I joined an events company as a project executive on 28th January 2013. The appointment letter shows 1st February, though. After working for the entire month of February, I was terminated yesterday, 4th March 2013, for not being able to bring business to the company within this month (we had a monthly target of 500,000). The termination email also mentioned that they would withhold my salary, which is payable on the 7th of every month.
Question Regarding Termination and Salary Withholding
My question to you is, are they liable to do such a thing after making me work for the entire month without providing me with prior notice? I must mention here that my prospect list was taken away under the pretext of helping me out with it and given to someone more experienced.
Thank you.
Regards,
From India, Delhi
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2Question Regarding Termination and Salary Withholding
My question to you is, are they liable to do such a thing after making me work for the entire month without providing me with prior notice? I must mention here that my prospect list was taken away under the pretext of helping me out with it and given to someone more experienced.
Thank you.
Regards,
From India, Delhi
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Hi Ekta, It completely depends on your appointment letter. Have they mentioned a termination clause for a probationer?
Usually, when a person has a probationary period, employment can be terminated from either side on immediate grounds. However, most companies do give a week's notice so that the person is prepared for it.
However, in your case:
1. Your joining date was 28th Jan, so it should be mentioned in your appointment letter as the same and not 1st Feb.
2. Regardless of the targets, there should always be a basic fixed component paid to an employee.
3. Monthly targets of ₹5 lacs even for a new joinee? Are you a fresher or experienced? If you're experienced, they might have given you a target based on your experience. For a fresher, such a target is not justifiable. However, in either case, it is not right to expect the employee to perform from day one, even if the person has experience in selling or generating business for the same product elsewhere because the work environment is different, and changing the workplace brings changes in peers, teams, and other things.
4. It is to be understood that a probationary period of 3 months is to be evaluated as a whole and not on a month-to-month basis because not everyone can perform from day one.
Clarify your doubts first with the HR as to how they expect you to perform. What was your performance? Have they given you any training on developing business, or do they just expect you to bring in business worth ₹5 lacs per month on your own?
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Usually, when a person has a probationary period, employment can be terminated from either side on immediate grounds. However, most companies do give a week's notice so that the person is prepared for it.
However, in your case:
1. Your joining date was 28th Jan, so it should be mentioned in your appointment letter as the same and not 1st Feb.
2. Regardless of the targets, there should always be a basic fixed component paid to an employee.
3. Monthly targets of ₹5 lacs even for a new joinee? Are you a fresher or experienced? If you're experienced, they might have given you a target based on your experience. For a fresher, such a target is not justifiable. However, in either case, it is not right to expect the employee to perform from day one, even if the person has experience in selling or generating business for the same product elsewhere because the work environment is different, and changing the workplace brings changes in peers, teams, and other things.
4. It is to be understood that a probationary period of 3 months is to be evaluated as a whole and not on a month-to-month basis because not everyone can perform from day one.
Clarify your doubts first with the HR as to how they expect you to perform. What was your performance? Have they given you any training on developing business, or do they just expect you to bring in business worth ₹5 lacs per month on your own?
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you for your quick reply. I am an MBA fresher, and this was my first job. My fixed salary was ₹16,500 plus incentives. They justified giving the joining date as 1st February by stating that the previous dates were for training, so we should pay them instead.
Appointment Letter Details
A) Your appointment with us can be terminated by you after confirmation by giving two months' notice or by forfeiting your two-month salary.
B) Your appointment can be terminated by us at any time without any prior notice if your work is not found satisfactory, and the company reserves the right to either withhold or not withhold your salary.
What is bothering me the most is that they took away my prospect list under the pretext of helping me with it. Can I at least ask them to pay me my salary?
From India, Delhi
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Appointment Letter Details
A) Your appointment with us can be terminated by you after confirmation by giving two months' notice or by forfeiting your two-month salary.
B) Your appointment can be terminated by us at any time without any prior notice if your work is not found satisfactory, and the company reserves the right to either withhold or not withhold your salary.
What is bothering me the most is that they took away my prospect list under the pretext of helping me with it. Can I at least ask them to pay me my salary?
