Dinesh Divekar
Business Mentor, Consultant And Trainer
Labour Law & Hr Consultant
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Gopinath Varahamurthi
Mindhour Partner, Ass.professor/adm. Officer,
Lavika Yadav
Soical Compliance Auditing
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Asst.manager Hr
Hr Officer
B Ravichandiran
Manager Hr
Arunachala Nataraj
Senior Manager -hr
Hcms Implementation Mgr
Somnath Prasad
Asst. Manager-hr, Paam Eatables Limited
Branch Manager
+3 Others

Thread Started by #Aakansha_HRD

Recently we made the mistake of hiring a culture misfit in our company. The employee joined all of 10 days ago. Since we certain behavioural issues have already been reported/observed, we have refrained from handing an appointment letter to him.
Objectionable behavior: Gossiping, asking about other employee's salary details, instigating others to leave organization because he thinks they are under paid.
Unprofessional conduct:we have received 7 to 8 complaints about this guy in last 10 days. Also, my team members have witnessed his rude & arrogant behaviour. Additionally his previous company has terminated him & his relieving documents are not genuine. (We understand this is a big slip on our document verification part- we accept this and feel guilty of the same. Its also a big learning for us)
When we tried to counsel him, he said the company can ask him to leave. So when we decided to do so, his father who is lawyer, is calling the HOD of his department and threatening to sue the company.
What should be done in such a situation to protect the company from a candidate who we don't think is a good fit for the organization? How should we handle the employee's father who is threatening us?
21st January 2018 From India, Nagpur
First of all document his misbehaviour-date wise, incident wise with witnesses.
Call him counsel him and warn him in writing.
Take acknowledgement from employee of the counselling and warnings.
If you have proof of fake documents just ask him to quit.
Show cause notice can be issued for fake documents and then terminate him without adverse remarks.(since your company feels his legal talents can create problems.
Call his bluff and terminate him by following due process
His lawyer father cannot do much if your due process meets the precepts of Natural justice.
Dont get bogged down and suffer his irrational and objectionable behaviour.
Also remember this father is not the only lawyer in the country.
Process of selection and verification needs review.
21st January 2018 From India, Pune
Dear Aakansha,
First and foremost, you deserve kudos for coming up with a actual workplace problem. Your honest admission of anomalous selection brings out humbleness in you. Rather than showing zeal to educate others by downloading some article and uploading it on this forum, discussion on these practical workplace problems maintain the distinctive spirit of this forum.
Going by the description of the candidate that you have selected, it can be deduced that the selected person is as good as hot potato. Sooner you drop it the better. Nevertheless, he is unsufferable too. Coupled with his unsufferableness is presumptuousness or even cantankerousness of his father. He has thrown his weight around by calling HOD of his son and passed innuendos of his profession to intimidate HOD!
Anyway, Mr Nathrao has given good suggestions. Let me add 1-2 more points. When the complaints are received from the persons working in other department(s), tell them to give the written complaints and too with material evidence , if any.
Secondly, you order domestic enquiry on falsification of the records of employment. It should not be that difficult for you to terminate him on this count.
Learning for HR Professionals: - The incident is a learning for all the HR professionals. Admittedly, this is a recruitment disaster. Therefore, question arises as to what HR professional need to do to avoid selection of this type of candidate. Which questions in the job interview could have uncovered quirkiness of the candidate? Do we give emphasis on the technical questions in the job interview with few questions or no questions on the behaviour? Which recruitment tests can discover behaviour of the job candidate that might not be amenable to the culture of the company?
Suppose for a while, HR professional would have discovered negative behavioural traits of the candidate, but he was cleared in technical round(s). In that case how many HR professionals are empowered to decline the candidature of the candidate? How many HRs get cowed down when the candidate gets cleared by the "top boss" or "semi-top boss"?
Dinesh Divekar
21st January 2018 From India, Bangalore
Dear Aakansha,
As is the father so is the son. Mr.Nathrao has clearly stated what should be done in this matter immediately while Mr.Dinesh as to what to be done in such matter in future. Follow their advice.
