Dear Sir,
Today, I had a heated argument with my colleague, who is a Civil Engineer. According to this argument, there is no need to have any HR People or HR Department in an organization. The reasons are:
1) For recruiting candidates, there are technical people who will decide and give that responsibility to any consultancy.
2) For payroll, etc., they can give it to any outsourcing service provider, and there is no need to have an HR Department.
3) Managing the manpower is not a significant issue.
I feel that this is a matter of prestige. Requesting you to provide me with the correct answer.
Regards, K. Ravi Kumar
E-mail: kasinaravikumar@gmail.com
Ph: 09989111149
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
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3Today, I had a heated argument with my colleague, who is a Civil Engineer. According to this argument, there is no need to have any HR People or HR Department in an organization. The reasons are:
1) For recruiting candidates, there are technical people who will decide and give that responsibility to any consultancy.
2) For payroll, etc., they can give it to any outsourcing service provider, and there is no need to have an HR Department.
3) Managing the manpower is not a significant issue.
I feel that this is a matter of prestige. Requesting you to provide me with the correct answer.
Regards, K. Ravi Kumar
E-mail: kasinaravikumar@gmail.com
Ph: 09989111149
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
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Ravi,
Don't argue with him. Just ask him who the consultants are. They are also involved in HR work. And who is the payroll guy? He is also involved in HR work. The interesting one is managing people. Ask him to manage one day without a Manager or Leader... they are the HR professionals.
It is not that anyone can do HR work. No, it requires specific qualities and only those possessing them can excel in it. If you ask your Civil Engineer friend to work in HR, he would know nothing and wouldn't be able to handle it. Similarly, if he asks you to do Civil planning, you wouldn't be doing it.
I hope you understand what I mean.
Thanks,
Mirza
From Saudi Arabia, Jiddah
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Don't argue with him. Just ask him who the consultants are. They are also involved in HR work. And who is the payroll guy? He is also involved in HR work. The interesting one is managing people. Ask him to manage one day without a Manager or Leader... they are the HR professionals.
It is not that anyone can do HR work. No, it requires specific qualities and only those possessing them can excel in it. If you ask your Civil Engineer friend to work in HR, he would know nothing and wouldn't be able to handle it. Similarly, if he asks you to do Civil planning, you wouldn't be doing it.
I hope you understand what I mean.
Thanks,
Mirza
From Saudi Arabia, Jiddah
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well I would agree with your Civil Engineer friend to some extent. But there is no need of you to get into heated arguments. Never argue with a fool, who does the same............
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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I feel sad that you are in HR because you do not appreciate the importance of HR and cannot defend the significance of your profession.
HR is always referred to as "Human Resource Management and Development." Anyone can MANAGE "Human Resources," but to DEVELOP them, you need trained and qualified HR professionals.
You need to manage talent and ensure salaries are at par with industry standards. To achieve this, you require HR professionals capable of conducting research to determine industry standards.
Furthermore, retaining employees necessitates innovative retention strategies. As good leaders retire, there is a need to develop future leaders. This requires the expertise of good "Executive Coaches" and effective succession planning, emphasizing the necessity for competent HR professionals.
There are numerous other areas where HR plays a crucial role.
I hope this explanation sheds light on the importance of HR. For more information, you can visit my blog.
Sanjeev
(BLOG: http://sanjeevhimachali.blogspot.com/ and <link outdated-removed>)
From India, Mumbai
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HR is always referred to as "Human Resource Management and Development." Anyone can MANAGE "Human Resources," but to DEVELOP them, you need trained and qualified HR professionals.
You need to manage talent and ensure salaries are at par with industry standards. To achieve this, you require HR professionals capable of conducting research to determine industry standards.
Furthermore, retaining employees necessitates innovative retention strategies. As good leaders retire, there is a need to develop future leaders. This requires the expertise of good "Executive Coaches" and effective succession planning, emphasizing the necessity for competent HR professionals.
There are numerous other areas where HR plays a crucial role.
I hope this explanation sheds light on the importance of HR. For more information, you can visit my blog.
Sanjeev
(BLOG: http://sanjeevhimachali.blogspot.com/ and <link outdated-removed>)
From India, Mumbai
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Sanjeev,
HR is just a job. Your friend thinks HR is not required, and you want to prove to him that HR is very important. Now listen, don't make others believe that HR is really necessary for the organization, and you as HR are very important to the company. HR job is a normal job. Most HR professionals think too highly of themselves, overestimating themselves and having a high attitude.
