Dear All,
In our organization, there is a peon who is on the payroll of the company. He has been working in our organization for the last 10 years. Over the past year, we have been facing problems because of him, such as late arrivals, taking leaves without prior approval, poor performance, etc. We have issued him verbal warnings four times and written warnings three times, but there has been no improvement.
Last year, his wife was very ill and underwent a serious operation (she subsequently passed away). During that time, he was in dire need of money, so the company provided him with a loan considering his good performance and tenure in the organization. We deduct a small amount of money from his salary every month to repay the loan.
The current issue is that he is not performing well and has become a liability for the organization. The management is hesitant to terminate him because if he is terminated, there is uncertainty about how we will recover the loan amount (as we are deducting it from his salary). Additionally, other peons are dissatisfied because they have to bear a heavier workload. They frequently complain about this situation, which is negatively impacting the organizational culture.
Please advise on what steps to take.
From India, Hyderabad
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24In our organization, there is a peon who is on the payroll of the company. He has been working in our organization for the last 10 years. Over the past year, we have been facing problems because of him, such as late arrivals, taking leaves without prior approval, poor performance, etc. We have issued him verbal warnings four times and written warnings three times, but there has been no improvement.
Last year, his wife was very ill and underwent a serious operation (she subsequently passed away). During that time, he was in dire need of money, so the company provided him with a loan considering his good performance and tenure in the organization. We deduct a small amount of money from his salary every month to repay the loan.
The current issue is that he is not performing well and has become a liability for the organization. The management is hesitant to terminate him because if he is terminated, there is uncertainty about how we will recover the loan amount (as we are deducting it from his salary). Additionally, other peons are dissatisfied because they have to bear a heavier workload. They frequently complain about this situation, which is negatively impacting the organizational culture.
Please advise on what steps to take.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear,
I could not understand your management; for the sake of loan recovery, they do not want to terminate him. In my view, you should not terminate him. You have told him several times and given counseling also. You take disciplinary action against him and complete the procedure, but later on, do not terminate him; give some lesser punishment. Sometimes he may improve after that. Some people improve with counseling, but some improve with disciplinary action or with fear of job. This is my personal view.
Regards,
J S Malik
From India, Delhi
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I could not understand your management; for the sake of loan recovery, they do not want to terminate him. In my view, you should not terminate him. You have told him several times and given counseling also. You take disciplinary action against him and complete the procedure, but later on, do not terminate him; give some lesser punishment. Sometimes he may improve after that. Some people improve with counseling, but some improve with disciplinary action or with fear of job. This is my personal view.
Regards,
J S Malik
From India, Delhi
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Dear,
I had heard the same case in one of my friend's company. One peon had taken a loan, but due to his poor performance, he was transferred to another department where he worked under a well-disciplined person. Whenever he arrived late, he was treated with a reverse reaction. This means if he arrived late, he had to stay until late evening with his supervisor. After some time, he became accustomed to arriving on time, and the supervisor started discussing his future plans for his children or potential remarriage. The supervisor explained that once he completed his current workload, he could apply for another loan from the management to support his children.
After some time, he learned to operate a computer, and the management forgave his loan amount, appreciating his hard work. To help others improve, considering he has already lost his wife, it is essential to provide moral support and place him under the supervision of a highly experienced or senior person.
Best Regards,
Sajid Ansari
Delhi
From India, Delhi
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I had heard the same case in one of my friend's company. One peon had taken a loan, but due to his poor performance, he was transferred to another department where he worked under a well-disciplined person. Whenever he arrived late, he was treated with a reverse reaction. This means if he arrived late, he had to stay until late evening with his supervisor. After some time, he became accustomed to arriving on time, and the supervisor started discussing his future plans for his children or potential remarriage. The supervisor explained that once he completed his current workload, he could apply for another loan from the management to support his children.
After some time, he learned to operate a computer, and the management forgave his loan amount, appreciating his hard work. To help others improve, considering he has already lost his wife, it is essential to provide moral support and place him under the supervision of a highly experienced or senior person.
Best Regards,
Sajid Ansari
Delhi
From India, Delhi
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Hi, this is Shimit here.
I wanted to tell you one thing: that you will also grow old one day, and due to some reasons in your personal life, your performance will also be affected. The person you are talking about is a peon who has served you for 10 long years... imagine... 10 long years... and with not performing for the past few days, he has become a liability.
I don't think you should terminate him. You should have a good talk with him first, like a good friend. Listen to his problem, understand his problem, and if possible, try to solve his problem. If you are not able to solve his problem, then please don't become a part of his problem. You know, a human being is a very soft creature. Some people overcome their frustration, and some don't, so it affects their performance.
