Drukganu
Medicomarketing, Oncology
Cite Contribution
Community Manager
Tajsateesh
Recruitment/talent Acquisition, Career Counselling
Nashbramhall
Learning & Teaching Fellow (retired)
Raj Kumar Hansdah
Shrm, Od, Hrd, Pms
Ad682005
Nlp Trainer
+2 Others

A one or two sentence article. Certifications make the certifying authority (who is really a business man) rich and make you poor and stupid.
Tiny Post: Certifications Are a Scam
7th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
The Link is opening Mahesh--pl recheck. Pl try it again.
Tiny Post: Certifications Are a Scam
@ Sathyaish--what you mentioned is true--that they don't enhance the skills.
But the basic purpose of the certifications is quite different--to give some semblance of benchmarking to the prospective employers in these days where many persons have made it a habit of over-rating themselves in any given field/skill.
Rgds,
TS
7th December 2012 From India, Hyderabad
As TS has pointed out it helps organisations to decide on whom to engage. Also for some applications, such as the use of MBTI (Myers & Brigg Type Indicator) Personality Type assessment, getting certified is mandatory. The developers of such instruments have spent a lot of time and effort and they are looking for retrurns on their investment.
8th December 2012 From United Kingdom
Not much to add beyond the point, really.
Tiny Post: Certifications Are a Scam - 2
8th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
An extreme opinion! Well, we know that many successful people were dropouts from schools or colleges, does not mean that the converse would be true. It is an exception that those few were exceptionally brilliant in their focused subjects and became successful.
Certification is useful for others to understand and make an opinion about someones basic level (expected) of understanding.
That said, it is also important to see the credentials of the institute which is offering certificate. Looking at the craze of people for certificates, sure unscrupulous elements would enter the 'market'. Thus choosing the institution would make a difference. It is safer to join University approved courses conducted by colleges (e.g. Management / Media etc.) for learning. Having armed with the basic knowledge, one can develop through 'On the Job' training as others can give knowledge but to develop skills and acquire wisdom is for oneself.
8th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
Today, every Tom, Dick and Harry is providing some certification or the other. I get lots of spam about certifications. They are all crying out loud that they are dishonest tricksters.
I don't believe in certifications at all.
8th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
What's also funny and interesting is that most of the emails I get about them are not well-written. They appear to be written and sent and signed by someone who themselves isn't great at communication. Wonder what they'll be certifying you for. It's just a vehicle to get some cash out of gullible people.
8th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
@ Tajsateesh:

Absolutely true. The reason a company wants even a couple of references (character/work certification) from a new incumbent is for some semblance of certification. In presence of certificate, there is a clue of the person having some credentials, in absence of it, well, there would be a reluctance to believe. Whether the approach is right or wrong becomes a mute point, that it is largely inevitable and followed consistently is a fact.

People realized long time back that there is money in education and looking at the compulsions of working class being unable to join full time, university conducted courses, part time, convenient time, no attendance necessary-postal courses mushroomed. They have to reach people in large number to tap/trap students. I agree with Sathyaish as many of us would be getting such e mails: bombarding communication,( fundamental principle of marketing), most of them could be belonging to the fraudulent clan. Elegant Institutes like the IITs or leading business schools would rarely do it this way. There could be many reasonably good in-between institutes!

Hence to me, Certificate has no viable substitute in prevailing situation. Choosing the course or the institute is in our hand. Learning from a structured course to acquire knowledge helps in individual development, creating opportunities which ultimately helps sharpen skills to gain wisdom (through practice only).
8th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
I am also saying that the very reputable institutes you mention, that everyone has adored for years and run after, are businesses.
There are no separate people who are a fraud. A con never goes out to say, "I am going to con some people today." The first person a con cons is himself. He cons himself into the con, and thus becomes the agent of the con.
If that's a little too wordy to understand, let me re-phrase it: People who are vehicles of the marketing of education are not bad. They are themselves innocent and gullible people who have become instruments in the hands of a few businessmen who are the truly culpable perpetrators.
Also, education is a single person process. You don't need to go anywhere or to anyone to have it. (Tiny Post: Institutionalized Education Is A Scam)
8th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
Yes. Certificatiosn are a bid business and a scam. This is no different from government creating rules for tehir approval and extarcting a price for eh approval
8th December 2012 From India, Bangalore
I couldn't agree more with you, dfc9fc9a5a2add958475eb16e.
Here's the message another time, in different words.
Tiny Post: Certifications Are a Scam - 3
8th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
yes. certificatons is a big time business, orchestrated by academic institutions or those who profess to be possessing academic credentials to build up their credibiility in the certifications market, certifying agencies which are again an ingeneous creation of the academic community, businesses, consultants and the poor victims : the target companies and individual professionals. An idea is mooted like in a criminal gang, heavy bombarding using press, high decibel seminars, followers and admirers create by the same community, build up hype through media, make certification mandatory through policy intervention through any means possible (?), limit validity of certification to one year or less to ensure repeat business from a captive market, expand using approved franchisees (another business), .... once this fades come up with new versions of the certifications wher the old one loses validity and charm in the market.... This is like product innovations to sync with product / business life cycle theorey and te game goes on.
9th December 2012 From India, Bangalore
I am impressed, dfc9fc9a5a2add958475eb16e. You have put the whole catalog on the table. That's precisely it. If there was an award for posts, I'd give it to this post of yours.

