Seeking Advice on Handling Terminated Employee's Request for Offer Letter
I am AM-HR in a new startup company, and I am facing many HR issues day by day. I request all of you to please help me find solutions to these issues.
Today, one employee shouted at me for his offer letter. He joined the company at the end of August 2012 as a technician. His behavior was not appropriate, and he was misguiding other technicians as well. As a result, the company terminated him without providing any type of offer letter. Now, he has started to visit the office daily and ask for an offer letter. I am very confused about what to do.
Although he has already been terminated by our company, he visited the office again today and shouted at me. Please suggest what I should do in this situation. Should I give him an offer letter since his tenure with the company was from August 25, 2012, to November 6, 2012?
I am waiting for a prompt reply.
Regards
From India, Delhi
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10I am AM-HR in a new startup company, and I am facing many HR issues day by day. I request all of you to please help me find solutions to these issues.
Today, one employee shouted at me for his offer letter. He joined the company at the end of August 2012 as a technician. His behavior was not appropriate, and he was misguiding other technicians as well. As a result, the company terminated him without providing any type of offer letter. Now, he has started to visit the office daily and ask for an offer letter. I am very confused about what to do.
Although he has already been terminated by our company, he visited the office again today and shouted at me. Please suggest what I should do in this situation. Should I give him an offer letter since his tenure with the company was from August 25, 2012, to November 6, 2012?
I am waiting for a prompt reply.
Regards
From India, Delhi
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Managing Stress as an HR Manager
The job of an HR manager is full of stress, and one has to face numerous requests and demands from employees. Some vent out their feelings as HR is considered a representative of the management as well. So, keep your cool and don't feel too stressed out.
Issuing an Experience Letter
In this case, there is no question of an offer letter. However, you can issue an experience letter.
If you need any further clarification, feel free to ask.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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The job of an HR manager is full of stress, and one has to face numerous requests and demands from employees. Some vent out their feelings as HR is considered a representative of the management as well. So, keep your cool and don't feel too stressed out.
Issuing an Experience Letter
In this case, there is no question of an offer letter. However, you can issue an experience letter.
If you need any further clarification, feel free to ask.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Mahima Welcome to CiteHR.com !!! In this case there is no question of an Offer letter. However you can issue an experience letter to him. Warm regards.
From India, Ranchi
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From India, Ranchi
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In continuation of your query above, there are two queries from my side:
1. Have you struck out his name from the Salary Register of that specific month, or is he still your employee for that period? Depending on your YES or NO, the answer can be different.
2. Otherwise, what is the procedure for issuing an OFFER letter and an APPOINTMENT letter in your company?
Generally, an offer letter is issued when we offer a position to a candidate, stating a specific date of joining with other relevant details. It serves as a confirmation/acknowledgment by the company to the employee regarding the offered position.
An appointment letter is usually issued ON THE DAY OF JOINING (in some start-up ventures, it is issued within 7 days).
It appears that your company has not issued either of the above documents to the employee.
Now, when the organization has already TERMINATED his employment within a short span, there are a few options available DEPENDING on MANAGEMENT's discretion:
1. Issue him a backdated offer letter and appointment letter.
2. Do not issue an appointment letter. Only issue the offer letter.
3. Do not issue an experience certificate as the candidate has been TERMINATED (assuming you have followed the termination procedure diligently).
If you have struck out the name, then inform him that he would not receive any documents from the company.
From India, Ahmedabad
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1. Have you struck out his name from the Salary Register of that specific month, or is he still your employee for that period? Depending on your YES or NO, the answer can be different.
2. Otherwise, what is the procedure for issuing an OFFER letter and an APPOINTMENT letter in your company?
Generally, an offer letter is issued when we offer a position to a candidate, stating a specific date of joining with other relevant details. It serves as a confirmation/acknowledgment by the company to the employee regarding the offered position.
An appointment letter is usually issued ON THE DAY OF JOINING (in some start-up ventures, it is issued within 7 days).
It appears that your company has not issued either of the above documents to the employee.
