Employee Transition and PF Contribution Queries
An employee joins an organization, let's say A, works for a month, leaves, and joins another organization, let's say B. After working there for a week, the employee rejoins A.
In November, the employee left A, joined B, and then rejoined A. Organization A adjusted this internally by showing the period as leave and provided a full month's salary for November, deducting and depositing the PF accordingly. The employee also received a salary for December from A, with PF deductions and deposits made for that month as well. Now, organization B wants to pay the salary for the week the employee worked with them in November and will deduct and deposit the PF for those 7 days to the same UAN.
Queries Regarding PF and Employment Records
1. Can organization B link the Establishment code with the employee's UAN now in January to provide PF for 7 days in November? Note that A has already deposited two more ECRs—one for November and one for December. B hasn't linked it yet. Can they do it now? If yes, B would need to backdate the record, showing the employee joined in November, even though it is now January. Is this possible given the employee's continuous employment with A?
2. If B can link it even now, how will A become aware of this?
Regards,
[Username]
From India, Kolkata
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1An employee joins an organization, let's say A, works for a month, leaves, and joins another organization, let's say B. After working there for a week, the employee rejoins A.
In November, the employee left A, joined B, and then rejoined A. Organization A adjusted this internally by showing the period as leave and provided a full month's salary for November, deducting and depositing the PF accordingly. The employee also received a salary for December from A, with PF deductions and deposits made for that month as well. Now, organization B wants to pay the salary for the week the employee worked with them in November and will deduct and deposit the PF for those 7 days to the same UAN.
Queries Regarding PF and Employment Records
1. Can organization B link the Establishment code with the employee's UAN now in January to provide PF for 7 days in November? Note that A has already deposited two more ECRs—one for November and one for December. B hasn't linked it yet. Can they do it now? If yes, B would need to backdate the record, showing the employee joined in November, even though it is now January. Is this possible given the employee's continuous employment with A?
2. If B can link it even now, how will A become aware of this?
Regards,
[Username]
From India, Kolkata
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While making frequent changes of employers, one must ensure that his account (UAN) is fully KYC compliant; otherwise, the department will treat each joining as a separate identity and will not allow transfer or clubbing.
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The account that we have found out is KYC compliant. But as stated above, is this possible? Can B link it now backdated (showing the date of joining in November) when the guy is in continuous employment with A? And if yes, they can, then will A know about that?
Looking forward to having some ideas from you.
From India, Kolkata
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Looking forward to having some ideas from you.
From India, Kolkata
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As soon as the person joins an establishment, he or she has to link their UAN with the present establishment. This is the thumb rule of the new system. If the second employer adds the person in January 2017, then he will get shifted to the second employer on the seeding day, with effect from the date displayed as DOJ.
Nov ECR was the old system, and if the person worked in November, then a separate unique UAN was already generated. Just ask them to make that second UAN KYC compliant.
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Nov ECR was the old system, and if the person worked in November, then a separate unique UAN was already generated. Just ask them to make that second UAN KYC compliant.
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Understanding UAN Linking and PF Contributions
I believe there might be a misunderstanding regarding my previous explanation. Company A has already linked the PF account number (old system) with the UAN provided by the employee at the time of joining in October. They have deposited amounts for October, November, and December.
Company B, where the employee worked for 7 days in November, has not linked it yet due to some F&F issues. Now that the issue is resolved, they are proceeding with F&F and linking with the UAN.
As per my understanding, you mentioned that Company B can link it backdated. However, there is only one UAN involved. For November, Company A has already submitted the ECR, and Company B is also planning to link it and upload the ECR for the same month using the same UAN.
Once Company B links it effective November, how will Company A be informed of this change? How will Company A provide the next month's ECR since the employee is still employed with Company A, but the UAN will show employment with Company B?
Kindly suggest.
Regards
From India, Kolkata
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I believe there might be a misunderstanding regarding my previous explanation. Company A has already linked the PF account number (old system) with the UAN provided by the employee at the time of joining in October. They have deposited amounts for October, November, and December.
Company B, where the employee worked for 7 days in November, has not linked it yet due to some F&F issues. Now that the issue is resolved, they are proceeding with F&F and linking with the UAN.
As per my understanding, you mentioned that Company B can link it backdated. However, there is only one UAN involved. For November, Company A has already submitted the ECR, and Company B is also planning to link it and upload the ECR for the same month using the same UAN.
Once Company B links it effective November, how will Company A be informed of this change? How will Company A provide the next month's ECR since the employee is still employed with Company A, but the UAN will show employment with Company B?
Kindly suggest.
Regards
From India, Kolkata
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November payment was due by 15th December 2016, and the old portal was operational until 17th December at 18:30 hrs. If the system is followed properly, the employee has obtained a new UAN for Company B under the present UAN-based system within ECR 2.0. Linking on the payment day is not permitted; it will simply detach the employee from the current company.
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Linking UAN and ECR Upload Process
In the old system, we had to upload the ECR first before generating a new UAN or linking it with an existing one. Therefore, when the F&F was not finalized, we did not link it in November or until the 15th of December. We planned to link and deposit it once the F&F issue was resolved.
Now, as employees from company B, we are linking it effective from November since the F&F has been resolved, and the UAN remains the same. Once we link it, will the first employment (A) automatically detach? And starting from the next month, will A no longer be able to upload the ECR for that employee?
From India, Kolkata
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In the old system, we had to upload the ECR first before generating a new UAN or linking it with an existing one. Therefore, when the F&F was not finalized, we did not link it in November or until the 15th of December. We planned to link and deposit it once the F&F issue was resolved.
