I am working as an HR Manager for a typesetting company.
The relieving policy of our organization is that the employee should give a 30-day notice period before quitting. This has also been clearly mentioned in their appointment order.
One particular employee has quit the organization and joined our competitor; he has not given any notice period. He just submitted the resignation letter and left. Now the issue is that he has approached us back for the transfer of PF and other dues. For this, the management has asked him to serve the notice period or pay off his one-month salary and get all the dues cleared. However, we are receiving continuous calls from the PF office for the transfer of the PF account. The candidate has also signed an 18-month bond.
I have the following queries:
1) Can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge?
2) Can any legal action be taken against the candidate?
3) What are the other methods to retain the candidates?
Seniors, kindly help me to solve the situation. It's urgent, please help.
From India, Madras
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The relieving policy of our organization is that the employee should give a 30-day notice period before quitting. This has also been clearly mentioned in their appointment order.
One particular employee has quit the organization and joined our competitor; he has not given any notice period. He just submitted the resignation letter and left. Now the issue is that he has approached us back for the transfer of PF and other dues. For this, the management has asked him to serve the notice period or pay off his one-month salary and get all the dues cleared. However, we are receiving continuous calls from the PF office for the transfer of the PF account. The candidate has also signed an 18-month bond.
I have the following queries:
1) Can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge?
2) Can any legal action be taken against the candidate?
3) What are the other methods to retain the candidates?
Seniors, kindly help me to solve the situation. It's urgent, please help.
From India, Madras
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Dont submit his Transfer Form to PF office, once he cleared the notice period and dues then you can transfer his pf amout. Ask him to pay one month notice.
From India
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10From India
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The transfer form has been submitted from the competitors company. We have not submitted any form
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hi all,
You have asked three questions:
1) Can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge?
2) Can any legal action be taken against the candidate?
3) What are the other methods to retain the candidates?
Ans 1: Yes, PF can also be transferred without the knowledge of the previous employer. I think he must know his PF number, and the PF department already has all his details. If you don't do this, there are other ways also for PF transfer.
Ans 2: If you have the appointment letter duly signed by the candidate, and the letter also contains the terms related to this, yes, you can send him a legal notice regarding payments.
By the way, I want to know if his full and final settlement is done, and the last salary was paid.
3) What are the other methods to retain the candidates?
Ans 3: The other method to retain an employee is to go in-depth, to understand why he left. If it's because of higher compensation, you can't do anything. If it's any other reason, we can discuss. Firstly, search for the reason for leaving.
From China
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You have asked three questions:
1) Can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge?
2) Can any legal action be taken against the candidate?
3) What are the other methods to retain the candidates?
Ans 1: Yes, PF can also be transferred without the knowledge of the previous employer. I think he must know his PF number, and the PF department already has all his details. If you don't do this, there are other ways also for PF transfer.
Ans 2: If you have the appointment letter duly signed by the candidate, and the letter also contains the terms related to this, yes, you can send him a legal notice regarding payments.
By the way, I want to know if his full and final settlement is done, and the last salary was paid.
3) What are the other methods to retain the candidates?
Ans 3: The other method to retain an employee is to go in-depth, to understand why he left. If it's because of higher compensation, you can't do anything. If it's any other reason, we can discuss. Firstly, search for the reason for leaving.
From China
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Hi all,
1. The PF amount cannot be withheld for the reasons of dues from the employee towards 1-month notice pay.
2. The PF cannot be decreed by any court of law against any liability payments.
3. For getting back the 1-month notice pay, you can adjust it against his due payments if any, or else issue him a legal notice and a copy of the same to his present employer and demand legally the 1-month notice pay.
4. Retaining a candidate for the reason of 1-month pay is not a positive step, as he is no longer interested in the organization and he can reveal the company's secrets and strategies.
5. Lead him to civil court or a labor court for defaulting on the code of conduct of the appointment letter terms.
6. Being an HR professional, it is your duty and not any personal revenge or anything else, so no personal touch should make you stand still.
