Hello Members,
For the recruiting process for KEY positions in our Group, we use psychometric tests that gauge the candidate on self-image, decision-making style, interpersonal sensitivity - Firo - B, ego state, leadership style, and emotional intelligence.
I wanted to know if there is a tool to check if the habit of an employee will interfere with work. To add more clarity, I can explain an incident that took place in our company:
We hired a person for a senior position - in accounting. He was perfect with his skills and was given a positive response from the skills side.
I completed his psychometric tests that showed results that he was depicting himself to be a "perfect person" (under self-image)... but Firo - B revealed that he was only "trying to present himself good" but the truth was just the opposite.
On the job - he was excellent. But we learned that he was an alcoholic. None of us were worried about that - until he started to drink and come to work. We warned him more than twice... but then he started drinking in his quarters (that we provide). We were still okay with that as long as he did not come drunk or drink on the job... Also - we counseled him on the ill effects of consuming too much alcohol.
But this person started to invite his assistants and laborers in housekeeping to join him with his drinks. One day he was totally drunk and puked in front of our factory gate, and that was "a bad sight".
We are not in a position to let him continue... and he even borrowed an advance from us stating that he is going through a divorce... whereas the truth was... there was no such divorce issue. His wife was ignorant of all these facts, and she contacted the company and asked why we were not paying him the salary! Thank goodness we have all proofs.
Now my worry and our org's concern is - we don't mind a person having such habits provided it does not interfere with work and others around and spoil the atmosphere. This is just one thing that happened.
Another person is addicted to computer games - Biz dev manager. good at work... but whenever he is not got work - he plays computer games and online games - obviously everyone is frustrated and asking me - "If he is that jobless can't he take a load of others work?"
I don't know if a tool exists to understand if such habits would interfere with their work. I cannot ask them - I mean, even if I ask, they would say "NO...!"
Or can at least someone help me understand some parameters based on which this issue can be sorted out?
Looking forward to hearing from you!
From India, Madras
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57For the recruiting process for KEY positions in our Group, we use psychometric tests that gauge the candidate on self-image, decision-making style, interpersonal sensitivity - Firo - B, ego state, leadership style, and emotional intelligence.
I wanted to know if there is a tool to check if the habit of an employee will interfere with work. To add more clarity, I can explain an incident that took place in our company:
We hired a person for a senior position - in accounting. He was perfect with his skills and was given a positive response from the skills side.
I completed his psychometric tests that showed results that he was depicting himself to be a "perfect person" (under self-image)... but Firo - B revealed that he was only "trying to present himself good" but the truth was just the opposite.
On the job - he was excellent. But we learned that he was an alcoholic. None of us were worried about that - until he started to drink and come to work. We warned him more than twice... but then he started drinking in his quarters (that we provide). We were still okay with that as long as he did not come drunk or drink on the job... Also - we counseled him on the ill effects of consuming too much alcohol.
But this person started to invite his assistants and laborers in housekeeping to join him with his drinks. One day he was totally drunk and puked in front of our factory gate, and that was "a bad sight".
We are not in a position to let him continue... and he even borrowed an advance from us stating that he is going through a divorce... whereas the truth was... there was no such divorce issue. His wife was ignorant of all these facts, and she contacted the company and asked why we were not paying him the salary! Thank goodness we have all proofs.
Now my worry and our org's concern is - we don't mind a person having such habits provided it does not interfere with work and others around and spoil the atmosphere. This is just one thing that happened.
Another person is addicted to computer games - Biz dev manager. good at work... but whenever he is not got work - he plays computer games and online games - obviously everyone is frustrated and asking me - "If he is that jobless can't he take a load of others work?"
I don't know if a tool exists to understand if such habits would interfere with their work. I cannot ask them - I mean, even if I ask, they would say "NO...!"
Or can at least someone help me understand some parameters based on which this issue can be sorted out?
Looking forward to hearing from you!
From India, Madras
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Ash,
These occurrences are normal in industrial work life. We encounter many such incidents, especially in manufacturing, because most employees are continuously engaged in work, including overtime and without proper breaks, which makes them addicts.
