Dear friends, I missed you all for a few days. I am really glad to be back and participate in this purposeful forum. I see many interesting discussions going on. Special thanks for the message from Mr. Dipil and his earnest attempt to keep the forum lively too.
Now on to business:
Please, my friends, don't take H.W. Heinrich's or others' formula for first aid cases, lost time cases, and fatal accidents. It is not going to help you in any way. At a time when nothing was done or known or even considered accident prevention as a necessity, these were of much help.
Now consider - in a country like India, can you get accident statistics for the past year? And if one is available, is it reliable? The answer is NO!
Have you got a perfect accident reporting, investigating, analyzing, and documenting system in your organization? Most probably no. If you have, you are lucky. Consider those documents seriously and derive your own formula, which will be foolproof.
In most cases, industries manipulate accident records for some false prestige. Often, Safety Officers also form part of this type of documentation as they are to show loyalty. But privately, one can take an interest in this matter and collect data for a minimum period of three years to derive a clear picture.
At the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, the conditions were so bad. Even in 1931 when Heinrich brought out his book with his domino theory and the formula, it was not that different.
What could be the ratio of first aid cases, LTA, and fatal accidents with the conditions prevailing at that time may not suit now?
Let us be realistic. Let us put forth some effort and find new things instead of blindly worshipping whatever is written by others. Let us start questioning those and be effective at this age, I pray.
Regards,
KESAVA PILLAI
From India, Kollam
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256Now on to business:
Please, my friends, don't take H.W. Heinrich's or others' formula for first aid cases, lost time cases, and fatal accidents. It is not going to help you in any way. At a time when nothing was done or known or even considered accident prevention as a necessity, these were of much help.
Now consider - in a country like India, can you get accident statistics for the past year? And if one is available, is it reliable? The answer is NO!
Have you got a perfect accident reporting, investigating, analyzing, and documenting system in your organization? Most probably no. If you have, you are lucky. Consider those documents seriously and derive your own formula, which will be foolproof.
In most cases, industries manipulate accident records for some false prestige. Often, Safety Officers also form part of this type of documentation as they are to show loyalty. But privately, one can take an interest in this matter and collect data for a minimum period of three years to derive a clear picture.
At the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, the conditions were so bad. Even in 1931 when Heinrich brought out his book with his domino theory and the formula, it was not that different.
What could be the ratio of first aid cases, LTA, and fatal accidents with the conditions prevailing at that time may not suit now?
Let us be realistic. Let us put forth some effort and find new things instead of blindly worshipping whatever is written by others. Let us start questioning those and be effective at this age, I pray.
Regards,
KESAVA PILLAI
From India, Kollam
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It is very nice to see you back in the forum discussion with a great thought. I agree with your views and will definitely start recording the real figures of accidents happening in my organization to come to a conclusion after a few years. Perhaps after two or three years, when our forum is still active, I will return with my genuine figures for further discussion.
Even though there is a positive culture in our organization where everyone is encouraged to report accidents and near misses, the formal reporting figures are very low. There is a corporate-level circular promoting the reporting of incidents, clearly stating that there will be no punitive action against those who report. Despite this, the reporting rate remains very low. The situation really needs improvement.
Thank you once again for bringing forward such a great thought.
From India
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Even though there is a positive culture in our organization where everyone is encouraged to report accidents and near misses, the formal reporting figures are very low. There is a corporate-level circular promoting the reporting of incidents, clearly stating that there will be no punitive action against those who report. Despite this, the reporting rate remains very low. The situation really needs improvement.
Thank you once again for bringing forward such a great thought.
From India
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Dear Kesav Sir,
Welcome back, sir. In my organization, we have followed good record-keeping practices, but I have not taken the records seriously for the past 12 to 18 months. I protect my site documents/reports and then send them to the trash bin. Only now have you opened my eyes to the importance and value of reports and paperwork.
When I started my career in EHS, I didn't have any seniors and handled construction sites in India independently. The same thing happened overseas. Even now, I don't have any seniors, and if I have small queries, I have to wait for a long time. Sometimes, my clients or construction managers help solve them. Joining this forum has provided me with a lot of informative insights about our EHS field from our EHS members. I must say thanks to all EHS members, especially Mr. Kesav, Mr. Dipil, Mr. KVS, Mr. Abhay, Mr. Hansa, Mr. Firoz, etc. I am sure I will be back with an excellent chart within 2 or 3 years.
I know one thing clearly: a lot of our EHS members/seniors do not participate (due to time/busy schedules), but they are all watching us. Please come forward and share your experiences with us.
Thanks & Be safe
Raghu
“I am not totally waste/useless; I am used as a bad example.”
From United States, Fpo
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Welcome back, sir. In my organization, we have followed good record-keeping practices, but I have not taken the records seriously for the past 12 to 18 months. I protect my site documents/reports and then send them to the trash bin. Only now have you opened my eyes to the importance and value of reports and paperwork.
When I started my career in EHS, I didn't have any seniors and handled construction sites in India independently. The same thing happened overseas. Even now, I don't have any seniors, and if I have small queries, I have to wait for a long time. Sometimes, my clients or construction managers help solve them. Joining this forum has provided me with a lot of informative insights about our EHS field from our EHS members. I must say thanks to all EHS members, especially Mr. Kesav, Mr. Dipil, Mr. KVS, Mr. Abhay, Mr. Hansa, Mr. Firoz, etc. I am sure I will be back with an excellent chart within 2 or 3 years.
I know one thing clearly: a lot of our EHS members/seniors do not participate (due to time/busy schedules), but they are all watching us. Please come forward and share your experiences with us.
Thanks & Be safe
Raghu
“I am not totally waste/useless; I am used as a bad example.”
