Dear Senior Experts,
1. What are the circumstances for an employee Resign the service and Re-Join the same company immediately to withdraw the PF amount and Pension Fund in full?
2. Is there any time gap limit between resign (last day of working) and re-joining day the same company?
3. Ex: if the last working day is 31-10-2013 then can he/she get offer letter immediately for 01-11-2013? Is so then pls explain.
Notes:
a) All process should be in Legal and should not arise any problem for both Company and Employee.
b) Keeping in mind that PF amount withdrawal application should be submit after 60 days from the last day of leaving current service.
c) Re-joining means; New Offer Letter, New Documents, New employee ID, New PF a/c number, etc, etc, etc as like new fresher candidate.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
21. What are the circumstances for an employee Resign the service and Re-Join the same company immediately to withdraw the PF amount and Pension Fund in full?
2. Is there any time gap limit between resign (last day of working) and re-joining day the same company?
3. Ex: if the last working day is 31-10-2013 then can he/she get offer letter immediately for 01-11-2013? Is so then pls explain.
Notes:
a) All process should be in Legal and should not arise any problem for both Company and Employee.
b) Keeping in mind that PF amount withdrawal application should be submit after 60 days from the last day of leaving current service.
c) Re-joining means; New Offer Letter, New Documents, New employee ID, New PF a/c number, etc, etc, etc as like new fresher candidate.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Kumar
In construction industries the temporary workers are given F&F Settlement and after 3 days gap they will be engaged in other project (may or may not be the same location). In that case also the PF Number remains same.
Except death, Retirement cases there is a leave period to withdraw the PF. The employee must wait for 2 months and then he has to apply for PF withdrawal. If a person leaves the service in September, then the employee can apply for his EPF & EPS only during December, and if the PF department is immediately forwarding the application to RPFO without any delay, then he can get the money in January month end. In the same establishment one cannot have 2 difference PF Numbers. Hence after withdrawing the accumulation only he can rejoin the company. Because after withdrawal the existing number got ceased and new number can be allotted.
If the retrenched employee approaches the Labour Court for adding the previous service at the time of accepting second F&F Settlement for his benefits like Retrenchment Compensation, Gratuity, etc., how do you planned to tackle the situation.
You can take the employee back on your rolls after 3 months gap, so that he can withdraw his PF, and before engaging him on duty you can obtain an application from the employee that after resigning his job he is unable to get some other job and he left the job due to some problem and the problem got sorted out and he can engage himself without any disturbance, and he may be given with a chance to serve the organisation. Further he can certify that he will not claim any other benefit and he will be considered as like a fresher and new candidate to the company.
If a person leave the company on 31 oct 2013, then he can submit his PF Claim on December end and you you can submit the PF Claim form in 19 and 10C on first week of January 2014 at RPF Office. He will get the money by first week of Feb 14. You can engage the person on 01 Feb 2014.with New Offer letter (May be with same package or less and not more), New Documents, New Employee ID, New PF A/C Number as like new fresher candidate.
Hope your query got cleared. Further if you have any other doubt please do not hesitate to raise. Our members will surely guide you.
From India, Kumbakonam
In construction industries the temporary workers are given F&F Settlement and after 3 days gap they will be engaged in other project (may or may not be the same location). In that case also the PF Number remains same.
Except death, Retirement cases there is a leave period to withdraw the PF. The employee must wait for 2 months and then he has to apply for PF withdrawal. If a person leaves the service in September, then the employee can apply for his EPF & EPS only during December, and if the PF department is immediately forwarding the application to RPFO without any delay, then he can get the money in January month end. In the same establishment one cannot have 2 difference PF Numbers. Hence after withdrawing the accumulation only he can rejoin the company. Because after withdrawal the existing number got ceased and new number can be allotted.
If the retrenched employee approaches the Labour Court for adding the previous service at the time of accepting second F&F Settlement for his benefits like Retrenchment Compensation, Gratuity, etc., how do you planned to tackle the situation.
You can take the employee back on your rolls after 3 months gap, so that he can withdraw his PF, and before engaging him on duty you can obtain an application from the employee that after resigning his job he is unable to get some other job and he left the job due to some problem and the problem got sorted out and he can engage himself without any disturbance, and he may be given with a chance to serve the organisation. Further he can certify that he will not claim any other benefit and he will be considered as like a fresher and new candidate to the company.
