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Thread Started by #shwe11

Dear Friends,

You all are aware that these days lot of companies are cutting the manpower in order to do some Cost cutting....

I would like to raise the question that "IS this the good HR practice to hire first and then fire"....Companies are asking for the resignation even if the employee is meeting the expectations or making the working unfavorable so that employee themselves leaves......

My own company is doing the same....Recently our HR head said that we are not going to retain anybody and after every resignation we will celebrate -jokingly but still I was wondering if this is a final call then why we work hard on the recruitments...selecting the right person.....Our management goes for excess manpower.....We were having the manpower of more then 1500 employs but in last six months only 600 employees are left and also in most of the exit forms they have mentioned that they are forced to leave........

I would like you all to put some light on it as aren't we playing with employees future??????????

Expecting to see few vies on it........

Shweta Jaitly
24th September 2008 From India, Coimbatore
Hi frnds!!!!! 16 view but no replies..... Don’t you think this issue is also make sense????? Neither Agreement not Dis agreement .....no comments at all.....
25th September 2008 From India, Coimbatore
Dear Shew,
I am also one of the victim, I ahve been working in a big limited company for last two years, but suddency the company has finished the post of C.O. and 18 peoples are asked to step down, I know the worst situation ever I have faced, and this makes me such a selfish and professional person, previously I was used to work for company with full dedication and loyalty and honesty, now I am totally changed,
and the most surprising part is that now again the company has started appointing new comm. off.
company ki maa ki aank
25th September 2008 From India, Bhopal
This is just a situation which is prevailing these days in Comapnies......
Every Second company are cutting on jobs...Why So?????
We are in a HR forum I am just trying to fetch different thoughts on it that what makes the managment to hire first and then simply Fire people.....
It is simply to share views......might be you are not a victim(Which is good) of this but there a many employees which are victimized.....
25th September 2008 From India, Coimbatore
Hi Shweta,
Really, it's horrible the way these corporate giants are behaving. They by now have made an impact on a layman that now each and every person who gets employed would not worship on getting his work done in an effective manner, but getting saved from being asked to leave from the company.
This issue is really going to create a havoc within the professional arena all around the world.
It now becomes our responsibility to make sure that these giants should ensure us not only our job security but also a healthy future..the HR professional keep asking questions on our stability factor...but what if we as an employee we question them on the job security factor...
Shweta it's really one of the nice initiatives you have taken. I really support the cause.
25th September 2008 From India
Hi shweta,
Giving sense to Mangment and HR
One question to ask- for reducing cost through manpower why we incur recruitment cost
Manage with the talent which we already have.
Should not play witht the future of employees
afterall they are the assets
25th September 2008 From India, Mumbai
Hi Shweta

Good topic, I must say. I too approve of the idea that we should not blindfoldedly hire people and then lay them off! It's like playing with their career, not to mention the mental trauma that they might go thru.

I too keep on trying to convince my higher ups that we should first do a thorough internal study if we actually require someone new or the work can be managed by some existing employee.

Believe me, most of the employees are more than happy if we offer them job enrichment. So, instead of giving much more to a new recruit, we can give a little more to the existing employee to share the extra work. Motivation levels of the employees would also soar!

It is the duty of HR to convince the various deptt. heads to take decision prudently on hiring and firing.

Much more to pen down on this but am hard pressed today.

So I sign off here.

25th September 2008 From India, Gurgaon
Hi ,
This is very very serious issue now....:?:
Companies are playing with employees future. This is not good for both employee and employer. Because of this situation current working employee mindset will change and not intersted to work on dedicated manner. Even new joinee also will not work properly and always try to jump new company.
:idea: So employer should provide healthy and positive environment, if not it spoils both empolyee and employer future.
Raman :icon1:
25th September 2008 From India
Hi Shweta...
This is indeed one of the major issues in today's corporate world....n especially in the IT and IT enabled companies. I, being from the same industry, have come across so many people who are victims of this problem.
I completely agree with Tania. Proper manpower planning and proper analysis of the requirement for additional resources are the most effective ways to control this...
25th September 2008 From India, New Delhi
We are discussing only about firing, and what about the persons who had broke the bond without any intimation. Then what to do the organization that time. any one seniors tell me on this.
Thanks & Regards
25th September 2008 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Shwetha,

Its a good topic you have raised.

