Thread Started by #krushna-chandra-panda

My freind joined in a proprietorship manufacturing firm having two units and employing more than 100 employees and workers. In the appointment letter issued to him it mentions that the company can terminate/discontinue his services giving 24 hours notice whereas if the employee wants to leave the job, requires to give a month's notice. It appears the T & C is biased and one sided. Can someone suggest the validity of this T & C
27th December 2018 From India, Mumbai
The title of the thred and the content of the question seem to be at variance.
Notice period for a probationer and a confirmed employee can be different.
But if the notice period mentioned in the post pertains to a confirmed employee, it is certainly biased and cannot stand legal scrutiny in case of any dispute later in this regard.
28th December 2018 From India, Salem
Probation is akin to "Appointment against a Permanent Position" with the Proviso that Once & after the Performance & Behavious of the Probationar is Found Satisfactory" s/he is confirmed against that Permannet Position. Hence, Notice Period for and in case of Probationer is A Misnomer as Probationers such Provisional Appointment can be Terminated by virtue of Unsatisfactory Performance 7 Behavior and the Probation during his/her Propbationary Period can Quit ifs/he so decided without observing any Any Notice Period, Just Notice so to do shall suffice.
Kritarth Team followed this for over 4 Decade Now.
Kritarth Team,
29 Dec 2018
29th December 2018 From India, Delhi
Sirs/Madams,
Thank you for your suggestions.
My query is that my freind is nearing to complete probation in 15 days. If in this period my freind wants to discontinue, 1 month notice period is required as per the clause of the appointment letter whereas if company wants to discontinue his services, then it can do so by giving 24 hours notice. Considering the above biased clauses, can the company terminate him (or a probationer) by giving 24 hours notice and without 1 month's salary compensation??
Further, my freind has not signed the appointment letter and written letter requesting to revise few terms and conditions including notice period. But no reply received from the company so far although 2-3 months passed. Now in the circumstances if company discontinues his services then what would be the compensation my freind can claim? My freind is in a senior position having more than 15 years experience and company has also not written anything unsatisfactory as regard to his performance and conduct.
Please suggest and guide.
29th December 2018 From India, Mumbai
With due regard to the view of the learned member from M/S Kritarth Consulting, I have a different perception about the concept of probation in employment and hence I would like to uphold the necessity for a compulsory period of probation immediately following the joining of a new entrant in any organization not only freshers but also experienced candidates. Freshers, despite their brilliant academic records, would certainly need some time to gain practical knowledge and the nuances of their behaviour within the closed social group of employees of the same organization. Thus, it is a predetermined and limited phase or brief duration of time demanding more of orientation to the post held and understanding the work culture of the organization than that of the mere discharge of the mundane responsibilities attached to it. Therefore, it would not be simply appropriate on the part of the employer declaring subjectively in a day or two that the new comer would not fit into the organization and showing the exit nor would it be appropriate on the part of the newcomer to simply walk out the moment he thinks the job is demanding or the work atmosphere is tense.
Coming to the latest query of the questioner, being a senior, his friend would have asked to revise the offer on his lines or simply rejected it instead of joining.
However at this juncture, there are two possibilities in my opinion:
(a)The management may consider the changes solicited and agree at the end of the probation period and confirm him or simply discharge him citing the termination clause in the offer.
OR
(b) May accept the resignation subject to fulfillment of the notice condition in entirety and demand 15 day's salary towards unserved notice period or adjust it in his last month's salary.
29th December 2018 From India, Salem
Respected Sir,
Thanks for your valuable opinions.
1) The company issued appointment letter to my freind after 2 months of joining following interview. My freind had to join the company without appointment letter as he required a job to manage his households. Some companies have adopted a technique to avoid appointment letters even today's time. My freind or anyone who is looking for an employment can not wait and demand for appointment letter to join as earning is very critical thing.
2) The notice period clauses for employee and employer are not equal ( for employee 1 month to leave and for company 24 hours to terminate). As per my view the clause for the company to terminate an employee should be " giving 24 hours notice with a month's salary compensation". I think purposefully the company kept the clause " a month's salary compensation" silent. Are the notice period clauses during probation period justified?
Hope I have ably written my queries for suggestions.
Thanks.
29th December 2018 From India, Mumbai
Dear Colleague,
It is unjust contractual term of notice period being kept different for employee and the organisation.