If a person leave the company on 31 oct 2013, then he can submit his PF Claim on December end and you you can submit the PF Claim form in 19 and 10C on first week of January 2014 at RPF Office. He will get the money by first week of Feb 14. You can engage the person on 01 Feb 2014.with New Offer letter (May be with same package or less and not more), New Documents, New Employee ID, New PF A/C Number as like new fresher candidate.
Hope your query got cleared. Further if you have any other doubt please do not hesitate to raise. Our members will surely guide you.
From India, Kumbakonam
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your kind and valuable reply...
If the resigned employee get cleared all F&F settlement immediately when he/she resigns then also he/she needs to wait for 3 months for re-joining as a new employee???
All my concern is this case should not create any problem for employer & employee in future for PF settlement.
Thanks & Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
Thank you for your kind and valuable reply...
If the resigned employee get cleared all F&F settlement immediately when he/she resigns then also he/she needs to wait for 3 months for re-joining as a new employee???
All my concern is this case should not create any problem for employer & employee in future for PF settlement.
Thanks & Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
Dear KUMARAHS,
Here, the first question is why the employee is wants to rejoin immediately after settling his/her FnF..??
If his / her motive was to withdraw the EPF Fund, then the left member must be unemployed for 60 days from the date of leaving, then only he/she can withdraw the EPF Fund.
Before those 60 days, if he/she joined anywhere else or in the same organization also, then he/she can't withdraw the EPF Fund, as per the Act.
Where as, if that employee wants to rejoin the same organization again, then there is no need to wait for 3 months. He / She can join even after 1-2 day gap after taking proper job application. But, then he/she can't withdraw the EPF Fund, and this will also not create any problem in future for PF Settlement.
From India, Delhi
Here, the first question is why the employee is wants to rejoin immediately after settling his/her FnF..??
If his / her motive was to withdraw the EPF Fund, then the left member must be unemployed for 60 days from the date of leaving, then only he/she can withdraw the EPF Fund.
Before those 60 days, if he/she joined anywhere else or in the same organization also, then he/she can't withdraw the EPF Fund, as per the Act.
Where as, if that employee wants to rejoin the same organization again, then there is no need to wait for 3 months. He / She can join even after 1-2 day gap after taking proper job application. But, then he/she can't withdraw the EPF Fund, and this will also not create any problem in future for PF Settlement.
From India, Delhi
Almost every one thinks that withdrawing of your EPF amount after a job switch is totally fine and allowed, however as per law, it‟s illegal. You can only withdraw your EPF money only if you have no job at the time of withdrawing EPF and if 2 months have passed. Only transfer is allowed in case you get a new job and you switch to it. While there are no cases where EPF office tracks these things and takes up this matter, still just for your information you should know that if you got a new job and took it and then you are applying for withdrawal, its illegal as per law.
If at any given point of time during audit if it is ascertained that the employee has resigned only to withdraw money from the PF, such act is liable for penalize/punishable in the court of law for both employee and employer, so it is not advisable.
From India, Ahmadabad
If at any given point of time during audit if it is ascertained that the employee has resigned only to withdraw money from the PF, such act is liable for penalize/punishable in the court of law for both employee and employer, so it is not advisable.
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Bhuwan,
1. Employee having financial problems, so he/she needs to come out from that.
2. But no one following the rule of unemployed for 60 days from the date of leaving. 99% of the resigned employees who got immediate offer from other company were withdrawing PF amount.
3. Here is the main concern to get the PF amount and has to stay in the same company as a new employee.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
1. Employee having financial problems, so he/she needs to come out from that.
2. But no one following the rule of unemployed for 60 days from the date of leaving. 99% of the resigned employees who got immediate offer from other company were withdrawing PF amount.
3. Here is the main concern to get the PF amount and has to stay in the same company as a new employee.
Regards,
Kumar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Kumar
Eventhough if you settle the F&F Benefits to the outgoing employee, the employee must be unemployed at the time of EPF and EPS withdrawal. That's the reason I told you that you can keep the Form 10C & 19 ready for submission and on first or second working day in January 2014, you can handover the same to RPF Office directly with a request to clear the same without any delay as the person is in crisis. If you maintain good relationship with PF authorities then surely the person will get the claim settled within 20 to 30 days span.
That's the reason I told in my previous post, that the person can be engaged again from 01 Feb 2014.