If HR is that important, let me hear that from a non-HR person. Let me hear from any employee that they like the HR Department and find it really necessary.
It is very easy to praise oneself. But the real credit comes when someone else praises your work.
From India, Pune
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HR is just a job. Your friend thinks HR is not required, and you want to prove to him that HR is very important. Now listen, don't make others believe that HR is really necessary for the organization, and you as HR are very important to the company. HR job is a normal job. Most HR professionals think too highly of themselves, overestimating themselves and having a high attitude.
If HR is that important, let me hear that from a non-HR person. Let me hear from any employee that they like the HR Department and find it really necessary.
It is very easy to praise oneself. But the real credit comes when someone else praises your work.
From India, Pune
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I do not want to get into an argument with a person "who cannot" express his identity. Either he does not have any or he is too shy to express. It's okay with me. I do not have to explain or share achievements or successes of HR with a stupid, egoistic, and arrogant person.
Thinking the way you think, every job is a normal job. What is so special about being an engineer or a doctor? They are just doing a normal job. Apply your mind before you say anything.
From India, Mumbai
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Thinking the way you think, every job is a normal job. What is so special about being an engineer or a doctor? They are just doing a normal job. Apply your mind before you say anything.
From India, Mumbai
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It is common for all to praise themselves that they are the one behind everything.
If you ask a Marketing guy, obviously he will tell you, he is making money for his organization.
If you ask a production man, he may tell you, he is keeping the organization moving.
If you ask a finance person, he will tell you, without finance you cannot do anything.
If you ask an HR Man, he will tell you his importance. It is directly proportional to the headcount. As it goes upwards, you cannot survive without an HR team.
Organizations with very little number of employees can do up to a certain extent without HR, but if they want to grow further, and do not have an HR team...
How would they do manpower planning?
How would they do Job analysis?
Without these two, how would they do recruitment?
And just think about the rest...
Can you think the modern world can work better without modern HR?
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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If you ask a Marketing guy, obviously he will tell you, he is making money for his organization.
If you ask a production man, he may tell you, he is keeping the organization moving.
If you ask a finance person, he will tell you, without finance you cannot do anything.
If you ask an HR Man, he will tell you his importance. It is directly proportional to the headcount. As it goes upwards, you cannot survive without an HR team.
Organizations with very little number of employees can do up to a certain extent without HR, but if they want to grow further, and do not have an HR team...
How would they do manpower planning?
How would they do Job analysis?
Without these two, how would they do recruitment?
And just think about the rest...
Can you think the modern world can work better without modern HR?
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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Hi Friends,
Nice comments from all of you!
Hey Ravi!
Being an HR, you must know the importance of HR in the organization. If an employee presents an argument like this, you should be able to defend it.
"An HR should be given equal importance as a strategic business partner with the CEO because the importance of HR should never be underestimated." This is the latest comment on HR.
I can tell you one thing: an HR can become a technocrat by working hard, but if you want to become an HR, you should possess certain skill sets and leadership qualities that are not so easy for a technocrat.
However, each specialization has its own importance, so I would say an organization is a mixture of all sorts of people. You cannot underestimate an engineer or an HR professional.
This is the attitudinal problem of that person. That's why HR always emphasizes organizational culture and ethics because individuals like that can pollute the organizational culture and peace.
First, please try to learn what an HR is all about. Without that, you can't survive in this field because it is a very important and sensitive function in the organization.
Please ensure that you can convince your employees with reality.
If you want more clarifications, please let me know.
Regards,
Kalyan. 😀
From India, Bangalore
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Nice comments from all of you!
Hey Ravi!
Being an HR, you must know the importance of HR in the organization. If an employee presents an argument like this, you should be able to defend it.
"An HR should be given equal importance as a strategic business partner with the CEO because the importance of HR should never be underestimated." This is the latest comment on HR.
I can tell you one thing: an HR can become a technocrat by working hard, but if you want to become an HR, you should possess certain skill sets and leadership qualities that are not so easy for a technocrat.
However, each specialization has its own importance, so I would say an organization is a mixture of all sorts of people. You cannot underestimate an engineer or an HR professional.
This is the attitudinal problem of that person. That's why HR always emphasizes organizational culture and ethics because individuals like that can pollute the organizational culture and peace.
First, please try to learn what an HR is all about. Without that, you can't survive in this field because it is a very important and sensitive function in the organization.
Please ensure that you can convince your employees with reality.
If you want more clarifications, please let me know.