We call ourselves as Strategic Partners and at this situation you blame the company, I dont agree with you all.Is it that you just want to convince yourselves and say you are strategic partner when you actually restrict yourselves from not going deep into the fact and analyze the strategy of the top management.

If the Company feels that it can no more bear the expenses of manpower it surely takes good decision.

Let aside our soft natured and Humanity as a HR Professional, But be practical if the company has no enough funds do you think you can survive in the market by paying salaries to employees and with no Return On Investment.

Why do you deny the fact that even employees cold heartedly ditch the Company and go to competitors for better perks. Why are you feeling bad if the reverse is happening to them take it in a positive way. Just spread a rumour that the company is not profitable and you will see by next payroll you would be calculating final settlements to atleast 50% of the employees.

Yes I admit that its recruitment costs but that should be planned well in advance backed by good mid and senior level management strategy
I hope I have not hurt the feelings of my friends and being more practical. You will understand this concept when you work for Small & Medium enterprises, where the management struggles to bear even simple overheads like staff parties, picnic or even administration costs like visiting cards.
Correct me if Im wrong But I want Shwetha to reply me.


25th September 2008 From Qatar, Doha
Hi Swetha,

This is very burning issue. We need to take it very seriously.

Before sending out the employees every employer is saying that very common reason.i.e...

1. Your performance level is very poor.

Here is my question to all the HR people.

They are not performing well means why u have hired them into your organisation?

Is your selection wrong?

If it is right you are not a perfect selector.

Then you also need to go out along with those employees.

I am not criticizing the HR.Many MNC's having lot of rounds for an interview.Eventhough there is a lot of scarab material entering into the organization.

As said earlier one of our HR Mr. Bee why can't we take very talent persons at the time of recruitment only?
If we take the skilled person he can do the work of two skilled persons.
The productivity will be 1:2 ratios.

Finally i want to say all the HR people either don't show the above reason while you are sending some 'X' or 'Y' from the organization or recruit the talent manpower.

Being a HR i should not blame the other HR.

Please don't take it seriously but if you feel that my perception is wrong just tell me .

Being a fresher i need to learn a lot from the senior persons like you.

Thanks & Regards

25th September 2008 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Shwetha,

Hi Shahed,

Its a good topic you have raised.

Thanks for putting a comment on this...

We call ourselves as Strategic Partners and at this situation you blame the company, I don't agree with you all.Is it that you just want to convince yourselves and say you are strategic partner when you actually restrict yourselves from not going deep into the fact and analyze the strategy of the top management.

Firstly, I do agree with your valid point that we are Strategic partners ...and yes I must clarify that I am not blaming the company whereas I have raised that what made the top management deiced that we need to recruit manpower then after a couple of months suddenly cut on jobs as a cost cutting measure.......

If the Company feels that it can no more bear the expenses of manpower it surely takes good decision.

Good Decision is to fire any employee but on the grounds of Non performance.....I openly say that at times management also take wrong decision and when some subordinate try to give their view point ...it is usually termed as "Confrontation" ......It won't be wrong to say that at times our Risk Management strategies also fail.......Might it doesn't cause any harm to management but yes it is a genuine loss to employees who work hard but still left demotivated......

Let aside our soft natured and Humanity as a HR Professional, But be practical if the company has no enough funds do you think you can survive in the market by paying salaries to employees and with no Return On Investment.

Being Professional & Practical is very good but "HR" itself means Human Resources and it's setup in the company is not just for company but for employees well....HR people are also known as trust worthy people......HR acts as a bridge between the Management and Employees......

Why do you deny the fact that even employees cold heartedly ditch the Company and go to competitors for better perks. Why are you feeling bad if the reverse is happening to them take it in a positive way. Just spread a rumour that the company is not profitable and you will see by next payroll you would be calculating final settlements to atleast 50% of the employees.