The second issue is computer games, which is not the fault of the employee. Many of us also log in to citehr during office hours. Just because an employee is efficient at work, it does not mean they should not do anything else. After completing their regular assignments from their boss, we should not complain about their idleness leading to engaging in extracurricular activities. Thinking that an employee, employed for 8 hours, should not enjoy any liberty during those 8 hours is very old-fashioned. This kind of attitude existed during slavery times.
We need to understand modern HR practices and refrain from interfering with an employee's liberty to do what they enjoy in their free time.
Regards,
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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These occurrences are normal in industrial work life. We encounter many such incidents, especially in manufacturing, because most employees are continuously engaged in work, including overtime and without proper breaks, which makes them addicts.
The second issue is computer games, which is not the fault of the employee. Many of us also log in to citehr during office hours. Just because an employee is efficient at work, it does not mean they should not do anything else. After completing their regular assignments from their boss, we should not complain about their idleness leading to engaging in extracurricular activities. Thinking that an employee, employed for 8 hours, should not enjoy any liberty during those 8 hours is very old-fashioned. This kind of attitude existed during slavery times.
We need to understand modern HR practices and refrain from interfering with an employee's liberty to do what they enjoy in their free time.
Regards,
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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Dear Partho,
We give enough breaks. This person drinks at 3:00 AM in the morning and comes to the unit at 4:00 AM and sits there!
We have advised him many times to come only at 9:00 and not to extend work at all!
We give him enough break hours...on his request, we had also given him a COMPLETELY furnished quarters (in a 1st class allocation - with all comforts!)
But his alcoholic nature is interfering with work.
As far as the computer game is concerned - I would not say that using citehr is equivalent to that. But IF my boss does not want me to use this, I might very well not use it (even if he does not understand). But fortunately, he knows that I use such forums and prefers me networking and gaining information.
The problem is, he is a Biz Dev manager. As far as the opportunity is concerned, he is supposed to identify new business prospects. But since he was initially based out of Orissa, he used the excuse of a flood as a reason for NO work. But we have always asked him to look at other areas too. We have invested a huge amount in his training as far as offsite visits are concerned... I guess he should know how to utilize the time and tools for at least office purposes. He can very well play games once he is outside. Trust me - he comes in at 9 and leaves at 5:00 pm. From 9:00 - 10:30 in the morning, he plays chess.
From 11:00 - 12:30, he reads the newspaper.
From 2:00 to 3:00, he browses some material on the website (I guess it's related to work) and after that, he plays other games.
His attitude has changed from before. He was always doing something or the other - but now, he is OUT OF FOCUS.
From India, Madras
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We give enough breaks. This person drinks at 3:00 AM in the morning and comes to the unit at 4:00 AM and sits there!
We have advised him many times to come only at 9:00 and not to extend work at all!
We give him enough break hours...on his request, we had also given him a COMPLETELY furnished quarters (in a 1st class allocation - with all comforts!)
But his alcoholic nature is interfering with work.
As far as the computer game is concerned - I would not say that using citehr is equivalent to that. But IF my boss does not want me to use this, I might very well not use it (even if he does not understand). But fortunately, he knows that I use such forums and prefers me networking and gaining information.
The problem is, he is a Biz Dev manager. As far as the opportunity is concerned, he is supposed to identify new business prospects. But since he was initially based out of Orissa, he used the excuse of a flood as a reason for NO work. But we have always asked him to look at other areas too. We have invested a huge amount in his training as far as offsite visits are concerned... I guess he should know how to utilize the time and tools for at least office purposes. He can very well play games once he is outside. Trust me - he comes in at 9 and leaves at 5:00 pm. From 9:00 - 10:30 in the morning, he plays chess.
From 11:00 - 12:30, he reads the newspaper.
From 2:00 to 3:00, he browses some material on the website (I guess it's related to work) and after that, he plays other games.
His attitude has changed from before. He was always doing something or the other - but now, he is OUT OF FOCUS.