Please put yourself in his shoes and then figure out a solution to the problem. Please don't show the company's bad attitude towards him every time. Please understand.
From India, Banga
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I wanted to tell you one thing: that you will also grow old one day, and due to some reasons in your personal life, your performance will also be affected. The person you are talking about is a peon who has served you for 10 long years... imagine... 10 long years... and with not performing for the past few days, he has become a liability.
I don't think you should terminate him. You should have a good talk with him first, like a good friend. Listen to his problem, understand his problem, and if possible, try to solve his problem. If you are not able to solve his problem, then please don't become a part of his problem. You know, a human being is a very soft creature. Some people overcome their frustration, and some don't, so it affects their performance.
Please put yourself in his shoes and then figure out a solution to the problem. Please don't show the company's bad attitude towards him every time. Please understand.
From India, Banga
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dear , Money is not matter principle is matter. so management cant compromise with employees emotional blackmailing. termination is best solution Dada
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Hi, this is Gopi.
I want you to suggest one thing: you are saying that he has been with your organization for the past 10 years. So, recognize the services he has rendered to your organization during those 10 years. It's not fair to terminate him just by assessing his performance over a few days.
Another consideration is that his wife has passed away, and he might be experiencing depression as a result. Due to this, he may not be as productive. Therefore, counsel him regarding his performance and the impact it is having on the organization. Allow him some time to regain his productivity. If he continues to show the same performance even after that, then strict actions may be necessary, including termination.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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I want you to suggest one thing: you are saying that he has been with your organization for the past 10 years. So, recognize the services he has rendered to your organization during those 10 years. It's not fair to terminate him just by assessing his performance over a few days.
Another consideration is that his wife has passed away, and he might be experiencing depression as a result. Due to this, he may not be as productive. Therefore, counsel him regarding his performance and the impact it is having on the organization. Allow him some time to regain his productivity. If he continues to show the same performance even after that, then strict actions may be necessary, including termination.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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If you are deducting PF, try to use it against recovery. counselling / Threatening as per the need can help. kane
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Consider redeploying him elsewhere. Let him know that the reason is purely because of non-performance in the current area.
Also, the loss of a dear family member, loneliness, and family issues (that we may not know he is facing) can be the reasons behind his inability to perform. Counsel him to find out what is troubling him at work. Sometimes, making an extra effort to listen can solve the issue.
He may be experiencing depression, which can lead to mental health problems and a lack of focus on what to do next in life. Offer counseling and simultaneously try to improve productivity by redeploying him elsewhere.
From India, Madras
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Also, the loss of a dear family member, loneliness, and family issues (that we may not know he is facing) can be the reasons behind his inability to perform. Counsel him to find out what is troubling him at work. Sometimes, making an extra effort to listen can solve the issue.
He may be experiencing depression, which can lead to mental health problems and a lack of focus on what to do next in life. Offer counseling and simultaneously try to improve productivity by redeploying him elsewhere.
From India, Madras
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In any case (except corruption), you never think of termination. You never use this step because it affects not only the employee but the whole family of the employee getting disturbed. As a manager, you never misuse your power. I feel that if one employee does not perform well, it is indirectly the failure of the manager and management.
There are so many... so many ways to handle such types of cases, but termination of the employee, especially when he is a senior employee (10 years)... I think nowadays it is very popular that if an employee stays with the organization for more than five years, he is considered a fool, not capable, which is a very wrong thinking. Loyalty has its own value, and you can't argue against this.
In my view, you can take action against him, but you can't terminate any employee for these specific reasons.
From India, Vadodara
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There are so many... so many ways to handle such types of cases, but termination of the employee, especially when he is a senior employee (10 years)... I think nowadays it is very popular that if an employee stays with the organization for more than five years, he is considered a fool, not capable, which is a very wrong thinking. Loyalty has its own value, and you can't argue against this.
In my view, you can take action against him, but you can't terminate any employee for these specific reasons.
From India, Vadodara
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My dear friend,
The problem is critical. I don't know the right way to tackle the problem, but I think I can share with you what I would have done if I had been in place of you. It may work or may not work.
I would have called him to my cabin and asked about his problem. Then I would have told him, "Look dear, if you want to secure your future, you need to work in the present. Now you are not working. Ok, your work is being done by somebody else. The person who is doing your job, what is he thinking in his mind for you? The answer is what will you think if you will do the same thing. Will you help any such person in trouble? If everybody will not help that person, then think what will happen to him.
Otherwise, tell him to only sit near your cabin. Nobody will be with him in these working hours, no work. He may get bored and may tell you to give the job.
