Dear All,
I am working as an HR Manager in a large educational group. In one of our schools, one of the drivers is creating unrest in the branch. He has been working in our school for the past five years. Although he has engaged in many acts of indiscipline, none have been documented, and he has only received verbal warnings and been let off freely on previous occasions. Currently, his acts of indiscipline have reached a maximum, and he is also influencing eight other drivers. What is the best solution for this problem? We have not provided any appointment letters. Since it is a school, we do not have standing orders. However, as a driver, he is covered under the Motor Transport Workers Act. Please advise; the problem is very serious and urgent.
Regards,
Naga Praveen
From India, Hyderabad
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14I am working as an HR Manager in a large educational group. In one of our schools, one of the drivers is creating unrest in the branch. He has been working in our school for the past five years. Although he has engaged in many acts of indiscipline, none have been documented, and he has only received verbal warnings and been let off freely on previous occasions. Currently, his acts of indiscipline have reached a maximum, and he is also influencing eight other drivers. What is the best solution for this problem? We have not provided any appointment letters. Since it is a school, we do not have standing orders. However, as a driver, he is covered under the Motor Transport Workers Act. Please advise; the problem is very serious and urgent.
Regards,
Naga Praveen
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Praveen, Terminate him. Go by legal procedures, dismiss him on the basis of misconduct. Help the needy....
From India, Mangaluru
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From India, Mangaluru
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Dear Praveen,
Never directly terminate any employee who is in the workmen category. Please follow the principle of natural justice and conduct a domestic inquiry. Terminate only if it is proved that he has committed serious misconduct. Always ensure you create written evidence when handling disciplinary actions against any workmen.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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Never directly terminate any employee who is in the workmen category. Please follow the principle of natural justice and conduct a domestic inquiry. Terminate only if it is proved that he has committed serious misconduct. Always ensure you create written evidence when handling disciplinary actions against any workmen.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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Dear Nagapraveen ji,
As you are aware, if the certified Standing Orders are not in place, Model Standing Orders will be applicable. Please proceed in accordance with the Industrial Employment Standing Orders Act. Your situation is very sensitive, so handle it carefully. Bus drivers are generally very close to the owner of the School Management. Has your management appointed drivers through outsourcing?
Regards,
PBS KUMAR
From India, Kakinada
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As you are aware, if the certified Standing Orders are not in place, Model Standing Orders will be applicable. Please proceed in accordance with the Industrial Employment Standing Orders Act. Your situation is very sensitive, so handle it carefully. Bus drivers are generally very close to the owner of the School Management. Has your management appointed drivers through outsourcing?
Regards,
PBS KUMAR
From India, Kakinada
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My $0.02.
Start documenting misconduct - specific instances, damage caused by his actions, warnings given - be as objective as possible with the safety of the school and children in mind. While you are at it, also create a standard safety measures policy and a code of conduct. Consult an attorney specialized in labor laws (since he is covered under the law, he is probably a member of some union - it could get tricky and very sticky). Follow the procedure laid by the law and document everything you do to prepare grounds for termination. Terminate!
From United States, Woodinville
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Start documenting misconduct - specific instances, damage caused by his actions, warnings given - be as objective as possible with the safety of the school and children in mind. While you are at it, also create a standard safety measures policy and a code of conduct. Consult an attorney specialized in labor laws (since he is covered under the law, he is probably a member of some union - it could get tricky and very sticky). Follow the procedure laid by the law and document everything you do to prepare grounds for termination. Terminate!
From United States, Woodinville
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Dear Naga,
Please do not wait for any mishappening to happen and throw this driver out. You, I, or the law have no binding to safeguard such person/s. Send a letter to the transport authority with a copy to the police station stating proper reasons. Pay him one month's salary through a cheque and get rid of him so that this fellow may not be able to drag you to court.
The so-called paperwork attitude has caused the death of 5 girls in Delhi yesterday. Apart from paperwork, we have a greater responsibility towards society.