Regards,
Kalyan. 😀
From India, Bangalore
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You cannot ask a carpenter to do the job of a doctor. Is it not correct? Today's turmoil in society is because of such thinking; people who believe a carpenter can also perform the duties of a doctor. They must correct and update their thinking patterns and structure. Otherwise, these individuals will continue to create disturbances and chaos in society, acting as stumbling blocks to India's growth. If anyone is capable of performing any job, then specializations are not necessary. All colleges and professional institutions should be closed down. Why invest so much time, money, and energy in learning new subjects or specializations?
Fight with logic and reality. Combat a small Diwali bomb with an atom bomb. Do not remain silent. Do not flee. I have also encountered individuals with such erroneous beliefs. I have observed people at the Director level who lack specialization in HR but have secured their positions due to networking and connections with politicians. Exceptions exist, but exceptions do not validate the rule. Let the HR community maintain its identity. We have to pay the price for it. However, HR professionals should remain dedicated to their profession.
Regards,
Yours Truly,
Satish Kumar Dhanwal
Head (HR)
NTPC Foundation
Noida
From India, Delhi
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Fight with logic and reality. Combat a small Diwali bomb with an atom bomb. Do not remain silent. Do not flee. I have also encountered individuals with such erroneous beliefs. I have observed people at the Director level who lack specialization in HR but have secured their positions due to networking and connections with politicians. Exceptions exist, but exceptions do not validate the rule. Let the HR community maintain its identity. We have to pay the price for it. However, HR professionals should remain dedicated to their profession.
Regards,
Yours Truly,
Satish Kumar Dhanwal
Head (HR)
NTPC Foundation
Noida
From India, Delhi
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Dear Sir (VARANASI),
Thank you very much for your information. Actually, I'm working as a Commercial Assistant. I've completed my PGD in HRM through Andhra University (Distance Mode). Currently, I am trying to learn the complete subject both theoretically and practically. Unfortunately, nobody is helping me in this regard.
Through CiteHR, I have been able to learn some things about HRM. When it comes to defense, I lack a strong grasp of the subject, which is why I tend to remain silent.
It is my sincere request that you provide me with your contact details, such as your phone number and email, so that I can meet you in person. I hope that you will do the needful.
Regards,
K. Ravi Kumar
Email: kasinaravikumar@gmail.com
Phone: 09989111149
From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you very much for your information. Actually, I'm working as a Commercial Assistant. I've completed my PGD in HRM through Andhra University (Distance Mode). Currently, I am trying to learn the complete subject both theoretically and practically. Unfortunately, nobody is helping me in this regard.
Through CiteHR, I have been able to learn some things about HRM. When it comes to defense, I lack a strong grasp of the subject, which is why I tend to remain silent.
It is my sincere request that you provide me with your contact details, such as your phone number and email, so that I can meet you in person. I hope that you will do the needful.
Regards,
K. Ravi Kumar
Email: kasinaravikumar@gmail.com
Phone: 09989111149
From India, Hyderabad
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I read some of your postings on CiteHR. You appear to be a FRUSTRATED person. Do share where you are working (Company Name), your brief profile, and your total experience. I might be able to help you in many ways. Before replying to my comments, get to know about me or read about me.
Regards, Sanjeev
From India, Mumbai
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Regards, Sanjeev
From India, Mumbai
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While in an avoidable situation with a Civil Engineer, you are looking at the insecurity of others who handle day-to-day activities as HR coordinates and controls the environment (which happens to be his day-to-day work).
It may be a million-dollar question whether the response of the Civil Engineer (by extension, some other employees - not all) came from a bit of envy. It is most unlikely that in such a changing business environment, the civil engineer has any perception of the responsibilities of HR, even as we as HR personnel are also trying to grapple with the changing HR atmosphere and skill sets required to handle this evolving environment.
Accordingly, it shall be a waste of time for us to be so concerned about taking seriously an out-of-turn outburst of the Civil Engineer. In another discussion topic (What are the qualifications of the HR Professional), I had mentioned that recruitments need to involve technical employees. Some eyebrows were raised. Even CiteHR Shaitan has some useful contributions therein. As HR personnel, we understand the value of teamwork more than anyone else. We should implement the same ourselves. Let not one outburst divide your team to the extent that we start thinking in terms of 'We and They'. We are nothing if we are not part of the team. Just like all HR personnel cannot form a team in a business unit, every team needs HR personnel as it does civil engineers and others.
Where is the time to get prestige in this? You are too busy for this worthless activity—move on, man. If you can do that, you are the winner.