I agree with you on this point that "employees cold heartedly ditch the Company and go to competitors for better perks" but in this situation HR do also take the hard ways to crack it off.....I am not criticizing HR Community but there are HR's who make false promises to fill the position and plays with an employee future.....Infact in this Website only you may find several issues relating to that......

Yes I admit that its recruitment costs but that should be planned well in advance backed by good mid and senior level management strategy

Thanks to you atleast you agree at some point......
I hope I have not hurt the feelings of my friends and being more practical. You will understand this concept when you work for Small & Medium enterprises, where the management struggles to bear even simple overheads like staff parties, picnic or even administration costs like visiting cards.
Correct me if Im wrong But I want Shwetha to reply me.

So Dear...I am not being hurt and hope that you also take this conversation in the right way.........But by way I must say that I used to work in the India's biggest Retail Chain but recently shifted to the mid sized MNC in Delhi...but my dear friend situation is the same........

Lastly, I must say that this issue is not to raise any comment on the any said strategy but it was posted to get different mindsets views on it...............


Shweta Jaitly
25th September 2008 From India, Coimbatore

All of us have been giving our inputs on this topic. Following comments ae my opinion.

While all of us agree that the manpower planning should be done properly, however the management might be taking all this into consideration. For Eg: from the time a deal is signed and the project is transitioned and executed on a pilot basis, there is a time lag and the man power planning takes place as per the deal, suddenly due to some crisis or unforeseen circumstances, if the deal is cancelled which might not be due to the fault of the company we are working for, we might loose our jobs. But did the company alsways have this policy of hire and fire, i dont think so.

2. The second scenario might be one of the companies which is our client, might not be in a position to operate any more due to losses, where it affects our revenue and we might have to look at either repositioning ourselves or loosing some of us. In this case there might be employees performing at 80%and the others at 90%. Both are considered to be good performers, but situations like this, the 90%of the performers would be preferred over the rest.

3. The third scenario might be that our company itself is troubled due to unforeseen external factors, so how can the company keep its operations going on? it cannot or will have to accomodate the job cuts in order to see that atleast some of the employees have the jobs by trying to get the company on track.

But inspite of all these issues, which are continuously going on the management i think never discourages any employee oriented programmes and facilities for the employees in either good or even average times.

So why are we only discussing the tough times which we face while being asked to leave and not appreciate the employers for taking care of us in the good times.

If we are in the HR profession, i think we must be able to evaluate some of the parameters and be able to take a certain stand which can be a win - win situation even in these troubled times. If not possible, then some hard measures as well. HR is not only about creating employee welfare and development related programmes, but also to be of strategic value to the organization. Always remember we are the face of both the employees and the employer and will need to act accordingly.

This is my opinion and i stand corrected if i am wrong.
25th September 2008 From India, Mumbai
Hi Siva, I agree with you as this was just one aspect of Management.........But there are companies which are very employee friendly also...... Regards Shweta
25th September 2008 From India, Coimbatore
Hi Sweta,
Today our company sacked one employee. He was recruited as an Mechanical draftsman. He worked with us for 2.5months as a draftsman. But it was found from his subordinates that he has no sound knowledge to supervise them although he is 47yrs old.
Then my boss separated him from Design department and let him to join in Production group to work as a supervisor. Today, after 8months of working in this organization, he was sacked with one month extra payment.
I blamed my engineering group. Their forecasting about manpower need was wrong. How a draftsman could work as a production supervisor?
I want seniors to give their opinion on this issue.
25th September 2008 From India, Calcutta
Hi, Shweta,
2 days back we see the same situation result in g. noida c.e.o. killed by worker. yes in todays senario this issue is very critical and the hr role is very - 2 important. i must say that Man power planning and industry sitution can play very vital role to solve this problem. if hr can made proper manpower planning sitting with production and finance guy's may be this sitution can be minimize... this is may thinking....
Samir Arya
25th September 2008 From India, Delhi
Hi Shweta
If this issue is viewed on humanian grounds than it would be unfair & unethical but being a professional you have to obey the orders & instructions from the seniors.
A quote from ARMY ethics provides: "1st is your nation, 2nd is the honour,safety & welfare of the men you command, your family, friends & society comes 3rd & your own dignity, pride & comfort are always the last."
If this taken to CIVIL follows as: "1st is your Organization, 2nd is the honour,safety & welfare of the men you work with, your family, friends & society comes 3rd & your own dignity, pride & comfort are always the last."
So don't worry & take it professionally.
25th September 2008
Hi all,

