Hi Folks,
Need to discuss an issues with you all, We are a Jaipur based IT company, recently one guy join us 1.5 month before he is from NIT college pass out, not coming office from last one week when we asked his colleagues .... they told that his father was not well left for his home town.
Without informing HR or his Team lead … we tried to reach him on phone, but no response, called his dad…. get to know that he joined Some company in Mumbai (We know the company name)
Suggest us can company take any action against him or does it make any sense??
This is simply a case of absconding ….. set a wrong e.g among employees.
Thanks,
Shilpa
From India, Jaipur
1Need to discuss an issues with you all, We are a Jaipur based IT company, recently one guy join us 1.5 month before he is from NIT college pass out, not coming office from last one week when we asked his colleagues .... they told that his father was not well left for his home town.
Without informing HR or his Team lead … we tried to reach him on phone, but no response, called his dad…. get to know that he joined Some company in Mumbai (We know the company name)
Suggest us can company take any action against him or does it make any sense??
This is simply a case of absconding ….. set a wrong e.g among employees.
Thanks,
Shilpa
From India, Jaipur
Within one & half a month working, he has left. That means, he is not satisfied with the job or lower paycheck. Why you want to pursue a man who is not interested? Leave him.
From India, Lucknow
From India, Lucknow
Shilpa,
My reply may not answer your question, but it airs my frustration (as a consultant and a potential jobseeker). This was a major challenge back in the mid-/late-90s, when there was a flood of Indian H1B workers (especially from India) into the US. One of the most difficult questions I had to answer (being an Indian) was - "Many Indian workers join one company and within a couple of months, disappear because they found another job that paid them a few dollars more. Our work and business suffers and we lose the time they spent in our company. How can you assure me that you would not do that to us?". Is it racial profiling? Of course it is. But I believe we fed that due to our own actions. People are quick to blame an entire race for the fault of a few (9-11 aftermath in NYC is the best example for this). I don’t just blame the H1B workforce. I used to receive numerous phone calls from IT recruiters asking me to join them saying “how much is your company paying you? I will pay you more”. That’s how low was the opinion – that one would sell one’s soul for a few dollars more.
Although my motivation has always been the work I do and not the money I am paid, it is the sad truth that there are indeed some bad apples in the basket for whom, money is the ONLY motivation - even if that is just a few dollars more. These people lack personal integrity, professional ethics and moral values. As such, the rest must take a hit. I don't face that question any more - I built my own reputation and trust. Also, such "bad" apples no longer flood the US job market, because the companies are no longer as desperate as they used to be in the 90s because of the changed Demand & Supply dynamics.
While my thinking is that you would find such people every so often, the question you need to ask yourself is, what is better in the long run? Is it better to explore legal options to the full extent now and instill fear in other employees to not follow this one bad employee's example? Or should you focus on better employee hiring and retention processes? Potential candidate interviews at companies like Microsoft etc., focus on finding reasons to NOT hire a candidate, rather than why they should hire them (process of elimination, rather than selection). This helps weed out such bad apples.
As far as setting an example for the fellow employees, it has been long proven that fear will not stop people from acting their natural instincts. Rather, it will encourage deceit, discreetness, and "absconding". Encourage them to be truthful and don't hold their honesty against them. For example, if an employee walks up to you and says, "Boss, I want to resign my job here, as I want to move on to a better position at a different company", treat them with respect and understanding, lay out a reasonable transition plan (lasting no more than two weeks), find another internal (interim) employee(s) who can pick up his/her work, and at the end of two weeks, let them go. Better yet, ask them to lay out a transition plan and timeframe. Your focus must be to get them out of the company as quickly and as smoothly as possible. If you can do that, you would minimize these "sudden death" employees. Remember, NO EMPLOYEE IS INDESPENSIBLE. By making it absolutely impossible for them to leave (I read in another post that some company asked the member for 3 months notice period!!!), gives even the good and ethical ones no option but to leave suddenly.
Therefore, following are my recommendations.
