Hi All, Kindly let me know if the office boys/girls are eligible to get the offer letter? Thanks, Ajitha. C
From India, Madras
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40From India, Madras
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If they are coming under the payroll of the Organization, then they are suppose to receive a offer letter....
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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According to me, you should know that I have started this practice in my company, and we have received a positive response from it. The office boys and girls also felt that they have been given the same treatment as others receive. Additionally, it makes HR life easier because it is on record.
Umesh
From India, Pune
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Umesh
From India, Pune
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once they are offered the letter, they feel secure and a welcome part of the organisation. else they feel they all are temporary people
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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I agree with psDhingra.
And Ravi - AKA Anonymous A / TAZ.INDIA / RAVI . K.
It's not about brushing or painting one's knowledge! It's about having experience in those areas and then suggesting. I am sure you don't have the answer "yes / No". You yourself don't know! I did not want to be harsh with you at all. But seriously, too much of something (that rarely makes sense) from your end cannot be tolerated after a certain point of time.
From India, Madras
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And Ravi - AKA Anonymous A / TAZ.INDIA / RAVI . K.
It's not about brushing or painting one's knowledge! It's about having experience in those areas and then suggesting. I am sure you don't have the answer "yes / No". You yourself don't know! I did not want to be harsh with you at all. But seriously, too much of something (that rarely makes sense) from your end cannot be tolerated after a certain point of time.
From India, Madras
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Thank you to the others for responding. Thanks for the question, Ajithaa.
We have never had this practice before, except for collecting basic information and having the person sign a register for the payment of salary. However, I think I will start issuing offer letters - in the local language as well as English. After all, it's a matter of creating a "Sense of Belongingness."
From India, Madras
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We have never had this practice before, except for collecting basic information and having the person sign a register for the payment of salary. However, I think I will start issuing offer letters - in the local language as well as English. After all, it's a matter of creating a "Sense of Belongingness."
From India, Madras
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If you know the answer please advise. Well - what is your MNC practise (in some post you said you are an HR Manager in anMNC right? ) So share it with us!
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hi Ajithaa,
There are different practices followed in various organizations. While some issue Offer Letters, some HR departments have records of NDAs that are obtained from contractor agencies. In many cases, it's required to have a copy of their Offer Letters along with the personal records, identification proof, and NDA. However, if office boys/girls are on direct payroll, their Offer Letters can be issued.
Whatever the case may be, a sense of belongingness can be strengthened by the way we treat and care for people.
Regards,
Arti
From India, New Delhi
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There are different practices followed in various organizations. While some issue Offer Letters, some HR departments have records of NDAs that are obtained from contractor agencies. In many cases, it's required to have a copy of their Offer Letters along with the personal records, identification proof, and NDA. However, if office boys/girls are on direct payroll, their Offer Letters can be issued.
Whatever the case may be, a sense of belongingness can be strengthened by the way we treat and care for people.
Regards,
Arti
From India, New Delhi
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This is why I said - first you should have experience... without that what ever you say makes no sense. Now "it’s obvious" that you have not answered the question.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Dear Anonymous,
You seem to be a senior person in HR, but your comment was uncalled for. She appears to be a newcomer in this role and obviously needs our help in growing within this position. It's a very practical question, and I don't think these things are taught in B-schools.
On the other hand, I do agree that most companies do not keep housekeeping staff on their payroll. They are usually managed through a vendor, which lightens the liability as a direct employer. For example, employing them directly would make it very difficult for an organization to terminate their services as you would have to follow the ID Act.
On the contrary, if you employ them through a vendor, your liability would be minimal, but as a Principal Employer, you would still have to maintain data and ensure timely salary, minimum wages, PF, gratuity, ESI, etc.
Additionally, just by giving out an offer or appointment letter doesn't make them feel better. You need to treat them with respect and dignity, and if possible, involve and invite them to office functions. I'm sure this would help a lot.
From India
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You seem to be a senior person in HR, but your comment was uncalled for. She appears to be a newcomer in this role and obviously needs our help in growing within this position. It's a very practical question, and I don't think these things are taught in B-schools.
On the other hand, I do agree that most companies do not keep housekeeping staff on their payroll. They are usually managed through a vendor, which lightens the liability as a direct employer. For example, employing them directly would make it very difficult for an organization to terminate their services as you would have to follow the ID Act.
