Can you please advise me if an employee chooses not to attend an office picnic for personal reasons, should he/she be marked present since the office remains closed on that day? Or should a leave be deducted? Logically, I think the employee should be marked present. Kindly share your view.
Thanks
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Yes, you are right. On a closed holiday, an employee cannot be marked absent (unless otherwise it is their duty day). Attending an office picnic, though recommended, should not result in penalization for an employee's inability to attend. Sometimes there are genuine reasons for not attending, such as sickness in the family, a wife's pregnancy, or a relative's marriage ceremony. One should remember that employees are not machines or slaves; they have their own social life and responsibilities, which they plan to attend to during weekly offs or closed holidays.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Shuvra,
The picnic is actually not a holiday, nor is it a working day. So practically, the question of attendance marking does not arise. The day has been chosen for an event—picnic—so that people can have time off from their work and perhaps engage in some team-building games. In this case, we are not to mark the attendance; instead, we mark the day as a picnic day. Since it is not a working day and ideally the person is not absent from work, we do not deduct the leave/pay of the person. Hope it helped.
Regards.
From India, Mumbai
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The picnic is actually not a holiday, nor is it a working day. So practically, the question of attendance marking does not arise. The day has been chosen for an event—picnic—so that people can have time off from their work and perhaps engage in some team-building games. In this case, we are not to mark the attendance; instead, we mark the day as a picnic day. Since it is not a working day and ideally the person is not absent from work, we do not deduct the leave/pay of the person. Hope it helped.
Regards.
From India, Mumbai
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I have a slightly different view than the above members, in that you have to consider:
- Was the picnic day a working day, and that is why the office was closed?
- Was the personal reason given a valid one?
- How would you have treated the absence if it was a normal working day?
Your answers to the above should guide you on how to proceed.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Harsh
From United Kingdom, Barrow
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- Was the picnic day a working day, and that is why the office was closed?
- Was the personal reason given a valid one?
- How would you have treated the absence if it was a normal working day?
Your answers to the above should guide you on how to proceed.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Harsh
From United Kingdom, Barrow
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Hi Harsh, if you could kindly explain how the reason or the day would be of that importance in the attendance marking?
In my firm, we went on a picnic on Saturday (which is ideally a working half-day), and since we have a majorly male staff, the female staff were not comfortable joining the picnic. Picnic is not a mandatory event. Surely, it helps in team building and employee engagement, but how does it help if we force them to come on the picnic?
Deducting leave or pay for not coming on the picnic equals forcing them to come on the picnic or get penalized. Ideally, that's not how it works. A simple example—though children love chocolates, we can't force them to eat one.
These are my views; there can be other views, and I would like to be educated on that.
Thanks.
From India, Mumbai
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In my firm, we went on a picnic on Saturday (which is ideally a working half-day), and since we have a majorly male staff, the female staff were not comfortable joining the picnic. Picnic is not a mandatory event. Surely, it helps in team building and employee engagement, but how does it help if we force them to come on the picnic?
Deducting leave or pay for not coming on the picnic equals forcing them to come on the picnic or get penalized. Ideally, that's not how it works. A simple example—though children love chocolates, we can't force them to eat one.
These are my views; there can be other views, and I would like to be educated on that.
Thanks.
From India, Mumbai
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I understand and appreciate your view. I feel it is important to establish if the picnic was an official event, held on a (normally) working day, and therefore, mandatory. In which case, normal rules would apply. Hence, the need to establish the reason for absence, particularly if the company is spending resources for employee engagement and motivation.
If it was NOT an official event, then attendance should be discretionary (but desirable), in which case no action should be taken because the picnic becomes a purely social event. I agree with you where a group (in your case, all female staff) is uncomfortable, then the WHOLE group should be excused (although this may actually defeat the purpose of a picnic if it was for employee engagement/motivation purposes).
On a more humorous note: my children love chocolate so much, I fear I would never have the opportunity to see if I can FORCE them to eat one!!!