Now, when the organization has already TERMINATED his employment within a short span, there are a few options available DEPENDING on MANAGEMENT's discretion:
1. Issue him a backdated offer letter and appointment letter.
2. Do not issue an appointment letter. Only issue the offer letter.
3. Do not issue an experience certificate as the candidate has been TERMINATED (assuming you have followed the termination procedure diligently).
If you have struck out the name, then inform him that he would not receive any documents from the company.
From India, Ahmedabad
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Is there anything wrong with giving an Offer Letter at this stage with the previous dates? My point is, since the company Mahima is working for is a startup, it might not have processes and procedures in place yet. An ex-employee who is allowed to shout at AM HR for the offer letter itself states the environment in this company. So, is there something wrong with Mahima giving an offer letter to this employee as an act to smoothen this process? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Considerations for Issuing an Offer Letter
If you have a situation where you have to give the offer letter to smoothen these issues, please ensure that the below clauses are included:
- 6 months probation
- Immediate termination for misconduct (during probation period).
Thanks!
From India, Bangalore
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Considerations for Issuing an Offer Letter
If you have a situation where you have to give the offer letter to smoothen these issues, please ensure that the below clauses are included:
- 6 months probation
- Immediate termination for misconduct (during probation period).
Thanks!
From India, Bangalore
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An offer letter is issued to a candidate before joining, so there is no point in entertaining his request for an offer letter. Additionally, if necessary, you can provide an experience letter to avoid any issues.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Alwin,
I like your question and your spirit of inquiry! It gives me an opportunity to explain and clarify the doubts that others may also have.
See, there are no unique solutions to the problem posed. However, we should endeavor to prescribe a solution that is legally compliant, ethical, and aligns with the norms of HRM/Personnel management, etc. Hope you'll agree on these.
Considerations for Issuing an Offer Letter
Now, as you say, one solution can be issuing an Offer Letter and getting over with this nagging problem. But consider these facts:
- As of date, the employee's services stand terminated.
- Issuing an offer at this stage would amount to issuing a back-dated letter. This is not considered good or proper in law. Moreover, no ethical manager would agree to sign such a back-dated document.
- If the matter goes to Court, the signing person must admit that they have signed a backdated order, and this would be a matter of great embarrassment for a company. Any false statement to the contrary, in court, would amount to perjury and is punishable.
Whereas, there is absolutely no problem in issuing an Experience letter, which is customary and also a legal requirement in certain cases.
Hope you'll find the above explanation adequate and satisfactory. It's always advisable to give well-thought-out and considered opinions in such a professional forum, and I expect all members to do so, rather than give off-the-cuff, casual opinions. Do keep contributing.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
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I like your question and your spirit of inquiry! It gives me an opportunity to explain and clarify the doubts that others may also have.
See, there are no unique solutions to the problem posed. However, we should endeavor to prescribe a solution that is legally compliant, ethical, and aligns with the norms of HRM/Personnel management, etc. Hope you'll agree on these.
Considerations for Issuing an Offer Letter
Now, as you say, one solution can be issuing an Offer Letter and getting over with this nagging problem. But consider these facts:
- As of date, the employee's services stand terminated.
- Issuing an offer at this stage would amount to issuing a back-dated letter. This is not considered good or proper in law. Moreover, no ethical manager would agree to sign such a back-dated document.
- If the matter goes to Court, the signing person must admit that they have signed a backdated order, and this would be a matter of great embarrassment for a company. Any false statement to the contrary, in court, would amount to perjury and is punishable.
Whereas, there is absolutely no problem in issuing an Experience letter, which is customary and also a legal requirement in certain cases.
Hope you'll find the above explanation adequate and satisfactory. It's always advisable to give well-thought-out and considered opinions in such a professional forum, and I expect all members to do so, rather than give off-the-cuff, casual opinions. Do keep contributing.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
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Was this employee issued a termination letter so far, or was it only oral termination? If a termination letter was issued, then you may issue a SERVICE CERTIFICATE indicating the date of joining and the date of termination.
