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Hi,
i am working as HR in an IT company for the last few months, which consist of 30 staff. In our company we have implemented attendance finger print machine in which each employee should mark attendance whever they walk in and out of the premise. But there are few staff who always forget or may be purposefully ignore this marking ,as a result i need to enter their time manually which is really an extra work for me. If its once or thrice in a month then it wont b a problem but they are repeating more than 10 days in a month. I reported this to my reporting officer and even send mail to those staff who is violating this rule. But still the same ,they haven't changed a bit.The reason they are saying that they are forgetting to mark the attendance.
Please advice me what measures can be taken to solve this issue. Everyday i am doing manual entry for this guys.
Thanks
nancy
28th October 2008 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
Dear Nancy,
You have mentioned that a process is in place. This is the automated system.
If this process is in place why are you still following an alternative, manual process?
The best way to build on processes is to take it to its logical conclusion. Either to its complete success or to its complete failure.
But if you duplicate the process, or provide an alternate process then please remember you have already stated that the original process has failed....and therefore must be removed.
Talk to your head, and enable those in charge to witness the pain of non compliance to a process......
hope this helped
regards
Joseph
28th October 2008 From India, Kochi
Thanks Joseph......i would like to know .........is it possible to attach any points/bonus (which can be encashed or can be added to performance appraisal) for the:icon1: attendance inorder to make the process effective.
Thanks
Nancy:huh:
29th October 2008 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
27 viewed and only one reply.............................please HR's help me out...............i would like to know about attcahing any points or bonus along with the attendance which can later on can be encashed or can be added as a bonus points in performance appraisal.................
PLEASE REPLY.............:huh::(:(:?:
29th October 2008 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
well I don’t think you need to attach any bonus for a smooth functioning of a company policy....instead you should just accelerate the issue and inform your seniors about it....and if it does not work...mark him absent on the days when he does not put his attendance instead of altering the policy...and before doing alll this just circulate a formal mail on the same
29th October 2008
Hi Nancy,
These are some of the areas which gives repeated headache for the HR depts especially in IT companies....As Joseph suggested the process has to be followed in complete details for the defined purpose. As you are aware, these so called people just trying to fool you by saying that they always forget to log in/out...may be just judging your abilities in dealing with such tricks for future "gimmicks"...be cool...make a list of such habitual "amnesia's" with details of date and time and put in the Notice board....i think within a month you will see a positive result...
As far as attaching any incentives alongwith a mandatory company policy is not a good move...in any case these weekness can be reflected in the performance apprisal..
All the best
Suresh
29th October 2008 From India, Kochi
Hi, I have experience in this and what I can suggest is, you may out with this report and email out to the sections head concern and they must get the manager approval, without the manager approval you may warn them by issuing warning letter if repeated.
29th October 2008 From Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
Well being team having small member you can do lots of activities from HR side related to employee relation. What i felt your approach towadrs your employee has to positive and HR is there to help them in any way.......Frist you need to change your approach well that would lead to a drastic change i guess!!
29th October 2008 From India, Pune
Actions


1) Send a reminder mail.