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ankita Mam, Thank you for your quick reply. I am an MBA fresher. This was my first job. My fixed salary was 16,500 + incentive. They justified giving the joining date on 1st Feb by saying that on the previous dates, they were providing us training, so we should pay them instead. My appointment letter states:
Termination Clause
A) Your appointment with us can be terminated by you after confirmation by giving two months' notice or by forfeiting your two-month salary.
B) Your appointment can be terminated by us at any time without any prior notice if your work is not found satisfactory, and the company reserves the right to either withhold or not withhold your salary.
What is bothering me the most is that they took away my prospect list on the pretext of helping me out with it. Can I at least ask them to pay me my salary?
Ok, chill. How many days have you worked? Practically a month, right? Honestly, this is not the kind of clause a company should be framing because they are expecting you to abide by the rules, but they can simply break them all. No company can terminate any employee anytime they wish, except as I said, such a clause can be validated for the probationary period. No company can withhold salary for the duration you worked. The fixed part is to be paid. What is the reason that they gave to terminate you? Have they issued a termination letter? What did they say about not doing your F&F? Sorry for the delayed response, net issues...
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Termination Clause
A) Your appointment with us can be terminated by you after confirmation by giving two months' notice or by forfeiting your two-month salary.
B) Your appointment can be terminated by us at any time without any prior notice if your work is not found satisfactory, and the company reserves the right to either withhold or not withhold your salary.
What is bothering me the most is that they took away my prospect list on the pretext of helping me out with it. Can I at least ask them to pay me my salary?
Ok, chill. How many days have you worked? Practically a month, right? Honestly, this is not the kind of clause a company should be framing because they are expecting you to abide by the rules, but they can simply break them all. No company can terminate any employee anytime they wish, except as I said, such a clause can be validated for the probationary period. No company can withhold salary for the duration you worked. The fixed part is to be paid. What is the reason that they gave to terminate you? Have they issued a termination letter? What did they say about not doing your F&F? Sorry for the delayed response, net issues...
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Ankita Mam, they terminated me over email. Let me copy and paste the content for you. The reason given was for not being able to bring in business for the company. I am unsure about what an F&F is, honestly. Yes, Mam, I worked here from 28th Feb to 04th March 2013.
Termination Notice
Dear Ekta,
This is to inform you that you have been terminated from your job as your work was not found satisfactory, and you have not produced results. The company reserves the right to withhold your salary as you have not even brought in a single business deal.
Please hand over all the data, documents, and visiting cards entrusted to you to Mr. Hemant.
Renit Daniel
[Phone Number Removed For Privacy Reasons]
From India, Delhi
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Termination Notice
Dear Ekta,
This is to inform you that you have been terminated from your job as your work was not found satisfactory, and you have not produced results. The company reserves the right to withhold your salary as you have not even brought in a single business deal.
Please hand over all the data, documents, and visiting cards entrusted to you to Mr. Hemant.
Renit Daniel
[Phone Number Removed For Privacy Reasons]
From India, Delhi
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[QUOTE=ektachakraborty;2033813]Dear Sir/Madam, I joined an events company as a project executive on 28th January 2013. The appointment letter shows 1st February, though. After working for the complete month of February, I was terminated yesterday, 4th March 2013, for not being able to bring business to the company within this month (we had a monthly target of 500,000). The termination mail also stated that they will withhold my salary, which is payable on the 7th of every month. My question to you is, are they liable to do such a thing after making me work for the entire month without providing me with a prior notice? I must mention here that my prospect list was taken away on the pretext of helping me out with it and given to someone more experienced.
Response to Salary Withholding Issue
According to labor law, employers cannot withhold anyone's salary. You need to approach the Conciliation Officers, Labor Commissioner of your jurisdiction for your salary issue; it is your right. Nobody can hold your salary. Just ask for clarification as to why your salary is being withheld by the company. Ask for a show cause notice and submit a fresh grievance letter to the Labor Commissioner attaching the reply to the show cause notice from your company for the reason for withholding salary. You are entitled to your salary, not for the incentives.
Thank you.
Regards, Kannan Thevar. S
From India, Mumbai
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Response to Salary Withholding Issue
According to labor law, employers cannot withhold anyone's salary. You need to approach the Conciliation Officers, Labor Commissioner of your jurisdiction for your salary issue; it is your right. Nobody can hold your salary. Just ask for clarification as to why your salary is being withheld by the company. Ask for a show cause notice and submit a fresh grievance letter to the Labor Commissioner attaching the reply to the show cause notice from your company for the reason for withholding salary. You are entitled to your salary, not for the incentives.
