Dear Friends,
Can an employer show an employee who arrives late as Leave Without Pay, even if the person has a balance of leave available?
- Please review the part of the circular provided to employees, specifically point 2, and share your views.
- Is it ethical to use this type of language?
Circular
1. All staff must be in the office by 08:45 am (from 18/2/2009 to 25/2/2009)
2. Individuals who arrive late will be marked as leave without pay, even if they have leave balance available.
(Friends, please note that the regular office time is 9.00 am. So, if an employee reaches the office at 8.50 am but earlier than the regular time of 9.00 am, is it ethical to mark them as Leave Without Pay even if they have surplus Earned Leave (EL) and Casual Leave (CL) in their balance?)
Regards,
Preeti
From India, Udaipur
Can an employer show an employee who arrives late as Leave Without Pay, even if the person has a balance of leave available?
- Please review the part of the circular provided to employees, specifically point 2, and share your views.
- Is it ethical to use this type of language?
Circular
1. All staff must be in the office by 08:45 am (from 18/2/2009 to 25/2/2009)
2. Individuals who arrive late will be marked as leave without pay, even if they have leave balance available.
(Friends, please note that the regular office time is 9.00 am. So, if an employee reaches the office at 8.50 am but earlier than the regular time of 9.00 am, is it ethical to mark them as Leave Without Pay even if they have surplus Earned Leave (EL) and Casual Leave (CL) in their balance?)
Regards,
Preeti
From India, Udaipur
Dear Preety,
This is illegal what your management is asking. First of all, they cannot show you LWP if you are coming before 9 am. Secondly, as per the Payment of Wages Act, this will be an illegal deduction. Even if you are coming 10 minutes late, then only 10 minutes' salary can be deducted.
TJS
J S Malik
From India, Delhi
This is illegal what your management is asking. First of all, they cannot show you LWP if you are coming before 9 am. Secondly, as per the Payment of Wages Act, this will be an illegal deduction. Even if you are coming 10 minutes late, then only 10 minutes' salary can be deducted.
TJS
J S Malik
From India, Delhi
Hi Preeti,
This happens with many companies in our country. First of all, the circular itself is proof for employees to approach for legal action. Most of the companies give 10 to 15 minutes of grace time for logging in, which can be adjusted by logging out 10 - 15 minutes late. If an employee arrives 3 or more days late by more than 15 minutes, one day's salary can be deducted, but only if the employee is not maintaining the total weekly and monthly working hours regularly. In India, the official weekly working hours are 48 hours per week.
From India, Bangalore
This happens with many companies in our country. First of all, the circular itself is proof for employees to approach for legal action. Most of the companies give 10 to 15 minutes of grace time for logging in, which can be adjusted by logging out 10 - 15 minutes late. If an employee arrives 3 or more days late by more than 15 minutes, one day's salary can be deducted, but only if the employee is not maintaining the total weekly and monthly working hours regularly. In India, the official weekly working hours are 48 hours per week.
From India, Bangalore
Hi Ajay,
Actually, the employer is not as strict here. Usually, it does not happen; employees get grace time. This rule mentioned in the circular is for a specific time period. However, the issue is that the employer should never use this language, which is decreasing the respect of the company.
Obviously, what the top management says and writes has a long-lasting effect on employees' perception.
From India, Udaipur
Actually, the employer is not as strict here. Usually, it does not happen; employees get grace time. This rule mentioned in the circular is for a specific time period. However, the issue is that the employer should never use this language, which is decreasing the respect of the company.
Obviously, what the top management says and writes has a long-lasting effect on employees' perception.
From India, Udaipur
Hello Sir, This is jayana and i m working as HR in IT company, is it applicable if the employee is habitually coming late every day... Pls advice Regards Jayana
From India, Ahmadabad
From India, Ahmadabad
The only sad part in all over India is, if we are coming late 3 times in a month, the company will deduct one day's salary. However, if we leave late more than 3 times in a month due to the company's work, we will not receive any reward; instead, everyone will say, "You are not a skilled person." We cannot do anything except work.
Regards,
Prasad
From India, Hyderabad
Regards,
Prasad
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Preety,
It is not clear whether your company is located in a Metro city or elsewhere. Additionally, the mode of transport (e.g., own transport, public transport, company-provided transport used by employees) is not clear from your circular. It seems that your management is more interested in deducting wages rather than improving the punctuality of employees. There are a number of ways to enhance employee punctuality. One suggestion may be:
i) Allow employees up to 09:05 hrs on all working days.
ii) Allow employees up to 09:15 hrs on all working days but require them to continue working in the evening after 17:30 hrs for the minutes they are late beyond 09:00 hrs.
iii) Those who arrive late beyond 09:05 hrs may be asked to apply for half-day CL.
