Seniors,
This is Barkha. I am working in a startup HR department with an employee strength of 40. One of my company's office boys was working since a year through an outsourced vendor. From Jan '13, he has been taken on the company's payroll. Now we are starting with the PF for our employees with effect from April '2012. Hence, all past PF deductions will be done in the Feb '13 salary, which every employee has agreed to.
Now, this office boy has come up with a concern not to deduct PF for him as his net salary will go down due to his PF contribution. But legally, it is mandatory to include all employees whose basic salary is less than Rs. 6500.
Now, my questions are:
1. If we put him back on an outsourced basis, would it be mandatory for the vendor to deduct his PF?
2. Is it possible to exclude this employee from PF in any way?
Seniors, I am requesting your guidance.
From India, Pune
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4This is Barkha. I am working in a startup HR department with an employee strength of 40. One of my company's office boys was working since a year through an outsourced vendor. From Jan '13, he has been taken on the company's payroll. Now we are starting with the PF for our employees with effect from April '2012. Hence, all past PF deductions will be done in the Feb '13 salary, which every employee has agreed to.
Now, this office boy has come up with a concern not to deduct PF for him as his net salary will go down due to his PF contribution. But legally, it is mandatory to include all employees whose basic salary is less than Rs. 6500.
Now, my questions are:
1. If we put him back on an outsourced basis, would it be mandatory for the vendor to deduct his PF?
2. Is it possible to exclude this employee from PF in any way?
Seniors, I am requesting your guidance.
From India, Pune
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Regardless of whether the employee agrees or not, you have to deduct the PF and ESIC. If the employee is working through a vendor, ask them to provide evidence of the deductions and any remittance; otherwise, do not make the payment. If this step is not taken, government employees may penalize the principal employees.
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you, Mr. Ashok, for your reply. Currently, he is on the company's payroll since 1st Jan '2013. Earlier, for a year, he was on an outsourced basis.
Now, I request your guidance. If we appoint him on a contract directly on the company's payroll, am I supposed to deduct his PF?
From India, Pune
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Now, I request your guidance. If we appoint him on a contract directly on the company's payroll, am I supposed to deduct his PF?
From India, Pune
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Hi, You have deduct and explain what are the benefits of ESIC and PF then definitely he will compromise or agreed on the same
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Barkha,
Statutory compliance is the responsibility of the principal employer; therefore, irrespective of whether the employee is on your payroll or under contract, PF has to be paid and deducted from the employee's salary as well. It is a welfare measure for the employee. Therefore, you will have to cover your employees under PF.
Thanks,
Bijay
From India, Vadodara
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Statutory compliance is the responsibility of the principal employer; therefore, irrespective of whether the employee is on your payroll or under contract, PF has to be paid and deducted from the employee's salary as well. It is a welfare measure for the employee. Therefore, you will have to cover your employees under PF.
Thanks,
Bijay
From India, Vadodara
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Paragraph 32 of the PF scheme prohibits you from deducting past contributions unless it was due to a clerical mistake. In such a case, you are allowed to deduct it from subsequent wages with the written permission of the Inspector.
VARGHESE MATHEW
09961266966
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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VARGHESE MATHEW
09961266966
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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Of course, PF is a very good saving and social security that everyone should have. But still, if the employee is not convinced, then you can do one more thing. You can discontinue his service (if he agrees) and take him on your payroll by adding just 50 or 100 Rs more so that you can avoid the PF deductions in the coming future.
Also, the pending PF for the days he worked under the contractor can be deducted from his F&F and remitted to the PF office under his account. The employer contribution can be claimed from the contractor, or you can deduct from the amount due to the contractor from your company.
From India, Bangalore
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Also, the pending PF for the days he worked under the contractor can be deducted from his F&F and remitted to the PF office under his account. The employer contribution can be claimed from the contractor, or you can deduct from the amount due to the contractor from your company.
From India, Bangalore
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If the employee's PF is not deducted in the earlier company, then there is the option to exempt him from PF deduction. The option is: you can provide him the basic wages above Rs. 7000/- so that he will get exemption from his PF deduction.
TEAM PANACEA.
From India, Pune
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TEAM PANACEA.
From India, Pune
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Better Educate the employee awareness on PF benefits and let him know the difference between onroll and Off roll employment. ksk
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Sir, I have tried and explained to him the benefits of PF. He too understands and accepts it. However, he doesn't want his net salary to be affected because of PF. Earlier, he used to get a net salary of Rs. 6500 as only PT was deducted, not even PF would be deducted, and his new monthly salary will go down, respectively.
Sir, in our company, we have a structure where we recruit people on a retainer ship basis. For them, we do not provide any PF or other benefits. We keep their basis above the PF limit, only offering them a salary out of which PT is deducted.
Kindly advise, is it legally accepted? If it is, even though the office boy's salary is less, I will try to put him on a retainer ship basis. Looking forward to timely guidance.
Hi, You have to deduct and explain the benefits of ESIC and PF; then definitely, he will compromise or agree on the same.
From India, Pune
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Sir, in our company, we have a structure where we recruit people on a retainer ship basis. For them, we do not provide any PF or other benefits. We keep their basis above the PF limit, only offering them a salary out of which PT is deducted.
Kindly advise, is it legally accepted? If it is, even though the office boy's salary is less, I will try to put him on a retainer ship basis. Looking forward to timely guidance.
Hi, You have to deduct and explain the benefits of ESIC and PF; then definitely, he will compromise or agree on the same.
From India, Pune
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Barkha,
As per the above discussion and the critical situation of statutory compliance, I believe that taking the guy on a retainer basis is the best solution. After a specific period of time, maybe after probation and his good performance, you can bring him onto the payroll and increase his CTC so that he would be comfortable in paying the PF amount as well. At such low salaries, it is too hard to convince the employee for more statutory deductions.
Thanks!
From India, Pune
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As per the above discussion and the critical situation of statutory compliance, I believe that taking the guy on a retainer basis is the best solution. After a specific period of time, maybe after probation and his good performance, you can bring him onto the payroll and increase his CTC so that he would be comfortable in paying the PF amount as well. At such low salaries, it is too hard to convince the employee for more statutory deductions.
Thanks!
From India, Pune
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As he is a new employee with you, it would be better to put him under a training period. Then, you won't need to pay him the PF, and he will pay the PF upon completion of his training period. By that time, you can deduct the PF and all. During this time, he might come to understand. Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you, Mr. Mayur, for your advice. I have one small query. If people are on a retainer ship basis (which is essentially a yearly contract that gets revised annually), is it legally correct not to deduct PF even if their salary is less than 6500, as is the case with our office boy.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Hello Barkha,
I would like to solve your query.
If an employee's Basic+D.A. is below 6500/-, then it will be inevitable to deduct the PF from the employee's salary.
As you mentioned in your question that the employee is not ready to deduct the PF, as he is put on the company payroll, so the responsibility of the principal employer is to follow all the statutory compliance.
You have further mentioned above if you show the employee on an outsource basis or contractor basis, it would be mandatory for the immediate employer to deduct the PF amount from employees.
In case the immediate employer has no PF coverage, then it becomes the obligation of the principal employer to deduct the PF on their behalf.
Because the employee is working in your organization, all compliance you will have to take care of whether the employee belongs to outsource/contractor.
You are the principal employer. When an inspection occurs in your premises, the auditor will ask you to show the contractor wages register and attendance register. If his Basic DA comes under the PF ceiling limit, then there might be a demand to show the contribution of those employees.
So it does not matter whether the employees belong to the contractor party or company payroll. All statutory rules and regulations will be applied to employees.
If employees are working in your organization from the contractor's side, then every month take a challan receipt of PF and ESI contribution with a salary summary sheet from the immediate employer, whether he is submitting the contribution adequately or not.
Again, I am suggesting you, if you are the principal employer, then it is your obligation to see all statutory compliance of all employees, which consist of (company payroll, contractor, outsource) because all are working in your organization.
I hope you will be clear on this.
Thanks
From India, Chandigarh
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I would like to solve your query.
If an employee's Basic+D.A. is below 6500/-, then it will be inevitable to deduct the PF from the employee's salary.
As you mentioned in your question that the employee is not ready to deduct the PF, as he is put on the company payroll, so the responsibility of the principal employer is to follow all the statutory compliance.
You have further mentioned above if you show the employee on an outsource basis or contractor basis, it would be mandatory for the immediate employer to deduct the PF amount from employees.
In case the immediate employer has no PF coverage, then it becomes the obligation of the principal employer to deduct the PF on their behalf.
Because the employee is working in your organization, all compliance you will have to take care of whether the employee belongs to outsource/contractor.
You are the principal employer. When an inspection occurs in your premises, the auditor will ask you to show the contractor wages register and attendance register. If his Basic DA comes under the PF ceiling limit, then there might be a demand to show the contribution of those employees.
So it does not matter whether the employees belong to the contractor party or company payroll. All statutory rules and regulations will be applied to employees.
If employees are working in your organization from the contractor's side, then every month take a challan receipt of PF and ESI contribution with a salary summary sheet from the immediate employer, whether he is submitting the contribution adequately or not.
Again, I am suggesting you, if you are the principal employer, then it is your obligation to see all statutory compliance of all employees, which consist of (company payroll, contractor, outsource) because all are working in your organization.
I hope you will be clear on this.
Thanks
From India, Chandigarh
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Option 1: You can put him on a fixed-term contract for not more than 1 year and show a consolidated wage above 6500 to avoid PF contributions. Please keep in mind that if the employee completes 240 days of service and you plan to renew his FTC, there is a possibility that he may claim permanency.
Option 2: Please increase his salary to cover the extent of PF contributions. In the subsequent year, you may hold his increments to nullify this increase.
My suggestion is to go with option 2. Your decision should be based on your company policy.
From India, Chennai
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Option 2: Please increase his salary to cover the extent of PF contributions. In the subsequent year, you may hold his increments to nullify this increase.
My suggestion is to go with option 2. Your decision should be based on your company policy.
From India, Chennai
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Dear Barkha,
1) If you put him again on an outsourced basis, then it is mandatory for the vendor to deduct PF if his strength is more than 20 employees.
2) The second method is to put him on Voucher Payment. However, legally, it is not the right method. It may cause some problems with PF in the future.
With Regards,
Vineet Deshmukh
From India, Yavatmal
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1) If you put him again on an outsourced basis, then it is mandatory for the vendor to deduct PF if his strength is more than 20 employees.
2) The second method is to put him on Voucher Payment. However, legally, it is not the right method. It may cause some problems with PF in the future.
With Regards,
Vineet Deshmukh
From India, Yavatmal
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Seniors,
This is Barkha. I am working in a startup HR department with an employee strength of 40. One of my company's office boys was working for a year through an outsourced vendor. From Jan '13, he has been taken on the company's payroll. Now, we are starting with the PF for our employees with effect from April '2012. Hence, all past PF deductions will be done in the Feb '13 salary, which every employee has agreed to.
Now, this office boy has raised a concern about not deducting PF for him as his net salary will decrease due to his PF contribution. But legally, it is mandatory to include all employees whose basic salary is less than Rs. 6500.
Now, my questions are:
1. If we put him back on an outsourced basis, would it be mandatory for the vendor to deduct his PF?
2. Is there any way we can avoid including this employee in PF under any circumstances?
Seniors, I request your guidance.
THE BEST WAY AND OPTION IS TO TAKE HIM ONTO YOUR PAYROLL BUT ENSURE HIS NET TAKE-HOME SALARY REMAINS THE SAME... INCLUDE PF CONTRIBUTION, ESI, AND EMPLOYEE PF ON TOP... THIS MAY RESULT IN A SLIGHT INCREASE IN CTC, BUT THIS WAY YOU CAN RETAIN HIM, KEEP HIM MOTIVATED, AND IT'S BETTER TO CARE FOR SOMEONE ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH YOUR ENVIRONMENT RATHER THAN HIRING SOMEONE NEW... BEST WISHES,
RAJESH SATYAL, HEAD HR, VALUEPEOPLE, AFORESERVE GROUP.
From India
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This is Barkha. I am working in a startup HR department with an employee strength of 40. One of my company's office boys was working for a year through an outsourced vendor. From Jan '13, he has been taken on the company's payroll. Now, we are starting with the PF for our employees with effect from April '2012. Hence, all past PF deductions will be done in the Feb '13 salary, which every employee has agreed to.