But having worked for some time now, your friend can continue, or quit by giving one month's notice as it is too late to agitate.
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR- Consultant
30th December 2018 From India, Mumbai
Vinayak Sir,
Many thanks for your suggestions. Further, please share your views of the below:
1) For such like unjust contractual terms for notice period being kept different for employee and organisation, what's the governmental provision to control exploitation and provide justice to working classes at all levels of employment. In today's time, although many Organisations are trying to adopt good HR practices, there are also organisations who are otherwise practicing HR policies. Are there some uniform HR laws to control and deliver social justice to every worker in private sector? Many choose to avoid escalating these issues in their career interest but they suffer financially.
2) In my example, if the company discontinues my friend's services in the last few days of probation period, can my freind ask for a month's salary compensation? Please note that he hasn't given a copy of signed appointment letter as he has written back to the mgt requesting to revise some terms including notice period 2 months back but nothing heard from them ( mgt) till date.
Thanks a lot.
31st December 2018 From India, Mumbai
Dear Colleague,
I do not believe such an unjust practice is very rampant in India to cause a concern. On the contrary , in my experience the practice is to maintain equality in the notice period on both sides.
What your friend has been experiencing is rare and right thing would have been not to join any company on such terms in the first place.
I don't see need for governmental intervention as it is not wide practice.
Regards,
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR-Consultant.
31st December 2018 From India, Mumbai
Dear Colleague,
Under any situation either probation period or permanent position, the Notice Period should be same from both sided.
Appointment letter is a kind of contract between the Employer & employee.
Legally this clause of Appointment Letter is not valid.
Reagards,
Mohit Bansal
Compliance Manager
2nd January 2019
You have mentioned that your friend joined a "proprietorship manufacturing firm". In such firms the service rules or terms of contract for Senior positions are generally decided by the Proprietor. Now he can make a request to change the condition. As long as he is productive and useful for the organization, he will not be asked to leave.
2nd January 2019 From India, Madras
Such terms appointment of appointment, providing for different notice period are there though not very much popular. Such terms, viewed strictly are not illegal though unethical and inequitable. Such an employer has a valid defence legally that these are our proposal which has been wilfully accepted by the prospective employee for the consideration we are offering and hence the employee is bound by it. It is neither a contract made by force or misrepresentation nor violating any express provision of law. Although such terms go against the age-old premise that the terms of a contract have to be fair and equitable to both parties to the contract, yet such uneven terms do not render it illegal or unenforceable.
3rd January 2019 From India, Mumbai
With Respect to KK HR views:
The terms and conditions should be equal and fair. That's why my freind didn't sign the appointment letter and requested the mgt to review and revise them which he is so far not responded. Normally detailed appointment letter is issued after joining. And this concern org issued appointment letter after 2-3 months' many follow ups. Should have my freind or any employee in his place left the job for not getting appointment letter giving up his bread and butter?? Even if he or anyone seeking an employment urgently did sign the appointment letter, the terms should be viewed partial, unfair, unjust and got accepted under reluctant situation. Some organisations adopt this tactics intentionally so can not stand under legal scrutiny. These organisations also have the trend of not giving confirmation letter after probation period knowingly despite the concern good performing and capable employee sends many emails about confirmation letter...but the company gets work done duly by the same employee.
At a time, we are talking of social justice and fair employment policy, this is really very unfortunate practice being adopted by some Org. In my opinion Govt should strictly monitor on this and enforce strict laws about the matter
3rd January 2019 From India, Mumbai
I entirely agree that such terms are totally bad and is an unhealthy trend creeping now a days in the not so professionally managed organisations. Yet it is there and exploiting the unemployment market there are many organisations doing this. The only point I am making is that it cannot be termed entirely illegal and no specific provision of law is violated by this clause.
3rd January 2019 From India, Mumbai
Yes, it has to be different. If probation is 6 Months or max 1 Year. Then notice period should be 1 Month. Thank you.