On the contrary, if you employ them through a vendor, your liability would be minimal, but as a Principal Employer, you would still have to maintain data and ensure timely salary, minimum wages, PF, gratuity, ESI, etc.
Additionally, just by giving out an offer or appointment letter doesn't make them feel better. You need to treat them with respect and dignity, and if possible, involve and invite them to office functions. I'm sure this would help a lot.
From India
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Dear Anonymous,
Let us be professional; criticizing is not right. Deploying office boys on contract is the right thing, but in certain cases, it can be a suicidal effort. The housekeeping/manpower contractors will regularly deploy new people, making it difficult to manage critical activities with them. For instance, an office boy in the Chairman/MD/CEO's office requires a regular presence; otherwise, the HR/Admin manager will have to face issues daily. Therefore, it is better to evaluate, understand, and deploy accordingly.
With best regards,
Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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Let us be professional; criticizing is not right. Deploying office boys on contract is the right thing, but in certain cases, it can be a suicidal effort. The housekeeping/manpower contractors will regularly deploy new people, making it difficult to manage critical activities with them. For instance, an office boy in the Chairman/MD/CEO's office requires a regular presence; otherwise, the HR/Admin manager will have to face issues daily. Therefore, it is better to evaluate, understand, and deploy accordingly.
With best regards,
Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Ajithaa,
Even though we are in the computer world, the manual system in offer letters, resignation letters, leave letters, and joining reports is essential, as the HR Department/personnel department is linked with legality. So, if an employee is on the payroll other than as a casual employee, they are to be provided with an offer letter containing necessary important conditions.
From India, Madras
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Even though we are in the computer world, the manual system in offer letters, resignation letters, leave letters, and joining reports is essential, as the HR Department/personnel department is linked with legality. So, if an employee is on the payroll other than as a casual employee, they are to be provided with an offer letter containing necessary important conditions.
From India, Madras
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Ofcourse yes they are elligible to get the offer letters if they have are meeting the requirements and fit best in the current scenerio.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Hi,
If their gross salary satisfies the criteria of the Minimum Wages Act, then you can keep the salary details in the appointment order; otherwise, your team could be in trouble. Treating every employee with equality is the main motto of HRD, so your step is an initiative.
From India, Vijayawada
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If their gross salary satisfies the criteria of the Minimum Wages Act, then you can keep the salary details in the appointment order; otherwise, your team could be in trouble. Treating every employee with equality is the main motto of HRD, so your step is an initiative.
From India, Vijayawada
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Dear Ajitha,
Did you get the answer to your query? Or, are you more confused? I would like to clarify in a more holistic way because you have not given any information about your company. But the fact that this question arose in your mind (here I agree with AnonymousA's comments that an HR executive is supposed to know these basics) implies that yours is a small company with no well-laid-out HR policies.
In traditional big Indian companies, PSUs, etc.: practice good people management practices. Every employee is considered/treated equal in terms of principles of employment. So whether he is a peon/messenger/office-boy - if he is in a regular role - he is entitled to all official documents related to his employment, (like any other employee), such as appointment letter, increment letter, promotion letter, appraisals, etc.
Midsized new-age companies (>20K Cr.), MNCs, etc.: Here, the trend is not to inflate headcount (as it affects productivity figures), so such and other similar services are outsourced to the extent possible, to a contractor. The system is exactly what Mr. Anonymous has described:
"all the office boys are on the payroll of our housekeeping contractor, and we pay a fixed amount to the housekeeping contractor for providing all services related to housekeeping. So we enjoy services of office boys, without any liability, so tomorrow if we don't want any office boy we can ask the contractor to remove them."
In such a scenario, of course, there is no question of an offer letter, etc.
Small companies: Here they follow an ad-hoc system. The peon/office boys dealing with important tasks - like those attached to Chairman, Directors, going to Govt. offices, Banks, etc. are on a regular roll; the rest are casual, temporary, etc. The regular office boys can be given an offer letter/appointment letter, etc.
But since these companies do not have any fair HR policies nor are very employee-friendly, it would be better that instead of seeking our opinion; you should ask your HR Director or your 'Honourable' Chairman for guidance or orders; else you may find yourself in trouble with the management.