We all agree that the HIRE & FIRE is lack of poor planning. This also highlights that our accuracy of analyzing the market & future business opportunity is also poor. We have failed to analyze the requirement & business growth. We see that the business plan failing every organization should equip themselves with the contingency plan in simple terms PLAN B when PLAN A fails. So that it can retain performers in the organization rather lay off.

The current situation is a trigger for all the corporate giants to work towards Risk management & continuity plan for its Human Capital.
25th September 2008 From India, Bangalore
Hello Shweta,
It sad to see good man power going down the drain but let us all agree on one thing retrenchment is a reality which we live in .It good to know that you sympathize with employees.When it come to saving the company from collapse it is the Junior most that get axed, i know the pain to well.What can be done is at least the employees should be give amble time to hunt for another job and also use the office resources to to so .This Market slow down did not happen over night it was management which failed to foresee such a scenario,They Could have planned the layoff a little bit better .
25th September 2008 From India, Madras
Hire and fire is most common in abroad. Infact this kind of system is brought in and followed by most of the MNCs. They feel that money invested on hiring the new employees is far less than training the employee. Even if they are trained there is no surity that the employee is going to perform.
Now this has become a mantra for management. They hardly think twice before they hire employees or fire the employees.
25th September 2008 From India, New Delhi
This must be a good topic to discuss, me also once faced the same problem, and this reduces the attitude of people who worked sincerely for the organization and also this put a question mark to the employees career development.
25th September 2008 From India, Madras
hi Shweta,I can understand your anguish.The bigger the giant the more ruthless is the layoff.It is sad to see competent people leave.Firing to cut costs is a common practice during market recession,and these decisions are taken at the highest level,or they should be.The decision has to be deliberate and not panic driven as it appears in the case of ur org,as it involves careers and lives.Whom to fire ,is the next decision.Here the HR dept has to be incorporated.Some basis has to be set to fire employees,it cannot be done arbitarily.Relative merit in terms of competency,loyalty to the org,willingness to work for less,spheres of expertise are some of the parameters for relieving employees.Making life hell for someone simply to ease him out is crul and to a large extent immature/unprofessional.It is always better to be honest and upfront.To a large extent the employee should be convinced that the org has not retained someone less competent than him,and fired him.Firing to cut costs cannot be wished away,but it can definitely be handled in a honest,mature,fair and humane manner
25th September 2008 From India, Delhi
Hi Shweta,

This is a good topic for a debate. Infact these things are happening very frequently with almost all sectors be it IT, ITES, BFSI, Pharma, Airine or anyother sector.

According to me this is way of reducing the cost and increasing the profit or reaching at breakeven level for sustaining in the market.

According to me companies which are project based face this kind of problems more as when they have good projects or orders they recruit people in numbers and when they finish up this project and if they do not have similar project or orders in hand then they start laying off people. This is the part of the business and they do it.

In most of the cases people who are sitting on bench or who are less productive are fired or asked to leave. People who are productive they face this music rarely. So one need to work on himself/herself so that they have the right skill set required for the job in ay sector.

Its all dependent on the economy , if it is growing it will generate more jobs and even people who are less qualified will get a job because the demand is high and supply is less. At the same time when economy is down only those people are secure who have the right skill set becasue then comapnies become very choosy to select people and they look for people who got multiskills inorder to have less manpower and maximum productivity inoder to sustain in the market.

HR is very much a part of business and its very important to understand this from business point of view why it is been done.

I have put my view points on the subject. I hope it would help you to understand this better.