Rupendra Chahar
From India, Gurgaon
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Please do not wait for any mishappening to happen and throw this driver out. You, I, or the law have no binding to safeguard such person/s. Send a letter to the transport authority with a copy to the police station stating proper reasons. Pay him one month's salary through a cheque and get rid of him so that this fellow may not be able to drag you to court.
The so-called paperwork attitude has caused the death of 5 girls in Delhi yesterday. Apart from paperwork, we have a greater responsibility towards society.
Rupendra Chahar
From India, Gurgaon
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To handle this situation effectively, consider terminating the individual, but ensure you have proper documentation to support your decision. Review past incidents and provide specific dates. If there is a union involved, it is crucial to inform them about the dismissal, emphasizing that it is due to the employee's misconduct. It is advisable to have issued a charge sheet for previous infractions. This approach could have prompted the employee to improve their behavior upon realizing their actions were being documented. In extreme cases, involving law enforcement is an option, but provoking the individual to misbehave is not recommended. Instead, if necessary, gather evidence such as video recordings to support your case in court.
Remember, challenging circumstances may require tough decisions, but it is essential to handle them with professionalism and adherence to proper procedures.
From India, Madras
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Remember, challenging circumstances may require tough decisions, but it is essential to handle them with professionalism and adherence to proper procedures.
From India, Madras
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Suggestions given by Som Gollkota are very correct.
1. Please do NOT JUST TERMINATE the services of the truant Driver as suggested by some members. It would be a very wise move.
2. Like suggested by Som, at the drop of a hat issue a letter to the Driver, highlighting his current misconduct/misdeeds. In the letter, you can also state: "that in the past also you had committed similar acts of misconduct for which you have been warned verbally".
Once you have built up his record of disorderly conduct, and if and when he commits any serious act of misconduct:
1. Immediately suspend him.
2. Issue a Charge Sheet.
3. Hold a Domestic Enquiry.
4. Based on the findings of the EO, you may decide to dismiss him from service.
For any clarifications, please feel free to contact me.
Best Wishes, Vasant Nair HR Advisor 09717726667 vasantnair10@gmail.com
From India, Mumbai
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1. Please do NOT JUST TERMINATE the services of the truant Driver as suggested by some members. It would be a very wise move.
2. Like suggested by Som, at the drop of a hat issue a letter to the Driver, highlighting his current misconduct/misdeeds. In the letter, you can also state: "that in the past also you had committed similar acts of misconduct for which you have been warned verbally".
Once you have built up his record of disorderly conduct, and if and when he commits any serious act of misconduct:
1. Immediately suspend him.
2. Issue a Charge Sheet.
3. Hold a Domestic Enquiry.
4. Based on the findings of the EO, you may decide to dismiss him from service.
For any clarifications, please feel free to contact me.
Best Wishes, Vasant Nair HR Advisor 09717726667 vasantnair10@gmail.com
From India, Mumbai
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Please suspend the erring driver by quoting the recent incident pending inquiry. Subsequently, issue the show cause notice cum charge sheet and call for an explanation. If the explanation is not satisfactory, then constitute the domestic inquiry through an outsider. Upon completion of the inquiry, take suitable action appropriately. For this, you may contact your local advocates and management consultants who could assist you in this matter. For any further clarification, you may reach me at my email address b.ravichandiran@rane.co.in.
Regards,
B Ravichandiran
From India, Madras
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Regards,
B Ravichandiran
From India, Madras
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First confirm weather the driver is on your payrolls. or getting salary on salary vouchers. If he not on your payrolls. need not to worry.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Praveen,
Three options: Do you have a branch elsewhere than the current (in some far away distance)? Transfer him. If he is through a contractor, ask the contractor to terminate his services immediately. If he is your employee - Terminate him as well questioning his indiscipline.
Regards,
Sas
From India, New Delhi
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Three options: Do you have a branch elsewhere than the current (in some far away distance)? Transfer him. If he is through a contractor, ask the contractor to terminate his services immediately. If he is your employee - Terminate him as well questioning his indiscipline.
Regards,
Sas
From India, New Delhi
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Hello,
Don't just do things; think that you are a Manager-HR.
