How Much To Pay An Employee Fired Within 7 Days - CiteHR
Dinesh Divekar
Business Mentor, Consultant And Trainer
Saswatabanerjee
Partner - Risk Management
Tsivasankaran
Consultant
Teamgrouphr
Placement Consultancy
S.Chandrasekar
Hr-manager, Trainer, Writer
Nathrao
Insolvency N Gst Professional
Nashbramhall
Learning & Teaching Fellow (retired)
Mail8013
Hr Consultant
769fb97cb2882778bed498c07
Behavioural And Outbound Training
Mahajansahab
Director
+1 Other

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Hi,
I am director of a company where we donot have an HR. I have some questions which we have been having a problem with since a few years :

1. If a new employee leaves in 4 days or 10 days or before even a month's completion are we liable to pay him/her ?

a. Firing - In case of misconduct from employee or misbehaviour
b. Firing - In case of False submission of documents which are verified after a few days of hiring
c. Employee Quitting seeing a lot of pressure or incompetency

2. We have seen some employees come in from various agencies trying to take away our team to other companies, what to do with them ?

3. Can anyone provide me Probationary appointment letter , appointment confirmation letter after probation is complete , list of minimum holidays which are mandatory to be given in India. Since we see different employees turning up and asking about their religious holidays or gazetted holidays. Our company is a service provider company & we cannot afford so many holidays, what to do ?

Thanks in advance ..
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Hello Mr. Mahajan,
You seem to be sitting on a heap of issues with respect to your employees. I wonder how you would be managing the ER situation in your office.
Your note consists of a series of queries, half of which are inter-related and the rest half to do with policies/procedures. The answers to some of your queries are a bit descriptive, while the others requires some files to be attached and sent.
You may send me a mail on mail8013 and I will revert to you with the details.
Cheers, A.B.
Dear Mahajansahab,

The paragraph-wise replies are as below:

I am director of a company where we donot have an HR. I have some questions which we have been having a problem with since a few years :

1. If a new employee leaves in 4 days or 10 days or before even a month's completion are we liable to pay him/her ?

a. Firing - In case of misconduct from employee or misbehaviour

b. Firing - In case of False submission of documents which are verified after a few days of hiring

c. Employee Quitting seeing a lot of pressure or incompetency

Comments: - First and foremost, you have been running the company without HR. What was the logic? Have you calculated the cost your company has incurred for not keeping HR? Does it outweigh the cost of having HR?

In each of the above case i.e. a, b and c, you need to pay till the last working day of the employee. This is mandated by Payment of Wages of Act.


2. We have seen some employees come in from various agencies trying to take away our team to other companies, what to do with them ?

Comments: - These things are common everywhere and your company should be no exception. Recently, Vishal Sikka has joined as CEO of Infosys. Ever since he has joined, he has been pulling high level staff from his ex-company , SAP Labs.

To make sure that employees stay in your company, you need to create conducive culture. What employee retention strategies have you employed? What is the manpower attrition percentage? Is it above or below industry standard?


3. Can anyone provide me Probationary appointment letter , appointment confirmation letter after probation is complete , list of minimum holidays which are mandatory to be given in India. Since we see different employees turning up and asking about their religious holidays or gazetted holidays. Our company is a service provider company & we cannot afford so many holidays, what to do ?



Comments: - For the formats of the appointment letters, search this forum. You will get sufficient formats. It is surprising to find that even after running company for "few" years, you are yet to finalise drafts of these basic documents. This activity should have been completed when the company was started.

If you are from service based company then you are covered under Shops and Establishment Act of the state from which you operate your company. It is mandatory to declare closed holidays and provide leave as per this act. There is no question "few" or "so many". Generally, as per the Shops and Establish Act of the most of the states, it is mandatory to provide 10 closed holidays. Of these, it is mandatory to provide holidays on Republic Day, Independence Day and Gandhi Jayanti. Added to this is state formation day like in the state of Karnataka. Other six/seven are to be decided by the management of the company. However, check the law of your state.




Thanks,

Dinesh Divekar

Bangalore - 560092


The poster of this query needs to hire a capable HR person with 10-12 years experience.
Most of these queries can be sorted out by a HR person.
The management as a team need to work and create a conducive environment in which employees think twice before leaving.
Mobility is a world wide phenomena.
Certain departures will take place.
One must have a plan of action.
Eye to be kept on key personnel to see that they can be retained by conducive employee friendly policy.
""We have seen some employees come in from various agencies trying to take away our team to other companies, what to do with them ?""
Strict policy on visitors entry for other than business related matters can be introduced and proper records of visitors using any VMS can be done.
Best way to stop such departures is wining employee loyalty.
Obviously your organisation needs to revamp and have proper HR department-which is proactive,friendly and professional in duties and attitudes.
Often employers look at support services as waste of investment and design their own customized list of holidays, their own Minimum wages act, PF/ESI etc. The joke is that many employers modify everything prescribed by the labor law/ Establishment act and call it 'company policy'. A wonder! After confusion erupts, they realize it is hot stove to sit on. So, it is very easy to start companies to fulfill one's own long time dream without an action plan.
As a non HR retired academic, I tend to raise questions rather than reply to questions which lack enough details about the scenario.
For example, in this particular case, Mahajan Sahab should have given more information as follows:
1. What is the size of the company for which he is a director?
2. Where is the company located?
3. Why is there no HR, is it because the company is new or because it is small and cannot afford one?
4. Ha he done any search on the web/CiteHr to check if there are already any information on drafting appointment letters?
5. Why has the company not got any policies on holiday provision?
I really appreciate responses given by experts; however, I feel that giving responses before seeking and understanding the scenario may result in unnecessary discussions as at https://www.citehr.com/527285-met-ac...hicle-pg3.html.
Guys thanks for replying. I seriously think we should hire a HR before anything else. Seeing the gravity of our situation and by judging your responses I think it was a bad decision not to hire a HR.

