Hi,
I am currently serving my notice period in a tier 1 company. My company has a 60-day notice period. My HR informed me that if I take leaves during the notice period, it will either be considered as Loss Of Pay (in which case my last working day will not be extended) or if I am paid for the leaves, my last working day will be extended. I had to unfortunately take 4 days of leave during my notice period. The HR now says that these 4 days will be on 'Loss of Pay' and also my notice period will be extended because of my leaves. According to her latest statement, I would have to work for 8 days without pay. Can someone let me know if this is how leaves during the notice period should be handled? Any help on this will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
From India, Mumbai
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I am currently serving my notice period in a tier 1 company. My company has a 60-day notice period. My HR informed me that if I take leaves during the notice period, it will either be considered as Loss Of Pay (in which case my last working day will not be extended) or if I am paid for the leaves, my last working day will be extended. I had to unfortunately take 4 days of leave during my notice period. The HR now says that these 4 days will be on 'Loss of Pay' and also my notice period will be extended because of my leaves. According to her latest statement, I would have to work for 8 days without pay. Can someone let me know if this is how leaves during the notice period should be handled? Any help on this will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
From India, Mumbai
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Taking leave during the notice period is treated as LOP in almost all organizations. However, extending a person's last working day by the number of days the person was on leave during the notice period is definitely not the right thing to do.
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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A notice period of 60 days means that you need to provide the company a 60-day period to replace your role with a new hire or internal movement. Once the new hire joins, you would need to hand over all the responsibilities to him and exit. If there is a delay in replacing your position, the HR can request you to extend your last working day so that you could transfer your responsibilities, but accepting it or not is your choice.
Since you have taken 4 days leave, it would be counted as an LOP only, and the HR cannot ask you to extend it for another 4 days. If they do so, then they will need to pay you for your 4-day extension. You can discuss this with your Senior HR, and they would be able to clarify this best.
Regards,
Lakshmi
From India, Bangalore
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2Since you have taken 4 days leave, it would be counted as an LOP only, and the HR cannot ask you to extend it for another 4 days. If they do so, then they will need to pay you for your 4-day extension. You can discuss this with your Senior HR, and they would be able to clarify this best.
Regards,
Lakshmi
From India, Bangalore
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No one can extend the 'Notice period' of an employee unless specified in writing or given as a clause in the Appointment letter. If you have 'EL Balance' (Earned leave) to your credit, you can have that adjusted against your notice period as well. Talk to your management or CEO and update him as the Labour court means the bells start ringing, and nowadays Labour laws are more employee-friendly. You can take the management or the HR to the Labour Court if you wish to. The only downside would be that they may spoil your background verification process when your next employer might approach them. But that's not the way to get exploited, and you must update your next employer about this incident as well. Good luck! No one would like to have Government officials at their gate. As one authority informs other agencies when a bribe is paid to an official for keeping quiet, it becomes a headache, and no HR would like to give company to pot-bellied Government Agencies every month.
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Hi,
Regarding your query, you have to settle such matters amicably by discussing with your HR head. Anyway, since you are leaving the company, it is better to exit with good remarks so that it is beneficial for your future employment. Otherwise, if you show any resistance, there is a chance that your final settlement and benefits may be delayed.
In my opinion, you can take your casual/sick leave except earned leave with your HOD's recommendation.
Thanks & Regards,
SR VADLAMANI
From India, Hyderabad
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Regarding your query, you have to settle such matters amicably by discussing with your HR head. Anyway, since you are leaving the company, it is better to exit with good remarks so that it is beneficial for your future employment. Otherwise, if you show any resistance, there is a chance that your final settlement and benefits may be delayed.
In my opinion, you can take your casual/sick leave except earned leave with your HOD's recommendation.
Thanks & Regards,
SR VADLAMANI
From India, Hyderabad
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As someone said in this forum, either they have to treat a four-day period as LOP or adjust it against any EL to your credit. Asking the employee to work four more days in lieu of four days LOP leave and that too without pay for the extended four days is due to one of the two reasons: 1. immaturity on the part of the HR Dept. 2. Arm-twisting an employee who has already set one foot out with the possibility of spoiling his antecedents in past employment.
Treating a four-day loss of pay is okay or paying for the extended notice period is also acceptable; but not paying for the four-day extended period after treating the four days leave as LOP is cynical, and a lot can be said about the attitude of the Company or its HR Dept. One more thing people should try to put heart over their mind and understand the employee's predicament.
Another thing is if the employee is a habitual twister of the rules and teases the higher-ups by citing rules, etc., the HR people may try to tease the concerned person at a crucial juncture.
Dr. Vasudeva Reddy Ravula
From India, Hyderabad
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Treating a four-day loss of pay is okay or paying for the extended notice period is also acceptable; but not paying for the four-day extended period after treating the four days leave as LOP is cynical, and a lot can be said about the attitude of the Company or its HR Dept. One more thing people should try to put heart over their mind and understand the employee's predicament.
Another thing is if the employee is a habitual twister of the rules and teases the higher-ups by citing rules, etc., the HR people may try to tease the concerned person at a crucial juncture.