21st January 2018 From India, Salem
While you may have made a mistake during recruitment there is a way out here.
It is not possible to know that documents are fake until they are verified. Most companies do verification only after the candidate joins as they donít want the previous company to know the candidates is looking for a job
So it is not a real problem that you have now discovered the documents were fake. Suspend him immediately on ground of submitting fake documents. Conduct domestic enquiry and terminate him. Donít bother with behaviour grounds. Just this particular items stands indefensible
His lawyer father may send a legal notice or even file a legal suite. That you need to get a lawyer to fight. Aim to avoid a court hearing by giving a good and detailed reply. So also your procedure must be documented, fair and giving a chance to the employee to defend himself during the domenstic enquiry. If it goes to court, then let your lawyer defend it. There is no option. You canít keep such a person in the company anyway
22nd January 2018 From India, Mumbai
An employer must always show natural justice, kindness and keep welfare in mind while dealing with employees.A happy employee is a productive employee.
That is the basic way to get more productivity from employees.
But when employee is showing his true nature by trying to destroy the company itself, there should be no hesitation in showing him the exit door post haste.
In the process of showing exit door ensure natural justice is upheld.
Here employee has submitted fake documents, and that itself is more than adequate to dismiss him.take this offence into a/c, hold enquiry as required in proper fashion and terminate.
His father ,may be a lawyer but that should not stop you from doing the right thing the right way by following procedure at quick speed before the virus of indiscipline sets in.
Mistakes of recruitment do happen, just analyse and set it right for next hire.
If right lessons are learnt this experience will be invaluable in setting up and tightening recruitment norms.
what to do with this individual employee is a matter of disciplinary actions.
What is more important tis to analyse how the recruitment took place?
Did the company have check lists of what to check before and during the process of interview?
Were the educational documents examined carefully?
What was the nature of fraudulent documents submitted by employee?
Frame some questions for every potential employee and see whether answers are indicative of fitment into company values.
Several deep questions need to be asked so that recruitment mistakes are minimised.
There is always a chance that selected candidate may not be a good fit, inspite of all checks,but increasing the stringency of checks is good so as to reduce chances of errors.
At the end of it all-act decisively now in accordance with principles of natural justice and learn right lessons.
22nd January 2018 From India, Pune
Dear Aakansha,
In the matter already our collegues have given their input. Some times our mistake turned boon in disguise.
You withdraw the gate pass and restrict the entry of the person as well as the attendance. The case is simple as you have not issued the appointment letter yet, therefore the person can not claim/treat him as your employee. The candidate and his father can not do anything as have no instrument to call as employee of your organisation. Do not issue any official correspondence in name of the candidate, if anything has to communicate, do the verbal communication till the matter is settled. At this juncture any communication to the workmen or call for explanation would damage the case.
You and your team need to verify all your documents and act in sence in order to stop futher commit of another mistake. Do not proreactive wait and see the action by the person to decide your next course of action. You are in safer zone be calm and act as per the law.
22nd January 2018 From India, Mumbai
Iam seeing lot of inputs from our seniors.
But the organisation also commits the mistake by allowing a person to join duty without issuing offer letter. I don't see what ethics is this.
Having said that you can straight away tell him not to come next day onwards and also advise your security to deny his entry.
Had you issued the offer before allowing him to join the company then you need to follow documentary procedures.
You should ensure for any one before joining they are issued with offer letters with terms and condition which will provide you the necessary powers in your hand to terminate such profiles.
22nd January 2018 From India, Madras
Dear Akansha,
You should have provided details like this so called misfit is a workman or non -workman ,his designation/ nature of duties , the nature of your business and whether you are covered under Factories Act or Shops Act to enable proper advice.
As rightly observed by Prabhat and Ravishankar that you have not yet issued him Appt letter which is a plus point in the legal battle if it takes place. If you have also not issued Offer letter , this can be advantageous in denying employer- employee relationship.