If your organisation needs his service inevitably, then you can ask him to come for duty and the payment may be fixed on consolidated and the payment may be made on vouchers. This voucher payment will not be considered as continuing service for PF, Bonus and any other benefits. Here you have the responsibility to explain the employee regarding all the issues arise from this resignation/retrenchment and reinstating the employee back. He or his legal heir should not claim Gratuity or any other final benefits for the lapsed period and the break period for which you can take an undertaking from him in a Rs.100/- stamp paper
From India, Kumbakonam
Eventhough if you settle the F&F Benefits to the outgoing employee, the employee must be unemployed at the time of EPF and EPS withdrawal. That's the reason I told you that you can keep the Form 10C & 19 ready for submission and on first or second working day in January 2014, you can handover the same to RPF Office directly with a request to clear the same without any delay as the person is in crisis. If you maintain good relationship with PF authorities then surely the person will get the claim settled within 20 to 30 days span.
That's the reason I told in my previous post, that the person can be engaged again from 01 Feb 2014.
If your organisation needs his service inevitably, then you can ask him to come for duty and the payment may be fixed on consolidated and the payment may be made on vouchers. This voucher payment will not be considered as continuing service for PF, Bonus and any other benefits. Here you have the responsibility to explain the employee regarding all the issues arise from this resignation/retrenchment and reinstating the employee back. He or his legal heir should not claim Gratuity or any other final benefits for the lapsed period and the break period for which you can take an undertaking from him in a Rs.100/- stamp paper
From India, Kumbakonam
Dear Kumar,
I am totally agree with you that 99% worker don't follow these rules. But, being an HR Personnel its our duty to explain them the right thing..!! Further, considering it is on their wish.
Further, as you have mentioned that the employee is having financial problems, then he could take loan from the company. If your organisation needs his service inevitably, then your management should also understand his problem and approve him a loan.
As it seems that he is an old employee, as he is thinks that the withdrawn fund can overcome him from this financial crisis. So, if he is a member of EPF Fund for more than 7 years, then he can also take advance from EPFO by showing the valid reason.
By this way, he can easily overcome from the financial crisis.
From India, Delhi
I am totally agree with you that 99% worker don't follow these rules. But, being an HR Personnel its our duty to explain them the right thing..!! Further, considering it is on their wish.
Further, as you have mentioned that the employee is having financial problems, then he could take loan from the company. If your organisation needs his service inevitably, then your management should also understand his problem and approve him a loan.
As it seems that he is an old employee, as he is thinks that the withdrawn fund can overcome him from this financial crisis. So, if he is a member of EPF Fund for more than 7 years, then he can also take advance from EPFO by showing the valid reason.
By this way, he can easily overcome from the financial crisis.
From India, Delhi
Dear Kumar,
What you can do is to pay him wage not as salary for three months. If you really want to help him just show his as casual employee for three month with different name and when he actually joins show him as regular employee.
From India, Buldana
What you can do is to pay him wage not as salary for three months. If you really want to help him just show his as casual employee for three month with different name and when he actually joins show him as regular employee.
From India, Buldana
Hi Kumar,
From your post I understand that you have some money issues because of that you want to withdraw PF amount. I want to make some points here which might help you:
1. If you have money issues you can Partially withdraw your PF even if you are employed with the company, no need of resignation.
2. As you mentioned that, you will be re-joining the same company immediately, in that case company will not allow you to withdraw the PF amount because there should be a waiting period of 2 months. Since you will be rejoining the same company, that means your company is aware that you are in employment for those 2 months. Even if company allows there are chances of getting caught in PF audits which can attract penalty to employee as well the company.
3. If you are resigning the company only to withdraw PF, is not a good decision. company HR should not allow this.
4. If money is the only problem there are other alternatives which you can use, like ask for Salary in advance or en cash some leaves if possible or take a loan from the company.
I hope above points will be useful.
From India, Pune
From your post I understand that you have some money issues because of that you want to withdraw PF amount. I want to make some points here which might help you:
1. If you have money issues you can Partially withdraw your PF even if you are employed with the company, no need of resignation.
2. As you mentioned that, you will be re-joining the same company immediately, in that case company will not allow you to withdraw the PF amount because there should be a waiting period of 2 months. Since you will be rejoining the same company, that means your company is aware that you are in employment for those 2 months. Even if company allows there are chances of getting caught in PF audits which can attract penalty to employee as well the company.
3. If you are resigning the company only to withdraw PF, is not a good decision. company HR should not allow this.
4. If money is the only problem there are other alternatives which you can use, like ask for Salary in advance or en cash some leaves if possible or take a loan from the company.
I hope above points will be useful.
From India, Pune
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