From India, Madras
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Nice problem you have, Asha. Though it did give me a laugh while I was reading your posting, I can visualize the headache you - as HR - must be going through.
Frankly, I don't think there is any such test to find out. But there could be two ways of handling/pre-empting such situations.
1) Build-in such inputs too in your joining formalities or for existing employees, a part of the Annual Appraisal Form. In the latter, it can be a bit more discreet to avoid any ego hang-ups.
2) Expand on the usual inferences that you make with the results of your regular psychometric tests. For example, the result about this guy on FIRO-B could be a lead/indication to a possible attitude of lying when faced with inconvenient situations/questions - frankly, with that sort of result, I am not sure if he would qualify even for a regular job... You would never know if he was speaking the truth on the job. Under normal/casual circumstances, it may not matter. But in critical situations, would that be an acceptable trait?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Frankly, I don't think there is any such test to find out. But there could be two ways of handling/pre-empting such situations.
1) Build-in such inputs too in your joining formalities or for existing employees, a part of the Annual Appraisal Form. In the latter, it can be a bit more discreet to avoid any ego hang-ups.
2) Expand on the usual inferences that you make with the results of your regular psychometric tests. For example, the result about this guy on FIRO-B could be a lead/indication to a possible attitude of lying when faced with inconvenient situations/questions - frankly, with that sort of result, I am not sure if he would qualify even for a regular job... You would never know if he was speaking the truth on the job. Under normal/casual circumstances, it may not matter. But in critical situations, would that be an acceptable trait?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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no tool asha i can provide many examples where people sitting n playing cards, chewing tobacco coz it eases tension to them its common twity
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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From morning 9:00 - 10:30, he plays chess. From 11:00 - 12:30, he reads the newspaper. From 2:00 to 3:00, he browses some material on a website (I guess it's related to work), and after that, he plays other games. The attitude has changed from before. He was always doing something or the other, but now, he is out of focus. Hey, too much spying going on, haaa.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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This has been going on for one month, Ravi! He is "EVEN NOW" playing chess. The best part is he was admitted a couple of days back for high BP! Everyone here is teasing and asking, did he lose the game so badly that his BP went high? I feel bad that his image and our company standards are becoming degraded.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Dear TS....
This guy was good at the job. In fact, he is perfect with work... and for that reason, my boss and Chairman thought that we could indeed help him change. The Chairman himself advised the person to consume less and not let others point their finger at him. Each time he apologizes and he swears on "Lord Saibaba" that he will not drink. Though My Chairman was not concerned about all his promises... but thought of giving him time to correct himself.
But... seriously, he is losing the job only because of the uncontrollable nature.
From India, Madras
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This guy was good at the job. In fact, he is perfect with work... and for that reason, my boss and Chairman thought that we could indeed help him change. The Chairman himself advised the person to consume less and not let others point their finger at him. Each time he apologizes and he swears on "Lord Saibaba" that he will not drink. Though My Chairman was not concerned about all his promises... but thought of giving him time to correct himself.
But... seriously, he is losing the job only because of the uncontrollable nature.
From India, Madras
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Hello Asha,
There is no tool to precisely check a person's habit of interfering in his work. One simple thing that HR can do along with the tests conducted is to check back with the references provided by the individual. You can, of course, cross-verify from an HR point of view, and the same can be explained to the person on the other end by stating that this is the procedure. Remember, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."
Regards
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There is no tool to precisely check a person's habit of interfering in his work. One simple thing that HR can do along with the tests conducted is to check back with the references provided by the individual. You can, of course, cross-verify from an HR point of view, and the same can be explained to the person on the other end by stating that this is the procedure. Remember, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."
Regards
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Hello Asha,
I am not an HR expert, but I can say that if drinking interferes with the job, you have no option but to give him a written warning and potentially let him go if he does not change. The same approach should be taken for playing games while at work.
Browsing sites like citehr and networking are entirely different activities.