To answer Nashbramhall here you go :

1. What is the size of the company for which he is a director?
Ans: about 30 employees

2. Where is the company located?
Ans: we have an office in Delhi & Amritsar

3. Why is there no HR, is it because the company is new or because it is small and cannot afford one?
Ans: Its because I never thought I needed one .. Bad Decision on my part.

4. Ha he done any search on the web/CiteHr to check if there are already any information on drafting appointment letters?
Ans: Yes I found lots of appointment letters & other stuff BUT because of absence of a talented HR , I think im goofing up big time mixing different types of appointment letters.

5. Why has the company not got any policies on holiday provision?
Ans: We are forced to make new policies every year because staff changes very rapidly. Earlier I thought its because the my hiring skills are not good enough but now I think HR is missing. Every year new type of staff comes in and they crib about holidays. We started with offering 24 to 36 holidays a year 6 years back but now have come down to about 8 National Holidays + 5 Holidays a year extra in case employees have a grave emergency, which is again another loophole.

All this is adding to employee dissatisfaction I think. What do you guys suggest ? What should I look for in a Good HR for my company ? Any good resources or recommendations for our Delhi based office ?

I think this is the next big task for me !! Your Help is solicited & appreciated.
Look for a HR person who has at least 10-12 years in any reputed organisation.

First thing set up a proper organisation for HR.

Legal compliances will have to listed out and complied with and proper interlinked records maintained thereof.

Standard set of formats -appointment,leave application format and other standard communication formats.(can be kept on line for easy filling up etc)

Depending on the state your offices work-compliances specific to the state for labour,safety,women employees etc.

Leave policy in line with your industry and specific holidays as per State Government.

Conduct rules,promotion rules, work timings,holiday work to be spelt out.

Fire safety of premises-fire extinguishers,fire alarm,fire exits etc.

CCTV in important areas and at entrances of premises.(and warning sing that CCTV is installed)

Exit interviews(in view of high attrition)

Causes of high attrition to be examined.

Proper recruitment procedures-interview,practical test,BGV etc

Training and induction guidelines as applicable to your industry, production processes.

The list is long but a small team of HR employees can set up a functional office and bring HR matters in control and documented.

The importance of this HR setup can be understood from the fact that your attention can now focus on production/quality,new products and target market instead of routine HR matters.

Make a cost benefit analysis and you will easily understand the need for HR-functional and professional.

All the best.
Dear Mr Mahajan

HR is not about hiring a HR person. Whether you have 30 employees or 3000 employees, you still can run without designated HR person provided you have well laid down HRolicies which are automated.

In the context of the information provided, I suggest that you do not need to engage a HR person. Probably you can engage a Senior HR consultant who can advise you regularly.

1. Whether to pay if an employee leaves within. Few days.

Legally you need to pay. You need to deduct PF you need to deduct ESI. How one manages practically is a different question. If you engage. HR assistant, he or she cannot take decisions as it is an ethical question .only you need to take a decision. Examine how you can manage practically.Consult HR consultant with experience

2. Firing

Firing on account misbehaviour implies stigma and legally you can not terminate unless there is an enquiry

Firing on account of misrepresentation again requires a charge Sheehan enquiry and termination.the process is not complicated as it sounds. My advice is do not engage anyone unless certificates are verified.However, issue a letter asking him to submit certificates, and if does not then issue another letter saying that his services would be terminated and still if he does not, then terminate his services. Drafting these letters are very critical.

If a person quits on pressure of work, let him quit.

3. Business is all about managing competition If they take your employees, you should not get discouraged. You need to refine yourHR processes and policies yourself. You do not need. HR officer for this. I again repeat, engage a consultant for a year or so.

4. Offer letters are available in net but consult someone before you start using these letters

5. Holiday. Legally you need to give 9 days of Holidays. In some States it is more.finalise holiday list yourself and display. There will be three/four national holidays and remaining will be festival
Putting in place a professional HR system -whether outsourced,hiring a senior consultant or in house- is essential.
Using technology to maintain records,generate reports,payrolls,legal deductions etc will also be good idea.
Managing Human resources is important to achieve production targets and other KRAs of the company.
Ad hoc arrangements of director looking after routine affairs of HR will be counter productive.
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