Dear all,
I have been working in an organization for around 7 years. I have been internally transferred between two divisions previously. Now, I have been transferred to another division. However, they are not accepting my original date of joining, and I am unsure of what steps to take. Please help me.
I worked for 2 years in Division I and 3.8 years in Division II, both with the same joining date. Last year, without realizing, I applied for PF settlement from Division I due to financial need.
I have recently received a promotion along with the transfer to another division within the same group. The new division is reluctant to acknowledge my original joining date as the PF settlement was completed in the previous division.
I have explained that the PF settlement was an inadvertent mistake on my part. I kindly request some leniency considering my circumstances as I am facing several personal challenges.
I am willing to repay the withdrawn PF amount of Rs. 12,600, and I hope this gesture, along with my service and gratuity of Rs. 25,000, will be taken into account.
I find myself in a difficult situation and seek guidance on how to proceed to seek necessary benefits. Any assistance on how to approach the management in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Eagerly,
Regards,
jagjosh
From India, Madras
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I have been working in an organization for around 7 years. I have been internally transferred between two divisions previously. Now, I have been transferred to another division. However, they are not accepting my original date of joining, and I am unsure of what steps to take. Please help me.
I worked for 2 years in Division I and 3.8 years in Division II, both with the same joining date. Last year, without realizing, I applied for PF settlement from Division I due to financial need.
I have recently received a promotion along with the transfer to another division within the same group. The new division is reluctant to acknowledge my original joining date as the PF settlement was completed in the previous division.
I have explained that the PF settlement was an inadvertent mistake on my part. I kindly request some leniency considering my circumstances as I am facing several personal challenges.
I am willing to repay the withdrawn PF amount of Rs. 12,600, and I hope this gesture, along with my service and gratuity of Rs. 25,000, will be taken into account.
I find myself in a difficult situation and seek guidance on how to proceed to seek necessary benefits. Any assistance on how to approach the management in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Eagerly,
Regards,
jagjosh
From India, Madras
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Do you have the offer letter and appointment letter with you, which you received 7 years ago? This will help you establish your claim. You may have been transferred to different divisions within the organization, but the management remains the same, and there should be one corporate office.
It is not your mistake that you applied for PF and Gratuity and received them. The mistake lies with your corporate office for not verifying your transfer records and settling your PF and Gratuity based on the tenure of just one division. They are attempting to conceal their error by not conducting proper document checks and shifting the blame to you. It appears that your organization lacks control measures to monitor employee movements.
While you may be unaware of the statutory rules, the individuals at the head office or corporate office cannot afford to be so negligent. You should assert your claim with the appropriate authority; they will undoubtedly assist you.
Regards
From India, Madras
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2It is not your mistake that you applied for PF and Gratuity and received them. The mistake lies with your corporate office for not verifying your transfer records and settling your PF and Gratuity based on the tenure of just one division. They are attempting to conceal their error by not conducting proper document checks and shifting the blame to you. It appears that your organization lacks control measures to monitor employee movements.
While you may be unaware of the statutory rules, the individuals at the head office or corporate office cannot afford to be so negligent. You should assert your claim with the appropriate authority; they will undoubtedly assist you.
Regards
From India, Madras
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Dear saurav, I talked to my GM-HR, he said that there is no specific word have been mentioned in your II Division appointment letter that your service will be continued. please help me.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Clarification on Service Continuity and EPF Settlement
The very first thing I want to bring to your attention is that you are not continuing your services. Second, in your statement, you mentioned that you applied for EPF unknowingly. What do you mean by "unknowingly"? How can you say that you did this unknowingly when you also admitted that you were in need of money? Please correct yourself and accept this.
My dear friend, you need to accept the statement from your HR in Division-3 that they can't accept the continuation of your services because your EPF has been settled from the earlier division. For your information, there is a rule/procedure for claiming EPF that requires an employee to leave or resign from the current position/employment. Therefore, this is a correct statement, and you can't be counted as continuing in service.