Dr. Vasudeva Reddy Ravula
From India, Hyderabad
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I agree with the opinion of Dr. Vasudeva Reddy Ravula, given above, in totality. I would like to add further:
The only reason and logic given at times and in different organizations for treating leave during the notice period is that the data relating to leave balances at the credit of the employee had already been sent to Finance & Accounts for preparing his final settlement amount. As such, since the leave balances are being sent (transferred) for 'encashment', technically the employee's leave account/balance is treated as 'Nil'. Taking leave does not entail deferment of the relieving date except in certain exigencies.
Hope the above explanation suffices in clarifying the doubts.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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The only reason and logic given at times and in different organizations for treating leave during the notice period is that the data relating to leave balances at the credit of the employee had already been sent to Finance & Accounts for preparing his final settlement amount. As such, since the leave balances are being sent (transferred) for 'encashment', technically the employee's leave account/balance is treated as 'Nil'. Taking leave does not entail deferment of the relieving date except in certain exigencies.
Hope the above explanation suffices in clarifying the doubts.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Hi,
As someone managing the Comp N Ben department and the generalist activities in my organization, I ensure that any employee leaving us does so without much discomfort or hard feelings. In your case, all I can say is that this is a gross misjudgment on the part of your vertical HR. He/she is probably not too clear on the exit procedures and policies. I suggest skipping a level and talking to the Senior HR representative or your vertical HR SPOC, and I'm sure you'll receive a fair deal.
Asheesh.
From India, Bhopal
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As someone managing the Comp N Ben department and the generalist activities in my organization, I ensure that any employee leaving us does so without much discomfort or hard feelings. In your case, all I can say is that this is a gross misjudgment on the part of your vertical HR. He/she is probably not too clear on the exit procedures and policies. I suggest skipping a level and talking to the Senior HR representative or your vertical HR SPOC, and I'm sure you'll receive a fair deal.
Asheesh.
From India, Bhopal
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dear if you have leave balance of EL you can take leave with your head permission. regards v.srinivasa rao
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Hi,
Your HR is not correct in their approach. During the notice period, a person is required to work for the specified period, which in your case is 60 days. As you have taken 4 days of leave, there is a shortfall in the notice period. This would be considered as loss of pay, and you will need to work for an additional 4 days to make up for the shortfall.
I am sharing my view after discussing this matter with my seniors.
From India, Rajpura
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Your HR is not correct in their approach. During the notice period, a person is required to work for the specified period, which in your case is 60 days. As you have taken 4 days of leave, there is a shortfall in the notice period. This would be considered as loss of pay, and you will need to work for an additional 4 days to make up for the shortfall.
I am sharing my view after discussing this matter with my seniors.
From India, Rajpura
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Hi,
I agree with the discussion that the 4 days' leave availed could either be treated as LOP or the notice period can be extended for 4 days (with payment). This is the procedure that we follow for permanent employees in my company. However, the policy for contract employees is that no leave is allowed during the notice period. They only have CL in their account as they are contract employees.
I am not very sure if this is correct, and I would appreciate feedback on the same.
Kind regards, Reshmi Pillai
From India, Mumbai
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I agree with the discussion that the 4 days' leave availed could either be treated as LOP or the notice period can be extended for 4 days (with payment). This is the procedure that we follow for permanent employees in my company. However, the policy for contract employees is that no leave is allowed during the notice period. They only have CL in their account as they are contract employees.
I am not very sure if this is correct, and I would appreciate feedback on the same.
Kind regards, Reshmi Pillai
From India, Mumbai
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I AGREE WITH COMMENTS AS GIVEN BY EXPERTS, LEAVE SHOULD BE ADJUST WITH EL, INSTEAD OF EXTENSION OF NOTICE PERIOD, ITS BETTER THAT YOU GO TO LABOUR INSPECTOR OF UR AREA. Manoj Pandya HR
From India, Udaipur
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From India, Udaipur
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What state are you in? What kind of leave are you requesting? Are you exempt or non-exempt?
From United States, Carlstadt
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From United States, Carlstadt
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Hi all,
Thank you very much for your replies. They are very encouraging. I have posted a question to my HR on why my notice period has to be extended after considering it as LOP. I hope I get a favorable response. For the leave part, my manager has approved my leaves. However, the HR says it is unauthorized. I have earned leaves (in my company, they are called vacation leaves, and they are not encashable). The separation policy does not specify how the leaves during the notice period will be calculated.
I am only worried about my background check. Based on my interactions with the HR, I don't believe she will provide a positive response to the background checks if I pursue this further.
Thanks,
VJ
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you very much for your replies. They are very encouraging. I have posted a question to my HR on why my notice period has to be extended after considering it as LOP. I hope I get a favorable response. For the leave part, my manager has approved my leaves. However, the HR says it is unauthorized. I have earned leaves (in my company, they are called vacation leaves, and they are not encashable). The separation policy does not specify how the leaves during the notice period will be calculated.
I am only worried about my background check. Based on my interactions with the HR, I don't believe she will provide a positive response to the background checks if I pursue this further.