Best wishes,
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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I am not an HR expert, but I can say that if drinking interferes with the job, you have no option but to give him a written warning and potentially let him go if he does not change. The same approach should be taken for playing games while at work.
Browsing sites like citehr and networking are entirely different activities.
Best wishes,
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Dear Simhan,
Thank you for sharing your views. I am in agreement with the same opinion as well. However, is there a tool available to measure whether such habits can interfere with work? I am currently in the process of creating one. Perhaps I can share it with you and receive suggestions for improvement.
In our company, integrity, character, and self-respect are of utmost importance for survival. I must ensure that any employee who joins either possesses these qualities or is willing to change if provided with the opportunity to improve.
Thank you.
From India, Madras
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Thank you for sharing your views. I am in agreement with the same opinion as well. However, is there a tool available to measure whether such habits can interfere with work? I am currently in the process of creating one. Perhaps I can share it with you and receive suggestions for improvement.
In our company, integrity, character, and self-respect are of utmost importance for survival. I must ensure that any employee who joins either possesses these qualities or is willing to change if provided with the opportunity to improve.
Thank you.
From India, Madras
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Hi Ash, Did your IT department is spying on your employees to trece what he is doing on net? How you gather data of his activities with accurate timings..I think some spywere is used.... Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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From Saudi Arabia
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Partha... he is sitting just parallel to my workstation, I mean, just the next line. We all can see what he is doing when we walk inside the company itself. No spyware, all necessary - he is doing it coolly. Now he is off to sleep, just right in front of me. When the boss comes or he hears my Chairman's car, he closes all programs. About the accuracy of timings - though it's not the same every day, but that's how he divides his day-to-day activities. Recently, he stopped reading the newspaper and was updating everyone on IPL 20/20 match scores. Now that the season is over, he is back to his normal routine.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Asha, Please do send me the instrument that you are designing. Any new instrument that is created need to be tested for its validity and reliability. Simhan
From United Kingdom
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From United Kingdom
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Asha, regarding the alcoholic employee: Check if your place has a branch of Alcoholics Anonymous. They specialize in de-addiction activities, but as far as I know, this will need the family's support and the employer's too. Usually, it's a long-drawn affair, but really worthwhile. Your company needs to decide if he is such a valuable resource to invest time, effort, and possibly money in. If yes, try it out, or if no, dump him. I don't think anyone has the right to make others pay for their mistakes in life.
Regarding the guy with the computer games passion, since he closes all the windows when the boss is around, use non-verbal signals/messages to alert the boss to watch when this guy is at his pastime. That could put some fear into him. He will either change or go.
Now coming to our great Ravi—one can either hate him or love him, but he can't be ignored for sure :-).
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Regarding the guy with the computer games passion, since he closes all the windows when the boss is around, use non-verbal signals/messages to alert the boss to watch when this guy is at his pastime. That could put some fear into him. He will either change or go.
Now coming to our great Ravi—one can either hate him or love him, but he can't be ignored for sure :-).
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi, Ash,
Mr. Nas is correct and what you are thinking is also right. Please share whatever instrument you are designing. Also, if you share your views on what you are planning, maybe we can give our inputs, and it will help us to understand better.
As far as playing games is concerned, many people and managers play the share market during the first half of the office inside their cabin. I don't know the work setting of this Biz Dev Manager. Though it's tough to stop him if he is a good performer, work ethics should be in place so that it does not affect other staff. I can't say if it's in your knowledge or if other people can also see him always doing this.
Alcohol is something that comes under the code of conduct, which can be warned. As HR, we should make our top management aware of the ill effects of such activities, especially in cases where we are not part of the decision-making process. In such a situation, if a decision is not taken, at least you will be clear that you have informed and warned in advance with policies verbally as well as through emails.
From India, Mumbai
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Mr. Nas is correct and what you are thinking is also right. Please share whatever instrument you are designing. Also, if you share your views on what you are planning, maybe we can give our inputs, and it will help us to understand better.