The results of the above suggestions may become visible within a few months.
Vinay
From India, Delhi
It is not clear whether your company is located in a Metro city or elsewhere. Additionally, the mode of transport (e.g., own transport, public transport, company-provided transport used by employees) is not clear from your circular. It seems that your management is more interested in deducting wages rather than improving the punctuality of employees. There are a number of ways to enhance employee punctuality. One suggestion may be:
i) Allow employees up to 09:05 hrs on all working days.
ii) Allow employees up to 09:15 hrs on all working days but require them to continue working in the evening after 17:30 hrs for the minutes they are late beyond 09:00 hrs.
iii) Those who arrive late beyond 09:05 hrs may be asked to apply for half-day CL.
The results of the above suggestions may become visible within a few months.
Vinay
From India, Delhi
Hi Preety,
I would like to know if this rule is applicable only for the dates mentioned. If yes, then what is the reason behind it? Secondly, did the management have any kind of discussion with employees before sending across this circular?
From India, Pune
I would like to know if this rule is applicable only for the dates mentioned. If yes, then what is the reason behind it? Secondly, did the management have any kind of discussion with employees before sending across this circular?
From India, Pune
Hi there,
There may be one more option to tackle the timing problem. You can have a weekly or monthly prize named "Best Employee of the Week" or "Month." Just make punctuality one of the main criteria for winning the prize. This will create no negative feelings among employees and will motivate them to be on time. Consider including a running trophy.
Thanks,
Rana
There may be one more option to tackle the timing problem. You can have a weekly or monthly prize named "Best Employee of the Week" or "Month." Just make punctuality one of the main criteria for winning the prize. This will create no negative feelings among employees and will motivate them to be on time. Consider including a running trophy.
Thanks,
Rana
Hi Preethi,
Do you have a conduct rule prescribed, or are your employees covered under the Employment Standing Orders Act? If so, please check whether Clause No. 2 is included.
According to the conduct rules/ESO Act, late coming is considered misconduct. If late coming is habitual, the employer is obligated to initiate disciplinary action. Therefore, late coming cannot be equated or adjusted against any type of leave, even if the employee has leave to their credit.
Some organizations deviate from this principle and offer half-day leave, etc., for instances of late coming, which may be based on agreements with trade unions. Otherwise, the actual time of late coming must be deducted for the payment of wages, even if the employee has leave available. This practice is not considered unethical.
Best regards,
Gopan
From India, Kochi
Do you have a conduct rule prescribed, or are your employees covered under the Employment Standing Orders Act? If so, please check whether Clause No. 2 is included.
According to the conduct rules/ESO Act, late coming is considered misconduct. If late coming is habitual, the employer is obligated to initiate disciplinary action. Therefore, late coming cannot be equated or adjusted against any type of leave, even if the employee has leave to their credit.
Some organizations deviate from this principle and offer half-day leave, etc., for instances of late coming, which may be based on agreements with trade unions. Otherwise, the actual time of late coming must be deducted for the payment of wages, even if the employee has leave available. This practice is not considered unethical.
Best regards,
Gopan
From India, Kochi
Hi Jayana, if an employee is habitual, employer can terminate him with notice period. None of the employers will entertain such employees who is habitually late.
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Dear Preety,
It would be better if you could consider other options, such as starting a reward system for employees who arrive on time. It is not necessary for the rewards to be in monetary terms.
You can hang a whiteboard in your workplace and begin writing the names of 10 employees daily or weekly - those who arrive on time and those who are late.
Consider initiating a motivational training program.
Please ensure that your superiors are prepared for this.
Thank you.
It would be better if you could consider other options, such as starting a reward system for employees who arrive on time. It is not necessary for the rewards to be in monetary terms.
You can hang a whiteboard in your workplace and begin writing the names of 10 employees daily or weekly - those who arrive on time and those who are late.
Consider initiating a motivational training program.
Please ensure that your superiors are prepared for this.
Thank you.
Dear Preety,
It is advisable to define a policy on misconduct, such as late reporting, and make it a part of the service rules of the organization.
Counseling of employees in the presence of their HODs must be conducted, and records of these sessions should be placed in their respective personal files. Warning letters and advisory memos should be issued to these employees.