From the nature of the misbehaviors on his part , the person appears to be goon type union leader and he must have done similar things in his past employments. Find out if possible, and document it.
As Natharao has rightly observed, for the sake of future legal battle, document all the incidents chronologically with witnesses signatur etc . Involve good labour lawyer, right from this stage to create legal evidence.
This notwithstanding, if it is a fact that you have not issued any Appt/Offer letter , just stop him to attend office immediately by verbal communication.
Don't get cowed down by his lawyer father's posture of threathing you, as he will have weak defence for his deviant son.
Tell him verbally upfront that the issue ,if any, is between the company and his son and he has no business to poke his nose.
Don't get into any written communication with him regarding his separation .At this stage , I am not in favour of long winding process of show cause notice, holding of domestic enquiry etc but after his verbal separation, producing our evidence before the court when things come to that pass.
But, as I said, please have good labour lawyer to advise you at every stage of the matter as he comes with the grips of ground realities.
We are sharing our views based on the particulars provided by the poster it may be presumptuous..But go by the advice ofthe local lawyer.
Vinayak Nagarkar
23rd January 2018 From India, Mumbai
Dear Ravichandiran ji,
Thanks for your inputs.We have given offer letter to that guy.FYI.
We have immediately initiated action as suggested by Nathrao sir & Dinesh sir.Also corrective & preventive measures has been taken to avoid recurrence of such instances.He has signed & accepted the code of conduct ,he has attended induction training , where we have communicated(written & verbal) him that any falsification of documents will lead to strict disciplinary action that may even results into termination of services.We don't issue appointment letter till all relevant documents is submitted by the candidate & as that guys has not submitted all papers the appointment letter was not issued. Our legal cell has also shared similar views as the senior members of this forum has shared with us.Their advice, helped in getting an insigh into what are the common practice in other industries.
23rd January 2018 From India, Nagpur
Dear Friends,
It seems, The interview was carried out without due diligence, still the content of selecting the person is not clearly fit to the recruitment process, anyhow happened with bad taste that the institution understand the person into the organisation neither fit nor good for the post of selection.
1) Enquiring about salary and other things is not a crime, each other employee interacted/communication with others by the employee must have attracted in sense. In fact, the employees expressed their desires and displeasure to the newer one and got suggestion, a surprise and real issues erupted.
2) The new employee got in touch with HOD with notorious intention and it appears so, clearly speak he got the complete history of the organisation in the process, where the weak shell exposed.
3) Now, the question is investigations reveal the employee was not a prominent one with the previous employer.
4) Please call on the employee directly into the cabin and get an interview done for the suitable post with a set of questionaire, where in we ask three questions about to the employee :
First SET of Questions
A) Whey he left/resigned the previous job?
B) The reasons for leaving the previous job?
C) What are the difficulties he faced in the previous job personally and with the organisation goals?
Second Set of Questions :
D) What is the future plan in the new organisation?
E) What is his special skills that the new organisation can use for the benefit and for the development?
F) What are his views in coming into the new organisation?
Third Set of questions :
G) When some one gossiping in the working place what would the employee do to get into the person?
H) When some one given false certificates about relief from previous employment what would be the action to be initiated?
I) Is it right some one outside the organisation can interfere in the working place?
These are difficult questions, yet, form the employee and trap him to get the relief.
Organisation is the most important over the self ...
23rd January 2018 From India, Arcot
Does your offer have the terms and conditions that if any of the declarations made by the applicant is false or found to be incorrect then the services can be terminated immediately without any other reason? Then issue the offer letter and and take the acknowledgement of the candidate on the copy that he has agreed to all the terms and conditions of the offer. Then after finding out his previous employers report that he has produced fake ones or if the report is not satisfactory, simply terminate him by quoting the clause of the offer of appointment. Let him go to legal procedure.
24th January 2018 From India, Mysore
Fire immediately if his previous company relieving documents are not genuine.