1. Check the driver's influence in management.
2. Find out the reason for action not being taken against him.
3. How long have you been with the organization?
4. What is the meaning of "Act of Indiscipline"?
5. What habits of his made you think that he is off track?
Let me tell you something. If a person in a lower cadre acts indiscipline, it might be because:
1. He might have misconducted.
2. He could be close to somebody in the top management.
3. He might have a good background in terms of union relations.
4. He might be negligent.
Except for the second point, every other issue is easily solvable. The second point can also be resolved if you specify a little more in your answers.
Mahesh
Head-HR
From India, Bangalore
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Don't just do things; think that you are a Manager-HR.
1. Check the driver's influence in management.
2. Find out the reason for action not being taken against him.
3. How long have you been with the organization?
4. What is the meaning of "Act of Indiscipline"?
5. What habits of his made you think that he is off track?
Let me tell you something. If a person in a lower cadre acts indiscipline, it might be because:
1. He might have misconducted.
2. He could be close to somebody in the top management.
3. He might have a good background in terms of union relations.
4. He might be negligent.
Except for the second point, every other issue is easily solvable. The second point can also be resolved if you specify a little more in your answers.
Mahesh
Head-HR
From India, Bangalore
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Hi,
Please take your management into confidence and prevent him from attending duty in your institution. He does not need to be sacked or terminated as he is not on your payroll as stated by you. Any documentation regarding dismissal or termination will only make him the beneficiary.
Regards,
Balamurugan Sivaprakasam
Head of HR
ICIL- MM Nagar
From India, Madras
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Please take your management into confidence and prevent him from attending duty in your institution. He does not need to be sacked or terminated as he is not on your payroll as stated by you. Any documentation regarding dismissal or termination will only make him the beneficiary.
Regards,
Balamurugan Sivaprakasam
Head of HR
ICIL- MM Nagar
From India, Madras
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Whether you have issued an appointment letter or not, it is evident that he has been working for the past 5 years. The model standing orders are applicable. Follow the procedure laid down there; that is, issue him a notice giving the details of the misconduct, wait for his reply. If no reply comes within 15 days or if the reply is not satisfactory (which is natural), conduct a domestic enquiry. In the meantime, you can suspend him pending enquiry. No doubt he has to be paid 50% of the wages, but it is still worth it. Ensure that the domestic enquiry is finished as quickly as possible and terminate his services.
Nagaraj
Email: nagaraj1946@gmail.com
From India, Bangalore
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Nagaraj
Email: nagaraj1946@gmail.com
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sir,
Please be informed that the employee is to be suspended for 5 days this week, and again for 4 days next week. You are also requested to issue a show-cause notice, seeking clarification within 72 hours. If a response is not received within the given timeframe, appropriate action will be taken, which may include termination from services.
Thank you.
Nikhil
From India, Bhopal
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Please be informed that the employee is to be suspended for 5 days this week, and again for 4 days next week. You are also requested to issue a show-cause notice, seeking clarification within 72 hours. If a response is not received within the given timeframe, appropriate action will be taken, which may include termination from services.
Thank you.
Nikhil
From India, Bhopal
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Dear Mr. Ravichandran,
Please appreciate the fact that a Show Cause Notice and a Charge Sheet are two independent and very different tools. In case you wish to discuss the fine difference between the two, please call me on my mobile, and we can discuss the same at length.
Best wishes, Vasant Nair 09717726667
From India, Mumbai
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Please appreciate the fact that a Show Cause Notice and a Charge Sheet are two independent and very different tools. In case you wish to discuss the fine difference between the two, please call me on my mobile, and we can discuss the same at length.
Best wishes, Vasant Nair 09717726667
From India, Mumbai
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1. Meet the members of the Committee/Management and appraise them. Inform them that you are going to suspend him with immediate effect, citing the verbal warnings and his past misdemeanors.
2. As yours is a private management, you need not wait for any inquiry, and you can proceed with it if deemed necessary even after suspension.
3. I am sure that once he receives his suspension order, he will come to you begging for mercy as he has no records of his appointment/employment.
