My friend joined a proprietorship manufacturing firm with two units and employing more than 100 employees and workers. In the appointment letter issued to him, it mentions that the company can terminate/discontinue his services with 24 hours' notice, whereas if the employee wants to leave the job, they are required to give a month's notice. It appears that the terms and conditions are biased and one-sided. Can someone suggest the validity of these terms and conditions?
From India, Mumbai
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4From India, Mumbai
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The title of the thread and the content of the question seem to be at variance.
Notice periods for a probationer and a confirmed employee can be different. If the notice period mentioned in the post pertains to a confirmed employee, it is certainly biased and cannot stand legal scrutiny in case of any dispute later in this regard.
From India, Salem
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Notice periods for a probationer and a confirmed employee can be different. If the notice period mentioned in the post pertains to a confirmed employee, it is certainly biased and cannot stand legal scrutiny in case of any dispute later in this regard.
From India, Salem
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Probation and Permanent Positions
Probation is akin to "Appointment against a Permanent Position" with the proviso that once the performance and behavior of the probationer are found satisfactory, he/she is confirmed against that permanent position. Hence, the notice period for a probationer is a misnomer, as probationers in such provisional appointments can be terminated due to unsatisfactory performance and behavior. During their probationary period, the probationer can quit if he/she decides to do so without observing any notice period; just a notice to do so shall suffice.
Kritarth Team has followed this for over four decades now.
Kritarth Team, 29 Dec 2018
From India, Delhi
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Probation is akin to "Appointment against a Permanent Position" with the proviso that once the performance and behavior of the probationer are found satisfactory, he/she is confirmed against that permanent position. Hence, the notice period for a probationer is a misnomer, as probationers in such provisional appointments can be terminated due to unsatisfactory performance and behavior. During their probationary period, the probationer can quit if he/she decides to do so without observing any notice period; just a notice to do so shall suffice.
Kritarth Team has followed this for over four decades now.
Kritarth Team, 29 Dec 2018
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for your suggestions. My query is that my friend is nearing the completion of probation in 15 days. If during this period my friend wants to discontinue, a 1-month notice period is required as per the clause of the appointment letter. However, if the company wants to discontinue his services, it can do so by giving 24 hours' notice. Considering the above biased clauses, can the company terminate him (or a probationer) by giving 24 hours' notice and without 1 month's salary compensation?
Furthermore, my friend has not signed the appointment letter and wrote a letter requesting to revise a few terms and conditions, including the notice period. However, no reply has been received from the company so far, even though 2-3 months have passed. Now, in the circumstances where the company discontinues his services, what would be the compensation my friend can claim? My friend is in a senior position with over 15 years of experience, and the company has not documented anything unsatisfactory regarding his performance and conduct.
Please suggest and guide.
From India, Mumbai
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Furthermore, my friend has not signed the appointment letter and wrote a letter requesting to revise a few terms and conditions, including the notice period. However, no reply has been received from the company so far, even though 2-3 months have passed. Now, in the circumstances where the company discontinues his services, what would be the compensation my friend can claim? My friend is in a senior position with over 15 years of experience, and the company has not documented anything unsatisfactory regarding his performance and conduct.
Please suggest and guide.
From India, Mumbai
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The Importance of a Probation Period in Employment
With due regard to the view of the learned member from M/S Kritarth Consulting, I have a different perception about the concept of probation in employment. I would like to uphold the necessity for a compulsory period of probation immediately following the joining of a new entrant in any organization. This applies not only to freshers but also to experienced candidates. Freshers, despite their brilliant academic records, certainly need some time to gain practical knowledge and understand the nuances of their behavior within the closed social group of employees of the same organization. Probation is a predetermined and limited phase or brief duration of time that demands more orientation to the post held and understanding the work culture of the organization than merely discharging the mundane responsibilities attached to it. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for the employer to subjectively declare within a day or two that the newcomer would not fit into the organization and show them the exit. Similarly, it would not be appropriate for the newcomer to simply walk out the moment they find the job demanding or the work atmosphere tense.
Addressing the Latest Query
Regarding the latest query of the questioner, being a senior, his friend could have asked to revise the offer in line with his preferences or simply rejected it instead of joining. However, at this juncture, in my opinion, there are two possibilities:
(a) The management may consider the changes solicited and agree at the end of the probation period to confirm him, or simply discharge him citing the termination clause in the offer.