24th January 2018 From India, Delhi
if the candidate is not appointed,then question of his termination does not arise at all.As regards to offer letter, if it has been accepted by candidate,then also his acceptance can be terminated if the documents are found fake. As regards to behavior of candidates, he can be immediately terminated of grounds of false behavior and as regards to legal suit etc, create enough witness and evidences and be prepared to fight back.Strict hiring process with strong clauses is what is needed to avoid future failures.
Thanks to all senior members to have special attention on this kind of issues and their valuable advice
25th January 2018 From India, Vadodara
Dear Ms. Aakansha,
You must have a clause in your offer letter regarding non-submission of relevant documents at the time of joining would prevent one to join the company.
It is around 15 days; you may issue a letter with three days time limit citing non-submission would lead to termination of employment.
Apart from this you must mention following things in your letter:
ē Co. Permit him to join on his verbal assurance to submit documents with 5 days at
the time of joining.
ē Repeated verbal reminder regarding submission of documents.
ē As per company policy, you canít issue appointment letter before submitting
required documents.
Then after three days, you may terminate his employment for non-submission of documents.
As per Schedule-I of Model standing order section 2 (b) his service is less than 3 months in such case you are not liable to pay any compensation except salary till date.
As per ID act, he has not completed 240 days service so his service is less than 1 year. This will limit his litigation chances.
If employee refuse to accept letter than you should send it (include this as well in letter at his residential address through register post and past the same on co. notice board.
25th January 2018 From India, Varanasi
Just throw him out. His lawyer father is only threatening and cannot do much.
26th January 2018 From India, Delhi
Dear Ms. Akasha,
Under Below circumstances employment can be terminated?
There can be many grounds and reasons which can result in the termination of an employee which are as follows:
1. Inefficiency of an employee- If the employer finds that the employee is not efficient enough and is not adding to the growth and productivity of the business due to its poor and low performance, then it is a strong reason for the termination. Though generally this clause is not inserted in the contracts, but in recent times there is clause in the contract relating to achieving a specific target in a certain time period, which if not achieved can lead to termination.
2. If the Confidential Provisions of the Company are disclosed- It is the moral and legal duty of the employees to not to dispose any trade secret, confidential data, and discussions and policies to any third party who is not associated with the company, which in turn can lead to losses and damage to the business.
3. If there is breach of the employment contract- If the employee violates the terms and clauses mentioned in the contract and does not perform according to the conditions on the basis of which he was hired and posted at a particular designation, then the employer can use it as a strong reason for the retrenchment.
4. If there is any misconduct on the part of the employee- If the employee acts outside its authority and indulges in any improper behavior and misconduct which may cause loss, damage to the enterprise, then in those circumstances the employer can rightly terminate the employment contract.
The following case discusses the termination of an employee who acted outside its authority which can be counted as misconduct: State Of Uttar Pradesh And Anr vs Kaushal Kishore Shukla 1991 SCR (1) 29, 1991 SCC (1) 691 is an example
Thanks & Regards
Somnath Prasad
27th January 2018 From India, Delhi
Dear Friend,
I would just say that if there is threat form individual directly or indirectly to company or its individual employee than it's right thing to do is neutralized it. Keep all the evidence within your custody that could be (written complaint by other employees, false documents given at the time of joining to get this job, any suspicious act, any audio or video conversation which show he is provoking other employee to act against the interest of company or creating such hostile environment that employee are unable concentrate on work) When such evidence are collected then ask employee to give justified reply against complaints by other employee under principle of natural justices, if his reply are unsatisfactory you can take necessary action against him.
At the same time it human behavior which act differently. Sometime itís cursorily to know something, sometime they are just pin-pointing someone just to enjoy them-self to see how the other person react.
If you are afraid of his fatherís bluff to sue organisation, I don't understand if your company is not wrong than why to be afraid of anything.
Just do what is right thingÖ take advice of everyone and do take decision yourself to do right thing. Like its said "Only person who go hurt can feel the pain" & only you can understand the gravity of the situation.