You are so right about everything you said.

They target groups/companies. You know why? Because it is easier to fool a group of people than to fool them individually because as individuals, we can think, we can think of our own good and make decisions; groups can't think. Collectives are ineffective.

Tiny Post: The Methodology Republic - 2

Tiny Post: We Don't Think As Often As We Think We Do

And you are so right about their setting a validity for the certification so as to get repeat business. What a crude form of business! It is so apparent from this that certifications are worthless instruments of a con.

To those that think that a certification provides some kind of assurance about skill, I beg to differ. I'd be very wary of being operated by a surgeon just because he had some certification.
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
They have tried to turn the education system into an assembly line. I wish innocent people whom they target could see through them and see all this.
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
That is also why I get very angry when I see the kinds of posts made here like this one () and many others like it.

Someone who has to conduct a training program asks everyone for some material. What a sham! Training is supposed to be done by someone who is good at the subject and they can teach it well.

What is the use of being trained by someone if that person himself got the material from you?

That's called an assembly line. Someone makes the PPT, someone makes another hand-outs document, someone else stands in the classroom and vomits out whatever he memorized, and someone else in the training department checks/ticks a box that they have delivered training to their employees on such and such a topic. Assembly line. That's not training. That's a sad, bloody joke that's happening everywhere.

That is why companies have lost faith in training. Because they themselves treat it like a joke. They have never really had a training at their premises even when they think they have.

Real training is done by someone who is good at a subject, and then you give them complete freedom to do it.
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
The thread I was referring to in my previous post was this one: https://www.citehr.com/49358-voice-accent.html
That's just one sample of the many threads we see on this board. And such a behaviour is encouraged.
Now, I ignore these posts.
When I had joined this forum, I used to reply back urging the original poster to think for themselves.
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
Ok Sathyaish.

Firstly I do not know how many people have bothered to read the content on your website for this Scam -2 post.

I did. And I found no content. Just Lorem Ipsum.

Without valid content to read, people like me tend to assume that you are just abusing your privileges of posting links to create more hits for your website.

Let's give you the benefit of doubt and assume that when you posted, you had content and then something went wrong on the website. Happens.

As I see from your website, your offer training programs on various topics.

So what is the difference between you and those who offer certifications especially those who offer certifications that have become industry standards? Take for example - Film Institute in Pune, National school of drama in the field of acting. Take for example, microsoft certification trainings.

What is the difference between what these people offer and your trainings?

These other people who offer certifications are holding themselves accountable to a certain level of standard that has been accepted as norms in the industry. How can anyone assess whether someone's trainings is upto a level of standard in the absence of "reputed" and "established" certifications like PRISM, PMI, etc.

Besides, I do not see much of an argument in the case presented in your post. As I see each of your three posts, it lacks any worthwhile content.

I have attached screen shots of the 3 posts on your website that you have referred to in this thread. They are good short paragraphs in 2 to 3 lines. However, they are nothing more than rants without any valid debate. Sensational but baseless.
9th December 2012 From India, Pune

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File Type: jpg certifications-scam-post-2.jpg (264.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg scam-1.jpg (211.8 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg scam-3.jpg (194.5 KB, 4 views)

Today training has reduced to reading from a ppt made by some one picked up from internet. Trainer believes that training is a drama enacted in a an a/c environ to entertain a group of uncomfortable disinterested and trublesome elements in the department sponsored by their bosses because he just doesnt want them there for sometime, during that time he can get his agenda through. The trainer arrives clothed in formal suits behaves like a clown, tries to appease the audience by saying whatever he says is right to get a good rating at the end of the program. If u havent made them laugh you are not a good trainer. who cares about the output and outcome if the trainees had some entertainment, th e organisation is happy that they have something put in their monthly news letter, their intranet and u tube, report to shareholders on actions taken on employee care ...... a well orchestrated drama at the cost of shareholders
9th December 2012 From India, Bangalore
Dear Satyaish, I wonder whether companies are asking you if you are certified before they engage you!!
9th December 2012 From United Kingdom
Dear dfc9fc9a5a2add958475eb16e;1999337,
Valid points. Needless to say that certification or no certification - there are trainers like these out there making a fool of themselves and instead of criticizing them, What's certification got to do with it?
9th December 2012 From India, Pune
Clearly, Mr. Anil, you did not get the intention of the Lorem Ipsum post. If people were as offended as you are, you'd not see the number of shares on that page. People got it. You didn't.
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
My dear Satyaish
All your threads have been posted with the intention of DRIVING TRAFFIC to your website; with teaser and catchy headlines and a LINK to your websites.
All other posts from you are in response and posted on your threads only; and create more controversies and offensive responses so as to drive more and more traffic to your site.
It is not very encouraging to find you have been posting threads/posts in CiteHR.com solely for the purpose of PROMOTING your blog/website.
9th December 2012 From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Raj Kumar,
I do not deny that my posts drive traffic to my website and my intention is to promote myself. I am actually proud of that and see nothing wrong in that, as it is also a part of this forum's policies to allow posts of promotion.
Furthermore, my posts have contributed to the content of your forum and have engaged many users in discussion.
Finally, I do engage in discussions around my posts and your forum does benefit from that.
I do not see why someone would have issues with that.
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
That is how communities are built — by mutual exchange. I bring in content. You give me traffic. It’s a fair bargain.
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
Here's another installment of the same message: Tiny Post: Certifications Are a Scam - 4
9th December 2012 From India, Ghaziabad
Dear Mr.Sathyaish,