From United States, Fpo
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Wel-Come Back Sir , We really missed you . Hope we will get new topics to update our knowledge on various safety aspects in coming days. Thanks & Regards, Abhay
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Dear Mr. Kesava,
Nice to see you back. I was also unable to participate in the discussions due to official and personal issues. In our company, we have a separate tracking system in which a team is working globally. Also, in our KPI, these reports are included. In our organization, if we are not reporting, it affects our careers. I have the company data (only for official purposes) from 2009. But the problem is I cannot share the same in our forum due to internal restrictions.
Apart from this, we are also supposed to inform the local authorities, according to legal requirements, in case of any reportables (by God's grace, we have not had any such issues to date).
Question on Safety Statistics Board
When we are discussing these false reporting issues, what is the use of having the safety statistics board at the gate of industries?
Once again, thanks to Dipil for taking a lot of initiatives and Ragu - I have also learned many things from all of you through your valuable inputs. Thanks for that too.
Thanks and Regards,
From India, Delhi
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Nice to see you back. I was also unable to participate in the discussions due to official and personal issues. In our company, we have a separate tracking system in which a team is working globally. Also, in our KPI, these reports are included. In our organization, if we are not reporting, it affects our careers. I have the company data (only for official purposes) from 2009. But the problem is I cannot share the same in our forum due to internal restrictions.
Apart from this, we are also supposed to inform the local authorities, according to legal requirements, in case of any reportables (by God's grace, we have not had any such issues to date).
Question on Safety Statistics Board
When we are discussing these false reporting issues, what is the use of having the safety statistics board at the gate of industries?
Once again, thanks to Dipil for taking a lot of initiatives and Ragu - I have also learned many things from all of you through your valuable inputs. Thanks for that too.
Thanks and Regards,
From India, Delhi
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Dear Sir,
In our company, we categorize accidents as Reportable and Non-Reportable. Our Safety Officer has a separate role to report everything to our Plant Head in person, and the same is recorded in a notebook kept with the factory manager. We also prioritize near misses and all types of accidents, implementing preventive solutions such as adding sensors near machines and other measures to prevent similar accidents in the future.
I believe our accident tracking system and preventive actions in place are robust within our company.
Thanks & Regards,
Jana
From India, Jhajjar
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In our company, we categorize accidents as Reportable and Non-Reportable. Our Safety Officer has a separate role to report everything to our Plant Head in person, and the same is recorded in a notebook kept with the factory manager. We also prioritize near misses and all types of accidents, implementing preventive solutions such as adding sensors near machines and other measures to prevent similar accidents in the future.
I believe our accident tracking system and preventive actions in place are robust within our company.
Thanks & Regards,
Jana
From India, Jhajjar
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Dear Mr. Janarthanan,
It's good that you expressed satisfaction with your reporting system. Are you sure that it works well and is the best? Otherwise, is there no scope for improvement based on professionalism in your reporting system? Your reportable and non-reportable classification itself makes it controversial for me.
Reportable Cases and Statutory Requirements
Reportable cases are specified in your statute. According to applicable statutes, you may consider only reportable cases. But what criteria do you employ to categorize reportable and non-reportable cases in your internal system? Satisfying statutory authorities is one thing, and analyzing accidents to avoid recurrence is another. Am I not correct in stating that for a safetyman, every incident, irrespective of its outcome, is reportable?
Understanding Accident Outcomes
What makes an accident fatal, lost time, or a first aid case? Can you accept that the outcome of an accident can remain the same, yet the results differ?
There is more to it, and I am sure we can do better.
Regards,
Kesava Pillai
From India, Kollam
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It's good that you expressed satisfaction with your reporting system. Are you sure that it works well and is the best? Otherwise, is there no scope for improvement based on professionalism in your reporting system? Your reportable and non-reportable classification itself makes it controversial for me.
Reportable Cases and Statutory Requirements
Reportable cases are specified in your statute. According to applicable statutes, you may consider only reportable cases. But what criteria do you employ to categorize reportable and non-reportable cases in your internal system? Satisfying statutory authorities is one thing, and analyzing accidents to avoid recurrence is another. Am I not correct in stating that for a safetyman, every incident, irrespective of its outcome, is reportable?
Understanding Accident Outcomes
What makes an accident fatal, lost time, or a first aid case? Can you accept that the outcome of an accident can remain the same, yet the results differ?
There is more to it, and I am sure we can do better.
Regards,
Kesava Pillai
From India, Kollam
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In your post, you have mentioned the senior... In my view, it's good to some extent, but in another way, getting an opportunity to self-manage will help us improve our skills and implement things as per our concept. If you have a senior who has no sharing mentality, then it's of no use. If one has a senior like Keshav Pillai, who has perfect knowledge and a sharing mentality, then it counts a lot. Otherwise, being alone is well and good. My personal life experience is what I said.
Influence of Seniors on Learning
After coming into contact with seniors like you through this forum, my entire learning and behavior have changed a lot. Proudly, I debate technical details with people in my organization. A few examples are the use of 24 volts in a confined space, which is more dangerous, AC or DC, LPG or DA, health hazards in an oxygen-enriched atmosphere, etc. My heartiest thanks to you, and it's so lucky to be in touch through this forum, even though I didn't get a chance to work under a boss like you.
Keep on guiding us.
From India
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Influence of Seniors on Learning
After coming into contact with seniors like you through this forum, my entire learning and behavior have changed a lot. Proudly, I debate technical details with people in my organization. A few examples are the use of 24 volts in a confined space, which is more dangerous, AC or DC, LPG or DA, health hazards in an oxygen-enriched atmosphere, etc. My heartiest thanks to you, and it's so lucky to be in touch through this forum, even though I didn't get a chance to work under a boss like you.
Keep on guiding us.
From India
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