I doubt whether the proper procedure was followed while terminating the employee, since yours is a startup company. If you had not issued a termination letter, please do not issue a SERVICE CERTIFICATE also, lest it will land you in legal problems, as there is every likelihood that the terminated employee may approach the labor department and ask for reinstatement. In the absence of inquiry proceedings, you will be ordered to reinstate him with back wages.
Thus, even if it is difficult, convince your management to follow the legal procedure before terminating any employee, including this one.
Normally, in private companies, we call the employee and ask him to submit his resignation in cases where termination is warranted, and we will settle his dues, including severance pay if any.
Be bold and face the problem. When compared to other professionals, we are working with human beings and their behavior. TRANSPARENCY AND TRUST BUILDING shall be buzzwords for our profession. Employees shall treat us as their Helper & Well-wisher.
Regards,
Haragopal
GM-HR
SOLAR SEMICONDUCTOR PVT LTD.,
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
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I doubt whether the proper procedure was followed while terminating the employee, since yours is a startup company. If you had not issued a termination letter, please do not issue a SERVICE CERTIFICATE also, lest it will land you in legal problems, as there is every likelihood that the terminated employee may approach the labor department and ask for reinstatement. In the absence of inquiry proceedings, you will be ordered to reinstate him with back wages.
Thus, even if it is difficult, convince your management to follow the legal procedure before terminating any employee, including this one.
Normally, in private companies, we call the employee and ask him to submit his resignation in cases where termination is warranted, and we will settle his dues, including severance pay if any.
Be bold and face the problem. When compared to other professionals, we are working with human beings and their behavior. TRANSPARENCY AND TRUST BUILDING shall be buzzwords for our profession. Employees shall treat us as their Helper & Well-wisher.
Regards,
Haragopal
GM-HR
SOLAR SEMICONDUCTOR PVT LTD.,
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Mahima, welcome and all the best. Coming to your problem - many employers adopt the practice of not issuing any formal offer or appointment letter and ask those selected to join, then request them to leave for various reasons (unethical). Unfortunately, this practice persists even in well-established companies/employers. It is sad, but it does not mean you should follow suit. You mentioned that he was issued marching orders or some form of termination. Let me ask you, no offer letter was issued - correct? Was he issued any termination letter? I presume you did not, in which case, I would say there was no offer letter now as well. There could be no question of giving an offer letter "ex-post facto" after he was "terminated" by some method. He is trying to obtain some documents supporting his service in your firm. He is right, and your past actions are wrong.
How to Solve Your Problem
Well, nobody can cover up having employed him because you could have paid his salary for August, September, October but not November, perhaps through a bank account credit. In these circumstances, you could only treat him as a "trainee" and not as a regular employee. In this case, maintain the stance that your company has no practice of providing "offer" or "appointment" letters to trainees, and he was only paid a stipend during training. Finally, he was marked absent for the days he was not taken to the job, and he is no longer on the rolls (unfair labor practices, my friend). Do not worry if he shouts at you; it is the job of your security to handle it. It is a matter of maintaining law and order within the premises.
I'm sorry I understand what should have been done by your firm and what has been done and what is possible. I can't help much more. Do not worry; have courage, pal.
Regards,
Kumar S.
From India, Bangalore
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How to Solve Your Problem
Well, nobody can cover up having employed him because you could have paid his salary for August, September, October but not November, perhaps through a bank account credit. In these circumstances, you could only treat him as a "trainee" and not as a regular employee. In this case, maintain the stance that your company has no practice of providing "offer" or "appointment" letters to trainees, and he was only paid a stipend during training. Finally, he was marked absent for the days he was not taken to the job, and he is no longer on the rolls (unfair labor practices, my friend). Do not worry if he shouts at you; it is the job of your security to handle it. It is a matter of maintaining law and order within the premises.
I'm sorry I understand what should have been done by your firm and what has been done and what is possible. I can't help much more. Do not worry; have courage, pal.
Regards,
Kumar S.