As far as playing games is concerned, many people and managers play the share market during the first half of the office inside their cabin. I don't know the work setting of this Biz Dev Manager. Though it's tough to stop him if he is a good performer, work ethics should be in place so that it does not affect other staff. I can't say if it's in your knowledge or if other people can also see him always doing this.
Alcohol is something that comes under the code of conduct, which can be warned. As HR, we should make our top management aware of the ill effects of such activities, especially in cases where we are not part of the decision-making process. In such a situation, if a decision is not taken, at least you will be clear that you have informed and warned in advance with policies verbally as well as through emails.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Asha,
Coming drunk to the office is not a layman's issue. It is one of the primary issues faced by most industries (especially manufacturing firms).
This issue is not really an HR problem but falls under the subject of Industrial Relations.
You mentioned you had counseled the employee, but there are certain questions that have a catch in this situation.
These questions are challenging to design, but as a sample, here is one of them:
Why do you drink so often?
The answer might seem obvious, such as feeling tense, having too much workload, being unable to function without drinking, feeling lonely, and seeking company.
However, if the responses do not align with these common issues and instead reveal an over-addictive behavior, there lies the catch.
Analyzing an employee's expressions and communication style can help us standardize our assessments and draw inferences.
As I mentioned earlier, formulating such questionnaires can be quite challenging.
I hope this guidance assists you in creating a questionnaire to address the situation effectively.
One of the less troublesome solutions is to "FIRE HIM" in cases of repeated violations of the organization's code of conduct, behavior, and ethics.
From India, Madurai
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Coming drunk to the office is not a layman's issue. It is one of the primary issues faced by most industries (especially manufacturing firms).
This issue is not really an HR problem but falls under the subject of Industrial Relations.
You mentioned you had counseled the employee, but there are certain questions that have a catch in this situation.
These questions are challenging to design, but as a sample, here is one of them:
Why do you drink so often?
The answer might seem obvious, such as feeling tense, having too much workload, being unable to function without drinking, feeling lonely, and seeking company.
However, if the responses do not align with these common issues and instead reveal an over-addictive behavior, there lies the catch.
Analyzing an employee's expressions and communication style can help us standardize our assessments and draw inferences.
As I mentioned earlier, formulating such questionnaires can be quite challenging.
I hope this guidance assists you in creating a questionnaire to address the situation effectively.
One of the less troublesome solutions is to "FIRE HIM" in cases of repeated violations of the organization's code of conduct, behavior, and ethics.
From India, Madurai
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Dear Members,
Thank you so much for the guidance. I do know that coming up with a TOOL to check if one's habit interferes with work is really challenging. These are the areas based on which I thought I could design:
First: If the person is "addicted" to the habit.
Second: If there were times when the individual was AWARE that the addiction is interfering, tried organizing themselves, but failed to give it up.
These are a few lines on the basis of which I have initiated to prepare the instrument. But also, I want the tool to check if the person is willing to change and completely aware that the addiction to the habit is distracting them from focusing on other core issues in life itself. Because only if the person has accepted that he/she has a problem will they be willing to be counseled.
I will definitely share the instrument once it's at least half done so that I would know if I am on the right track.
Thanks a lot!
From India, Madras
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Thank you so much for the guidance. I do know that coming up with a TOOL to check if one's habit interferes with work is really challenging. These are the areas based on which I thought I could design:
First: If the person is "addicted" to the habit.
Second: If there were times when the individual was AWARE that the addiction is interfering, tried organizing themselves, but failed to give it up.
These are a few lines on the basis of which I have initiated to prepare the instrument. But also, I want the tool to check if the person is willing to change and completely aware that the addiction to the habit is distracting them from focusing on other core issues in life itself. Because only if the person has accepted that he/she has a problem will they be willing to be counseled.
I will definitely share the instrument once it's at least half done so that I would know if I am on the right track.
Thanks a lot!
From India, Madras
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Dear Asha,
All the best in your challenging project of designing the tool. However, if I might say so, and I might be wrong in saying this, it seems that you have already concluded that designing a tool would have a high probability of dealing with such cases.