Regards, Harsh
From United Kingdom, Barrow
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If it was NOT an official event, then attendance should be discretionary (but desirable), in which case no action should be taken because the picnic becomes a purely social event. I agree with you where a group (in your case, all female staff) is uncomfortable, then the WHOLE group should be excused (although this may actually defeat the purpose of a picnic if it was for employee engagement/motivation purposes).
On a more humorous note: my children love chocolate so much, I fear I would never have the opportunity to see if I can FORCE them to eat one!!!
Regards, Harsh
From United Kingdom, Barrow
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Harsh has a point; was the picnic held on a working day?
Although it is unlikely that an office picnic is held on a working day and the office is closed on that day, I have covered this rare option: "On a Closed Holiday, an employee cannot be marked absent (unless otherwise that is his duty day)" to cover the option of some employees having a shift working day.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Although it is unlikely that an office picnic is held on a working day and the office is closed on that day, I have covered this rare option: "On a Closed Holiday, an employee cannot be marked absent (unless otherwise that is his duty day)" to cover the option of some employees having a shift working day.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Both Ankita and Harsh have valid points, and the proper action, to me, lies between the two. A picnic is an event but not an official duty, so an employee cannot be compelled to attend it. Given various circumstances, it is left to an employee's option to attend it or not.
Handling Attendance for Office Picnics
If the picnic was held on a holiday, there is no need to mark anything except marking "Sunday" (if held on Sunday and it is a holiday) or simply "holiday" if it was held on any other holiday. There is no need to mark 'present' or 'absent' since the weekly offs (Sundays) or holidays are paid holidays.
If, as Harsh pointed out, the picnic was held on a working day and the office remained closed solely because of the picnic, then that day shall be marked as Picnic Day and shall be treated as a paid day for all, irrespective of whether one attends the picnic or not.
This is my view.
Regards,
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Handling Attendance for Office Picnics
If the picnic was held on a holiday, there is no need to mark anything except marking "Sunday" (if held on Sunday and it is a holiday) or simply "holiday" if it was held on any other holiday. There is no need to mark 'present' or 'absent' since the weekly offs (Sundays) or holidays are paid holidays.
If, as Harsh pointed out, the picnic was held on a working day and the office remained closed solely because of the picnic, then that day shall be marked as Picnic Day and shall be treated as a paid day for all, irrespective of whether one attends the picnic or not.
This is my view.
Regards,
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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I agree with Mr. Harsh because if an employee engagement activity is organized by the employer inside the premises of the company, such as a picnic, and the employer has allocated resources to carry it out successfully (assuming the activity is organized on a working day), in that case, if any employee is absenting himself/herself from that activity, they will be deemed absent from the activity. Therefore, this absenteeism should be considered as leave/absence with due permission from the respective approving authority.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Understanding the Nature of a Picnic as a Social Event
Kindly quote the picnic as a social event if it was planned to release stress and get together for some fun. It is not at all associated with our professional life. Most of the time, picnics are scheduled on weekends in order to avoid routine activities. If they are scheduled on weekdays, no employee can be held responsible for their absenteeism. Even if the management had decided to fund a social event (picnic), it cannot be treated as an official event, nor can employees be held responsible for their attendance.
Differentiating Official Events from Social Gatherings
Official outbound/external events like team building, leadership development, and skill development activities cannot be termed as a picnic. Official events are scheduled on weekdays as they are associated with specific business objectives.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Kindly quote the picnic as a social event if it was planned to release stress and get together for some fun. It is not at all associated with our professional life. Most of the time, picnics are scheduled on weekends in order to avoid routine activities. If they are scheduled on weekdays, no employee can be held responsible for their absenteeism. Even if the management had decided to fund a social event (picnic), it cannot be treated as an official event, nor can employees be held responsible for their attendance.