All the best with your search for right thing to doÖ
28th January 2018 From India, Rohtak
For the success of any organization it must get good productivity out of its employees. The challenge is that "Three in four employers estimate that workers waste at least 2 hours a day" (Poppick, 2016). So what is a business manager to do? Here is what I have learned so far:
1. Start by hiring only the best candidates. Even when you are desperate, a bad hire is worse than no one. A bad hire can cost you thousands of dollars or if really bad, your entire business. Find people that are driven to succeed, driven to make a difference and that you could see becoming a manager someday. Ask good questions in the interview that set expectations.
2. Be the example. It never ceases to amaze me how a manager or parent can expect the best out of others and expect so little from themselves. Go to church, read a good book, work on your deficiencies and become the person you desire to be. You will never be happy around others if you are not happy with yourself.
The Bible is clear on this topic, "Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God's judgment when you do the same things?" Romans 2:3 (NLT).
3. Set clear ground rules with a well-written and thorough employee handbook. The use of social media, etc. at work must be strictly prohibited.
4. Remove the obstacles in their path that prevent them from performing at peak performance. Sometimes the biggest obstacle is the individual himself/herself. Employees that are well-treated and progressing toward a brighter future are less likely to screw it up.
5. Work with the human resources department on a clear disciplinary policy. Give employees clear documentation when they fall short of the standard, what changes are expected and by when. This will give them the opportunity to get better that you and they want. It will also help the moral of top performing workers as they see that excellence or at least best effort is the only acceptable standard. This will help the entire group perform better.
6. Finally, celebrate successes. Buy them a lunch. Hand out awards. Give them public recognition. Everyone wants to be special. In God's eyes we all are. Why should we treat them any differently.
God Bless,
David Kasbohm
29th January 2018 From United States, New Braunfels
Dear Aakansha,
I think you already have enough of inputs. I have such experiences somebody threatening my colleagues to sue our company since we have strong pieces of evidence in everything we do, we encouraged them to do so. Sometimes people take undue advantage when they know you are afraid. Be bold and face the situation. If you need any further inputs how to build evidence do let me know. You can write to me on my email. Good day.
Hanu B Krishna
Serial Entrepreneur
31st January 2018 From India, Bangalore
Make a note " Company is liable to do employee varification from previous organization after accepting offer letter/joining and In case any of credentials proves to be fake or false,your employment will be terminated with immediate effect" add it in your offer letter or offer letter mail.
If you had mentioned it in your letter,situation would not have been this worse.
For now do not make any official communications and also prevent phone call as it can be record. Tell him that you provided fake documents so we are lodging a complaint in PS and cancelling your offer letter
5th February 2018 From India, Mohali
Dont wait till he file a sui case against company,issue show cause notice against the 10 complaints received from others.
20th February 2018 From India, Delhi
Pls don't drag on the issue months together....
Advocates..Legal threats....Never fear..
According to labour laws
The Employer has every right to remove any employee at any time showing reasonable cause of action...ANY LEGAL LAWS SUPPORT GOOD SAMARITAN BEHAVIOUR ED PERSONS...IN ANY FIELD .LAW IS VERY TOUGH ON MISCHIOUS PEOPLE EVER IN ANY FIRM.
Gannahope nellore
1st March 2018 From India, Nellore
With appointment or offer letter you should add a letter in which it should be mentioned that "If found with any fraud of documents and more your service will not be entertained in the company and soon will be terminated by the company with no prior notice".
Yes, most of the companies hire candidate and do BG, if the associate has joined a week before make sure you collect the documents and recording that the associate has kept fake documents of previous employer.
Keep the records can tackle even with god, think about lawyer.
1st March 2018 From India, Hyderabad
Termination of employees for submission of fake documents is a standard clause written into all employment / offer letters and in most cases, it is even listed in the job application form (at least here in Malaysia, all the companies have it as a standard practice). So you should be safe from harm if you can furnish proof of the fake documentation. Besides that also reflects poorly on the person submitting the fake documentation.
21st March 2018 From Malaysia, Bukit Mertajam
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