If still not done

2) Send warning Mail

if Still not done

3) Mark them absent for a single day and make them work

If still not done

4) Mark them absent for three days and Deduct the salary

If still not done

5) Send a Memo

If still not done

6) Send a warning letter for indiscipline

If still not done

7) Send a letter seeking explanation why he/she can't be terminated

If still done

8) Send a Termination Letter
29th October 2008 From India, Coimbatore
Action gives no result it gives only termination...... Be positive and approach positive results into result....
29th October 2008 From India, Pune
Dear Nancy,
I wanna knw, whn u have implemented this process? If it is more than 3 months, the people who is not following the process are doin purposefully. In such case u have to keep a check! Nancy, u hav to take sm serious action, such tat it sud affect in terms of money."Discipline comes by two means, one by self respect/ interest and the other by severe punishment". Keep rockin....
29th October 2008 From India, Mangaluru
Sir Sardhar is completely rite....
You need to take strict action against those employees..
Also you can provide attendance incentives..
If there is a system in place employees should respect & follow it. Please don't give them any alternatives.
Luv,
Meghna
Deduct their salary & they will never repeat this mistake.
29th October 2008 From India, Mumbai
i feel these attendance softwares are in fact developed to get hold of late comers and employees who try to sneak in without notice . See , change in any form is always resisted , it will take some time but with consistent effort from HR we can straemline all wrong practices in the company . if repeated oral , verbal reminders fail a sure shot remedy is to deduct the days salary but only after such information is passed in the organisation . we know when it comes to our pay we will do all to save n earn it
mini
29th October 2008 From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
cut the amt from their payment for the days they are not marked.... they may not repeat the same again then.....
29th October 2008
I fully concur with M. Peer Mohamed Sardhar. I too has faced this issue but after sufficient warning & advices, we marked them absent while processing salary & informed them accordingly , but on their request has not effected deductions . Thereafter all are religiously marking their attendance without any cause of complaint .
29th October 2008 From India, Mumbai
Hi! People who says i forget to do this after reminder is not only a liar. They get fear of being disciplined and punctual. Regards
29th October 2008 From India, Calcutta
Dear Nancy,
I suggest to prepare detail report of the employee who are not swiping and hold a meeting with all the manager and superiors, take their valuable suggestions. Put ball in thier court to bring down the situation......
29th October 2008 From India, Madras
Hai,
Instead of you entering their attendance manually, ask them to enter their own attendance manually if they fail to use the finger print machine. Once they realize the difficulty in doing that, their attitude and behaviour will change i hope. If they are held accountable for their own actions, i think they will be more careful with their actions.
29th October 2008 From India, New Delhi
Dear Nancy,
You can the restrict/exit the entry by a magnetic control door. Its quite common now a days. It gives the perfect solution for the problem. Unless you swipe/give finger print, the door will not be opened. So it ensures that all are swiping (let it be bio-metric or which ever type, this can be implemented). And ofcourse, it is cost effective and will reduce the redundancy too.
Hope this will be of use.
Regards
Indu
29th October 2008 From India, Bangalore
Nancy, Process their salaries only based on their finger print attendance, when it comes to money ALL will LEARN. Mirza
29th October 2008 From Kuwait, Kuwait
Hey Nancy
If the automated attendance is working fine, then dont wrk manually. First, U r increasing the extra work 4 u.. Second, Employees knw tht if they dont mark it there, then u will mark it manually. So anyways they r safe.
U have done ur job by informing them the consequences n reminding them few times.
Now this is the time to tk action. Calculate their per day salary, n start deducting the salary for the number of days they dont mark their attendance in the automated machine..
Believe me, They will nt repeat it again. N its ur job.. so dont feel shy or smthing.. just do it..
29th October 2008 From India, Delhi
Hi Nancy

You have only 30 people working in your unit ,you say.The process of marking attendance is also looking very simple -Just register your finger print for attendance to be done while entering and leaving workplace..And you have many people violating this process for like 10 days in a month.

Before setting up a process one should look into all aspects of the process.For eg what is the adherence level expected, validity of reasons for failure tolerance,etc.Please check what's making people violate the process either consciously or unconsciously.

At the outset I would go with the steps mentioned by Mr Sardar.However between Step 4 &5 please have a discussion with repeat offenders on non adherence with tracking data for last 3 months.Agree on step 6-8 and then proceed.

It is a question of self discipline and those who do not have integrity to adhere need not be in a system ,however qualified they may be.On the same hand only adherence and no contribution does not help.Only difference is we can help those who adhere.But the the people who fail to adhere ...God help them.