Differentiating Official Events from Social Gatherings
Official outbound/external events like team building, leadership development, and skill development activities cannot be termed as a picnic. Official events are scheduled on weekdays as they are associated with specific business objectives.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Employee Participation in Non-Mandatory Events
Picnic is not a term or condition of employment. Attendance or absence is concerned with employment. Those who participate in the picnic are welcome; others are excused. There cannot be any thinking of attendance or absence of employees.
Extend this notion, and there are several situations where we will face a similar dilemma. For example:
1. There is a puja for installing a new machine, and pedhas are distributed; one says no to the pedha.
2. There is Dasara puja or similar occasions, and an employee does not participate because of gulal.
3. There is a function of felicitating employees on completing 25 years of service, and an employee does not clap.
4. There is a canteen and subsidized food; an employee brings food from home and does not go to the canteen.
5. There is a transport bus available, but an employee comes on his bicycle.
There may be many more situations like the above. You can add to the list.
In these circumstances, what would be your decision? Nothing, it is the employee's choice.
Regards,
Vibhakar Ramtirthkar.
From India, Pune
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Picnic is not a term or condition of employment. Attendance or absence is concerned with employment. Those who participate in the picnic are welcome; others are excused. There cannot be any thinking of attendance or absence of employees.
Extend this notion, and there are several situations where we will face a similar dilemma. For example:
1. There is a puja for installing a new machine, and pedhas are distributed; one says no to the pedha.
2. There is Dasara puja or similar occasions, and an employee does not participate because of gulal.
3. There is a function of felicitating employees on completing 25 years of service, and an employee does not clap.
4. There is a canteen and subsidized food; an employee brings food from home and does not go to the canteen.
5. There is a transport bus available, but an employee comes on his bicycle.
There may be many more situations like the above. You can add to the list.
In these circumstances, what would be your decision? Nothing, it is the employee's choice.
Regards,
Vibhakar Ramtirthkar.
From India, Pune
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You have received all the details for your food for thought. I have a question for you. Are you paying your employees for productivity or for just showing up each time you call them?
Productivity vs. Presence
An activity away from work cannot be categorized as productivity unless it's a paid training program that can effectively enhance the employee's productivity. A picnic is ideally an unwinding activity where team bonding can be aimed for but may not always be achieved.
If an employee decisively avoids it, you may need to check for the reasons. If it's genuinely justified, you may consider it from a human perspective.
Wishing you all the best!
From India, Mumbai
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Productivity vs. Presence
An activity away from work cannot be categorized as productivity unless it's a paid training program that can effectively enhance the employee's productivity. A picnic is ideally an unwinding activity where team bonding can be aimed for but may not always be achieved.
If an employee decisively avoids it, you may need to check for the reasons. If it's genuinely justified, you may consider it from a human perspective.
Wishing you all the best!
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Prashant, you have raised an interesting point by introducing the phrase 'employee engagement' to describe a 'picnic'. Yes, some companies may organize team-building activities or experiential training sessions outside the office. In such cases, the company usually communicates to all employees that it is an official activity designed for employee engagement or outbound training, and that everyone is expected to attend. If this is the scenario, there should be clear guidelines on how to handle employees who choose not to participate, in line with your response. However, it appears that this is not the situation based on the query.
The individual seeking advice seems to be unsure about how to handle an employee's absence from the picnic, which was likely a collective decision by the employees and sponsored by the office. It would be beneficial for the person seeking advice to provide more clarity on the situation so that members can offer appropriate responses.
Regards,
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Mumbai.
From India, Mumbai
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The individual seeking advice seems to be unsure about how to handle an employee's absence from the picnic, which was likely a collective decision by the employees and sponsored by the office. It would be beneficial for the person seeking advice to provide more clarity on the situation so that members can offer appropriate responses.
Regards,
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Mumbai.
From India, Mumbai
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Companies will organize picnics for the sake of entertaining employees, and if the event falls on a working day, absent employees should request leave. It is the moral responsibility of every employee to attend the company's picnic as it is organized for them to socialize with colleagues and build relationships.