20th January 2019 From India
I have a different take on the concept Probation Period. This could be basically a legacy left behind by British, decades ago. In good old days, customer database, communication etc. were manual or depended on printed documents. With the explosion of modes of communication changing the way we connect with people, probation period for experienced people should not at all be the mandatory six months. Probation is required for those who are totally new to working ie from campus to corporate. However, those who have work experience, and shifting from one job to another, why give probation period at all. If a person with 5 years experience in sales changes jobs, how much time does he require for getting to know the customer base, organisation culture, processes, systems etc ? One month ? When people of this generation are net savvy, why one requires six months to prove his skills ? Are we not hiding under the cloak of probation for poor performance ? When things are changing... we talk of speed in processors in PCs, Mobile phones, connectivity, Pizza, 108 ambulance, why not expect a newcomer to an organisation too to perform and prove his speed in performance within 1 month or two ? Am opening a pandora's box here for people to come up with your opinions. Last January, I was in Doha, Qatar advising a 30-year old logistics firm. They had this problem of people leaving at short notice, even within the probation period of six months, despite having vast experience in their job roles I told them to reduce the probation period to just one month to prove the person's abilities. They were happy at my suggestion. Best wishes
25th January 2019 From India
Dear Mr Sundaram sir,
With due regard to your views, I beg to differ.
Though your suggestion of one month's probation to experienced hires apparently appears to be out of box ,but I am afraid, may not help as a single cause in arresting attrition during probation.
However scientific our recruitment process and honed judgement about all round suitability of new hires solely may be, it leaves much to be proved by the candidate after joining. He comes with his deep rooted paradigm about work habits and it certainly needs good time for him to manifest his abilities to give deliverables and adjust culturally.
Tata group's Chairman's appointment is the case in point.
Therefore, legal aspect apart, the longer probation period is necessary for both the organisation and the individual to assess each other's suitability. Yes, whether the probation period should be of three months or any period up to six months is debatable.
Your attributing Doha ,Qatar hires solely to longer probation period appears simplistic .The reasons could also be due to wrong job- person fit or several other possibilities.
I would be obliged if some research findings are given in support of your contention that the employee retention /attrition rate during suggested one month's probation period has significantly improved.
The longer probation period is good HR practice both legally and otherwise , may be its genesis is in British Raj, which gives both opportunity to arrive at matured judgement on each other's suitability and I strongly believe it is facilitating.
Even given the best of the best ability to judge person, I believe one month's probation period will be inadequate for both.
Regards,
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR- Consultant
25th January 2019 From India, Mumbai
My line of argument is quite simple sir: The period of probation should be inversely proportional to the years of service of an individual. As he grows in stature and caliber, he should have lesser time to get on with his new assignment and should not hide under Probation Clause for his inefficiency or non-performance. Probationary period should not be sacrosant for non-performance. Of course, it is for the individual HR departments to take a call on this and make it flexible for different bands of experience, Best wishes
25th January 2019 From India
Check the terms and condition of appointment letter,there is no differences in this.
7th February 2019 From India, Gurgaon
Dear,
Greetings!!
Since, you friend had given already consent in the inception of his joining.
Hence, he is liable to abide with.
Thanks & Rgds
11th March 2019 From India, Delhi
As a new employee of the Company, he/she will have a probationary period stated specifically in the offer letter. It is good chance for the employee to test whether the employee suits the job or not. Also, it gives the Company a chance to find out whether the employee's performance during the probationary period meets the performance standards of The Company required for the position.
To be a permanent employee of the company must serve a period of probation starting from the date of employment for a period normally set at 40 days for Direct Workers and 3 months for Indirect Workers and Staffs before being accepted as a regular, permanent employee enjoying full HRM Policy Manual's protection and benefits.
In special cases the normal period of probation may be reduced or waived, or extended to allow more time for evaluation. The "Request for Personnel Action" proposed by Department Manager should reflect any such change in the probationary period. The reason for the change of the probationary period should be specified in the request.
A newly assigned employee is expected to make satisfactory progress in mastering at least the fundamentals of his new assignment. A learning curve, or period of time allowed for progressive levels of learning the requirements of the new job, will be established. Establishing a fair yet challenging learning curve is the responsibility of each department head. The employee should sign an agreement for probation defined by the company at the date reporting on duty. When the probationary period is completed, an evaluation form will be issued by HR Department through the employee's immediate supervisor and Department Manager and return back to the HR Department for further action.
During the probationary period, the company can terminate the employment contract without giving any reason. No payment of benefit for the employee who resigns by himself will be provided.
My regards to CiteHR Memebers,
John Chiang
25th April 2019 From China, Shanghai
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