From India, Bangalore
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Others have already told you what to do regarding the issue of the offer letter. However, there is another aspect. No one is allowed to shout at or abuse others in an office. You need to take this up with your management and get them to instruct others in the office (your male colleagues) or the security to either stop this person from entering the office on grounds of abusive behavior or to intervene and remove him from the office in case of unacceptable behavior. I don't know how badly he behaved, but if the abuse was of a personal nature or if you feel he considers you as the reason for removal and therefore constitutes a threat outside the office, you may ask your manager/director to help you report the matter to the nearest police station.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Please ask him to write his resignation letter in his own handwriting. Make sure to include the date on which he was terminated from duty. After that, you can speak to management and obtain approval from the concerned person. Then, you can provide him with the service certificate.
Regards,
Kumara
From India, Chennai
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Regards,
Kumara
From India, Chennai
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Dear all, Thank you for the guidance. By studying all comments, I have got an idea. Is it my right decision not to provide an offer letter to him? Should I give him a service, experience, or termination letter? You know his TA/DA is still pending for the month of October, i.e., approximately Rs. 2400. In his case, we were only paying salary in cash. He only had an ID card, which he submitted to us after his termination.
Regards, Mahima
From India, Delhi
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Regards, Mahima
From India, Delhi
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Without an offer letter and appointment letter, how is anybody allowed to join the company? Did the concerned worker submit any joining report? There is no question of issuing any backdated offer letter if they have not provided a joining report. If an appointment order has been issued, accepted, and a joining report has been submitted, then no offer letter is necessary.
The above are my views. However, in the future, kindly insist that every person the company intends to employ is given an offer letter. Only upon acceptance of the offer letter, issue an appointment letter. The person joining the company must submit a joining letter on the day they start their duty.
Regards,
N K Acharya
From India, Hosur
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The above are my views. However, in the future, kindly insist that every person the company intends to employ is given an offer letter. Only upon acceptance of the offer letter, issue an appointment letter. The person joining the company must submit a joining letter on the day they start their duty.
Regards,
N K Acharya
From India, Hosur
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Issuing a Salary Certificate
In such a case, you can issue him a salary certificate that shall mention all the details pertaining to his date of joining, relieving, experience, and salary. This shall suffice his requirement and also put an end to this situation.
Importance of Issuing Appointment Letters
Henceforth, start issuing appointment letters immediately after joining. There is no point in raising unwanted employee grievances on such small issues in the organization. All such small incidents gather and spoil the culture in the organization, leading to bad mouthing of its image.
From India, Ahmedabad
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In such a case, you can issue him a salary certificate that shall mention all the details pertaining to his date of joining, relieving, experience, and salary. This shall suffice his requirement and also put an end to this situation.
Importance of Issuing Appointment Letters
Henceforth, start issuing appointment letters immediately after joining. There is no point in raising unwanted employee grievances on such small issues in the organization. All such small incidents gather and spoil the culture in the organization, leading to bad mouthing of its image.
From India, Ahmedabad
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The terminated employee cannot ask for offer letter. Since he would have already received the offer letter at the time of his joing.ok B.L.>madhavan rane
From India, Chennai
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From India, Chennai
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(Fact Checked)-The terminated employee can still request an offer letter even after termination. It's essential to provide him with necessary documentation upon request. (1 Acknowledge point)
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Security System Concerns
Firstly, the security system has completely failed in your company. How can a terminated employee keep coming back to the office and be allowed to shout at the company's managers?
Probation Period Considerations
Secondly, in my opinion, this terminated employee has just completed less than 4 months of work. In that case, he should still be in the probation period, during which we can terminate him based on his working capabilities and behavior.
Salary Payment Protocol
Thirdly, NEVER GIVE SALARY IN CASH TO TERMINATED EMPLOYEES. Always use a bank account for payments. Acceptance of salary in the account implies that the terminated employee has acknowledged their termination.
Regards,
Manish Bali
From India, Delhi
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Firstly, the security system has completely failed in your company. How can a terminated employee keep coming back to the office and be allowed to shout at the company's managers?