Incidentally, have you analyzed why the Civil Engineer behaved in this obnoxious manner? Find that reason and address it; forget about prestige. If you can do that, you are in a win-win situation.
In any situation of 'We and They', someone will always be a loser, and if that happens to be part of your team, HR fraternity should be proud to be seen as a positive group of people who are dedicated and perform at any cost. Even this shall be a win-win situation.
Now, let us look at this from the point of view of the Civil Engineer. Presumably, either he was not involved in the recruitment process or he did not receive what he needed to achieve his objectives.
We are all aware that today, businesses are run on the principle of "Client is the King." Towards this end, we have also learned that employees are the internal clients; to serve them, an organization keeps an HR/Personnel/Admin team to provide services. HR/Personnel/Admin are service providers to company employees.
We need to understand this and perform accordingly.
Age Barho, chhoti chhoti batoon mein taluqat kharab nahin karte.
Pradeep Bajaj
From India, Delhi
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It may be a million-dollar question whether the response of the Civil Engineer (by extension, some other employees - not all) came from a bit of envy. It is most unlikely that in such a changing business environment, the civil engineer has any perception of the responsibilities of HR, even as we as HR personnel are also trying to grapple with the changing HR atmosphere and skill sets required to handle this evolving environment.
Accordingly, it shall be a waste of time for us to be so concerned about taking seriously an out-of-turn outburst of the Civil Engineer. In another discussion topic (What are the qualifications of the HR Professional), I had mentioned that recruitments need to involve technical employees. Some eyebrows were raised. Even CiteHR Shaitan has some useful contributions therein. As HR personnel, we understand the value of teamwork more than anyone else. We should implement the same ourselves. Let not one outburst divide your team to the extent that we start thinking in terms of 'We and They'. We are nothing if we are not part of the team. Just like all HR personnel cannot form a team in a business unit, every team needs HR personnel as it does civil engineers and others.
Where is the time to get prestige in this? You are too busy for this worthless activity—move on, man. If you can do that, you are the winner.
Incidentally, have you analyzed why the Civil Engineer behaved in this obnoxious manner? Find that reason and address it; forget about prestige. If you can do that, you are in a win-win situation.
In any situation of 'We and They', someone will always be a loser, and if that happens to be part of your team, HR fraternity should be proud to be seen as a positive group of people who are dedicated and perform at any cost. Even this shall be a win-win situation.
Now, let us look at this from the point of view of the Civil Engineer. Presumably, either he was not involved in the recruitment process or he did not receive what he needed to achieve his objectives.
We are all aware that today, businesses are run on the principle of "Client is the King." Towards this end, we have also learned that employees are the internal clients; to serve them, an organization keeps an HR/Personnel/Admin team to provide services. HR/Personnel/Admin are service providers to company employees.
We need to understand this and perform accordingly.
Age Barho, chhoti chhoti batoon mein taluqat kharab nahin karte.
Pradeep Bajaj
From India, Delhi
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Well, tell your civil engineer friend that the human resources are provided by the HR department of any company, and it may require them to be away from the workplace for a week. Ask your friend to work with the machinery and materials without people. Let's see if he can do it. Also, inform him that if the HR department does not provide the right people at the right time and place, nothing much can be accomplished.
As for the individual who believes that HR professionals have a high opinion of themselves and are generally disliked, I would like to clarify that our aim is not to seek approval but to fulfill our responsibilities in the most effective manner, ensuring the organization's profitability and success. Additionally, I want to remind you, sir, to take pride in being part of the HR profession, especially as the recent recession has highlighted the significance of HR and its functions. The future, indeed, belongs to HR professionals. Wishing you all the best, sir.
From India, Bangalore
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As for the individual who believes that HR professionals have a high opinion of themselves and are generally disliked, I would like to clarify that our aim is not to seek approval but to fulfill our responsibilities in the most effective manner, ensuring the organization's profitability and success. Additionally, I want to remind you, sir, to take pride in being part of the HR profession, especially as the recent recession has highlighted the significance of HR and its functions. The future, indeed, belongs to HR professionals. Wishing you all the best, sir.
From India, Bangalore
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Ha ha ha... whatever he has said applies to him as well. We can also outsource civil engineering; that's also not a big issue. We can get civil work done by a civil contractor who will work on a contract basis and provide us with the required construction.
A simple example: if he needs to expand his factory or production area, the liaison work has to be done by the HR officer.
From India
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A simple example: if he needs to expand his factory or production area, the liaison work has to be done by the HR officer.
From India
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