4. Be firm in your decision and do not backtrack until you are confident that he will not repeat the same actions.
5. Better late than never! Otherwise, the issue may spread to other drivers as well.
6. Above all, please ensure that you have the backing of the Management.
From India, Madras
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2. As yours is a private management, you need not wait for any inquiry, and you can proceed with it if deemed necessary even after suspension.
3. I am sure that once he receives his suspension order, he will come to you begging for mercy as he has no records of his appointment/employment.
4. Be firm in your decision and do not backtrack until you are confident that he will not repeat the same actions.
5. Better late than never! Otherwise, the issue may spread to other drivers as well.
6. Above all, please ensure that you have the backing of the Management.
From India, Madras
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According to you, he is not on your payroll. So, if he is a casual or direct employee, then tell him to discontinue from tomorrow. If you have outsourced, tell that agency to change the person. You don't have to follow the procedure of a charge sheet and other things if he is on the school's payroll. However, empathetically, I suggest calling him and speaking to him in person. Take in writing that he has committed certain misconduct and will not repeat it. Then give him a chance, informing him of the consequences.
From India, Vadodara
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From India, Vadodara
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Dear Chandra,
As I think this is a very serious matter, the environment of the workstation will also spoil due to this kind of indiscipline. Here, you are advised to please prepare a document with strong evidence and suspend him with a warning letter for three days. Create a strong document against him. After one suspension, take him back with an excuse letter. As you are an HR person, you can understand that suspension is also a motivational practice in some cases. Maybe he will return with good candidature, and the suspension and warning can serve as motivation for others too. If the problem persists, issue three warning letters. If he continues to behave as before, then terminate him with his full and final settlement, proper notice period, and have all records in his file for further assistance.
Thank you.
From India, Gurgaon
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As I think this is a very serious matter, the environment of the workstation will also spoil due to this kind of indiscipline. Here, you are advised to please prepare a document with strong evidence and suspend him with a warning letter for three days. Create a strong document against him. After one suspension, take him back with an excuse letter. As you are an HR person, you can understand that suspension is also a motivational practice in some cases. Maybe he will return with good candidature, and the suspension and warning can serve as motivation for others too. If the problem persists, issue three warning letters. If he continues to behave as before, then terminate him with his full and final settlement, proper notice period, and have all records in his file for further assistance.
Thank you.
From India, Gurgaon
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Dear Thiru,
Whatever you can do, you should have a backup plan. Initially, call the driver and advise. If you are not satisfied with their response, you should take necessary action against them based on their previous misbehavior.
You should gather complaints from your officials regarding the driver's misbehavior. Based on these complaints, issue a show-cause notice to the driver. Subsequently, compile further complaints from your officials against the driver and ultimately dismiss them.
In the meantime, contact the other drivers to update them on the situation so they can be vigilant.
Regards,
Thiru
From India, Madras
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Whatever you can do, you should have a backup plan. Initially, call the driver and advise. If you are not satisfied with their response, you should take necessary action against them based on their previous misbehavior.
You should gather complaints from your officials regarding the driver's misbehavior. Based on these complaints, issue a show-cause notice to the driver. Subsequently, compile further complaints from your officials against the driver and ultimately dismiss them.
In the meantime, contact the other drivers to update them on the situation so they can be vigilant.
Regards,
Thiru
From India, Madras
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Dear Nikhil & Naeem,
Please do not make such cursory statements. After all, we are all HR practitioners and are seeking serious solutions to important HR issues. The solutions suggested by you can have very serious repercussions. Please take care.
Thank you,
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
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Please do not make such cursory statements. After all, we are all HR practitioners and are seeking serious solutions to important HR issues. The solutions suggested by you can have very serious repercussions. Please take care.
Thank you,
Vasant Nair
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Mr. Praveen,
You have not mentioned what acts of misconduct he had committed earlier. And now you say that his indiscipline has reached its maximum!
True, every act of indiscipline has to be handled as per the provisions in the law. Have you called him and talked to him about any of the acts of misconduct? Did you give him a chance to air his grievances? Have you given any advice to him to improve his conduct? You have not seen the misconduct from his point of view.