From India, Hyderabad
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The problem is critical. I don't know the right way to tackle the problem, but I think I can share with you what I would have done if I had been in place of you. It may work or may not work.
I would have called him to my cabin and asked about his problem. Then I would have told him, "Look dear, if you want to secure your future, you need to work in the present. Now you are not working. Ok, your work is being done by somebody else. The person who is doing your job, what is he thinking in his mind for you? The answer is what will you think if you will do the same thing. Will you help any such person in trouble? If everybody will not help that person, then think what will happen to him.
Otherwise, tell him to only sit near your cabin. Nobody will be with him in these working hours, no work. He may get bored and may tell you to give the job.
From India, Hyderabad
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Good to know the views of all participants and the sensitivity with which the issue of an old peon was discussed. A person who has worked hard for 10 years can be made productive again through proper counseling once he overcomes his personal problem (with a bit of HR help). Termination is not a solution at all, but then greedy companies always look for a quick-fix solution - in the time of recession, you can easily get a person to do the same job at half the cost. Regards.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear All,
Thank you for your suggestions. Your insights are very helpful to me. I would like to extend a special thanks to Mr. Sajid Ansari, Shimit, and Ash Mathew for their valuable inputs.
In my organization, we prioritize the well-being of our people. While our HR policies may not be the best, I believe they are good. We are aware that our peon has served our organization diligently for over 10 years, but for the past year, we have been facing challenges. Ultimately, we also have to be accountable to top management. For a while now, we have refrained from terminating the peon due to a loan issue (we need a valid reason for not taking action). As you all know, for an organization, money is not the primary concern. We have been providing opportunities for the peon to improve his performance and discipline, but now we are running out of time. We are grappling with moral and ethical dilemmas on what steps to take.
1) On one hand, we have the peon who has been loyal to the organization for over a decade. He is financially struggling and relies on this job for his children's and his own survival. Our hearts tell us to give him more time to understand.
2) On the other hand, we have organizational policies. If we do not act, it may compromise our culture and values. The logical part of our minds suggests that just like removing a poisoned part of the body is necessary for the well-being of the entire body, we may need to take action.
This is a unique and challenging situation, so we have submitted a detailed file with our recommendations to top management. Now, only time will tell what the outcome will be.
White Eagle
From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you for your suggestions. Your insights are very helpful to me. I would like to extend a special thanks to Mr. Sajid Ansari, Shimit, and Ash Mathew for their valuable inputs.
In my organization, we prioritize the well-being of our people. While our HR policies may not be the best, I believe they are good. We are aware that our peon has served our organization diligently for over 10 years, but for the past year, we have been facing challenges. Ultimately, we also have to be accountable to top management. For a while now, we have refrained from terminating the peon due to a loan issue (we need a valid reason for not taking action). As you all know, for an organization, money is not the primary concern. We have been providing opportunities for the peon to improve his performance and discipline, but now we are running out of time. We are grappling with moral and ethical dilemmas on what steps to take.
1) On one hand, we have the peon who has been loyal to the organization for over a decade. He is financially struggling and relies on this job for his children's and his own survival. Our hearts tell us to give him more time to understand.
2) On the other hand, we have organizational policies. If we do not act, it may compromise our culture and values. The logical part of our minds suggests that just like removing a poisoned part of the body is necessary for the well-being of the entire body, we may need to take action.
This is a unique and challenging situation, so we have submitted a detailed file with our recommendations to top management. Now, only time will tell what the outcome will be.
White Eagle
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Friends,
One point I want to add is that he might be suffering from loneliness as his wife passed away, and he might be addicted to some habits like drinking, etc. (my presumption). We as HR persons need to concentrate on the remaining 16 hours (out of office hours) of any employee to understand his lifestyle so that you will know the root cause. By knowing the real issue, you can counsel him, support him so that he can be an asset to the organization.
In the present scenario, employees are working for a very short time, and this employee has been with the organization for more than a decade. Whatever loan you have given him should not be a concern for the organization. Please verify his lifestyle, address the concerns. I am sure he will realize and add value to the organization.
Regards,
Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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One point I want to add is that he might be suffering from loneliness as his wife passed away, and he might be addicted to some habits like drinking, etc. (my presumption). We as HR persons need to concentrate on the remaining 16 hours (out of office hours) of any employee to understand his lifestyle so that you will know the root cause. By knowing the real issue, you can counsel him, support him so that he can be an asset to the organization.
In the present scenario, employees are working for a very short time, and this employee has been with the organization for more than a decade. Whatever loan you have given him should not be a concern for the organization. Please verify his lifestyle, address the concerns. I am sure he will realize and add value to the organization.