Mohan Rao
Manager HR
From India, Visakhapatnam
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1. The PF amount cannot be withheld for the reasons of dues from the employee towards 1-month notice pay.
2. The PF cannot be decreed by any court of law against any liability payments.
3. For getting back the 1-month notice pay, you can adjust it against his due payments if any, or else issue him a legal notice and a copy of the same to his present employer and demand legally the 1-month notice pay.
4. Retaining a candidate for the reason of 1-month pay is not a positive step, as he is no longer interested in the organization and he can reveal the company's secrets and strategies.
5. Lead him to civil court or a labor court for defaulting on the code of conduct of the appointment letter terms.
6. Being an HR professional, it is your duty and not any personal revenge or anything else, so no personal touch should make you stand still.
Mohan Rao
Manager HR
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Hi RSK,
In a professional setting, I don't believe we need to concern ourselves with curses or other similar matters. The question was not about well-wishes or curses, but rather about adhering to the organization's policies.
From India, Madras
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In a professional setting, I don't believe we need to concern ourselves with curses or other similar matters. The question was not about well-wishes or curses, but rather about adhering to the organization's policies.
From India, Madras
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Hi Mohan Rao,
The employee has quit only after receiving his salary. We are not trying to retain the candidate for the pay reason. The candidate has been in a senior position. He should have at least handed over his responsibilities to some other person.
From India, Madras
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The employee has quit only after receiving his salary. We are not trying to retain the candidate for the pay reason. The candidate has been in a senior position. He should have at least handed over his responsibilities to some other person.
From India, Madras
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Hi Dhanumathy,
The only option left is to proceed legally against such staff with a copy of a legal notice to the present employer. The present employer should understand the pain you are feeling currently, as they may experience a similar situation in the future.
You can take him to court; without a proper relieving letter from your end, the present employer cannot continue his services when informed about your problems.
Mohan Rao Manager HR
From India, Visakhapatnam
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The only option left is to proceed legally against such staff with a copy of a legal notice to the present employer. The present employer should understand the pain you are feeling currently, as they may experience a similar situation in the future.
You can take him to court; without a proper relieving letter from your end, the present employer cannot continue his services when informed about your problems.
Mohan Rao Manager HR
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Hi all,
a) PF can be transferred without the knowledge of the employer unless it is held by the employee's PF trust.
On legal action, following two things must be noted:
A) Though there is a bond, it is not tenable in the eyes of the law. In many cases, the high courts and the Supreme Court have held that pressuring a person to continue in service based on the bond amounts to slavery and is against the right/freedom of work.
b) However, if there is a clause of claim of liquidated damages (if this person has been sent for very specialized training/seminars/short-term course sponsored by your company), then you can initiate legal action for the recovery of these.
c) For the recovery of the notice period, you may also issue a notice to him and his present employer.
d) You can also directly write to his present employer mentioning that since the person has not been officially relieved from you, he continues to be in your employment, and such working would amount to double employment. Double employment is a punishable offense.
Kind regards,
Dayanand L Guddin
SR. Head - HR
Bobst India
From Singapore, Singapore
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a) PF can be transferred without the knowledge of the employer unless it is held by the employee's PF trust.
On legal action, following two things must be noted:
A) Though there is a bond, it is not tenable in the eyes of the law. In many cases, the high courts and the Supreme Court have held that pressuring a person to continue in service based on the bond amounts to slavery and is against the right/freedom of work.
b) However, if there is a clause of claim of liquidated damages (if this person has been sent for very specialized training/seminars/short-term course sponsored by your company), then you can initiate legal action for the recovery of these.
c) For the recovery of the notice period, you may also issue a notice to him and his present employer.
d) You can also directly write to his present employer mentioning that since the person has not been officially relieved from you, he continues to be in your employment, and such working would amount to double employment. Double employment is a punishable offense.