People dealing with HR may know counseling and industrial relations. If counseling does not work and he continues to commit misconduct, issue a charge sheet, conduct a domestic inquiry, and if the charges can be proven, take an appropriate decision for punishment.
If you dismiss him without an inquiry or without grounds for imposing the penalty of dismissal, he has every right to go to the Labor Department for conciliation. If conciliation fails, the matter will be referred to the Labor Court, which has the power to give directions for: 1) Reinstatement of the dismissed worker, 2) with back wages, and 3) continuity in service. He will likely get a reinstatement order because you have not given him any charge sheet so far or taken any action for misconduct during his service period. Think and decide.
From India, Madras
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You have not mentioned what acts of misconduct he had committed earlier. And now you say that his indiscipline has reached its maximum!
True, every act of indiscipline has to be handled as per the provisions in the law. Have you called him and talked to him about any of the acts of misconduct? Did you give him a chance to air his grievances? Have you given any advice to him to improve his conduct? You have not seen the misconduct from his point of view.
People dealing with HR may know counseling and industrial relations. If counseling does not work and he continues to commit misconduct, issue a charge sheet, conduct a domestic inquiry, and if the charges can be proven, take an appropriate decision for punishment.
If you dismiss him without an inquiry or without grounds for imposing the penalty of dismissal, he has every right to go to the Labor Department for conciliation. If conciliation fails, the matter will be referred to the Labor Court, which has the power to give directions for: 1) Reinstatement of the dismissed worker, 2) with back wages, and 3) continuity in service. He will likely get a reinstatement order because you have not given him any charge sheet so far or taken any action for misconduct during his service period. Think and decide.
From India, Madras
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Hi,
Better late than never. I am replying after receiving many solutions. Please understand that a bus driver in a school is not like any other driver in an industry or transport business. A school or education institution is not an industry. The driver of a school bus not only drives the bus but also has the additional responsibility of taking care of children, dropping them at the correct points at the right time, waiting for the guardian to pick up the child, and if a new person comes to collect the child, he should, if in doubt, take the child back to school for safety purposes. He should drive moderately and ensure the safety of the children inside always. He can never be rash or use bad words against others on the road. He has an obligation for the safety of the children.
This kind of role is not given to an ordinary person. Nor can a person who undertakes this role be an employee without the right temperament or attitude for this work. His character, habits, and antecedents verification are a must before hiring him. So if a driver is acting badly, we should ensure the safety of the children by trying to find out the cause of the disgruntlement and counsel against the bad behavior - as a first step.
Meanwhile, you can start collecting written reports or complaints of his bad behavior, build a case, issue him a charge sheet, conduct an inquiry, and terminate his services. Whatever action you take, please follow the provisions of the law. If there is no law, then ensure the safety of the children. However, when you take action, be prompt and firm, and ensure that the case is solid.
From India, Bangalore
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Better late than never. I am replying after receiving many solutions. Please understand that a bus driver in a school is not like any other driver in an industry or transport business. A school or education institution is not an industry. The driver of a school bus not only drives the bus but also has the additional responsibility of taking care of children, dropping them at the correct points at the right time, waiting for the guardian to pick up the child, and if a new person comes to collect the child, he should, if in doubt, take the child back to school for safety purposes. He should drive moderately and ensure the safety of the children inside always. He can never be rash or use bad words against others on the road. He has an obligation for the safety of the children.
This kind of role is not given to an ordinary person. Nor can a person who undertakes this role be an employee without the right temperament or attitude for this work. His character, habits, and antecedents verification are a must before hiring him. So if a driver is acting badly, we should ensure the safety of the children by trying to find out the cause of the disgruntlement and counsel against the bad behavior - as a first step.
Meanwhile, you can start collecting written reports or complaints of his bad behavior, build a case, issue him a charge sheet, conduct an inquiry, and terminate his services. Whatever action you take, please follow the provisions of the law. If there is no law, then ensure the safety of the children. However, when you take action, be prompt and firm, and ensure that the case is solid.
From India, Bangalore
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