Now, as employees from company B, we are linking it effective from November since the F&F has been resolved, and the UAN remains the same. Once we link it, will the first employment (A) automatically detach? And starting from the next month, will A no longer be able to upload the ECR for that employee?
From India, Kolkata
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Simply reply, was the contribution paid in the old system ECR or not? If yes, then there is a new UAN generated, and the amount of that new UAN can be transferred to the old one after some time.
If NO, then linking of Nov employee in January will simply withdraw him from his present establishment.
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If NO, then linking of Nov employee in January will simply withdraw him from his present establishment.
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F&F settlement has no relation with ESIC/EPF contributions. On the close of the last day of the month, the salary/wages are payable to the employee, and contributions become due. It does not matter if the employee never came to get his salary, disappeared, or came after a few months. The employer, however, has to submit the contributions timely, ignoring all these facts.
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No, sir, the contribution was not paid in the old system in November. We are depositing it now after linking.
One more question: when his present employment gets detached, are we in trouble from EPFO perspective since we were supposed to do this job by 15th December only?
From India, Kolkata
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One more question: when his present employment gets detached, are we in trouble from EPFO perspective since we were supposed to do this job by 15th December only?
From India, Kolkata
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Now it is not possible to deposit because just linking his old UAN will remove him from his present establishment, and duplicate UAN generation will drag him into trouble because all data is needed upfront under the new system. Try to settle it outside of EPFO preview.
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Sir, the problem is since he didn't cooperate with his friends and family to give him a lesson, the company will go ahead and link it with UAN now so that his present establishment gets detached. I'm the one who handles EPF-related jobs. I just hope this will not drag me or the company into some kind of legal problem.
Anyway, thanks for your suggestions and advice.
From India, Kolkata
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Anyway, thanks for your suggestions and advice.
From India, Kolkata
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Invite the pinch. Link him for November one-week payment, and in turn, if the employee claims that he was linked to the establishment on 19/01/2017, that means he was in service on 19/01/17, so he is liable to get salary and other benefits which are unpaid. On 19/01/2017, the linking activity by the management of B itself is enough evidence to establish his presence. Linking on 19/01/2017 means you cannot make an exit entry before 19/01/2017.
Balance is your choice.
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Balance is your choice.
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Understanding UAN Linking and Employment Dates
If that is the case, then he joined us on the 9th of November and left on the 16th of November. Even if we followed the proper process and uploaded his ECR and linked it with his existing UAN before the 15th of December, we had to do it between the 1st and the 15th of November (after uploading ECR).
The linking could only take place in December, but he left on the 16th of November and joined Company A on the 28th of November. How could we then show his last working day in our organization as the 16th of November when we are linking it on, let's say, the 6th of December?
What I meant to say is, suppose we linked his UAN with the PF number on the 6th of December after uploading ECR, how could we show his last working day as the 16th of November?
Here, the case is the same—we link on the 19th of January and show his last working day as the 16th of November.
Aren't both cases the same?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
On a different note, I'm gaining a different perspective from you regarding EPF. I had never thought it could be so dynamic.
Thanks once again for your guidance.
From India, Kolkata
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If that is the case, then he joined us on the 9th of November and left on the 16th of November. Even if we followed the proper process and uploaded his ECR and linked it with his existing UAN before the 15th of December, we had to do it between the 1st and the 15th of November (after uploading ECR).
The linking could only take place in December, but he left on the 16th of November and joined Company A on the 28th of November. How could we then show his last working day in our organization as the 16th of November when we are linking it on, let's say, the 6th of December?
What I meant to say is, suppose we linked his UAN with the PF number on the 6th of December after uploading ECR, how could we show his last working day as the 16th of November?
Here, the case is the same—we link on the 19th of January and show his last working day as the 16th of November.
Aren't both cases the same?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
On a different note, I'm gaining a different perspective from you regarding EPF. I had never thought it could be so dynamic.
Thanks once again for your guidance.
From India, Kolkata
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Understanding EPF Linking and Employment Records
And one more point, sir. Linking him on 6th December doesn't establish his presence on that day. We could have easily said that he had left on 16th November, but we are uploading ECR and linking it with UAN. So, I guess the case is the same here also. He left earlier, but we are linking now, and after linking, we will show his last working day as 16th November.
I want to understand from you if this is possible in the first case, why it's not possible in the second case? Perhaps understanding from you will clear my misconceptions about EPF.
Regards
From India, Kolkata
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And one more point, sir. Linking him on 6th December doesn't establish his presence on that day. We could have easily said that he had left on 16th November, but we are uploading ECR and linking it with UAN. So, I guess the case is the same here also. He left earlier, but we are linking now, and after linking, we will show his last working day as 16th November.
I want to understand from you if this is possible in the first case, why it's not possible in the second case? Perhaps understanding from you will clear my misconceptions about EPF.
Regards
From India, Kolkata
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Here is a clear solution if you would like to apply it.
Just make a new UAN with any one of the valid documents (a bank account is enough, and a mobile number). Ensure that the name, DOB, and father's name are correct. Pay the amount and complete the process, stating that the employee did not submit Form 11, hence the employer was unaware of the previous employment.
If the employee wishes to claim this, then they must do so through One Employee One PF at One Employee One PF.
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Just make a new UAN with any one of the valid documents (a bank account is enough, and a mobile number). Ensure that the name, DOB, and father's name are correct. Pay the amount and complete the process, stating that the employee did not submit Form 11, hence the employer was unaware of the previous employment.
If the employee wishes to claim this, then they must do so through One Employee One PF at One Employee One PF.
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Allotment of UAN - EPF.pdf