You can draft a policy stating that employees must report on duty at the designated time and be present at their workstations by 9:00 AM.
Late reporting up to 10 minutes is acceptable in certain circumstances, and up to 1 hour for a maximum of 3 times in a month in extreme emergencies.
Employees reporting late for duties after 9:10 AM more than 3 times in a month shall be penalized as follows:
1) Half day casual leave shall be debited from the leave account of the concerned employee for every 3 late arrivals, i.e., if an employee is late 6 times, half a CL shall be deducted.
2) If the employee has no leave available, their salary may be deducted.
Before implementing these measures, draft a policy along these lines and get it approved by the HR Head and top management. Additionally, all employees must read and sign the policy as a token of acceptance.
The signed documents from the employees must be preserved in a separate file.
Always consider the Principle of Natural Justice and act accordingly.
Thanks,
Amit Anand Gera
Dear Friends,
Can an employer designate an employee who arrives late as Leave Without Pay, even if they have a leave balance?
Kindly review the circular provided to employees, specifically point 2, and share your opinions.
Is it ethical to use this type of language?
Circular:
1. All staff must be in the office by 8:45 AM (from 18/2/2009 to 25/2/2009)
2. Individuals arriving late to be marked as leave without pay, even if they have a leave balance.
Friends, please note that the regular office time is 9:00 AM. If an employee arrives at 8:50 AM, earlier than the regular time of 9:00 AM, is it ethical to designate them as Leave Without Pay even if they have surplus EL and CL balances?
Regards,
Preeti
From India, New Delhi
It is advisable to define a policy on misconduct, such as late reporting, and make it a part of the service rules of the organization.
Counseling of employees in the presence of their HODs must be conducted, and records of these sessions should be placed in their respective personal files. Warning letters and advisory memos should be issued to these employees.
You can draft a policy stating that employees must report on duty at the designated time and be present at their workstations by 9:00 AM.
Late reporting up to 10 minutes is acceptable in certain circumstances, and up to 1 hour for a maximum of 3 times in a month in extreme emergencies.
Employees reporting late for duties after 9:10 AM more than 3 times in a month shall be penalized as follows:
1) Half day casual leave shall be debited from the leave account of the concerned employee for every 3 late arrivals, i.e., if an employee is late 6 times, half a CL shall be deducted.
2) If the employee has no leave available, their salary may be deducted.
Before implementing these measures, draft a policy along these lines and get it approved by the HR Head and top management. Additionally, all employees must read and sign the policy as a token of acceptance.
The signed documents from the employees must be preserved in a separate file.
Always consider the Principle of Natural Justice and act accordingly.
Thanks,
Amit Anand Gera
Dear Friends,
Can an employer designate an employee who arrives late as Leave Without Pay, even if they have a leave balance?
Kindly review the circular provided to employees, specifically point 2, and share your opinions.
Is it ethical to use this type of language?
Circular:
1. All staff must be in the office by 8:45 AM (from 18/2/2009 to 25/2/2009)
2. Individuals arriving late to be marked as leave without pay, even if they have a leave balance.
Friends, please note that the regular office time is 9:00 AM. If an employee arrives at 8:50 AM, earlier than the regular time of 9:00 AM, is it ethical to designate them as Leave Without Pay even if they have surplus EL and CL balances?
Regards,
Preeti
From India, New Delhi
There is nothing called ethical and unethical in private companies. Employees work like donkeys…. They can not have any say. Employers make their own rules……..HRs are there only to follow the instructions from the top management.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear All,
Late coming is a matter of concern for many organizations. The employer has no right to deduct the wages if the employee arrives on time, i.e., on or before 9:00 in this case. However, the Payment of Wages Act does not cover wages above a specified salary. "Nothing in this Act shall apply to wages payable in respect of a wage-period which, over such wage-period, average one thousand six hundred rupees a month or more." Therefore, please do not delve into the legality. We need to accept the rules and act accordingly.
Yours,
NSB
From India, Bangalore
Late coming is a matter of concern for many organizations. The employer has no right to deduct the wages if the employee arrives on time, i.e., on or before 9:00 in this case. However, the Payment of Wages Act does not cover wages above a specified salary. "Nothing in this Act shall apply to wages payable in respect of a wage-period which, over such wage-period, average one thousand six hundred rupees a month or more." Therefore, please do not delve into the legality. We need to accept the rules and act accordingly.
Yours,
NSB
From India, Bangalore
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