Kind regards,
Dayanand L Guddin
SR. Head - HR
Bobst India
From Singapore, Singapore
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Dear All,
As per the PF Act, PF cannot be attached under any circumstances, even if the employee has misappropriated the company's money. You cannot stop the transfer of PF for the reason that he has not served during the notice period. Furthermore, PF cannot be transferred without the knowledge of the previous employer because the previous employer has to sign Form 13 authorizing the transfer to the new account, which is why the PF office is writing to you.
Secondly, you can always take legal action against him for the violation of terms and conditions agreed upon earlier. However, the best course of action would be to adjust his notice period salary against dues (such as bonus, LTA, leave encashment, etc.) other than PF.
From India, Calcutta
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As per the PF Act, PF cannot be attached under any circumstances, even if the employee has misappropriated the company's money. You cannot stop the transfer of PF for the reason that he has not served during the notice period. Furthermore, PF cannot be transferred without the knowledge of the previous employer because the previous employer has to sign Form 13 authorizing the transfer to the new account, which is why the PF office is writing to you.
Secondly, you can always take legal action against him for the violation of terms and conditions agreed upon earlier. However, the best course of action would be to adjust his notice period salary against dues (such as bonus, LTA, leave encashment, etc.) other than PF.
From India, Calcutta
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Dear,
1. Unless your PF fund is from your own trust, you don't have the right to stop the PF transfer.
2. You can take legal action against the employee by sending a notice to both the employee and employer.
3. Notify the current organization about the employee.
In most corporate settings, a relieving letter from a previous organization is important. If this is mandatory, a particular employee will approach you. At that time, you can ask him to complete his Full and Final settlement.
As an HR professional, there should be no revenge attitude - serve the organization as per policy.
From India, Madras
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1. Unless your PF fund is from your own trust, you don't have the right to stop the PF transfer.
2. You can take legal action against the employee by sending a notice to both the employee and employer.
3. Notify the current organization about the employee.
In most corporate settings, a relieving letter from a previous organization is important. If this is mandatory, a particular employee will approach you. At that time, you can ask him to complete his Full and Final settlement.
As an HR professional, there should be no revenge attitude - serve the organization as per policy.
From India, Madras
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Transfer of EPF can be done without the knowledge of the previous employer. Form 13 for the transfer of EPF account is to be submitted to the current employer only. He will sign and forward it to the RPFC concerned. Hence, the previous employer does not come into the picture at all unless it is an exempted EPF.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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You have the option in Form 10 "Certified that the member mentioned at serial No. _____ Shri _____________ was dismissed for serious and willful misconduct. I recommend that the Employer's contribution for ____________ should be forfeited from the account in the fund. A copy of the order of dismissal is enclosed."
You can follow this example to educate others on how to handle such situations.
From India, Pondicherry
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You can follow this example to educate others on how to handle such situations.
From India, Pondicherry
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Dear all,
I want to add one more point here: the Provident Fund cannot be withheld, but you can delay it. Please note the points made by Mr. KRM Rao, which are quite right. If you do not relieve him from services in the muster roll, he will not be able to receive the P.F. dues. If someone is on the roll of a previous company, they cannot transfer their P.F. accumulations until the report in Form 10 is sent to the P.F. office, mentioning that they have resigned from services with the previous employer.
SHISH RAM UNIYAL
09811681660
From India, New Delhi
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I want to add one more point here: the Provident Fund cannot be withheld, but you can delay it. Please note the points made by Mr. KRM Rao, which are quite right. If you do not relieve him from services in the muster roll, he will not be able to receive the P.F. dues. If someone is on the roll of a previous company, they cannot transfer their P.F. accumulations until the report in Form 10 is sent to the P.F. office, mentioning that they have resigned from services with the previous employer.
SHISH RAM UNIYAL
09811681660
From India, New Delhi
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Dear All,
Let me clarify once again. After intimation, if the employer does not send Form 13, then the PF commissioner can definitely transfer the amount. If the contribution is for less than 6 months, then even Form 13 is not mandatory.