1. Create a strong interview process to weed out the bad apples
2. Create employee-friendly HR policies for, not just hiring but also, separation
3. Create a comfort feeling in the employees that they are not bonded labor to the company and are free to leave if they chose to. If you make it easy for them to leave, you will be surprised to see that they will chose to stay.
In the US, the culture in the private sector is "At Will Employment". An employment may be terminated either by the employee or the employer at any time for any reason or no reason, with or without notice.
Ending note: I haven't been in Indian job market in a very long time. My comments/suggestions above are based on the employee/employer relations as they were in the IT sector in early 90s. If this has changed and the culture now is "At will employment", please excuse my ignorance and lack of information about current job market.
Thanks, and best regards,
--Som G
From United States, Woodinville
My reply may not answer your question, but it airs my frustration (as a consultant and a potential jobseeker). This was a major challenge back in the mid-/late-90s, when there was a flood of Indian H1B workers (especially from India) into the US. One of the most difficult questions I had to answer (being an Indian) was - "Many Indian workers join one company and within a couple of months, disappear because they found another job that paid them a few dollars more. Our work and business suffers and we lose the time they spent in our company. How can you assure me that you would not do that to us?". Is it racial profiling? Of course it is. But I believe we fed that due to our own actions. People are quick to blame an entire race for the fault of a few (9-11 aftermath in NYC is the best example for this). I don’t just blame the H1B workforce. I used to receive numerous phone calls from IT recruiters asking me to join them saying “how much is your company paying you? I will pay you more”. That’s how low was the opinion – that one would sell one’s soul for a few dollars more.
Although my motivation has always been the work I do and not the money I am paid, it is the sad truth that there are indeed some bad apples in the basket for whom, money is the ONLY motivation - even if that is just a few dollars more. These people lack personal integrity, professional ethics and moral values. As such, the rest must take a hit. I don't face that question any more - I built my own reputation and trust. Also, such "bad" apples no longer flood the US job market, because the companies are no longer as desperate as they used to be in the 90s because of the changed Demand & Supply dynamics.
While my thinking is that you would find such people every so often, the question you need to ask yourself is, what is better in the long run? Is it better to explore legal options to the full extent now and instill fear in other employees to not follow this one bad employee's example? Or should you focus on better employee hiring and retention processes? Potential candidate interviews at companies like Microsoft etc., focus on finding reasons to NOT hire a candidate, rather than why they should hire them (process of elimination, rather than selection). This helps weed out such bad apples.
As far as setting an example for the fellow employees, it has been long proven that fear will not stop people from acting their natural instincts. Rather, it will encourage deceit, discreetness, and "absconding". Encourage them to be truthful and don't hold their honesty against them. For example, if an employee walks up to you and says, "Boss, I want to resign my job here, as I want to move on to a better position at a different company", treat them with respect and understanding, lay out a reasonable transition plan (lasting no more than two weeks), find another internal (interim) employee(s) who can pick up his/her work, and at the end of two weeks, let them go. Better yet, ask them to lay out a transition plan and timeframe. Your focus must be to get them out of the company as quickly and as smoothly as possible. If you can do that, you would minimize these "sudden death" employees. Remember, NO EMPLOYEE IS INDESPENSIBLE. By making it absolutely impossible for them to leave (I read in another post that some company asked the member for 3 months notice period!!!), gives even the good and ethical ones no option but to leave suddenly.
Therefore, following are my recommendations.
1. Create a strong interview process to weed out the bad apples
2. Create employee-friendly HR policies for, not just hiring but also, separation
3. Create a comfort feeling in the employees that they are not bonded labor to the company and are free to leave if they chose to. If you make it easy for them to leave, you will be surprised to see that they will chose to stay.
In the US, the culture in the private sector is "At Will Employment". An employment may be terminated either by the employee or the employer at any time for any reason or no reason, with or without notice.