Thanks,
VJ
From India, Mumbai
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Is your employer an at-will employer? There is no labor code, federal or state, that requires an exiting employee to provide a 60-day notice. A notice of intent to quit is a courtesy, not a law.
If you are an exempt employee, your employer cannot break up your workweek. You are entitled to your weekly wages unless this is an FMLA-related leave.
Nowhere in the U.S. are employees allowed to work without pay, unless this was an unpaid intern position.
Tell your HR representative to get another job because clearly, he or she is resting on a company employee handbook, and we all know most policies are not worth the paper they are written on.
Lastly, if your past employer provides a negative reference of employment and you can prove this negative reference was the cause of you not securing employment, they can be charged with defamation of character, slander, etc.
I hope you are not in California; based on the information you provided, the EEOC, DFEH, U.S. Department of Labor – Wage and Hour Division, etc., would have a field day with this.
Good Luck.
From United States, Carlstadt
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If you are an exempt employee, your employer cannot break up your workweek. You are entitled to your weekly wages unless this is an FMLA-related leave.
Nowhere in the U.S. are employees allowed to work without pay, unless this was an unpaid intern position.
Tell your HR representative to get another job because clearly, he or she is resting on a company employee handbook, and we all know most policies are not worth the paper they are written on.
Lastly, if your past employer provides a negative reference of employment and you can prove this negative reference was the cause of you not securing employment, they can be charged with defamation of character, slander, etc.
I hope you are not in California; based on the information you provided, the EEOC, DFEH, U.S. Department of Labor – Wage and Hour Division, etc., would have a field day with this.
Good Luck.
From United States, Carlstadt
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Dear Roberts,
I thank you for your inputs on the matter (with reference to US Federal and State laws), and I am sure it will help the members broaden their knowledge and skills in HRM. I look forward to many more contributions from you.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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I thank you for your inputs on the matter (with reference to US Federal and State laws), and I am sure it will help the members broaden their knowledge and skills in HRM. I look forward to many more contributions from you.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Thank you, Dr. Vasudeva Reddy. My leave was approved by my manager, and I see that my EL has been reduced by the number of days I was on leave. In my organization, the executive HRs are usually fresh graduates or people with fewer years of experience. They don't have much empathy.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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If you are young and career-oriented, don't pick a fight with the HR department. Instead, settle matters amicably by putting your request in writing, showing that you are willing to comply.
Secondly, if you are covered under labor laws, after leaving and verifying credentials with the new employer, issue them a notice regarding any unfair practices.
If you are not protected by labor laws, then the civil court can determine the compensation you are entitled to for any losses suffered due to a breach of contract.
In all these situations, it is essential to carefully weigh the pros and cons as burning bridges is not advisable.
May you succeed in achieving your goals and endeavors.
From India, New Delhi
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Secondly, if you are covered under labor laws, after leaving and verifying credentials with the new employer, issue them a notice regarding any unfair practices.
If you are not protected by labor laws, then the civil court can determine the compensation you are entitled to for any losses suffered due to a breach of contract.
In all these situations, it is essential to carefully weigh the pros and cons as burning bridges is not advisable.
May you succeed in achieving your goals and endeavors.
From India, New Delhi
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Further to the suggestions posted by the HR professionals, I opine that 60 days is a good time frame, and any exigencies that may arise, hence not allowing to avail leave, is inhuman. In case such a clause exists in the company policy or is part of the appointment letter, then there is a need to work for 60 days by extending the relieving date. This normally won't happen as the outgoing employee might have committed to a joining date with the new organization. There is a chance they may lose the opportunity or become unemployed if they don't join on the committed date, thus losing their lien on their offer letter.
The present company should also consider humanitarian grounds and in extraordinary situations, they can make it Loss of Pay (LOP) and relieve the employee on the agreed last working day.
The Role of HR in Employee Separation
In this situation, the HR role is critical as they are the ones to convince the management and provide assistance. Outgoing employees are the brand ambassadors of the company. Nowadays, most companies are actively working to attract ex-employees to rejoin the organization. In this context, it is better not to create any issues and ensure a smooth separation.
Advice to Outgoing Employees
My suggestion to the outgoing employee is not to pursue legal action or complain to labor department authorities as it is a waste of time. Additionally, it may be difficult to find opportunities as progressive employers may view you as a troublemaker. Ultimately, this could harm your career.
As suggested by HR experts, it is better to seek a win-win situation and depart.
From India, Hyderabad
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The present company should also consider humanitarian grounds and in extraordinary situations, they can make it Loss of Pay (LOP) and relieve the employee on the agreed last working day.
The Role of HR in Employee Separation
In this situation, the HR role is critical as they are the ones to convince the management and provide assistance. Outgoing employees are the brand ambassadors of the company. Nowadays, most companies are actively working to attract ex-employees to rejoin the organization. In this context, it is better not to create any issues and ensure a smooth separation.
Advice to Outgoing Employees
My suggestion to the outgoing employee is not to pursue legal action or complain to labor department authorities as it is a waste of time. Additionally, it may be difficult to find opportunities as progressive employers may view you as a troublemaker. Ultimately, this could harm your career.
As suggested by HR experts, it is better to seek a win-win situation and depart.
From India, Hyderabad
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