would you not be able to find a person to replace the Manager? Is the work of the Manager being affected? Are the other members feeling bad to be associated with the team in India? Start from here - you will be able to think of an option.
From India, Madras
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The Management was aware of it and took no actions against them because the team lead was managing a huge client who only she in the whole team could manage well. The major source of income was from that client.
So in the above case, there is a reason (because she was wanted, no one wanted to take a risk). However, is this the same situation with you? Would you not be able to find a person to replace the Manager? Is the work of the Manager being affected? Are the other members feeling bad to be associated with the team in India? Start from here - you will be able to think of an option.
From India, Madras
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Hi All,
I had a meeting with the manager, the lady executive, and my Vice President - HR Business Partner. We issued a memo to the manager, and later, he admitted that he made a serious mistake by not adhering to the company policy. In the memo, we stated that if he repeats the same activity on the office premises, he will be terminated immediately. This memo was duly signed by his superior as well.
Regarding the lady executive, we have counseled her, and she has expressed her desire to shift to a new process from now on.
We have decided to conduct a briefing session with all employees next week to discuss the Compliance policy. It is important to make all employees aware that our company does not tolerate any form of non-compliance activities.
Kind Regards,
Avik Roy
Manager - HR Generalist
From India, Delhi
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I had a meeting with the manager, the lady executive, and my Vice President - HR Business Partner. We issued a memo to the manager, and later, he admitted that he made a serious mistake by not adhering to the company policy. In the memo, we stated that if he repeats the same activity on the office premises, he will be terminated immediately. This memo was duly signed by his superior as well.
Regarding the lady executive, we have counseled her, and she has expressed her desire to shift to a new process from now on.
We have decided to conduct a briefing session with all employees next week to discuss the Compliance policy. It is important to make all employees aware that our company does not tolerate any form of non-compliance activities.
Kind Regards,
Avik Roy
Manager - HR Generalist
From India, Delhi
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Dear Avik,
I stand by what RSK said in the above comment. You did not look at the incident but you looked at the persons while delivering justice. Before taking any action, you should have thought of the principles of natural justice. All are equal before the law, and there should not be any gender discrimination. If both have committed the offense, then both should be punished.
Possibly, you can reconsider your decision now and give some exemplary punishment to both of them.
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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I stand by what RSK said in the above comment. You did not look at the incident but you looked at the persons while delivering justice. Before taking any action, you should have thought of the principles of natural justice. All are equal before the law, and there should not be any gender discrimination. If both have committed the offense, then both should be punished.
Possibly, you can reconsider your decision now and give some exemplary punishment to both of them.
Ok...
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear RSK,
I beg to differ from your opinion.
I presume that the concerned Manager is senior and the lady Executive is junior.
According to you, since both were (or appeared to be) intimate, both should get EQUAL punishment, right?
My dear friend, do you know, for instance, in some organizations' Code of Conduct, it is forbidden to seek any monetary or other pecuniary help from a subordinate?
Why? And why is this rule not applicable in case you seek assistance from a Senior?
Because (I'll answer it for you): when you solicit something from a senior/superior, he/she has a RIGHT to say NO; he/she can refuse to agree with you.
But, in the case of a junior, you do not give him/her the right/privilege to disagree or say NO or dare to refuse. Implying that a junior can be pressurized/coerced to give his/her acceptance/agreement to a wrongful act, whereas in reality, he/she does not agree with it.
Therefore, the differential punishment awarded is just and fair to both the offenders.
Hope the issue is clear to you now. (No offense meant. I know you are smart and sharp. I have the feeling that your response is just to JUDGE the capability of HR professionals in being able to arrive at correct thinking/decision independently, even if the evidence points otherwise. Looks like a Vikram-Vetal question. By the way, do you know, this is the name given to the training program in Future Group (Big Bazaar) involving Case Studies.)
Let us congratulate Avik: on taking the bold step of catching the bull by the horn, and as we can see, the unethical manager had to bite the dust.
P.S.: It's good that the matter has been resolved; else apart from a Workplace Romance Policy, I was also going to suggest a Consensual Relationship Agreement a.k.a. Love Contract to be signed by both the parties; which indemnifies a company in case of potential sexual harassment charges when the romance turns sour. Being an MNC, the acceptance would not be a problem.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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I beg to differ from your opinion.