It seems to me from your accounts that there are two distinct concerns for you:
a. What to do to take care of situations where an employee comes to exhibit dysfunctional behavior.
b. What to do to ensure that such people are filtered out at the recruitment stage itself.
It seems that analyzing the problem as above may be important as, however hard we try, there might be some cases who come to exhibit dysfunctional behaviors eventually.
For point (a), an MBO-based performance appraisal, with quarterly feedback system and enforcement on disciplinary norms should be critical. The role of the reporting authority in confronting the employee should be critical as well. Often, we need to equip the reporting authority to take care of such issues. In the cases mentioned by you, I wonder what was the role of the reporting authority. Assuming the desired role was played out, suggesting professional help to the employee (counseling, group therapy, alcoholics anonymous) should be easier.
For point (b), it seems to me that the tool you develop, in conjunction with other tools available, may be critical as they would give us clues. But the clues themselves may not be sufficient to prove or predict reliably whether the person would show dysfunctional behavior or not. I have found that if we do a few case studies with the candidate based on the clues, it may reveal critical details. Also, nothing like a robust system of background check, based on the clues.
All the best in your efforts again.
Sincerely, [Your Name]
From India, Mumbai
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All the best in your challenging project of designing the tool. However, if I might say so, and I might be wrong in saying this, it seems that you have already concluded that designing a tool would have a high probability of dealing with such cases.
It seems to me from your accounts that there are two distinct concerns for you:
a. What to do to take care of situations where an employee comes to exhibit dysfunctional behavior.
b. What to do to ensure that such people are filtered out at the recruitment stage itself.
It seems that analyzing the problem as above may be important as, however hard we try, there might be some cases who come to exhibit dysfunctional behaviors eventually.
For point (a), an MBO-based performance appraisal, with quarterly feedback system and enforcement on disciplinary norms should be critical. The role of the reporting authority in confronting the employee should be critical as well. Often, we need to equip the reporting authority to take care of such issues. In the cases mentioned by you, I wonder what was the role of the reporting authority. Assuming the desired role was played out, suggesting professional help to the employee (counseling, group therapy, alcoholics anonymous) should be easier.
For point (b), it seems to me that the tool you develop, in conjunction with other tools available, may be critical as they would give us clues. But the clues themselves may not be sufficient to prove or predict reliably whether the person would show dysfunctional behavior or not. I have found that if we do a few case studies with the candidate based on the clues, it may reveal critical details. Also, nothing like a robust system of background check, based on the clues.
All the best in your efforts again.
Sincerely, [Your Name]
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you very much, Surya! That really helped in my thinking process.
And Members, have you heard of CIDs - Chronical In-Depth Interviews? I am reading about this now. Trust me - I never knew that recruitment was such an exhaustive activity! It's copyright-protected, so I would not have an online version to share.
The book is by Bradford D. Smart, "Topgrading - How Leading Companies Win by Hiring, Coaching, and Keeping the Best People."
[Link to the book on Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/Topgrading-Leading-Companies-Coaching-Keeping/dp/0735200491#)
From India, Madras
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And Members, have you heard of CIDs - Chronical In-Depth Interviews? I am reading about this now. Trust me - I never knew that recruitment was such an exhaustive activity! It's copyright-protected, so I would not have an online version to share.
The book is by Bradford D. Smart, "Topgrading - How Leading Companies Win by Hiring, Coaching, and Keeping the Best People."
[Link to the book on Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/Topgrading-Leading-Companies-Coaching-Keeping/dp/0735200491#)
From India, Madras
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Employee engagement is very crucial. The proactive action could be to conduct PESV (Pre-employment security verification), i.e., antecedents verification during recruitment through a professional agency or to check with their previous employer. A psychometric test is another tool that can be used during recruitment to assess attitude.
Additionally, review your JD (Job Description) to see if more responsibilities can be added. If management decides, disciplinary action can be taken under the section "idling during work."
From India, Madras
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Additionally, review your JD (Job Description) to see if more responsibilities can be added. If management decides, disciplinary action can be taken under the section "idling during work."
From India, Madras
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