25th September 2008 From India, Surat
Dear Shweta,
In your reply to Tania on WHY HR?
You have mentioned as
HR acts as recruitor,Cost Centre,organization developer,manpower projection,budget projector,
HR helps organization to perform at it's best by providing the right person for the right job...
I think you quote but not act according to it.
When you say you are the Cost centre, Manpower projection, Budget Projector, Budget projector.
Then you should be knowing that if you are a budget provider,
How the company is performing?
Is it profitable?
can it accomodate enough manpower?
I think every one is agreeing that company cannot be blamed but you are pulling the string too long.
If you quote it then you mean it.

26th September 2008 From Qatar, Doha
It's a good topic to discuss in present scenario. Hard times are being faced by employees. When the things are going fine and till the US economy has taken its way downfall everything went well. Much business had been signed up by companies by showing the strength of manpower, and now to cover the financial problem due to US economy recission they are asking the employees to leave. Instead they can look into other alternative to cut the costs as advised by our friends in this forum.
But if we look in business men perspective, they had planned a lot for stabilizing the business and had provided lot of employement, so they might had thought of many alternatives and came to decision of cutting manpower to with stand in business in hard times.
Please let me know if iam going wrong....:icon1:
26th September 2008 From India, Hyderabad

In a lighter note, you just can't fire without hiring. Thus hiring is a must!!!

But on a serious note, I think we should look at the business perspective too. As we have been going global, our economy is not insulated any more unlike in past. If entire globe is affeted, we are only natural victims. Would you like to say that Lehmann Brothers filed for Chapter 11 to get extra happiness?

In our current legal system, it is not an easy option to fire. Thus I personally don't think companies enjoy shutting down in part or full. They also have other stake holders in addition to employees.

The only issue here is how wise is the downsizing process. How kindly it is handled and how much care is taken to inflict least pain. I assume, there is going to be no zero pain situation.

And part or the organization downsized only means that the other part is rightsized for survival. Some jobs are saved.

How many HR managers know that they are hiring so as to create a flock ready for firing? No one knows future. Not even Merryl Linch :-)

26th September 2008
Hi All,
Well I hv by nw seen posts in favor nd against d topic...,,, it's eventually gud, ,especially i'l comment on shweta nd shahed's hard work in puttin their posts,,,,gud job done by both,,,on one hand d issue raised is worth gettin notice itself,,,nd on the othr hand as an employee v need to undrstnd on y does these things happen..
I must appreciate the views mentioned by shahed, bt friend dn't u think dat smwhr down d line it eventually effects u evn,,,if u r an employee of a company,,, nd if nt...den a time wud cm wen it'l shw its effecton d cmin genration!!
Watevr mite b d reason,,,i hope things wud start bcomin favrble fr both employee and employer...ameen...:icon1::icon1::icon1:
26th September 2008 From India
Hi Shahed,

Yes I have mentioned and have acted accordingly but I guess you have not got it right......
Cost centre, Manpower projection, Budget Projector, Budget projector-Let me be specific this time as I know you again won't be able to understand.....
By all the terms mentioned above I meant of proper manpower planning(Which is done by HR only)...By Cost Cutting Measures I meant again cost cutting on the company's expenses as in stationary,printing cost,visiting cards,conveyance ,traveling etc..............(Might be in your Mid Sized Company these things won't but in Our we have major billings on these) & yes putting right and skilled people for right job is HR responsibility.........I understand that HR works according to the management decision but still.................

As far as Company's performance is concerned it has to be measured in the terms of projection of manpower....cost involved in it and major the strategy ...action plan we work on.... this has to be done before sanctioning of the manpower with the assumptions on that what would be the recruitment cost and what would be the risk involved in that if not able to meet up with the deadlines..........

In fact if I think you haven't read my reply on your post I have clearly stated that I am not blaming Companies for that...It is just an issue on why to Hire people....when really not needed....How can Management of any company who thinks that why is so mean????

If some body is not performing then Firing make sense but just because management thought they will be make it but unfortunately didn't...... doesn't make sense to fire anybody....I agree that what if employees break the bond or leaves the company ...in that case my friend HR do take hard action-Legal........& also I am not pulling the string too long I was replying to your specific Queries.......