Best Regards

KayBee
29th October 2008 From United States
Dear Madam,
When we are working in a HRD we have to think of a way out in the same principle, unlike IR Department . what i mean is not to think of any punishive way. You award/reward the good resources......
You have to identify certain measurable factors like prompt attendance marking, obtaining advance leave sanction, good dress code etc and link it with some special pay, which you may pay ( even some advance pay, loan pay etc) once in a year/ 6 months/ 3 months. These measurable factors may be performance based or attitude based. Those who scores more will have to be awarded the best. Try this way. You will get success if not immediately atleast in long run.
Sridharan
29th October 2008 From India, New Delhi
Hi Nancy,
I personally believe that no process can be completed if shortcuts are made. Plus it sends wrong signals to those who adhere to the rules. I fully agree with Mr. Joseph and Mr. M. Peer Mohamed Sardhar and the steps they have suggested. There are other good suggestions apart from their's.
The question are... are you willing to go all the way and take action? Do your organization leaders support you in implementing the process or are you alone in this decision?
The IT professionals are doing their jobs to get paid. You have to do your job to get paid. There is nothing personal involved in the steps that you have to take for the benefit of the organization.
All the best :-)
29th October 2008
Hi Nancy,
I too came across the same situation, we are 200 + employees. We sent them notifications to use their access card and Biometric ( finger print) system. If we notice that they are not following the system we marked them as absent for the day. We did it for some time in a month and from next month everything got streemlined. People may have a simple reason saying that i forgot to do, when it effected their pay checks they are following the system perfectly. some times we have to be hard when employees are not following the system implemented by company.
Regards
Vamsi
29th October 2008 From India, Hyderabad
Hi Nancy,
This happens in almost many companies. Besides BPO, our company has a marketing division which is into Biometric products. Inspite of that also the marketing members forget to finger print. So we installed it near the security wall, wherein the guard will remind the staff to register the in/out time.
In the event of the staff failing to do so for 'ON DUTY', you have to copy the default time manually and export it while preparing attendance report. True... a double work.. What to do!
Regards,
Chandru
30th October 2008 From India, Madras
Hi,
Its well known that people always find it difficult to accept the changes. You can't have both automated and manual process.Stick to the automated process. Send repeated mails everyday on this new process and guide them sometimes people may not know how to do that. Stick on the Office Notice Board. Send the weekly status to the Heads with a copy to all. This will make them understand how serious it is and if you feel still there are people who do not register the attendance you can send a mail that following... who have not registered their attendance LOP will be process and am sure these steps will definitely bring a change as desired. All the best.
Regards
30th October 2008 From India, Madras
I agree with different mild opinion given by freinds. I would suggest that any person not following the proceedure especially not marking their attendance. have to be marked as abcent. This would definetly improve the situation. Please do take necessary sanction from the concerned before taking the action and i belive that they accept it in the larger interest of the organisation.
Srinivasan
30th October 2008
Hi Nancy,
I too came across the same situation, we are 120+ employees.
I am sending the missed punch details to each & every employee for every completed 15days and asked to give written approval from head of the department saying that missed punch format.
We have to take the print outs of attendance details and put to the management these are irregular not doing their punchs. Recently i have implemented and got success.
Regards
satish
30th October 2008 From India, Hyderabad
Nancy,
I suggest attendance finger print machine should be connected to the main access door. It develops into enforced finger print for every access.
Since this an automated system this can capture the entire staff movements. You can generate various reports for the day/week/month. I hope this could help you in monitoring attendance & movement.
You can present score card for your seniors on attendance, latecomer and leave management.
Please call me, if you need further assistance.
Harish Srinivas
9008003041