Kind regards,
Dayanand L. Guddin
From Singapore, Singapore
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Let me clarify once again. After intimation, if the employer does not send Form 13, then the PF commissioner can definitely transfer the amount. If the contribution is for less than 6 months, then even Form 13 is not mandatory.
Kind regards,
Dayanand L. Guddin
From Singapore, Singapore
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Transfer of PF accumulation from one employer to another is provided under the PF Act & Scheme, and the same is effected through Form No. 13 under the PF Act. The present employer submits one copy of Form No. 13 to PF authorities directly, and another copy is sent to the previous employer who, in turn, is supposed to verify the details mentioned in the form and authenticate it by returning it to PF authorities. This is a statutory requirement under the scheme, and one has to attend to it; otherwise, PF authorities may take appropriate action against the employer for not following the rules under the scheme.
A bond is not legally valid for continuation in employment. For providing training or enhancing the knowledge of the employee, even if an employer has incurred any expenses, the employer cannot legally enter into such a bond except for liquidated damages.
For the retention of employees, you will have to find the reasons for leaving the services.
From India, Mumbai
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A bond is not legally valid for continuation in employment. For providing training or enhancing the knowledge of the employee, even if an employer has incurred any expenses, the employer cannot legally enter into such a bond except for liquidated damages.
For the retention of employees, you will have to find the reasons for leaving the services.
From India, Mumbai
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Mr. Dayanand L Guddin has given absolute professional advice, and I recommend the same to be followed if management is willing to make the outlaw guy realize the agony of such behavior, especially when he is holding a position of responsibility in the company. I hope the matter can be closed now.
S. Wadhwa
From India, New Delhi
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S. Wadhwa
From India, New Delhi
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hi, for critical position,you can ask them sign NDA,thru which you can make the employee legally liable. Regards wesly
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hi all,
Firstly, PF cannot be held for any reason. Secondly, PF cannot be transferred without the knowledge of the previous employer because the employer has to sign Form 13. You can send a legal notice to the former employee.
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Firstly, PF cannot be held for any reason. Secondly, PF cannot be transferred without the knowledge of the previous employer because the employer has to sign Form 13. You can send a legal notice to the former employee.
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Hi all,
1. The employer must submit a return of members leaving service during the month in Form 10.
2. In your case, the employee had resigned, left service, and joined another organization, continuing to be a PF member with a new PF A/c No.
3. As per Form 13 (Revised), he can get the PF accumulated amount transferred without the previous employer's signature and transferred to the new PF A/c, as he has already submitted Form 2, i.e., declaration form.
4. Whether the employer had accepted his resignation or not stands as a dispute between the employer and the employee who left. For this reason, he cannot withhold the submission of Form 10, showing the facts of the employee leaving service. Suppression of facts is illegal as per the law.
5. If the employee had not submitted his one-month notice, nor paid one month notice pay to the employer as per the terms of the appointment order, it stands as a dispute between the parties, and the employer can lodge a legal notice and lead the employee to court for seeking justice and damages.
6. Hence, PF transfer cannot be withheld or stopped from transferring to the new A/c of the employee who left his service.
Mohan Rao Manager HR
From India, Visakhapatnam
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1. The employer must submit a return of members leaving service during the month in Form 10.
2. In your case, the employee had resigned, left service, and joined another organization, continuing to be a PF member with a new PF A/c No.
3. As per Form 13 (Revised), he can get the PF accumulated amount transferred without the previous employer's signature and transferred to the new PF A/c, as he has already submitted Form 2, i.e., declaration form.
4. Whether the employer had accepted his resignation or not stands as a dispute between the employer and the employee who left. For this reason, he cannot withhold the submission of Form 10, showing the facts of the employee leaving service. Suppression of facts is illegal as per the law.
5. If the employee had not submitted his one-month notice, nor paid one month notice pay to the employer as per the terms of the appointment order, it stands as a dispute between the parties, and the employer can lodge a legal notice and lead the employee to court for seeking justice and damages.
6. Hence, PF transfer cannot be withheld or stopped from transferring to the new A/c of the employee who left his service.