OR
(b) They may accept the resignation subject to the fulfillment of the notice condition in its entirety and demand 15 days' salary towards the unserved notice period or adjust it in his last month's salary.
From India, Salem
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With due regard to the view of the learned member from M/S Kritarth Consulting, I have a different perception about the concept of probation in employment. I would like to uphold the necessity for a compulsory period of probation immediately following the joining of a new entrant in any organization. This applies not only to freshers but also to experienced candidates. Freshers, despite their brilliant academic records, certainly need some time to gain practical knowledge and understand the nuances of their behavior within the closed social group of employees of the same organization. Probation is a predetermined and limited phase or brief duration of time that demands more orientation to the post held and understanding the work culture of the organization than merely discharging the mundane responsibilities attached to it. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for the employer to subjectively declare within a day or two that the newcomer would not fit into the organization and show them the exit. Similarly, it would not be appropriate for the newcomer to simply walk out the moment they find the job demanding or the work atmosphere tense.
Addressing the Latest Query
Regarding the latest query of the questioner, being a senior, his friend could have asked to revise the offer in line with his preferences or simply rejected it instead of joining. However, at this juncture, in my opinion, there are two possibilities:
(a) The management may consider the changes solicited and agree at the end of the probation period to confirm him, or simply discharge him citing the termination clause in the offer.
OR
(b) They may accept the resignation subject to the fulfillment of the notice condition in its entirety and demand 15 days' salary towards the unserved notice period or adjust it in his last month's salary.
From India, Salem
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Respected Sir, thank you for your valuable opinions.
The company issued an appointment letter to my friend two months after joining, following the interview. My friend had to join the company without the appointment letter as he required a job to manage his household. Some companies have adopted a technique to avoid issuing appointment letters even in today's time. My friend or anyone looking for employment cannot wait and must demand an appointment letter to join, as earning is a critical thing.
Notice period clauses
The notice period clauses for employees and employers are not equal (for employees, one month to leave and for the company, 24 hours to terminate). In my view, the clause for the company to terminate an employee should be "giving 24 hours notice with a month's salary compensation." I think the company purposefully kept the clause "a month's salary compensation" silent. Are the notice period clauses during the probation period justified?
I hope I have clearly stated my queries for suggestions.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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The company issued an appointment letter to my friend two months after joining, following the interview. My friend had to join the company without the appointment letter as he required a job to manage his household. Some companies have adopted a technique to avoid issuing appointment letters even in today's time. My friend or anyone looking for employment cannot wait and must demand an appointment letter to join, as earning is a critical thing.
Notice period clauses
The notice period clauses for employees and employers are not equal (for employees, one month to leave and for the company, 24 hours to terminate). In my view, the clause for the company to terminate an employee should be "giving 24 hours notice with a month's salary compensation." I think the company purposefully kept the clause "a month's salary compensation" silent. Are the notice period clauses during the probation period justified?
I hope I have clearly stated my queries for suggestions.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Colleague,
It is unjust for the contractual notice period to be different for employees and the organization. However, having worked for some time now, your friend can choose to continue or quit by giving one month's notice as it is too late to agitate.
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR Consultant
From India, Mumbai
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It is unjust for the contractual notice period to be different for employees and the organization. However, having worked for some time now, your friend can choose to continue or quit by giving one month's notice as it is too late to agitate.
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR Consultant
From India, Mumbai
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Many thanks for your suggestions. Further, please share your views on the following:
Unjust Contractual Terms
1) For unjust contractual terms regarding notice periods being different for employees and organizations, what are the governmental provisions to control exploitation and provide justice to working classes at all levels of employment? In today's time, although many organizations are trying to adopt good HR practices, there are also organizations that do not follow proper HR policies. Are there uniform HR laws to control and deliver social justice to every worker in the private sector? Many choose to avoid escalating these issues in their career interest, but they suffer financially.
Compensation During Probation
2) In my example, if the company discontinues my friend's services in the last few days of the probation period, can my friend ask for a month's salary compensation? Please note that he hasn't been given a copy of the signed appointment letter as he wrote back to the management requesting to revise some terms, including the notice period, two months ago, but has not heard anything from them to date.