From India, Gurgaon
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The very first thing I want to bring to your attention is that you are not continuing your services. Second, in your statement, you mentioned that you applied for EPF unknowingly. What do you mean by "unknowingly"? How can you say that you did this unknowingly when you also admitted that you were in need of money? Please correct yourself and accept this.
My dear friend, you need to accept the statement from your HR in Division-3 that they can't accept the continuation of your services because your EPF has been settled from the earlier division. For your information, there is a rule/procedure for claiming EPF that requires an employee to leave or resign from the current position/employment. Therefore, this is a correct statement, and you can't be counted as continuing in service.
From India, Gurgaon
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Dear Jagjosh,
The information given by you is not complete. You said you were transferred from Division I to II to III and so on.
1. Are these divisions in the same company or different companies/establishments with different names and different locations?
2. Do all these divisions have the same PF Employer code or different?
Please clarify as your case can only be decided based on these facts. I am sure you didn't receive a fresh appointment letter from each division when you were transferred between them, but only transfer letters directing you to join the Division Head. Am I correct?
There can be two companies in the same group, like the TATA group, Reliance group, etc., and when you mentioned "inter-transfer between the divisions," I am unclear. Could you provide more details?
I wonder how they settled your PF and gratuity while you still serve in the same company. This seems erroneous.
I think, prima facie, if you are not averse to raising an Industrial Dispute, you will have a chance of regaining your continuity of service. You may consult an Advocate with your documents.
Best of luck.
Kumar.S
From India, Bangalore
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The information given by you is not complete. You said you were transferred from Division I to II to III and so on.
1. Are these divisions in the same company or different companies/establishments with different names and different locations?
2. Do all these divisions have the same PF Employer code or different?
Please clarify as your case can only be decided based on these facts. I am sure you didn't receive a fresh appointment letter from each division when you were transferred between them, but only transfer letters directing you to join the Division Head. Am I correct?
There can be two companies in the same group, like the TATA group, Reliance group, etc., and when you mentioned "inter-transfer between the divisions," I am unclear. Could you provide more details?
I wonder how they settled your PF and gratuity while you still serve in the same company. This seems erroneous.
I think, prima facie, if you are not averse to raising an Industrial Dispute, you will have a chance of regaining your continuity of service. You may consult an Advocate with your documents.
Best of luck.
Kumar.S
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Kumar,
These divisions are part of the same company. However, each division has a different PF Employer Code. Division I has the Kerala code, Division II has the Chennai code, and Division III has the Bangalore code.
I received a new letter from Division II, but upon inquiry, they explained that since it is a new division within our group, they issued a fresh letter. They assured me that this would not affect the continuity of my service, so I decided to accept the letter.
Upon receiving my payslip, I noticed that my original Date of Joining in Division II was recorded from the beginning. There are no other supportive documents in Division II except for the payslip.
I do have my first appointment letter from the group, which I presented to Division III. However, they pointed out that there was no mention of service continuity in my Division II documents. They expressed their inability to grant me continuity based on this information, especially considering that I had withdrawn my PF in Division I.
Following the advice of Anil Kr Arora, I realize I have made several mistakes. It seems I should pursue continuity from Division II.
Clarification on PF Rules
I am curious to know if there is any provision in the PF rules stating that an employee's service will not continue in a group if their PF amount has been withdrawn. Please clarify.
Understanding Social Security Schemes
Additionally, I am interested in understanding if all social security schemes are intended for the benefit of employees.
If it is indeed the case that withdrawing my 2006-2008 PF contributions amounting to around Rs. 13,000 in September 2010 has resulted in the loss of my gratuity amounting to around Rs. 23,000, I am willing to repay the withdrawn amount with interest. Is there any provision within the PF guidelines for accepting this repayment and considering my request?
Regards,
Uday
From India, