I would like to get your opinion regarding one of our female staff members who was illegally pregnant (while single) and had an induced abortion. I would like to know what legal grounds would allow us to terminate her employment as the management has decided to end her relationship with our company. Please note that we are based in the UAE, where strict rules are in place stating that a woman cannot be pregnant in Dubai without a legitimate marriage contract. However, I am unable to find the exact article that would serve as the basis for her termination.
Regards.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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1Regards.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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It is a most unfortunate incident. To terminate her services is something that the "feminist," "women's lib," and people in developed democratic countries would find highly objectionable. Even undergoing abortion is considered evil, as it amounts to killing an unborn baby for none of its fault. Moreover, it is debatable whether unwed mothers should be looked down upon or carry a stigma in a world where divorce has become so common, and live-in relationships have become legal.
Having said that, I understand your predicament. If it is the Law of the Land, then it has to be complied with. Where does this law exist? Find out the relevant references of the Act or statute. Without quoting the exact clause/wordings, you can refer to it in the Termination letter. But the most advisable line of action would be to counsel and convince her to submit her resignation.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Having said that, I understand your predicament. If it is the Law of the Land, then it has to be complied with. Where does this law exist? Find out the relevant references of the Act or statute. Without quoting the exact clause/wordings, you can refer to it in the Termination letter. But the most advisable line of action would be to counsel and convince her to submit her resignation.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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I appreciate all your comments. I also believe in LIFE and RESPECT. That was the main reason why I continue to pursue my passion in the field of Human Resources. It is valuable to consider the perspectives of my fellow professionals. Previously, I worked as a Social Worker in my home country, so I have a deep understanding of the challenges faced by women worldwide. I see her as a victim of the circumstances, and given the opportunity, she would not choose to be in the same situation again. I want to assure everyone who has shared their opinions that her case will remain confidential, in line with our ethical responsibilities as HR professionals. Our decisions may vary based on the norms of different countries, and it is essential for us to respect and appreciate cultural diversity.
Regardless of the environment, cultural differences, and beliefs, the guiding factor in our decisions should always be the principles of life.
Regarding Her Case
After considering the laws of the country and the company's perspective, I have recommended to management that we have a transparent discussion with her about the situation. Termination is not an option; instead, we will assist her in leaving the company with dignity and support her in finding another job. I have also proposed to management that my co-HOD, who was involved in the situation, be terminated instead.
I extend my gratitude to all for your comments and advice.
More power to Cite.HR and sincere appreciation for all your contributions.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Regardless of the environment, cultural differences, and beliefs, the guiding factor in our decisions should always be the principles of life.
Regarding Her Case
After considering the laws of the country and the company's perspective, I have recommended to management that we have a transparent discussion with her about the situation. Termination is not an option; instead, we will assist her in leaving the company with dignity and support her in finding another job. I have also proposed to management that my co-HOD, who was involved in the situation, be terminated instead.
I extend my gratitude to all for your comments and advice.
More power to Cite.HR and sincere appreciation for all your contributions.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Termination of Employment Due to Pregnancy
Can anyone explain why she needs to be terminated? She had a relationship with someone which resulted in her getting pregnant due to unprotected sex or maybe due to coercion. Rape law can be applicable in this case if it is someone from within your office. Instead of terminating her and making a big hue and cry as an HR manager, you should be sensitive to this issue to avoid illegal termination of someone's job. Where in your company's rule book is it written that an employee can be terminated for having sex and getting pregnant? The Constitution of India has no clear guidelines on the same either, and if that has nothing to tell you what to do, you better not apply your brains on this.
From India, Mumbai
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Can anyone explain why she needs to be terminated? She had a relationship with someone which resulted in her getting pregnant due to unprotected sex or maybe due to coercion. Rape law can be applicable in this case if it is someone from within your office. Instead of terminating her and making a big hue and cry as an HR manager, you should be sensitive to this issue to avoid illegal termination of someone's job. Where in your company's rule book is it written that an employee can be terminated for having sex and getting pregnant? The Constitution of India has no clear guidelines on the same either, and if that has nothing to tell you what to do, you better not apply your brains on this.
From India, Mumbai
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First of all, there is no such term as "Illegally Pregnant"—if you try to define it, you will see what I mean. If a child was born due to rape, the act of rape was illegal, and the child's status is illegitimate. But being pregnant itself is not illegal.
The law actually states that you cannot bear a child out of wedlock, but even if we accept your interpretation, then you must accept that this is a moral law and not a criminal law.
Secondly, a woman will never have the intention of getting pregnant, knowing that the law will be broken; clearly, a mistake has occurred. The mistake has been corrected by way of abortion. Now the question arises, was the abortion illegal?
Third, there is no law—civil or criminal—that states that a woman should lose her job in this situation. Therefore, where does the company's or management's morality lie? Is this woman in breach of company rules and regulations? I suspect not.
I offer no opinion as to the action you should take. I do ask you, however, to question yourself and the motives of management...
Regards,
Harsh
From United Kingdom, Barrow
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The law actually states that you cannot bear a child out of wedlock, but even if we accept your interpretation, then you must accept that this is a moral law and not a criminal law.
Secondly, a woman will never have the intention of getting pregnant, knowing that the law will be broken; clearly, a mistake has occurred. The mistake has been corrected by way of abortion. Now the question arises, was the abortion illegal?
Third, there is no law—civil or criminal—that states that a woman should lose her job in this situation. Therefore, where does the company's or management's morality lie? Is this woman in breach of company rules and regulations? I suspect not.
I offer no opinion as to the action you should take. I do ask you, however, to question yourself and the motives of management...
Regards,
Harsh
From United Kingdom, Barrow
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I agree with Mr. Dharmesh's comments. If a woman has an illegal pregnancy and the father does not work in the same organization, please do not terminate her. If the news spreads within the organization, kindly seek her permission to initiate exit formalities. However, if she is pregnant with a co-employee or someone within the organization, please terminate both individuals.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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Your lines "Termination shall be out of the question, and will let her leave the company with dignity and will let her find another job and consider her case closed. I also proposed to the management to terminate instead my co-HOD who had caused the same" are indeed VERY profound and apply to this situation quite well. It's not an issue of 'whether it's a consensual act or not'—the issue is one of equal liability and responsibility for the consequences thereof. And more so when the male in question happens to be in the same organization and at a higher position/level.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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It is sad that we take a saintly position only in the case of a woman. I wish to know, did she get pregnant on her own or did she have a male partner? What action is the organization contemplating against that individual?
The Second Aspect of the Whole Episode
Was it consensual sex or coerced? To punish a woman without going through the facts is preposterous.
Regards,
Munshi
From India, Delhi
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The Second Aspect of the Whole Episode
Was it consensual sex or coerced? To punish a woman without going through the facts is preposterous.
Regards,
Munshi
From India, Delhi
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Past is past now, and please let her continue to offer her services. It was a mistake committed under the influence of the devil, which is most common in youngsters. Let her start a new life, and I am sure she will never repeat such a mistake in the future. She will realize what it takes for a woman to become a mother. I feel she still has an immature personality.
The Role of Choice and Forgiveness
The ruler of Dubai had set up both a bar and a mosque. It's up to the individuals to choose. Humans are born to make mistakes, but she alone cannot be taken for a long ride as one needs two hands to clap. What about her companion? Why is his company not taking similar action against him because he is equally involved in that incident? Why one law for females and another law for males?
We must learn to forgive and support others to rectify their own mistakes.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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The Role of Choice and Forgiveness
The ruler of Dubai had set up both a bar and a mosque. It's up to the individuals to choose. Humans are born to make mistakes, but she alone cannot be taken for a long ride as one needs two hands to clap. What about her companion? Why is his company not taking similar action against him because he is equally involved in that incident? Why one law for females and another law for males?
We must learn to forgive and support others to rectify their own mistakes.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Law of the Land Applies
Each country has different laws. Thank God it happened in Saudi. Just imagine if it had happened in Saudi, she would have been stoned to death. The HR person who brought this up has responded with a lot of sensitivity towards the dignity of the lady in question. Really appreciate that.
From United+States, San+Francisco
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Each country has different laws. Thank God it happened in Saudi. Just imagine if it had happened in Saudi, she would have been stoned to death. The HR person who brought this up has responded with a lot of sensitivity towards the dignity of the lady in question. Really appreciate that.
From United+States, San+Francisco
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Protection of Employees' Rights
Actually, there is no provision for termination based on such a pregnancy or an abortion. She has already punished herself by having an abortion and is now continuing with her job. A lady must be protected from such coercive steps by management. It is her decision to leave the job based on her moral convictions. If we know the person who has coerced her, they should be prosecuted.
Regards,
Satish Verma, Nashik
From India, Nasik
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Actually, there is no provision for termination based on such a pregnancy or an abortion. She has already punished herself by having an abortion and is now continuing with her job. A lady must be protected from such coercive steps by management. It is her decision to leave the job based on her moral convictions. If we know the person who has coerced her, they should be prosecuted.
Regards,
Satish Verma, Nashik
From India, Nasik
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I was in Doha as Manager - HR. You should be careful when you make such a comment. It is not India, where you can talk about anything and get away with it. Don't unnecessarily involve yourself in it. There is a law of the land, of which your owner is aware. It is highly sensitive. It's better to bury it rather than go public. Women are always victims of circumstances, so don't be harsh with your decisions. In Dubai, these things may be happening without much exposure. As HR head, ask your owner to deal with utmost care and sensitivity.
Regards.
From India, Bangalore
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Regards.
From India, Bangalore
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I don't know the term "illegal pregnancy." As per UAE law, abortion is not permitted. Police will take action, and the lady will definitely get a permanent entry restriction in the UAE, especially if she is unmarried and found pregnant.
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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It all depends on your internal rules, standing orders, and applicable laws for employees in Saudi Arabia. In India, at least for such conduct, we cannot punish an employee since it has nothing to do with her employment. However, if it is considered a crime in Saudi Arabia, and if indulging in any crime is covered in the service rules or appointment letter applicable to her, then you can follow the course of action laid down as per those rules. If it warrants an inquiry, then the same should be done. If it calls for immediate dismissal, then it can be resorted to, not otherwise.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Impact on Company Discipline and Culture
Though this should be encouraged, it will weaken the discipline of our companies. This is a stigma on our working culture as well as on society. No religion allows this. However, the work of the company has not suffered, but concerned staff members should be counseled, and strict warnings should be issued to avoid such cases in the future.
Regards
From India, Patiala
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Though this should be encouraged, it will weaken the discipline of our companies. This is a stigma on our working culture as well as on society. No religion allows this. However, the work of the company has not suffered, but concerned staff members should be counseled, and strict warnings should be issued to avoid such cases in the future.
Regards
From India, Patiala
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Considerations for Termination Due to Pregnancy in the Middle East
Which country does she belong to? The first thing is that she should come out of the Middle East safely. Her safety is the priority. A person cannot be terminated in India just because of pregnancy; therefore, if yours is an Indian company and she has been deputed there, then you cannot terminate her. What she has done may be morally incorrect but might have happened in a weak moment or whatever—only she can explain the circumstances. It's better not to judge.
If there is a risk to her life or if she is likely to be arrested if you legally terminate her due to pregnancy, then please speak to her, inform her about the risks involved, and request her to resign and leave the Middle East before any controversies arise.
Regards,
Gayatri
From India, Chandigarh
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Which country does she belong to? The first thing is that she should come out of the Middle East safely. Her safety is the priority. A person cannot be terminated in India just because of pregnancy; therefore, if yours is an Indian company and she has been deputed there, then you cannot terminate her. What she has done may be morally incorrect but might have happened in a weak moment or whatever—only she can explain the circumstances. It's better not to judge.
If there is a risk to her life or if she is likely to be arrested if you legally terminate her due to pregnancy, then please speak to her, inform her about the risks involved, and request her to resign and leave the Middle East before any controversies arise.
Regards,
Gayatri
From India, Chandigarh
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If it comes to the worst, "it is better that she should be allowed to resign, get her dues settled calmly, and ensure that she lands in India safely with clear documents." The poor girl deserves all sympathy and support in this unfortunate, precarious situation she is in. Just for my information - wouldn't the hospital where the abortion was done face legal obligations? If so, how can she escape from this danger?
Regards,
Kumar S.
From India, Bangalore
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Regards,
Kumar S.
From India, Bangalore
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Though the issue appears to be closed, the question you raised remains. Thanks for posting and creating an awareness of such a situation.
Maternity Benefits and Childcare Under Indian Labour Laws
As far as Indian Labour Laws and government rules for maternity benefits and childcare are concerned, it is all about whether the female employee requires rest, leave, and support for confinement and delivery, and care for the child. The conception, whether it is legal or illegal, is beyond the question. It is the individual's right. She might have become pregnant by fertility treatment, by consensual sex without marriage, or rape. The fact of carrying a child entitles her to the maternity benefits.
Ethics, Country-Specific Rules, and Company Policies
- It should be ensured whether the country's rules regarding moral behavior/crimes interfere with an individual's contract of employment.
- Whether the employer should take cognizance of such happenings. When it is not so, the employer is acting beyond his powers.
- Unless the facts are brought on record by recording evidence, such facts are difficult to take action on.
- In these days of single mothers, having a child without wedlock, if your company continues with old morals, the company will end up winding up.
We don't recommend immorality, but changes in the workplace should be noted by the company.
Regards,
Priyan
From India, Mumbai
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Maternity Benefits and Childcare Under Indian Labour Laws
As far as Indian Labour Laws and government rules for maternity benefits and childcare are concerned, it is all about whether the female employee requires rest, leave, and support for confinement and delivery, and care for the child. The conception, whether it is legal or illegal, is beyond the question. It is the individual's right. She might have become pregnant by fertility treatment, by consensual sex without marriage, or rape. The fact of carrying a child entitles her to the maternity benefits.
Ethics, Country-Specific Rules, and Company Policies
- It should be ensured whether the country's rules regarding moral behavior/crimes interfere with an individual's contract of employment.
- Whether the employer should take cognizance of such happenings. When it is not so, the employer is acting beyond his powers.
- Unless the facts are brought on record by recording evidence, such facts are difficult to take action on.
- In these days of single mothers, having a child without wedlock, if your company continues with old morals, the company will end up winding up.
We don't recommend immorality, but changes in the workplace should be noted by the company.
Regards,
Priyan
From India, Mumbai
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I agree with Mr. Dharmesh Doshi. If you want to terminate someone, there is no need to provide any reasons. However, you should not mention the reason in the termination letter. Everyone has their personal life. Please check your company's rules and policy; you will most likely not find any such rules or policies in your company's management framework. If you still decide to take termination action, call her and discuss the matter with her in person. Try to persuade her to submit her resignation and resolve the issue.
Regards,
Dushyant Shah
From India, Pune
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Regards,
Dushyant Shah
From India, Pune
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I have noticed some typographical mistakes in my previous post and would like to make some additions. Please read it as follows: The issue has raised awareness of a situation that requires a sympathetic approach. "Country-specific rules" should be read where it appears. If your company operates in multiple countries, it cannot act as a moral police for each country. With changes occurring in every field and shifts in cultures and morals across various countries, an individual's contribution to the company should be the main factor in deciding the continuation or dismissal of an employee.
Thank you.
Regards,
Priyan
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you.
Regards,
Priyan
From India, Mumbai
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The issue has created awareness of such a situation, which calls for a sympathetic approach.
Country-Specific Rules
If your company operates in many countries, it cannot function as the moral police for each nation. With changes occurring in every field and shifts in cultures and morals across countries, an individual's contribution to the company should be the priority in deciding the continuance or dismissal of an employee.
Thanks.
Priyan
The issue is not about acting as the moral police of the country. However, the law of the land must be complied with. In the UAE, getting pregnant out of wedlock is a crime and a punishable offense. Once a person has committed a crime according to the law of the land, the company must act immediately. If not, the company could be in danger of losing its license to operate. We should appreciate the management for only removing the lady concerned and not informing law enforcers. If they did, she would be jailed, and after serving her sentence, she would be deported with a permanent bar from entering the UAE. This means she cannot obtain a visa for most countries and may not secure a job abroad. They are not ruining her career; they are, in fact, allowing her to leave so she can rebuild her life elsewhere. They are also not informing law enforcement agencies, which we need to appreciate. Additionally, the way Pinky is handling the situation by being very sensitive to the human side of the lady concerned deserves appreciation.
Most of us come from democratic countries like India, the USA, and European countries. However, we must realize that major parts of the world are not democratic. Therefore, they do not have such broad democratic principles of governance.
Comparing the laws of democratic countries and expecting them to be applied in a non-democratic country is impractical and unrealistic.
From Nigeria
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Country-Specific Rules
If your company operates in many countries, it cannot function as the moral police for each nation. With changes occurring in every field and shifts in cultures and morals across countries, an individual's contribution to the company should be the priority in deciding the continuance or dismissal of an employee.
Thanks.
Priyan
The issue is not about acting as the moral police of the country. However, the law of the land must be complied with. In the UAE, getting pregnant out of wedlock is a crime and a punishable offense. Once a person has committed a crime according to the law of the land, the company must act immediately. If not, the company could be in danger of losing its license to operate. We should appreciate the management for only removing the lady concerned and not informing law enforcers. If they did, she would be jailed, and after serving her sentence, she would be deported with a permanent bar from entering the UAE. This means she cannot obtain a visa for most countries and may not secure a job abroad. They are not ruining her career; they are, in fact, allowing her to leave so she can rebuild her life elsewhere. They are also not informing law enforcement agencies, which we need to appreciate. Additionally, the way Pinky is handling the situation by being very sensitive to the human side of the lady concerned deserves appreciation.
Most of us come from democratic countries like India, the USA, and European countries. However, we must realize that major parts of the world are not democratic. Therefore, they do not have such broad democratic principles of governance.
Comparing the laws of democratic countries and expecting them to be applied in a non-democratic country is impractical and unrealistic.
From Nigeria
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Dear all, you all have separate comments on this issue, and that reflects each one's perspective. I appreciate all of them. Whether it's India or Dubai, HR cannot simply enforce its rules, regulations, and laws. These situations should be handled with tender care.
Whenever a woman undergoes an abortion, it often means she has some fear regarding losing her job or facing societal judgment. Please take care of her during this critical time. Being an HR person, deal with her softly. Advise her not to repeat this action and be aware of societal expectations. Don't ask for resignation unless the female employee's nature or character is significantly different, abnormal, or indifferent even with your support.
From India, Kolkata
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Whenever a woman undergoes an abortion, it often means she has some fear regarding losing her job or facing societal judgment. Please take care of her during this critical time. Being an HR person, deal with her softly. Advise her not to repeat this action and be aware of societal expectations. Don't ask for resignation unless the female employee's nature or character is significantly different, abnormal, or indifferent even with your support.
From India, Kolkata
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If you believe that your hotel and this staff member will face problems, which may be right, then you should not have escalated this issue. Instead, you should have simply discussed this matter one-on-one with the staff member and asked her to resign. Please do not terminate her; rather, ask her to resign so that she can seek another job, leaving her past behind.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Congratulations on posing the most innovative question thus far for the year 2013. What gave you the idea that being pregnant means she isn't single? Have you heard about surrogacy?
How did you come to the conclusion that she became pregnant in the UAE? She might have been pregnant when out of the UAE and then came back to the UAE. There is also a possibility that she was drugged and raped by some pervert, hence she took such steps.
In strict terms, being single means being not married, but being single nowhere states anything about being a mother or not being a mother (there is a difference between the two). If we go in reverse style, everybody who is married and not having a child should be single, right? Well, it isn't so...
I have been seeing a lot of members herein speaking about religion and morals, etc. I would like to ask such members, who made them caretakers of society and watchdogs of morals.
CiteHR's Purpose
CiteHR was started with the intention of creating a strong and common platform for professionals, where professional, educated, wise, and learned HR professionals could come and share experiences and knowledge. However, some members have decided to self-appoint themselves as messiahs of religion, morals, and conduct, and I believe they will turn this CiteHR into some Khap panchayat.
Moderators are hereby requested to please take notice of the same and act accordingly. People who want to talk about religion or discuss religion under the cloak of some professional issues, please do so in some other forum and not in CiteHR. Members of CiteHR are interested in getting influenced by knowledge and nothing else.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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How did you come to the conclusion that she became pregnant in the UAE? She might have been pregnant when out of the UAE and then came back to the UAE. There is also a possibility that she was drugged and raped by some pervert, hence she took such steps.
In strict terms, being single means being not married, but being single nowhere states anything about being a mother or not being a mother (there is a difference between the two). If we go in reverse style, everybody who is married and not having a child should be single, right? Well, it isn't so...
I have been seeing a lot of members herein speaking about religion and morals, etc. I would like to ask such members, who made them caretakers of society and watchdogs of morals.
CiteHR's Purpose
CiteHR was started with the intention of creating a strong and common platform for professionals, where professional, educated, wise, and learned HR professionals could come and share experiences and knowledge. However, some members have decided to self-appoint themselves as messiahs of religion, morals, and conduct, and I believe they will turn this CiteHR into some Khap panchayat.
Moderators are hereby requested to please take notice of the same and act accordingly. People who want to talk about religion or discuss religion under the cloak of some professional issues, please do so in some other forum and not in CiteHR. Members of CiteHR are interested in getting influenced by knowledge and nothing else.
Regards,
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
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