Thanks a lot.
From India, Mumbai
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Unjust Contractual Terms
1) For unjust contractual terms regarding notice periods being different for employees and organizations, what are the governmental provisions to control exploitation and provide justice to working classes at all levels of employment? In today's time, although many organizations are trying to adopt good HR practices, there are also organizations that do not follow proper HR policies. Are there uniform HR laws to control and deliver social justice to every worker in the private sector? Many choose to avoid escalating these issues in their career interest, but they suffer financially.
Compensation During Probation
2) In my example, if the company discontinues my friend's services in the last few days of the probation period, can my friend ask for a month's salary compensation? Please note that he hasn't been given a copy of the signed appointment letter as he wrote back to the management requesting to revise some terms, including the notice period, two months ago, but has not heard anything from them to date.
Thanks a lot.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Colleague,
I do not believe such an unjust practice is very rampant in India to cause concern. On the contrary, in my experience, the practice is to maintain equality in the notice period on both sides. What your friend has been experiencing is rare, and the right thing would have been not to join any company on such terms in the first place. I don't see the need for governmental intervention as it is not a widespread practice.
Regards, Vinayak Nagarkar HR Consultant.
From India, Mumbai
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I do not believe such an unjust practice is very rampant in India to cause concern. On the contrary, in my experience, the practice is to maintain equality in the notice period on both sides. What your friend has been experiencing is rare, and the right thing would have been not to join any company on such terms in the first place. I don't see the need for governmental intervention as it is not a widespread practice.
Regards, Vinayak Nagarkar HR Consultant.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Colleague,
Under any situation, whether during the probation period or in a permanent position, the notice period should be the same for both parties. The appointment letter serves as a contract between the employer and the employee. Legally, this clause in the appointment letter is not valid.
Regards,
Mohit Bansal
Compliance Manager
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Under any situation, whether during the probation period or in a permanent position, the notice period should be the same for both parties. The appointment letter serves as a contract between the employer and the employee. Legally, this clause in the appointment letter is not valid.
Regards,
Mohit Bansal
Compliance Manager
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You mentioned that your friend joined a "proprietorship manufacturing firm." In such firms, the service rules or terms of the contract for senior positions are generally decided by the proprietor. Your friend can now request a change in the conditions. As long as he remains productive and valuable to the organization, he will not be asked to leave.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Appointment Terms and Notice Periods
Such terms like the appointment of appointment, providing for different notice periods, are present, although not very popular. When viewed strictly, such terms are not illegal but are considered unethical and inequitable. An employer in such a situation may argue a valid legal defense stating that these terms were proposed and willingly accepted by the prospective employee in exchange for the consideration offered, thus binding the employee. This is not a contract established through force or misrepresentation, nor does it violate any express provision of the law. Although these terms contradict the age-old principle that a contract's terms must be fair and equitable to both parties, such uneven terms do not automatically make the contract illegal or unenforceable.
From India, Mumbai
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Such terms like the appointment of appointment, providing for different notice periods, are present, although not very popular. When viewed strictly, such terms are not illegal but are considered unethical and inequitable. An employer in such a situation may argue a valid legal defense stating that these terms were proposed and willingly accepted by the prospective employee in exchange for the consideration offered, thus binding the employee. This is not a contract established through force or misrepresentation, nor does it violate any express provision of the law. Although these terms contradict the age-old principle that a contract's terms must be fair and equitable to both parties, such uneven terms do not automatically make the contract illegal or unenforceable.
From India, Mumbai
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With respect to KK HR views:
Unfair Terms and Conditions
The terms and conditions should be equal and fair. That's why my friend didn't sign the appointment letter and requested the management to review and revise them, which they have so far not responded to. Normally, a detailed appointment letter is issued after joining. This concerned organization issued the appointment letter after 2-3 months with many follow-ups. Should my friend or any employee in his place have left the job for not receiving the appointment letter, giving up his bread and butter? Even if he or anyone seeking employment urgently did sign the appointment letter, the terms should be viewed as partial, unfair, unjust, and accepted under a reluctant situation. Some organizations adopt these tactics intentionally so they cannot stand under legal scrutiny. These organizations also have the trend of not giving a confirmation letter after the probation period knowingly, despite the concerned good performing and capable employee sending many emails about the confirmation letter, but the company gets the work done duly by the same employee.