Thank you.
Regards, Kannan Thevar. S
From India, Mumbai
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Full and Final Settlement (F&F)
The company has no right to withhold your salary, and you have every right to receive it even if you are terminated for your own mistake or misconduct, unless you have caused any damage or loss to the company.
From India, Bangalore
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The company has no right to withhold your salary, and you have every right to receive it even if you are terminated for your own mistake or misconduct, unless you have caused any damage or loss to the company.
From India, Bangalore
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Out of curiosity, were the prospect lists that were given to someone else generated by you, or were they provided by the company? Did you keep the company informed of what you were doing each day and what the status was of each contact or prospect you processed? Or was the company completely in the dark until the last day? Were you the only person recruited, or were there others? What has been the success or otherwise of the others? Were you the only one terminated?
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Our company is new in Delhi. We were not given any database, so I started creating a database of my own and kept a follow-up. We also had to email a DSR (Daily Sales Report) to our senior every evening before leaving. We called it the prospect list, which included those who had a chance of becoming our clients or with whom we were maintaining a constant follow-up, and the response seemed positive.
There are five of us who joined. One among us has also been able to bring in some business. The rest are in a similar condition like me, though I was the first to receive the termination letter.
From India, Delhi
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There are five of us who joined. One among us has also been able to bring in some business. The rest are in a similar condition like me, though I was the first to receive the termination letter.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ekta, I am sorry to hear about your travails and the lousy way the company treats its employees.
Key Issues Identified
- The company's standard is evident from the shoddy way they have framed their appointment letter and also the termination letter.
- The company never intended to pay any salary to freshers and just wanted them to generate leads for future business.
- From the leads generated by you, they can reduce their efforts and send their experienced sales staff to close the deals started by your efforts.
- They are aware that it always takes more than a month of sustained efforts to convert cold calls to sales closures. Thus, it's irrational to expect business in the first month itself.
- They have taken your list of prospects for this very reason. I hope you have a copy, which you can put to good use later (I'll elaborate later on the "how" of it).
What about others' (those who joined under similar situations) experiences?
Unjustified Clauses
The clauses in the appointment letter are arbitrary and unjustified. These will not stand the scrutiny of the law and are meant only to deny the employees of their rightful salary.
Such companies go about such business, assured by the knowledge that no employee would go about fighting a legal battle and would be more busy with finding another job.
I hope you meet the labor authorities of the area, put up a complaint, and pursue the matter further. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Please feel free to seek further guidance/assistance from our members for fighting this injustice.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Key Issues Identified
- The company's standard is evident from the shoddy way they have framed their appointment letter and also the termination letter.
- The company never intended to pay any salary to freshers and just wanted them to generate leads for future business.
- From the leads generated by you, they can reduce their efforts and send their experienced sales staff to close the deals started by your efforts.
- They are aware that it always takes more than a month of sustained efforts to convert cold calls to sales closures. Thus, it's irrational to expect business in the first month itself.
- They have taken your list of prospects for this very reason. I hope you have a copy, which you can put to good use later (I'll elaborate later on the "how" of it).
What about others' (those who joined under similar situations) experiences?
Unjustified Clauses
The clauses in the appointment letter are arbitrary and unjustified. These will not stand the scrutiny of the law and are meant only to deny the employees of their rightful salary.
Such companies go about such business, assured by the knowledge that no employee would go about fighting a legal battle and would be more busy with finding another job.
I hope you meet the labor authorities of the area, put up a complaint, and pursue the matter further. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Please feel free to seek further guidance/assistance from our members for fighting this injustice.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Termination Clause and Withholding Salary
Having agreed to their 'termination clause', you may not be able to contest it; however, there is no reason why they should withhold your salary. I think employers should exhibit far higher ethics, leaving aside what the law says. When the company hires a candidate, especially a fresher, the company knows it is taking a risk, and there is always a cost associated with this. This cost has to be incurred by the company whether results are achieved or not.