Sharing an opinion or a generic view is entirely different from educating the world. An opinion needs relevant data , to back it up . If you had an opinion about training certification, it would have been a valid point, had you backed it, with data from training companies who are contributing to such scams. An open statement, finger points to everyone who is working in the sector, including the genuine and the renowned ones.

To Mr.Raj Kumar's point, the contribution to our community can be best explained by Narshimhan, Samvedan, Sateesh and Raj Kumar's posts.

They have been endlessly mentoring us without any self promotion. It took me more than an year to know about Simhan's work . Meeting Samvedan was a dream come true, he's been my mentor since then. They have more than 3 decades of work and are extremely well respected by the industry leaders. Yet, never promote their laurels . Satheesh is a very senior leader, yet remains so amiable and approachable, absolutely without any airs. Raj kumar, responds to the queries , even in the dead of the night! They dont even mention details about their education and work in the profile section, which is a natural platform in this community

Self-promotion is a culture, which have a merit of its own. However , this community is about contributing anonymously. Its one of its kind .

When your solution to a member's question is good, you may not need to promote your self, as you are already establishing your skills with it. Intent and knowledge is best promoted through work. Adding your website to your signature will serve the purpose of making your digital footprint visible. Please avoid sharing it within the post
9th December 2012 From India, Mumbai
Hello Sathyaish,

Going thru the postings by you & other members in the past couple of days, suggest look @ your attempts from a few different points of view.

There's nothing wrong @ self-promotion per se. There are TWO ways one does this exercise--based on SELF-STRENGTHS OR based on the weakness/lacunae/wrongs [or in the Worst-case-scenario--denigration] OF THE OTHERS. You seem to have chosen the later method. Strictly speaking, again like I said, there may not be anything wrong in this--but there WILL be consequences. One has to be prepared for them--and, mind you, they MAY NOT be exactly what one thinks they will be. Like that saying goes: In nature, there are no Rights or Wrongs--only Consequences.

I am sure most, including you, would have noticed this way of interacting with others in all areas of human interaction--personal, business, official, political & even among friends. But take it from me, this sort/method of self-promotion DOESN'T take one very far & that's when the whole chain of consequences begin leading to retribution/pain/attribution-of-motives, etc--for a simple reason: it becomes very easy & at the same time very tough to even realize, when one is crossing the 'THIN LINE' from 'self-promotion' to 'self-aggrandization' [by when any course-correction becomes very tough--if not altogether impossible]. Hope you get the point.

There's one comment I can't desist from making w.r.t. your lines: "Furthermore, my posts have contributed to the content of your forum and have engaged many users in discussion. Finally, I do engage in discussions around my posts and your forum does benefit from that."

When one says/does/contributes/mentions anything in a public forum/platform like CiteHR, pl note that it's for OTHERS to judge/evaluate whether the inputs have contributed in any way to the general knowledge-enhancement of the Forum, if at all.

Human psychology being what it is, it little matters what the intent was meant to be in any interaction--all that matters is HOW IS IT VIEWED. If I think I am praising you, but you think that I am abusing you, your RESPONSE will be guided by YOUR PERCEPTION & not my intent, howsoever noble.

And this is in addition to what (Cite Contribution) mentioned about the unsaid rules of CiteHR interaction--which contributed in a BIG way in making it what it is today--Sharing without expectations [one can define this aspect in many ways]. If kudos come, well & good, if not, then still fine with it--since the initial & basic focus was always on 'Sharing' & not on the kudos or how much of it [or to put it in another way--what's in it for me?].

And this is what actually made me get active in CiteHR way back in 2009 in the First place--something that practices [in howsoever limited way] what the BhagavatGita says: Your right & duty/responsibility [though the English words 'duty' or 'responsibility' don't quite convey the EXACT meaning of the Sanskrit words used in the original text--"Farz" could be the closest in Hindi/Urdu] are limited to perform your action to the best of your ability, but NOT in expecting the fruits/results to your benefit.

I do hope this is taken in the right perspective.

All the Best.

Rgds,

TS
10th December 2012 From India, Hyderabad
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