This is about the management not about you & me...it would be appreciated if this can be stopped here as we can't change others mindset...might be with you it's okay but personally wid me it's not...Their should be a valid reason for the sacking of any employee ...Excess manpower indicates bad strategies(If not required)..........

You are being tough on this but as an employee if your management will fire you without giving the proper reason then you will understand the real pain of people who go through this.........There are lots of employees who are equally talented but are victim of this new management funda.........

I am again mentioning this not against HR but this just a thought to improvise the things if happening much around...A thought to plan better strategies....I strongly disagree on this but I am sure,you must be a tough HR in your Organization....Request you to plz don't make this argument personal...be it for the views only.....I have am disagreeing to the management decisions not yours......

I am happy that you work in some organization where might everything perfect but I used to work in a organization where skill full employees were hired but then sacked just because of the excessive manpower........... I mean the every single word I have written.......Hope that no more clarifications would be required and will apprecieate if not taken personaly.....

Shweta Jaitly
26th September 2008 From India, Coimbatore
Dear Shweta,
If the organisation is having good HR management and wisely utilised by the other departments, there is no place for talking about cost cutting,manpower reduction etc., as they can plan very well the Manpower planning according to the Production/operations volume
26th September 2008 From India, Madras
Companies do not take such decissions wantedly please understand thier situation too say for example if 50 employees taken away from a company of 200 employees understand such move is to save rest 150. take it positive at the same time companies must have rlieving policy in place and proper notice or compensation must be given to employees if that is not done properly please stand for your right be strong to give an legal notice let us be the last one affected.
26th September 2008 From India, Madras
Dear All,
I completely agree that these decisions are not taken wantedly ......but I am against the planning we work on ....and then not living upto that...
I am just trying to convey that we all have to put our effort to minimize the effect on the employees who suffer.....
I understand being in HR.... management doesn't do it intentionally but even if un intentionally done what kind of a damage it could cause to any employee in terms of attitude,dedication & stability......
I request all to plz take it in a positive manner ...This is not against us but in a way it's for every professional/working person.....

Shweta Jaitly
26th September 2008 From India, Coimbatore
Good Topic,
I think, Govt. bodies should interfere and make strict rules to safe guard employees interest. We can understand the current market situation and competion among various sectors, but hiring is creating frustation in our youth. I think this practice is not taking us to a brighter & prosperous India. Companies should change their hiring policies and better hire on contract basis. After contract period if they remove, frustation level will be much lower. Still we should hope for the best. There is very few companies following hiring & firing policy. I am working with a S Korean MNC where the employees are working for more than 30 years all over the globe.
All the best and check back ground of the company before you join.
26th September 2008 From India, Delhi

There are post being taken on personal basis here, Let's avoid that first and second thing every thread is for knowledge sharing so share it rather than arguing to each other.

As Shweta has come up with a serious concern being faced by all the major Giants and even to mid segment companies up to certain extent, I would like to say that yes it is a serious concern and I appreciate that you could bring that in to public for open discussion.

We still do not know the rootcause for this problem and we are commenting on the basis of assumptions. For every company the reason may not be the same as cost cutting. For some companies it may be as segrigation of business, Technology enhancement (NA to IT industry) etc.

If it is due to the above reason it is justified that they do not require the same work force now. Needs of manpower is dicreased. But in a certain cases where there is only cost cutting is involved and they take a way of retrenchment it is not fair enough. For cost cutting you may not let fo 50% of your company manpower. In certain cases the things shown to the external world and actual reasons are always different. We can come to a good conclusion only if we know the rootcause as i mentioned before.

I would appreciate comments on this.