Ending note: I haven't been in Indian job market in a very long time. My comments/suggestions above are based on the employee/employer relations as they were in the IT sector in early 90s. If this has changed and the culture now is "At will employment", please excuse my ignorance and lack of information about current job market.
Thanks, and best regards,
--Som G
From United States, Woodinville
Dear Shilpa,
whether dissatisfied with the job or he has got a better offer, employee donot intend to continue with you. What's the fun of taking any action on whom who has already shifted his loyalty.
Yes you should take action if any company property is still in his possession else facilitate his smooth exit.
Regarding setting a wrong example, for future you develop a climate where in if any such employee comes to you and confides about his exit plan, you will respect his/ her decision and accord full discretion.
From India, Delhi
whether dissatisfied with the job or he has got a better offer, employee donot intend to continue with you. What's the fun of taking any action on whom who has already shifted his loyalty.
Yes you should take action if any company property is still in his possession else facilitate his smooth exit.
Regarding setting a wrong example, for future you develop a climate where in if any such employee comes to you and confides about his exit plan, you will respect his/ her decision and accord full discretion.
From India, Delhi
Do not take vengence for leaving your company.
Live and let others live..........should be your principle
people will move to another jobs wherever they are comfortable you just cannot punish each employee for this cases its waste of time and energy as well as money. There is no legal recourse in this case even if there is some partial possibility finding him guilty of breach of contract punishment will be very very minor and your efforts to bring him to justice will endup in mess and hell lot of things of chasing courts, lawyers, sending notices, replying counter notices will be futil efforts with kind of justice delivered will be maximum one months notice pay to your company....
partho
From Saudi Arabia
Live and let others live..........should be your principle
people will move to another jobs wherever they are comfortable you just cannot punish each employee for this cases its waste of time and energy as well as money. There is no legal recourse in this case even if there is some partial possibility finding him guilty of breach of contract punishment will be very very minor and your efforts to bring him to justice will endup in mess and hell lot of things of chasing courts, lawyers, sending notices, replying counter notices will be futil efforts with kind of justice delivered will be maximum one months notice pay to your company....
partho
From Saudi Arabia
A previous employer check in all kind of HR interviews may help to arrest such 'cutting the tail n going' attitude. On other hand, if the employee want to quit the job, the employer should releave him, provided his dues are cleared. And if the employer feels that the employee is an asset to the company, then, patch up the employee's need for which he is moving to another company, atleast to a certain extent.
Regards,
Vinish Kumar
Cochin
Mob: 09995802091
From India, Thrissur
Regards,
Vinish Kumar
Cochin
Mob: 09995802091
From India, Thrissur
Our Members have given good suggestions above.
However - I am tempted to assume that you do not belong to the HR department (as you mentioned - without informing the HR or team lead)
So now, simply drop a message to the team lead stating that you came to know this information through some outside sources (maybe you could say a friend in that same company said that this candidate has joined there...)
This would help in removing his name from the payroll.
Its a bad example - maybe he joined because he did not want to be idle and was waiting for the offer from a new company.
First go through the team lead, then seek team lead's direction to approach HR.
From India, Madras
However - I am tempted to assume that you do not belong to the HR department (as you mentioned - without informing the HR or team lead)
So now, simply drop a message to the team lead stating that you came to know this information through some outside sources (maybe you could say a friend in that same company said that this candidate has joined there...)
This would help in removing his name from the payroll.
Its a bad example - maybe he joined because he did not want to be idle and was waiting for the offer from a new company.
First go through the team lead, then seek team lead's direction to approach HR.
From India, Madras
Dear Shilpa,
As a Corporate entity, a employee leaving without any notice creates a lot of problems and disturbs the work atmosphere, creating a additional work burden upon his co employees.
So i would state, that incase you really want to fix this absconding employee, you can send a legal notice to him, with a Copy to his new employers, for "specific Performance Of Contract"
Secondly, the appointment letter, must specify, the termination clause, and the Notice pay clause. Just to create a deterrent to the other employees, you can put a legal notice for recovery of Notice pay alongwith damages.