As mentioned by other members, if the picnic is scheduled on a weekly day off, no leave needs to be requested. However, it is a concern if an employee is absent without a valid reason.
I hope this clarifies the policy.
Regards,
Nv Subba Rao
From India, Hyderabad
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As mentioned by other members, if the picnic is scheduled on a weekly day off, no leave needs to be requested. However, it is a concern if an employee is absent without a valid reason.
I hope this clarifies the policy.
Regards,
Nv Subba Rao
From India, Hyderabad
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Arranging a picnic for corporates/offices is meant to boost employee morale and strengthen unity among employees. If an employee is unable to attend the picnic due to personal reasons, it is not a significant issue; however, ultimately, the employee may miss out. Picnics are typically organized on weekends/holidays, and attendance is not a strict requirement.
Regards
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Regards
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The same happened in my office. Due to a certain employee getting a promotion two days before the planned picnic, another group rejected the idea of them going for a day's outing at a theme park. Instead of declaring a holiday for that group and a few others who weren't coming, we ensured they came to the office on that day, ensuring skeletal staff strength. That day turned out to be superb with fun and lots of team bonding. We all got to know each other well. The next day, we uploaded all the pictures and videos on the intranet.
As an HR professional, at times like this, we should casually speak to employees and not in any way force them. At the same time, the firmness of the management should be maintained. "All is well that ends well."
From India, Madras
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As an HR professional, at times like this, we should casually speak to employees and not in any way force them. At the same time, the firmness of the management should be maintained. "All is well that ends well."
From India, Madras
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It is to be analysed whether the office will work as usual if this picnic was not organized? If yes, in such a case, if anyone wishes to not to take part would need to marked leave.
From India, Chennai
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From India, Chennai
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The Principle of Natural Justice
The principle of natural justice and a bit of common sense (sorry for using a strong word to make a point) would dictate that absence will only be valid if the "work" suffers due to such absence.
No picnic or social event replaces regular work for which employees are paid.
From India, Chandigarh
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The principle of natural justice and a bit of common sense (sorry for using a strong word to make a point) would dictate that absence will only be valid if the "work" suffers due to such absence.
No picnic or social event replaces regular work for which employees are paid.
From India, Chandigarh
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Attendance Policy for Office Events
If it was notified earlier that attendance is compulsory, then you will be marked absent if you do not attend. The office is closed for the picnic only. You did not attend the picnic for personal reasons; that is why, in my view, you were marked absent, and one of your holidays will be adjusted.
Regards,
Anil
From Pakistan, Lahore
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If it was notified earlier that attendance is compulsory, then you will be marked absent if you do not attend. The office is closed for the picnic only. You did not attend the picnic for personal reasons; that is why, in my view, you were marked absent, and one of your holidays will be adjusted.
Regards,
Anil
From Pakistan, Lahore
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There are two things:
1) The matters discussed in your wage settlement.
2) What is the practice followed in your organization.
If your settlement paves the way for deduction if a person does not attend the picnic, you may deduct after a proper notice is served to them. This is the process followed in my previous employments.
Regards,
T. Muralidaran
[Phone Number Removed For Privacy Reasons]
From India, Hosur
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1) The matters discussed in your wage settlement.
2) What is the practice followed in your organization.
If your settlement paves the way for deduction if a person does not attend the picnic, you may deduct after a proper notice is served to them. This is the process followed in my previous employments.
Regards,
T. Muralidaran
[Phone Number Removed For Privacy Reasons]
From India, Hosur
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Question About Picnic Attendance Policy
In our company, the picnic is always organized on a Saturday. Our company follows the practice of working six days a week, so we usually have to compensate for this by working on a Sunday. If anyone is not able to attend the picnic, we mark them as absent. Please let me know, from an employee perspective, if this deduction or compensation is valid or not?