Regards,
Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear White Eagle It was nice to know about your own views on the issue. Plz do your best, and don’t worry about the results (as said in "Shrimad Bhagwad Geeta"). Regards.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear White Eagle,
He is a peon, and his salary must be less. He has taken a loan from the office to meet medical expenses for surgery. Imagine the medical expenses in these days and the loan eligibility for a peon. As his wife could not survive, that must have been a major surgery. So, in spite of the office loan, he must have arranged some amount from another source for which he may have to return.
Now, after the expiry of his wife, he has to take on the role of both mother and father for his children. So, he has to spend more time with his children.
Therefore, my request is to please consider these points before making any decision. In case he is terminated from his services, there is a possibility that, out of frustration, he may take a drastic step to end his life, either leaving his children orphaned or taking them with him as well.
To address his current liabilities to your management, I suggest that in addition to counseling him and providing financial help, you give him a promotion to senior peon and assign him some special work. This way, other peons will not compare themselves with a senior peon. Do not waive his loan but provide financial assistance in other ways. I believe that in this manner, he may recover from his problems to some extent and cooperate with the management in a positive way.
Regards
From India, Hyderabad
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He is a peon, and his salary must be less. He has taken a loan from the office to meet medical expenses for surgery. Imagine the medical expenses in these days and the loan eligibility for a peon. As his wife could not survive, that must have been a major surgery. So, in spite of the office loan, he must have arranged some amount from another source for which he may have to return.
Now, after the expiry of his wife, he has to take on the role of both mother and father for his children. So, he has to spend more time with his children.
Therefore, my request is to please consider these points before making any decision. In case he is terminated from his services, there is a possibility that, out of frustration, he may take a drastic step to end his life, either leaving his children orphaned or taking them with him as well.
To address his current liabilities to your management, I suggest that in addition to counseling him and providing financial help, you give him a promotion to senior peon and assign him some special work. This way, other peons will not compare themselves with a senior peon. Do not waive his loan but provide financial assistance in other ways. I believe that in this manner, he may recover from his problems to some extent and cooperate with the management in a positive way.
Regards
From India, Hyderabad
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Very well said, Parasurampur! I totally agree with your point of view because we are humans first and professionals later!
Dear White Eagle, please share with us the decision that you ultimately take.
Regards,
Shikha
From India, Mumbai
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Dear White Eagle, please share with us the decision that you ultimately take.
Regards,
Shikha
From India, Mumbai
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Old employees are becoming a liability because the company is not taking care of them, as Sumit stated. I do agree with him. We should try to know about the employees who were performing better and suddenly are not. Why? Why are you thinking of termination? Is termination the only solution? They must be having some problem. In my company, there are some old employees working for the last 30 to 40 years. Now, the company doesn't need them because everything has changed - technology, processes, etc. However, due to their dedication towards the company, they are not being terminated. Instead, they are given work where they can still contribute effectively. The company is waiting for their retirement period, and they will retire with respect and courtesy, as they are entitled to it. On the other hand, a person with 10 years of experience in your company who chooses not to leave - what is your responsibility towards such an employee? They will likely be more responsible than newcomers, treating the company and employees as family members. They will be more attached to the company. If they are not performing well now, find out and resolve the issue. If termination is necessary, follow the standing order act in your company.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Dear All,
As all of us have experience with such types of personalities in our organizations, sometimes it happens that individuals become as rigid as their tenure progresses, with the belief that nobody can fire them. Consequently, they become careless and irresponsible. I think he is also displaying such an attitude. Therefore, the best solution would be to issue a warning for termination, though not necessarily to terminate him.
Another crucial point to note is that you should observe his behavior and determine whether he makes mistakes intentionally or unintentionally. Additionally, check his presence of mind. If he is still in shock over personal matters, how can we expect quality work from him? If necessary, consider giving him some time off so that he can clear his mind, which may lead to a positive change.
Thank you.
From India, Amritsar
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As all of us have experience with such types of personalities in our organizations, sometimes it happens that individuals become as rigid as their tenure progresses, with the belief that nobody can fire them. Consequently, they become careless and irresponsible. I think he is also displaying such an attitude. Therefore, the best solution would be to issue a warning for termination, though not necessarily to terminate him.
Another crucial point to note is that you should observe his behavior and determine whether he makes mistakes intentionally or unintentionally. Additionally, check his presence of mind. If he is still in shock over personal matters, how can we expect quality work from him? If necessary, consider giving him some time off so that he can clear his mind, which may lead to a positive change.
Thank you.
From India, Amritsar
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