Probation Period Considerations
Secondly, in my opinion, this terminated employee has just completed less than 4 months of work. In that case, he should still be in the probation period, during which we can terminate him based on his working capabilities and behavior.
Salary Payment Protocol
Thirdly, NEVER GIVE SALARY IN CASH TO TERMINATED EMPLOYEES. Always use a bank account for payments. Acceptance of salary in the account implies that the terminated employee has acknowledged their termination.
Regards,
Manish Bali
From India, Delhi
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Offer Letter and Termination Procedures
Regarding the offer letter, it should be issued before joining. If, for any reason, the organization missed this step, at least the appointment letter should have been issued. However, since the person has now been terminated, his intentions are clear. He seems to be trying to manipulate the situation in any way possible.
I would like to inquire whether you have completed all the necessary formalities for his termination. Have you conducted his clearance? Is his full and final settlement processed? If all these procedures have been completed, there is no need to provide him with an offer letter as it serves no purpose. However, if there are pending exit formalities, he may continue to trouble you for the same reason. Remember, it is the management's decision to issue an offer letter, so do not let him intimidate you.
It appears he is attempting to create problems for you in any way he can. If everything is in order from your end, there is no need to worry.
Thanks and Regards,
Niranjan Kulkarni
From India, Pune
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Regarding the offer letter, it should be issued before joining. If, for any reason, the organization missed this step, at least the appointment letter should have been issued. However, since the person has now been terminated, his intentions are clear. He seems to be trying to manipulate the situation in any way possible.
I would like to inquire whether you have completed all the necessary formalities for his termination. Have you conducted his clearance? Is his full and final settlement processed? If all these procedures have been completed, there is no need to provide him with an offer letter as it serves no purpose. However, if there are pending exit formalities, he may continue to trouble you for the same reason. Remember, it is the management's decision to issue an offer letter, so do not let him intimidate you.
It appears he is attempting to create problems for you in any way he can. If everything is in order from your end, there is no need to worry.
Thanks and Regards,
Niranjan Kulkarni
From India, Pune
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Dear Raj,
Well said! Your posts have always been enriching, well thought out, and quite a treat to the eyes after going through some casual remarks/suggestions made by some of our HR colleagues. Your suggestions are right, and there is no need to add anything further.
Dear Mahima,
In addition to what Raj has suggested, please instruct your security officer/guard posted at the Main Entrance Gate not to allow this person to come inside again. If he is required to be called into the office for any reason, a security guard must accompany him so that he does not create any ruckus/problem for anybody. Just for your information, a terminated employee is normally never allowed to enter the factory/office unless it is absolutely necessary. A terminated employee is an aggrieved person, and one should not expect controlled/sensible behavior from him. Next time he comes, please meet him at the security office situated at the Main Gate along with a male colleague or let him come inside accompanied by a security guard.
Regards,
Rakesh Pd Srivastav
From India, Gurgaon
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Well said! Your posts have always been enriching, well thought out, and quite a treat to the eyes after going through some casual remarks/suggestions made by some of our HR colleagues. Your suggestions are right, and there is no need to add anything further.
Dear Mahima,
In addition to what Raj has suggested, please instruct your security officer/guard posted at the Main Entrance Gate not to allow this person to come inside again. If he is required to be called into the office for any reason, a security guard must accompany him so that he does not create any ruckus/problem for anybody. Just for your information, a terminated employee is normally never allowed to enter the factory/office unless it is absolutely necessary. A terminated employee is an aggrieved person, and one should not expect controlled/sensible behavior from him. Next time he comes, please meet him at the security office situated at the Main Gate along with a male colleague or let him come inside accompanied by a security guard.
Regards,
Rakesh Pd Srivastav
From India, Gurgaon
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Have you seen the termination letter issued to the person? If yes, then what are the contents of the termination letter? Did he sign a full and final clearance certificate? Was he paid by cheque or in cash? Do records exist to prove that he was employed at all? It appears, per se, that he was employed and then services terminated. If this premise is correct, then he deserves to be given documents to cover the period of employment, in all fairness.