30th October 2008 From India, Bangalore
Dear Nancy,
The company HR policy must not change, each and every employee should follow. Dont introduce any new procedure, if they were not following mark them absent and those who are not following procedure send a warning mail to them.Mentioning that if it continues salary will be dedcuted and after that procedurw will follow automotically....
regards
viji
30th October 2008 From India, Madras
My Suggestion is to put up an notice at the entrance of your office / finger scan machine which can be seen clearly by employees entering in the office premises, that in case employees fail to scan their attendance in finger scan machine, then it would be marked as LWP as we are processing salary based on finger scan generated attendance report.
30th October 2008 From India, Mumbai
Dear Nancy,
You can take a middle way, I think not a hasty decision and or not a libral so. I can suggest you that make it tough to get authorisation for not following the company attendance process. You design a formate called attedance regularisation and get approval of their divisional heads on same day absentieesm. This will help you a lot.
Because you will never refuse directly to anyone or mark absent without their bosses consent, or if you do so its direct confrontation with employees. Although you have only 30 employess, then its quit feasible to control at this point also.
Good luck,
30th October 2008 From India, Gurgaon
Hi,
In attendance management never adopt a compromising formula. Ensure its strict compliance. If any one forgets, or deliberately refuses to mark his attendance, just treat the person as "absent" from work. You should issue 'Memos" to such persons about their absence. Dont allow any other manual system to work.
It is our experience that if the system is introduced with seriousness, people fall in line and the system works.
Cyril
30th October 2008 From India, Nagpur
First, do some arrangements so that nobody can enter or go out without affixing fingerprints - that is without affixing fingerprints, the door shouldnot open eitherside.
Second call them and advise that if you give a memo for this action,it would be a blackmark in their service record and affect the future.
Third,Issue a memo to them for misonduct of disobeyance under clause 14(3)(a) of the model standing orders and ask for explanation.Based on their explanation you can hold their increment of propose a fine also - which become a blackmark in their service record.
30th October 2008 From India, Madras

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Hi All
Very Nice Discussion .
I am Working as Hr assistant in Manufacturing Unit .
110 Employees And I am only Hr .
Leave managment Is Not in Place.
People do Mark Proxy Attendence .
Sometime Leave early from work useing Proxy.
Do not Give Leave application .
always Argues for the Absent Mark , eventhough there is entire day to Mark Present.
Overwrites Absent Mark .
Use threat to mark Present .
I am completint My 2nd Month In Organisation.
Trying to Put Attendence system in Place.
I agree with above comments about Marking absent and deducting Salary .
and not Putting Alternative for exiting system for excues Like forgetting to Mark.
I am Implementing the Solutions and Hoping it to Work.
But ofcource Upper Managment is Must to Implement to Solutions .
Best Regards
Pratap kamble
9923632170
30th October 2008 From India, Pune
Hi All,
Thanks a lot for helping me out...............i talked to my reporting officer regarding the salary /leave deduction ,if there is any violation in marking the attendance and he agreed to my point and gave me full support to implement it.
THANKS A LOT HR'S.....................YOU GUYS ARE ROCKING....THANKYOU SO MUCH
Regards
Nancy
30th October 2008 From India, Thiruvananthapuram
Dear Nancy,The same procedure is followed in our org. as well. The procedure should be min 2 to 5 non punch should be allowed, and after that if it still continues, they have to get the mispunch application signed by their HOD's, don't accept the applications without the sign of HOD's.n keep a record of such applications which will be useful if such situation take place again.RegardsMandeep Kaur
30th October 2008 From India, Gandhidham
Dear Nancy,
Sometimes you'll find that certain people really stretch the system to breaking point. You will find black sheep everywhere. If, after best efforts by your department to get all to avail the attendance system has failed, try putting out their names as "perpetual violators", on the Company Notice Board. Remeber, punishing employees by way of performance appraisal may not have the desired effect since, no one will know about it. Every individual values his/her self respect, and if that is violated, people will try to avoid the fault since such notices are negative reinforcements with positive effects, while sending out a message to all. Try it, it has succeeded on many occassions. If it succeeds do let me know.
Regards,
Raphael
30th October 2008
Dear Nancy,
Simply send a mail that leave will be automatically deducted for those who have not followed the process (before that, ensure that the process was communicated to all - verify artifacts like mail etc.) inspite of repeated reminders.
Just go ahead and deduct these days from their leave balance. Once it goes negative, LOP will make them follow the rules.
regards,
Priya
30th October 2008 From India, Madras
:icon10:Dear Nancy,
I understand problem. I have worked under this kind of attendence system.
Iwould advice you to desing a slip for attendence regularisation.(for those whose thumb impression got failed/ for those who forget to punch).
The slip has to be duly signed by his/her reporting head or authorised signatory. Also he/she has to mention the reason for filling the slip.
content of the slip:-
1. Name of the employee
2. Deptt.
3. Emp. code
4. Date
5.Reason for filling slip
6. time period( e.g.16oct to 21oct)
7. shift Hours
8. signature of reporting Head
9. Concerned Authority/Authorised Signatory
Feel free to call me in this regard.
This will really help you out.
Thanks & Regards
Vipin Kumar Manav
9990075625
30th October 2008 From India, New Delhi
We met the same problem in our company also. We informed this to our higher management and got approval for marking absent for those person as a last step.
30th October 2008 From India, Coimbatore
I am totally agreed with Mr Peer mohamed’s Reply. This is only the right Approach for the Professional HR
30th October 2008 From India, Ghaziabad
Dear Nancy,
I hope till now you have got sum idea as how to cope up with he situation.
I think u must inform ur senior immediately about the person who isn't following the rule. Also ask the employee with proper authority why he wasn't able to do so. Tell him for the first 3 times & evenif the situation isn't under control ask him to give written explanation but with ur superior's permission.
Hope it will enlighten u in sum way.
Tasneem Anis :)
30th October 2008 From India, Mumbai
Dear Nancy, I totally agree with Mr.Peer Mohammed . There are areas in HR were organisation’s rules & regulations has to be given priority which ever industry you are working with .
30th October 2008 From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Hi