Regards,
Mayank
From India, Vadodara
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In our company, the picnic is always organized on a Saturday. Our company follows the practice of working six days a week, so we usually have to compensate for this by working on a Sunday. If anyone is not able to attend the picnic, we mark them as absent. Please let me know, from an employee perspective, if this deduction or compensation is valid or not?
Regards,
Mayank
From India, Vadodara
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Hi Mayank,
Many organizations hold picnics on Saturdays as it is a weekend for two reasons:
1. Even if Saturday is a working day, people are not as productive, and the workload is not as heavy as on a Monday (except in manufacturing or related industries).
2. Sunday can still be spent with family.
I understand that operations are closed due to the picnic. However, I fail to understand why workers have to compensate for the closure on Sunday. If operations cannot be closed and must practice 6 days of working, why not take them to the picnic on Sunday instead?
Another issue is when we follow a 6-day workweek and take people to a picnic with a clause that if absent, leave/pay would be deducted, it is essentially like a working day. Whereas there should be a rest day after at least 6 days of work. If you belong to the manufacturing or related industry, I think the Factory's Act prevents this and requires a full working week.
I believe seniors can provide advice on this.
Regards,
From India, Mumbai
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Many organizations hold picnics on Saturdays as it is a weekend for two reasons:
1. Even if Saturday is a working day, people are not as productive, and the workload is not as heavy as on a Monday (except in manufacturing or related industries).
2. Sunday can still be spent with family.
I understand that operations are closed due to the picnic. However, I fail to understand why workers have to compensate for the closure on Sunday. If operations cannot be closed and must practice 6 days of working, why not take them to the picnic on Sunday instead?
Another issue is when we follow a 6-day workweek and take people to a picnic with a clause that if absent, leave/pay would be deducted, it is essentially like a working day. Whereas there should be a rest day after at least 6 days of work. If you belong to the manufacturing or related industry, I think the Factory's Act prevents this and requires a full working week.
I believe seniors can provide advice on this.
Regards,
From India, Mumbai
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Hey Ankita, First of all, thanks for your quick response to this query. Secondly, yes, we do belong to the Manufacturing Industry. I personally feel that the person attending the picnic should be exempt from compensation. Rather than getting motivated, the employee gets demotivated to join us for the picnic.
Additional Information on the Picnic
In the picnic, we usually have an award ceremony that involves loyalty and recognition awards for the past year.
Regards,
Mayank
From India, Vadodara
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Additional Information on the Picnic
In the picnic, we usually have an award ceremony that involves loyalty and recognition awards for the past year.
Regards,
Mayank
From India, Vadodara
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Ankita raised a valid point. If you are a factory covered by the Factories Act and treat the picnic day as a working day, marking absent an employee who abstains from the picnic and making him work on Sunday, thus requiring him to be present for all six days in a week, how do you manage the weekly off for the employees?
Weekly Off Management Under the Factories Act
Since Sec. 52 of the Factories Act directs that no adult worker shall be allowed to work continuously for 7 days a week, and in other words, he should have a holiday after six days of work in a week. It is not a question of your personal feelings but a statutory requirement.
Regards,
B. Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Weekly Off Management Under the Factories Act
Since Sec. 52 of the Factories Act directs that no adult worker shall be allowed to work continuously for 7 days a week, and in other words, he should have a holiday after six days of work in a week. It is not a question of your personal feelings but a statutory requirement.
Regards,
B. Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Harsh, About the chocolate, try feeding them bitter chocolate, you may have to force it.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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I would like to disagree a bit with Harsh. What is a valid reason for one may not be a valid reason for another. For example, I myself do not enjoy such picnics because whatever may be happening there, one thing that surely happens is LOTS OF DRINKING! I, being a teetotaler, feel sort of like an outcast. Although I am on amicable terms with my colleagues, they cannot enjoy 'those moments—rather hours!' with me.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Employee attendance tracker1.xls
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