26th September 2008 From India, Ahmadabad
The fact is companies hire when they are in profits and fire when they are in loss.
One has to understand and be mentally prepared and know the basic logic of the Companies behaviour.
Just arguing / discussing or feel bad about the situation does not work out. Private companies are meant for that.
26th September 2008
Hi Shweta,
My opinion is that generally organisation are not mature enough when they do manpower planning and their utilisation so they face such challenges.
Secondly, when ever we think of cost cutting probably mapower is the first one they think of which is unfortunate...in such difficult times its better to concentrate on generating more revenue(mr laloo prasads opinion on railway which is very true) which probably is a better and easy option and professionaly right too since mapower is the only resource which your competitors can not copy and are thus invaluable.
Last but not the least when have good resources they concentrate on making policy which are harsh on most of occasions and when you lose them you do hiring on mass scale aggresively which refelects the immature nature of organisations.
Would like to know others opinion too.......
26th September 2008 From United States, Long Beach
Dear Shweta, This is nowdays tectis, unfortunately, such companies has no proper direction and are having centralize system methodology. At that point cost cutting is just one excuse nothing else.
26th September 2008 From India, Bardoli
Hi Shweta,

Having worked in the industry for over 12 years now, These thoughts have often crossed my mind... but as we are a growing economy there are both boons & banes of it. While we reap rewards of the foreign currency inflows, it is time we learn the way the businesses operate globally. HR is no longer viewed as a support function by many corporates and instead is more oriented to become a business function... and the business situations are very dynamic... we have to constantly keep on evaluating our position vis-a-vis the market and do structural changes accordingly... However, I'm not trying to advocate the correctness of lay-offs. In my opinion too it is a very harsh truth to digest for the person affected.

While we do the dissection of the issue here, let's also not forget the other side of the coin where companies who get affected by the sky-rocketing salary demands of the people they recruit & still have to go through the pains of offer rejections, no shows etc... This does not justifies the unholy act of the employers but is also an issue to be debated as we discuss the issue of lay-off / pink-slips.

I agree to Tania's views where we should do a proper introspection before we go out and hire for a new position. We also have to acknowledge that there are times when companies make a wrong decision and it is never too late to correct...but at the same time we should avoid these mistakes... As a HR professional, it becomes more of our responsibilitiy to ensure that we do not crumble under the management pressure of hiring and present them with a better value proposition which helps avoid such situation. While I empathise with the ones affected, I also accept the market realities which are led by the demand and supply forces which drive the businesses for regular change in their strategies leading to such situations.
26th September 2008
I think the solution of this issue is the proper manpower planning, How? we have to align the organization vision, Long term and short term Goals with departmental goals and drive KPI's so that we may hire accordingly and retain them
26th September 2008 From Pakistan, Karachi
Dear Shwetha,

I would like to throw some light on this issue.

I am working as an HR executive in Infopark Cochin. Ours is an IT company with staff strength of 70 (approx) in this branch. Like many others, US recession is taking a toll on many of our US govt based projects and hence we have immense pressure from US Ho to give them details pertaining to manpower utilization.. We have employees working in sal range of 8K-15K/month. They give us the productivity according to what they are paid for.

During critical situations we are forced to layoff trainees n jr executives and hire one good candidate worth 3-4.5L who can think equivalent to 5 brains. At times we are forced to adopt such strategies for the very survival of the organization.
In this world of intense competition, we are forced to retain and nurture the best. Downsizing always affects those employees who are least important to company day today survival. Meeting requirements do not necessarily make a person a critical or inevitable resource. So to sustain many companies may shed their peripheral resources (support staff) to protect the core resources