You can take the following steps to ensure the proper execution and following the process by your employee:
  • Have attributes in your performance review form namely 1. Attendance 2. Behavior 3. Attitude 4. Discipline 5. Following Policies and Processes. You can give the rating to employees on the scale of 1 - 10. This section will be rated by you being the HR person there. When these areas are rated in the performance review, they are taken more seriously by employees as well as management.
  • Mark LWP or CL (leave without pay) for those days for which attendance is not marked by employees. You don't need to be very strict. Apply this action to only those who are not marking attendance even after several reminders. Sometimes you have to take such actions to get your organization's policies and processes in place. But make sure you properly discuss this with management before implementing it. Tell them the problem you are facing and why your organizations need to be process based as it is growing.
Hope that will be useful to you.
30th October 2008 From India, Delhi
Dear Nancy and all the Seniors,
Wish you happy and prosporous belated Diwali.
This type of casual nature is noticed in every organisation.
Taking a hrsh decision will not solve the issue.
The employee terminated for the casual attitude, can you give the assurance that the new employee will not repeat the same?
and if he does the same then again termination.............not accepted.
Tell the employee that it should be strictly followed.
If not keep on highlight the matter in open forum, intranet of the company, notice board or in a place where maximum number of employee can access.
This way you can try.
Termination from job will not solve the issue .
Thanks and regards,

30th October 2008 From India, Mumbai
Dear Nancy,
I don't think this is that much tidious process,
We can make this more simpler, by fixing it(scanner) at the entrance door of
your office where your security gaurd is sitting to monitor visitors,
For this, you should make your office entrance as automatic door which could
be linked with the attendance scanner(finger print), whenever your employees enters and exit they should register their finger print which is already stored with your systems,
by this way you can eliminate not only your attedance problem but also other problems regarding your employees entry/exit during office hours
NOTE: Office entrance door can be opened by making finger print scanning only
Regards,
Kumar

31st October 2008
Dear Nancy,
1. first you inform employee to make attendance you have to swap your finger in and out, other wise you will get LOP.
2. after informing if the employee not punching then inform to his boss.
3. you can make LOP.
31st October 2008 From India, Bangalore
Hi Nancy,
Call them for meetings. talk to them. Make them understand that it is necessary for them to do this and violating it is behaving like a student and you want them to work as an executive.
Even after this, if it repeats,
Try sending reminders to them with cc to their leads
Even after this, if it repeats,
Question their leads. Ask the leads to educate them
This will solve the issue.
G Priya Mani
31st October 2008 From India, Madras

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