Regards,
Col. Rathi
From India, Delhi
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Regards,
Col. Rathi
From India, Delhi
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply is correct. Terminated employees are entitled to receive necessary documents like the offer letter and full and final settlement. It's essential to provide them with proper documentation. (1 Acknowledge point)
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Dear Mahima, In this case need not issue any offer letter. You can issue an experience Letter. Best Regards, Jamal Hossain Incharge-HR & IR BSRM Steels Ltd. Bangladesh
From Bangladesh
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From Bangladesh
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I think when your company has terminated his services, he ceases to be an employee of the company. The contract comes to an end. In such a case, the best course would be to ask the security people not to allow him inside the company. When he is no longer an employee of the company, he is not supposed to come inside, especially to demand an offer letter. The best answer would be to inform that it would be sent to his latest postal address if the company decides to issue the offer letter with a previous date.
Regards,
M.J. SUBRAMANYAM, MUMBAI
From India, Bangalore
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Regards,
M.J. SUBRAMANYAM, MUMBAI
From India, Bangalore
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I did not recognize that an offer letter is compulsory under common laws or any kind of laws in the world, but issuing a letter may cause you trouble. As a senior consultant to my company, I wish for you to issue an offer letter to him now. You may not be aware of the scenario below. Let's say, for example, if there is a different date to issue the offer letter and the termination date of the employment, will you backdate the issuing of the offer letter to August? That is not good and not necessary. As you can see, an offer letter is not compulsory. Similarly, I wish for you to date the issuing letter today. That is messy and makes no sense at all. If he has terminated his employment, then what is the purpose of the offering letter requested by him?
The answer is, he may use that offer letter to submit to a labor union organization (or the like) to claim against your company for entering into an employment contract and wrongful termination. That is what I am thinking right now. Please do check with your lawyer.
Kind regards,
Regards
From Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh City
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The answer is, he may use that offer letter to submit to a labor union organization (or the like) to claim against your company for entering into an employment contract and wrongful termination. That is what I am thinking right now. Please do check with your lawyer.
Kind regards,
Regards
From Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh City
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Good luck and best wishes to you as you step into HR shoes. Please consult your lawyer and be guided by their advice. You will learn to keep your cool and not act in haste. It is important to note that any action you take would be setting a precedent.
Regards,
R. S. Patwardhan
From India, Mumbai
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Regards,
R. S. Patwardhan
From India, Mumbai
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No need to issue any offer letter, as the employee was on probation. You can terminate him for non-performance, riotous behavior, or misconduct. Call that employee, prepare full and final settlement documents (whatever is applicable to your company), and settle his final dues. Take witness signatures from co-employees.
Secondly, misbehaving and abusing within the office premises is serious misconduct. First, warn him not to shout in the office. If he does not listen, call security and ask them to hand him over to the local police.
Regards,
Magesh
From India, Mumbai
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Secondly, misbehaving and abusing within the office premises is serious misconduct. First, warn him not to shout in the office. If he does not listen, call security and ask them to hand him over to the local police.
Regards,
Magesh
From India, Mumbai
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In this case there is no question of an Offer letter. However you can issue an experience letter to him.
From India, Chennai
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From India, Chennai
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(Fact Checked)-In this situation, an offer letter is not necessary, but providing an experience letter is recommended to the terminated employee. (1 Acknowledge point)
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The case is fairly simple. You may issue this employee an experience letter, but do not provide his offer letter to avoid any potential issues with backdating. If he cannot visit your office daily and displays inappropriate behavior, ensure he is properly informed about company policies to deter him from returning. Keep one crucial point in mind: there is zero tolerance for any misconduct or lackadaisical attitude.
Thanks,
Neha
From India, Delhi
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Thanks,
Neha
From India, Delhi
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Sample Internship Offer Letter.doc
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply contains accurate advice on handling the situation of an ex-employee shouting and abusive behavior. It correctly emphasizes involving management, security, and even law enforcement if necessary. (1 Acknowledge point)