Hope this explains the situation to some extend.
26th September 2008 From India, Kochi
Hi sweta,
I agree that this is the topic everybody is concerned nowadays,b.cos every third person is a victim..Yes it is true that employers are playing with employees life n future.But on the other hand what will the employers do if the world economy is not in a good condotion?We lose our jobs when U.S economy fails and our companies do not get thier projects.The employer is a bussinessman/person,he wants profits.So when he sees that he is not making profit,he tries to cut down his cost.What is the best way to cut cost?Fire people.Its fact and painful.But the other fact is we dont have a solution.Do we?:confused:
26th September 2008 From India, Hyderabad
i would like to point out my view that ....if a company can fire a person without thinking his/her career for the betterment of the company progress ....same way an employee can also quit from the job for his/her better career growth...so both sides are giving importance for their own growth. So i dont think any kind of injustice is happening here.:neutral:
26th September 2008 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
I agree that many Corporate companies does this. I strongly suggest that job analysis should be carried out before manpower planning ie., analyse the load in every specific function that would throw more light on future recruitments. Carrying out a job analysis would also facilitate job rotations.
26th September 2008 From India, Madras
Hi shweta,
this is one of the major issue these days, most painful part of this is when you ask an employee to leave without a proper reason,in most of company i have seen that company look towards their own benefit, i personally feel if we have this sort of situation we should lay out a plan we should discuss the situation with the employee so that they all are aware of the situation & they can plan accordingly... we should give them proper time to find out a new job...
Rajeev .......
26th September 2008 From India, Calcutta
Dear All,
I am a professional too (an Engineering Programme Manager at a reputed Automotive company in India). Now, HR is a function in any organisation. In all my professional career in good companies (indeed doing well), I have observed that ocst cutting through man power reduction happens because of an "open-cycle phenomenon". If this cycl is closed, then there may be a huge reduction in self or forced attrition and shall carry good amount of talent retention in goos or bad market scenario. If anybody needs to discuss this phenomena, you can mail me on .
Ramkumar Ojha
Programme Manager
26th September 2008
We have been speaking abt the companies who are firing employees at the cost of their careers...???
In contradiction to this, Wht abt the employees who are absconding from services, not serving full notice period and keeping company into soup as the employees not even think of the deliverabls which they ought to do.
And if the employee is serving notice period, he should be doubly sure that he finishes all the work and have a smooth transition.
These are my personal experiences, i have seen so many people who will not serve their full notice period, instead they abscond from services and when contaced will give lame excuses which are not at all true.
Best regards,
26th September 2008 From India, Secunderabad
The question you have raised is very pertinent.
I have experienced similar predicament in most of the places I have worked. 1st we fight tooth and nail to "hunt" the best talent for the position - the more stable he was in his past job , the better prefered he is- and then we scratch our head endlessely to find an excuse to pack him off.

Most often I have seen hiring managers ineptitude as a reason for this gap. Reluctance to put down a straight JD and list down the performance measures before hiring, reluctance to devote time during orientation and probation with the new joinee more often than not results in less than expected performance (though by what standards is difficult to fathom , coz they never initially put the perfromance measures or expectations in place).

As HR professionals I feel we are being used as pawns. One of the CEO's I know openly says "lets hire whoever we get now as we need to kick start the project , we can do away with him later".

It is upon us as HR professionals to put our foot down on such matters and not get pressurised by unreasonable demands of CEO's. While understanding and honoring business requirement is a must there cannot be any compromise on the basic reason of HR's existence which is "to look after the human resources of the organisation"
26th September 2008 From India, Delhi
Hi Shweta,

This a very good topic you erect, even me also victim of the same. Even though I my mind say what we are doing that’s not good. More or less we are playing with someone career but being employee of the organization we don’t have other option. But certainly I am very much impress with “Tania M” proposal. Some how its looks good.


26th September 2008 From India, Panipat
Hello Everybody,
I think most of us agree that yes it is an issue , but what most of us are failing to understand is that even the companies are not aware what might happen to them 6 months down the line.
Did anyone even in their dreams assume that companies which did exceedingly well in December last year would go kaput mid this year, no none of us did. All companies irrespective of the size has been facing the brunt as it has affected them somewhere.
I have a different way of looking at this , it might not be the best thing to do but its the right thing to do. I'm sure all will agree that we would rather have 10 % or 20% of the employees removed rather than keep them and come to such a state where 100% lose the job . Its a tough call but a call that needs to be made. If we shy today we will only Die tomorrow.

26th September 2008 From India, Bangalore
I have already highlighted this many times here and I again reiterate the same. We should highlight the name of those companies which are hiring and firing off and on ..so that we can caution our known ones to be away from such companies..Kindly share the name of the companies who are doing it…asap to enlighten and awaken everyone here to be away from such companies
26th September 2008 From United Kingdom

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