Now, this office boy has raised a concern about not deducting PF for him as his net salary will decrease due to his PF contribution. But legally, it is mandatory to include all employees whose basic salary is less than Rs. 6500.
Now, my questions are:
1. If we put him back on an outsourced basis, would it be mandatory for the vendor to deduct his PF?
2. Is there any way we can avoid including this employee in PF under any circumstances?
Seniors, I request your guidance.
THE BEST WAY AND OPTION IS TO TAKE HIM ONTO YOUR PAYROLL BUT ENSURE HIS NET TAKE-HOME SALARY REMAINS THE SAME... INCLUDE PF CONTRIBUTION, ESI, AND EMPLOYEE PF ON TOP... THIS MAY RESULT IN A SLIGHT INCREASE IN CTC, BUT THIS WAY YOU CAN RETAIN HIM, KEEP HIM MOTIVATED, AND IT'S BETTER TO CARE FOR SOMEONE ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH YOUR ENVIRONMENT RATHER THAN HIRING SOMEONE NEW... BEST WISHES,
RAJESH SATYAL, HEAD HR, VALUEPEOPLE, AFORESERVE GROUP.
From India
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Barkha, It doesnt matters to pay PF for retainer ship employees. Its not mandate, neither required to pay PF.. its only the Fees need to paid monthly. No legal obligations as such!
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Dear Barkha,
Before giving any view, I have some questions:
1. Can you guide us on the employee strength during the year 2012, whether it was below 20 or not?
2. The office boy joined your company's payroll in Jan 2013, so before that, he was not on your muster roll or in the salary register. This means he was not your employee statutorily in the year 2012.
3. If he was working through an outsourced vendor, do you have a Registration Certificate for deploying contract labor in your premises as a principal employer? Have you maintained the Form XII register as per the CLR Act?
There are several statutory considerations here, so please provide more information regarding your issue so that we can assist you accordingly.
Thanks and regards,
Ratikanta Rath
From India, Durgapur
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Before giving any view, I have some questions:
1. Can you guide us on the employee strength during the year 2012, whether it was below 20 or not?
2. The office boy joined your company's payroll in Jan 2013, so before that, he was not on your muster roll or in the salary register. This means he was not your employee statutorily in the year 2012.
3. If he was working through an outsourced vendor, do you have a Registration Certificate for deploying contract labor in your premises as a principal employer? Have you maintained the Form XII register as per the CLR Act?
There are several statutory considerations here, so please provide more information regarding your issue so that we can assist you accordingly.
Thanks and regards,
Ratikanta Rath
From India, Durgapur
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Dear Barkha,
I appreciate the views of Mr. Rajesh Satyal. Thanks, Mr. Satyal, for your kind input. On the contrary, I am really surprised to see the others' views on such a small issue. My simple view in this case is if you do good, you will receive good only. In this case, I found everybody juggling their minds on a petty thing like PF, which is only a matter of a few hundred rupees and that too in line with the statute. Let us think that we all are humans and have some responsibility towards others as well as society. An HR person should be in a position to protect the interests of both the employee and the employer within the legal frame and the budget of the company.
Please ensure that the said person is properly benefited and motivated from your end such that he performs, grows, and is retained for a long time in the company, giving his best loyalty, dedication, and integrity.
Thanks,
Bijay
From India, Vadodara
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I appreciate the views of Mr. Rajesh Satyal. Thanks, Mr. Satyal, for your kind input. On the contrary, I am really surprised to see the others' views on such a small issue. My simple view in this case is if you do good, you will receive good only. In this case, I found everybody juggling their minds on a petty thing like PF, which is only a matter of a few hundred rupees and that too in line with the statute. Let us think that we all are humans and have some responsibility towards others as well as society. An HR person should be in a position to protect the interests of both the employee and the employer within the legal frame and the budget of the company.
Please ensure that the said person is properly benefited and motivated from your end such that he performs, grows, and is retained for a long time in the company, giving his best loyalty, dedication, and integrity.
Thanks,
Bijay
From India, Vadodara
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Statutory Compliance of a Industrial or Commercial Unit.xls
Statutory-compl iance.pdf
Statutory Compliance.zip