I presume that the concerned Manager is senior and the lady Executive is junior.
According to you, since both were (or appeared to be) intimate, both should get EQUAL punishment, right?
My dear friend, do you know, for instance, in some organizations' Code of Conduct, it is forbidden to seek any monetary or other pecuniary help from a subordinate?
Why? And why is this rule not applicable in case you seek assistance from a Senior?
Because (I'll answer it for you): when you solicit something from a senior/superior, he/she has a RIGHT to say NO; he/she can refuse to agree with you.
But, in the case of a junior, you do not give him/her the right/privilege to disagree or say NO or dare to refuse. Implying that a junior can be pressurized/coerced to give his/her acceptance/agreement to a wrongful act, whereas in reality, he/she does not agree with it.
Therefore, the differential punishment awarded is just and fair to both the offenders.
Hope the issue is clear to you now. (No offense meant. I know you are smart and sharp. I have the feeling that your response is just to JUDGE the capability of HR professionals in being able to arrive at correct thinking/decision independently, even if the evidence points otherwise. Looks like a Vikram-Vetal question. By the way, do you know, this is the name given to the training program in Future Group (Big Bazaar) involving Case Studies.)
Let us congratulate Avik: on taking the bold step of catching the bull by the horn, and as we can see, the unethical manager had to bite the dust.
P.S.: It's good that the matter has been resolved; else apart from a Workplace Romance Policy, I was also going to suggest a Consensual Relationship Agreement a.k.a. Love Contract to be signed by both the parties; which indemnifies a company in case of potential sexual harassment charges when the romance turns sour. Being an MNC, the acceptance would not be a problem.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ravi,
Actually, Mr. Raj is right when he mentioned "when you solicit something from a senior/superior, he/she has a RIGHT to say NO; he/she can refuse to agree with you. But in the case of a junior, you do not give him/her the right/privilege to disagree or say NO or dare to refuse."
I agree when you state "intimate" - it is further beyond than just a mere advance from one end. However, the punishment for a senior is tougher in these situations compared to what a subordinate has to go through because the subordinate listens to the boss. If a boss says something, and the subordinate is sure that it will be a flop business plan but still has to listen to the "Boss," the boss has to be blamed! So the same applies here.
And Awik: Congratulations!!
From India, Madras
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Actually, Mr. Raj is right when he mentioned "when you solicit something from a senior/superior, he/she has a RIGHT to say NO; he/she can refuse to agree with you. But in the case of a junior, you do not give him/her the right/privilege to disagree or say NO or dare to refuse."
I agree when you state "intimate" - it is further beyond than just a mere advance from one end. However, the punishment for a senior is tougher in these situations compared to what a subordinate has to go through because the subordinate listens to the boss. If a boss says something, and the subordinate is sure that it will be a flop business plan but still has to listen to the "Boss," the boss has to be blamed! So the same applies here.
And Awik: Congratulations!!
From India, Madras
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Mr. Avik Roy,
You have done a good thing. After going through the remarks of our colleagues regarding the discrimination in the punishment imposed on the manager and the lady executive, I do not agree with their opinion. As a manager, one should not pressure his female subordinate to have an affair with him. Otherwise, there is a chance for him to exercise bias, creating problems in the workplace or recommending no increments during her appraisal, etc.
It is likely that your lady executive fell into the trap of the manager, causing her to suffer equally for such actions. I sincerely appreciate your timely decision to ensure the general discipline of your organization.
Regards,
N.V. Rao
Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
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You have done a good thing. After going through the remarks of our colleagues regarding the discrimination in the punishment imposed on the manager and the lady executive, I do not agree with their opinion. As a manager, one should not pressure his female subordinate to have an affair with him. Otherwise, there is a chance for him to exercise bias, creating problems in the workplace or recommending no increments during her appraisal, etc.
It is likely that your lady executive fell into the trap of the manager, causing her to suffer equally for such actions. I sincerely appreciate your timely decision to ensure the general discipline of your organization.
Regards,
N.V. Rao
Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
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