Mohan Rao Manager HR
From India, Visakhapatnam
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PF account can't be transferred, but the amount has been transferred. It is obligatory for the company to sign all the forms relating to employees.
As you mentioned about the bond, most companies are filling one-sided bonds which are not in accordance with the law. You can't take any action against that employee.
Regards, Amit
From India, Pilani
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As you mentioned about the bond, most companies are filling one-sided bonds which are not in accordance with the law. You can't take any action against that employee.
Regards, Amit
From India, Pilani
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i agree with mahesh and Ranjit that the best solution would be hr get in touch with the employee for discussion. biju thomas
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge?
My friend has been working in the BPO service industry for 3 years as an HR executive. He committed fraud involving the company's money. He admitted in front of the company's management that he had committed fraud amounting to Rs. 25,000. He expressed his willingness to repay the amount. The management decided to accept his resignation along with a consent letter regarding the mentioned amount. They instructed him to resign immediately with the consent letter stating the fraud of Rs. 25,000. The next day, he submitted nearly Rs. 20,000, with the balance to be adjusted against his current month's salary (for 20 days) and bonus amount. The management assured him of providing a relieving letter, experience letter, and releasing his PF funds after some days. However, the management is now unresponsive after several attempts to contact them. He did not have a copy of his resignation and consent letter.
My question is: can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge? If yes, what is the procedure, as the employer is unlikely to sign Form 19 and 10C.
From India, Mumbai
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My friend has been working in the BPO service industry for 3 years as an HR executive. He committed fraud involving the company's money. He admitted in front of the company's management that he had committed fraud amounting to Rs. 25,000. He expressed his willingness to repay the amount. The management decided to accept his resignation along with a consent letter regarding the mentioned amount. They instructed him to resign immediately with the consent letter stating the fraud of Rs. 25,000. The next day, he submitted nearly Rs. 20,000, with the balance to be adjusted against his current month's salary (for 20 days) and bonus amount. The management assured him of providing a relieving letter, experience letter, and releasing his PF funds after some days. However, the management is now unresponsive after several attempts to contact them. He did not have a copy of his resignation and consent letter.
My question is: can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge? If yes, what is the procedure, as the employer is unlikely to sign Form 19 and 10C.
From India, Mumbai
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Can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge?
My friend has been working in the BPO service industry for 3 years as an HR executive. He committed fraud involving the company's money. He admitted to the management that he had committed a fraud of Rs. 25,000. He agreed to repay this amount. The management decided to accept his resignation and a consent letter for the mentioned amount. They instructed him to resign immediately with the consent letter stating the fraud amount. The next day, he submitted nearly Rs. 20,000, and the remaining amount was to be adjusted against his current month's salary (20 days) and bonus. The management assured him that they would provide a relieving letter, experience letter, and release his PF funds after some time. However, despite numerous attempts to contact them, the management has not responded. He did not keep a copy of the resignation and consent letter.
My question is, can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge? If yes, what is the procedure, as the employer is unlikely to sign Form 19 and 10C.
From India, Mumbai
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My friend has been working in the BPO service industry for 3 years as an HR executive. He committed fraud involving the company's money. He admitted to the management that he had committed a fraud of Rs. 25,000. He agreed to repay this amount. The management decided to accept his resignation and a consent letter for the mentioned amount. They instructed him to resign immediately with the consent letter stating the fraud amount. The next day, he submitted nearly Rs. 20,000, and the remaining amount was to be adjusted against his current month's salary (20 days) and bonus. The management assured him that they would provide a relieving letter, experience letter, and release his PF funds after some time. However, despite numerous attempts to contact them, the management has not responded. He did not keep a copy of the resignation and consent letter.
My question is, can the PF account be transferred without the previous employer's knowledge? If yes, what is the procedure, as the employer is unlikely to sign Form 19 and 10C.
From India, Mumbai
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Legal Clarification on PF Contribution Reduction & Transfer of Ownership & Management.pdf
Steps to transfer PF amount.jpg