If the employee is absconding with Company property or assets, file a FIR, with the local police station.
But one thing i can say that if a employee leaves his job, then do not try to bring him back by force, as he would become as unless liability upon the COmpany, and a burden upon his team.
Just threaten him, and see. If he pays, then good.
From India, Pune
As a Corporate entity, a employee leaving without any notice creates a lot of problems and disturbs the work atmosphere, creating a additional work burden upon his co employees.
So i would state, that incase you really want to fix this absconding employee, you can send a legal notice to him, with a Copy to his new employers, for "specific Performance Of Contract"
Secondly, the appointment letter, must specify, the termination clause, and the Notice pay clause. Just to create a deterrent to the other employees, you can put a legal notice for recovery of Notice pay alongwith damages.
If the employee is absconding with Company property or assets, file a FIR, with the local police station.
But one thing i can say that if a employee leaves his job, then do not try to bring him back by force, as he would become as unless liability upon the COmpany, and a burden upon his team.
Just threaten him, and see. If he pays, then good.
From India, Pune
Asha, your reply is just too confusing and does not have any clear instructions as what you suggest to the thread starter. Might be I am not able to understand what exactly oyu want to convey. Your replies getting confusing day by day[/QUOTE]
Dear Ravi,
Please read what the thread starter has quoted. It says "Without informing the HR or Team lead ...we decided to investigate..."
So this person is not an HR or even the team lead? Just another colleague?
Tht is how I interpreted the message.
(PS: I dont know if my messages are getting confusing everyday, but I do know that my mind is growing each day. Dont get stuck in one place - in that case you only grow old, but mind never grows. This must explain why you are confused or not able to understand what I meant. If you have still not understood, go back to rule no 1: Let your mind grow!)
From India, Madras
Dear Ravi,
Please read what the thread starter has quoted. It says "Without informing the HR or Team lead ...we decided to investigate..."
So this person is not an HR or even the team lead? Just another colleague?
Tht is how I interpreted the message.
(PS: I dont know if my messages are getting confusing everyday, but I do know that my mind is growing each day. Dont get stuck in one place - in that case you only grow old, but mind never grows. This must explain why you are confused or not able to understand what I meant. If you have still not understood, go back to rule no 1: Let your mind grow!)
From India, Madras
Shilpa
Thx for the smiley in your post - I was under the impression you are like one of those unsmiling, stern "bounty hunters" - some tough professionals in US who go after and catch criminals who jump bail; and i knew you were in HR, when you wote - "did not inform HR... ", because you obviously could not have written "he did not inform 'me'". Secondly, line authorities are generally too busy with the company's tasks and target to go after an employee.
Coming to your poblem/dilemma :
These days when top IT companies like Wipro, HCL etc are firing people due to recession; why are you adamant to catch a fresh graduate with only a month's employmnt ? I am sure you havn't invested much on him by way of training.
When companies can throw away employees at will, what is the harm if the young guy preferred to look for greener pasture elsewhere ?
Please do not make it a prestige issue and start looking for his replacement,
(as others have rightly pointed out).
Regards.
From India, Delhi
Thx for the smiley in your post - I was under the impression you are like one of those unsmiling, stern "bounty hunters" - some tough professionals in US who go after and catch criminals who jump bail; and i knew you were in HR, when you wote - "did not inform HR... ", because you obviously could not have written "he did not inform 'me'". Secondly, line authorities are generally too busy with the company's tasks and target to go after an employee.
Coming to your poblem/dilemma :
These days when top IT companies like Wipro, HCL etc are firing people due to recession; why are you adamant to catch a fresh graduate with only a month's employmnt ? I am sure you havn't invested much on him by way of training.
When companies can throw away employees at will, what is the harm if the young guy preferred to look for greener pasture elsewhere ?
Please do not make it a prestige issue and start looking for his replacement,
(as others have rightly pointed out).
Regards.
From India, Delhi
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Legal Clarification on Absconding & Contract Labour.pdf
Absconding letter.doc