Call for Government Intervention
At a time when we are talking about social justice and fair employment policy, this is a really unfortunate practice being adopted by some organizations. In my opinion, the government should strictly monitor this and enforce strict laws regarding the matter.
From India, Mumbai
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Unfair Terms and Conditions
The terms and conditions should be equal and fair. That's why my friend didn't sign the appointment letter and requested the management to review and revise them, which they have so far not responded to. Normally, a detailed appointment letter is issued after joining. This concerned organization issued the appointment letter after 2-3 months with many follow-ups. Should my friend or any employee in his place have left the job for not receiving the appointment letter, giving up his bread and butter? Even if he or anyone seeking employment urgently did sign the appointment letter, the terms should be viewed as partial, unfair, unjust, and accepted under a reluctant situation. Some organizations adopt these tactics intentionally so they cannot stand under legal scrutiny. These organizations also have the trend of not giving a confirmation letter after the probation period knowingly, despite the concerned good performing and capable employee sending many emails about the confirmation letter, but the company gets the work done duly by the same employee.
Call for Government Intervention
At a time when we are talking about social justice and fair employment policy, this is a really unfortunate practice being adopted by some organizations. In my opinion, the government should strictly monitor this and enforce strict laws regarding the matter.
From India, Mumbai
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I entirely agree that such terms are totally bad and are an unhealthy trend creeping nowadays in the not so professionally managed organizations. Yet it is there and exploiting the unemployment market; there are many organizations doing this. The only point I am making is that it cannot be termed entirely illegal, and no specific provision of law is violated by this clause.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Rethinking the concept of probation period
I have a different take on the concept of the probation period. This could basically be a legacy left behind by the British decades ago. In the good old days, customer databases, communication, etc., were manual or depended on printed documents. With the explosion of modes of communication changing the way we connect with people, the probation period for experienced individuals should not be mandatory for six months. Probation is required for those who are completely new to the workforce, i.e., from campus to corporate. However, for those with work experience shifting from one job to another, why have a probation period at all? If a person with 5 years of experience in sales changes jobs, how much time does he require to get to know the customer base, organization culture, processes, systems, etc.? One month? In an era where people are tech-savvy, why does one need six months to prove their skills? Are we not using the probation period as an excuse for poor performance?
The need for change in probation periods
In a time of rapid change, where we emphasize speed in processors in PCs, mobile phones, connectivity, pizza delivery, 108 ambulance services, why not expect a newcomer to an organization to perform and prove themselves within one or two months? I am opening a Pandora's box here for people to share their opinions.
Case study: Logistics firm in Doha
Last January, I was in Doha, Qatar, advising a 30-year-old logistics firm. They had an issue with employees leaving at short notice, even within the six-month probation period, despite having vast experience in their roles. I suggested reducing the probation period to just one month to assess the person's abilities. They were pleased with my recommendation.
Best wishes
From India, Bengaluru
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I have a different take on the concept of the probation period. This could basically be a legacy left behind by the British decades ago. In the good old days, customer databases, communication, etc., were manual or depended on printed documents. With the explosion of modes of communication changing the way we connect with people, the probation period for experienced individuals should not be mandatory for six months. Probation is required for those who are completely new to the workforce, i.e., from campus to corporate. However, for those with work experience shifting from one job to another, why have a probation period at all? If a person with 5 years of experience in sales changes jobs, how much time does he require to get to know the customer base, organization culture, processes, systems, etc.? One month? In an era where people are tech-savvy, why does one need six months to prove their skills? Are we not using the probation period as an excuse for poor performance?
The need for change in probation periods
In a time of rapid change, where we emphasize speed in processors in PCs, mobile phones, connectivity, pizza delivery, 108 ambulance services, why not expect a newcomer to an organization to perform and prove themselves within one or two months? I am opening a Pandora's box here for people to share their opinions.
Case study: Logistics firm in Doha
Last January, I was in Doha, Qatar, advising a 30-year-old logistics firm. They had an issue with employees leaving at short notice, even within the six-month probation period, despite having vast experience in their roles. I suggested reducing the probation period to just one month to assess the person's abilities. They were pleased with my recommendation.
Best wishes
From India, Bengaluru
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