Do contact me in case of any complications or further information.
Best regards.
From India, Delhi
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Did you get the answer to your query? Or, are you more confused? I would like to clarify in a more holistic way because you have not given any information about your company. But the fact that this question arose in your mind (here I agree with AnonymousA's comments that an HR executive is supposed to know these basics) implies that yours is a small company with no well-laid-out HR policies.
In traditional big Indian companies, PSUs, etc.: practice good people management practices. Every employee is considered/treated equal in terms of principles of employment. So whether he is a peon/messenger/office-boy - if he is in a regular role - he is entitled to all official documents related to his employment, (like any other employee), such as appointment letter, increment letter, promotion letter, appraisals, etc.
Midsized new-age companies (>20K Cr.), MNCs, etc.: Here, the trend is not to inflate headcount (as it affects productivity figures), so such and other similar services are outsourced to the extent possible, to a contractor. The system is exactly what Mr. Anonymous has described:
"all the office boys are on the payroll of our housekeeping contractor, and we pay a fixed amount to the housekeeping contractor for providing all services related to housekeeping. So we enjoy services of office boys, without any liability, so tomorrow if we don't want any office boy we can ask the contractor to remove them."
In such a scenario, of course, there is no question of an offer letter, etc.
Small companies: Here they follow an ad-hoc system. The peon/office boys dealing with important tasks - like those attached to Chairman, Directors, going to Govt. offices, Banks, etc. are on a regular roll; the rest are casual, temporary, etc. The regular office boys can be given an offer letter/appointment letter, etc.
But since these companies do not have any fair HR policies nor are very employee-friendly, it would be better that instead of seeking our opinion; you should ask your HR Director or your 'Honourable' Chairman for guidance or orders; else you may find yourself in trouble with the management.
Do contact me in case of any complications or further information.
Best regards.
From India, Delhi
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Yes, of course! Every person associated with and working for the organization should be provided with an offer letter regardless of their position. The offer letter should clearly state the designation, nature of work, company rules, and all other benefits that the organization provides.
J P Singh
Head - IT & Operations
Head - Depository Services (NSDL & CDSL)
Head - Institutional Business (Equity)
Contact: 98702 77049
From India, Mumbai
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J P Singh
Head - IT & Operations
Head - Depository Services (NSDL & CDSL)
Head - Institutional Business (Equity)
Contact: 98702 77049
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Anonymous,
I have already mentioned "nobody can claim to be an expert", even you or me. If someone does not have the knowledge about a particular thing, we must not refrain from guiding him or her. Even the doctors in your example consult other medical experts when needed to better serve society.
If your subordinate comes to you and asks for clarification and your reply is the same as you gave to Ajitha, that would not solve the organization's problem. Instead, the subordinate may act according to their own understanding. Just consider, what benefit does the organization have in keeping you in your position.
I once again stress that this forum is meant to help each other, not to rebuke the less knowledgeable. Rather, they should benefit from our knowledge. No matter how expert you are, sometimes you may also need to ask for help in this forum to solve a challenging problem in your organization. Think, if someone gives you the same reply you gave to Ajitha, how would you feel at that time?
Sorry if I have hurt your sentiments. I don't know your position, but I expect that as a responsible HR professional, you would definitely like to help others if you have a solution to the problem.
Regards,
Dhingra
From India, Delhi
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I have already mentioned "nobody can claim to be an expert", even you or me. If someone does not have the knowledge about a particular thing, we must not refrain from guiding him or her. Even the doctors in your example consult other medical experts when needed to better serve society.
If your subordinate comes to you and asks for clarification and your reply is the same as you gave to Ajitha, that would not solve the organization's problem. Instead, the subordinate may act according to their own understanding. Just consider, what benefit does the organization have in keeping you in your position.
I once again stress that this forum is meant to help each other, not to rebuke the less knowledgeable. Rather, they should benefit from our knowledge. No matter how expert you are, sometimes you may also need to ask for help in this forum to solve a challenging problem in your organization. Think, if someone gives you the same reply you gave to Ajitha, how would you feel at that time?
Sorry if I have hurt your sentiments. I don't know your position, but I expect that as a responsible HR professional, you would definitely like to help others if you have a solution to the problem.