From India, Chennai
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Having agreed to their 'termination clause', you may not be able to contest it; however, there is no reason why they should withhold your salary. I think employers should exhibit far higher ethics, leaving aside what the law says. When the company hires a candidate, especially a fresher, the company knows it is taking a risk, and there is always a cost associated with this. This cost has to be incurred by the company whether results are achieved or not.
From India, Chennai
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Dear ektachakraborty,
To receive your salary, you must justify your attendance, muster, timesheet, or any other form of presence in the company to show that you are on duty. Request a reply regarding the hold on your salary. According to labor law, withholding salary is an unfair and illegal practice. Salary deductions can only occur if it can be proven that the employee has caused financial loss to the employer. I recommend addressing these points with the management. If they do not cooperate, consider taking legal action to recover your salary from the company.
Submit a fresh application or request letter to the labor commissioner in your jurisdiction.
Thank you.
Regards,
Kannan Thevar. S
(HR Administration)
From India, Mumbai
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To receive your salary, you must justify your attendance, muster, timesheet, or any other form of presence in the company to show that you are on duty. Request a reply regarding the hold on your salary. According to labor law, withholding salary is an unfair and illegal practice. Salary deductions can only occur if it can be proven that the employee has caused financial loss to the employer. I recommend addressing these points with the management. If they do not cooperate, consider taking legal action to recover your salary from the company.
Submit a fresh application or request letter to the labor commissioner in your jurisdiction.
Thank you.
Regards,
Kannan Thevar. S
(HR Administration)
From India, Mumbai
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All seniors have rightly suggested methods to claim your salary. There are certain SMBs who would do this either because they are ignorant of rules and regulations or they think employees are ignorant. I have faced a similar situation and have seen a few friends suffer too. Kindly ensure the following:
Kindly learn from the experience and question all such practices in the initial offering stage. Even on your joining date, it is up to you to sign the appointment letter. If the rules are not equalized and you feel it is unfair, you should talk about the same to the HR and seniors and get your doubts solved then and there.
Also, be thankful that you got to know the actual practices of your company as early as in 30-40 days. Weigh your pros and cons and accordingly move ahead. Please note that filing a complaint, as suggested by seniors, would not just help you claim the salary for the service you rendered for the said period but also ensure that they do not repeat such a thing with other employees.
Wish you luck
From India, Mumbai
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Kindly learn from the experience and question all such practices in the initial offering stage. Even on your joining date, it is up to you to sign the appointment letter. If the rules are not equalized and you feel it is unfair, you should talk about the same to the HR and seniors and get your doubts solved then and there.
Also, be thankful that you got to know the actual practices of your company as early as in 30-40 days. Weigh your pros and cons and accordingly move ahead. Please note that filing a complaint, as suggested by seniors, would not just help you claim the salary for the service you rendered for the said period but also ensure that they do not repeat such a thing with other employees.
Wish you luck
From India, Mumbai
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Mail Sent by My Senior Today
Dear Ekta,
Please note that in the appointment order duly read and signed by you, Point No. 7 states, "Your appointment can be terminated by us at any time without any prior notice if your work is not found satisfactory, and the company reserves the right to withhold or not withhold your salary."
We have found your work unsatisfactory as you have not generated any revenue for the company since your appointment. Therefore, it is clear that we must withhold your salary due to your non-performance and failure to deliver for the company.
Please find attached a copy of the appointment order that you signed.
This is the mail Renit Daniel sent me today. Should I reply to him? Should I file an FIR against him? Should I file an RTI? Or should I visit the labour commissioner?
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ekta,
Please note that in the appointment order duly read and signed by you, Point No. 7 states, "Your appointment can be terminated by us at any time without any prior notice if your work is not found satisfactory, and the company reserves the right to withhold or not withhold your salary."
We have found your work unsatisfactory as you have not generated any revenue for the company since your appointment. Therefore, it is clear that we must withhold your salary due to your non-performance and failure to deliver for the company.
Please find attached a copy of the appointment order that you signed.
This is the mail Renit Daniel sent me today. Should I reply to him? Should I file an FIR against him? Should I file an RTI? Or should I visit the labour commissioner?
From India, Delhi
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Don't worry, go to the labor office and meet ACL or DCL, and explain the situation to them. They will ensure your salary is paid. The company may have rules like probation, confirmation, offer letter, appointment letter, etc., but all statutory entitlements will start from day 1 of your joining. Don't think too much; your salary is Rs. 16,500. You can approach the labor office if your salary is above Rs. 30,000; otherwise, you need to proceed through the court of law.
Chills,
Karthik
From India, Vijayawada
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Chills,
Karthik
From India, Vijayawada
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As I said, an agreement is valid only if both parties gain something. Here, the clause is such that the gain is only to one party while the other suffers. Such agreements are not enforceable in a court of law. So just chill.
Probationary Period and Performance Evaluation
Have they mentioned any probationary period? If yes, they are to evaluate your performance at the end of the probationary period. If no, again to your advantage. Any new joiner (irrespective of being a fresher or experienced) is given a probationary period of 3-6 months wherein his or her work and skills are evaluated.
Steps to Address Termination
First, go to HR and ask the following questions:
1. What performance was expected from you in the very first month?
2. What is your probation period?
3. Take a printout of the email conversations which mention your termination and the reason for it.
4. Ask them to give you a proper termination letter - on the company's letterhead and mention the reason for termination & any clause that they have to mention.
5. Compare the reasons (there is a possibility they may change the reason on the formal termination letter):
a) If the same, proceed further.
b) If different, ask for your full and final settlement, i.e., salary. If that is denied, ask them to provide the same in writing and the reason for it.
6. Proceed to the labor office and file a complaint with a labor officer. You would need your appointment letter, your termination letter over email, and a termination letter on letterhead. Explain the whole matter. Let him guide you further and take necessary action under his guidance. As far as my knowledge goes, once you lodge a complaint with the labor office, they go to the company, and the company is answerable to them.
Relax. As mentioned, a one-sided clause in an agreement is null and void; you do not have to worry much.
All the best. :)
From India, Mumbai
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Probationary Period and Performance Evaluation
Have they mentioned any probationary period? If yes, they are to evaluate your performance at the end of the probationary period. If no, again to your advantage. Any new joiner (irrespective of being a fresher or experienced) is given a probationary period of 3-6 months wherein his or her work and skills are evaluated.
Steps to Address Termination
First, go to HR and ask the following questions:
1. What performance was expected from you in the very first month?
2. What is your probation period?
3. Take a printout of the email conversations which mention your termination and the reason for it.
4. Ask them to give you a proper termination letter - on the company's letterhead and mention the reason for termination & any clause that they have to mention.
5. Compare the reasons (there is a possibility they may change the reason on the formal termination letter):
a) If the same, proceed further.
b) If different, ask for your full and final settlement, i.e., salary. If that is denied, ask them to provide the same in writing and the reason for it.
6. Proceed to the labor office and file a complaint with a labor officer. You would need your appointment letter, your termination letter over email, and a termination letter on letterhead. Explain the whole matter. Let him guide you further and take necessary action under his guidance. As far as my knowledge goes, once you lodge a complaint with the labor office, they go to the company, and the company is answerable to them.
Relax. As mentioned, a one-sided clause in an agreement is null and void; you do not have to worry much.
All the best. :)
From India, Mumbai
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Now that all is well and settled with the guidance of CiteHR members, suggest learning from this experience. Like the saying goes: A mistake is a mistake until you realize it, correct it, and learn from it - then it's experience. Guess the next step would be to look for another job ASAP.
All the best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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All the best.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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To get your salary, you have to justify your attendance, muster, timesheet, or any other mode of being present or absent in the company, indicating whether you are on duty or not. You should then request confirmation from the company to release your salary. According to labor laws, holding an employee's salary is not a fair practice; it is illegal.
Salary deductions can only be made if it is proven that the employee has caused financial loss to the employer. I recommend discussing these points with the management, and if they do not respond, consider taking legal action to recover your salary from the company.
I advise you to prepare a new application or request letter to the labor commissioner in your jurisdiction.
Thank you.
From India, Ranchi
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Salary deductions can only be made if it is proven that the employee has caused financial loss to the employer. I recommend discussing these points with the management, and if they do not respond, consider taking legal action to recover your salary from the company.
I advise you to prepare a new application or request letter to the labor commissioner in your jurisdiction.
Thank you.
From India, Ranchi
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