Regards,
Dhingra
From India, Delhi
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Yes Asha, You are quite correct. I can say with confidence that the fellow, who posed to be an expert, could not even understand the spirit of the question, so how he can answer that?
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Hi all,
Please share the information regarding office boys' leave structure. As we provide 30 days of leave (PL, CL, SL) to all employees, how should the leave structure be designed for office boys?
Kavita Sharma
From India, New Delhi
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Please share the information regarding office boys' leave structure. As we provide 30 days of leave (PL, CL, SL) to all employees, how should the leave structure be designed for office boys?
Kavita Sharma
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Anonymous,
It seems you are unable to digest your criticism for your furious reply. While, as an expert, your reply was quite irrelevant. If you did not want to guide her, you could have better avoided posting your reply. Nobody should be egotistic in nature, regardless of their expertise. But mind it, if you are an expert in any field, you must spread your knowledge so that people may respect you. They should not develop a bad opinion about you upon seeing the egotistic type of reply that you have spread among the whole community.
I don't think Ajitha wanted any undue favor from you. Even your present reply, "Clarification is different, and being ignorant is different," does not sound good. Here, the clarification part is of the community other than the questioner, while the ignorance part, if treated as such, was on the questioner. If you thought Ajitha was ignorant, she just wanted your advice or clarification, maybe like an ignorant person, as you take it. You forget that I have always repeated in my reply that nobody can claim to be an expert or perfect. Every person is ignorant on several counts and needs help or advice from others when in need. That does not mean we should avoid asking others for help and always remain in the dark when trying to find a solution to a problem. Even you and I may be ignorant on several issues. Who knows, even Ajitha can be more knowledgeable in certain HR issues than you and me. We must not try to downsize the knowledge of anyone. What I believe is, we are the supplements of each other.
If you thought she was ignorant, even then you could guide her in a proper manner. You just asked her to brush up her knowledge. The question arises, did you suggest any source from which she could brush up her knowledge? Had you suggested any source along with your harsh reply to the so-called ignorant person, even then the community members could have been satisfied that you had suggested some solution, albeit indirectly. Had you been EVEREADY, as you claimed, you could well have given your knowledgeable and solution-oriented reply instead of your egotistic reply. But nothing of the sort was there in your reply.
Sorry, Mr. Anonymous, I regret to say, you are just calling for more comments on your unsavory response rather than showing any remorse for your wrong reply to the question.
From India, Delhi
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It seems you are unable to digest your criticism for your furious reply. While, as an expert, your reply was quite irrelevant. If you did not want to guide her, you could have better avoided posting your reply. Nobody should be egotistic in nature, regardless of their expertise. But mind it, if you are an expert in any field, you must spread your knowledge so that people may respect you. They should not develop a bad opinion about you upon seeing the egotistic type of reply that you have spread among the whole community.
I don't think Ajitha wanted any undue favor from you. Even your present reply, "Clarification is different, and being ignorant is different," does not sound good. Here, the clarification part is of the community other than the questioner, while the ignorance part, if treated as such, was on the questioner. If you thought Ajitha was ignorant, she just wanted your advice or clarification, maybe like an ignorant person, as you take it. You forget that I have always repeated in my reply that nobody can claim to be an expert or perfect. Every person is ignorant on several counts and needs help or advice from others when in need. That does not mean we should avoid asking others for help and always remain in the dark when trying to find a solution to a problem. Even you and I may be ignorant on several issues. Who knows, even Ajitha can be more knowledgeable in certain HR issues than you and me. We must not try to downsize the knowledge of anyone. What I believe is, we are the supplements of each other.
If you thought she was ignorant, even then you could guide her in a proper manner. You just asked her to brush up her knowledge. The question arises, did you suggest any source from which she could brush up her knowledge? Had you suggested any source along with your harsh reply to the so-called ignorant person, even then the community members could have been satisfied that you had suggested some solution, albeit indirectly. Had you been EVEREADY, as you claimed, you could well have given your knowledgeable and solution-oriented reply instead of your egotistic reply. But nothing of the sort was there in your reply.
Sorry, Mr. Anonymous, I regret to say, you are just calling for more comments on your unsavory response rather than showing any remorse for your wrong reply to the question.
From India, Delhi
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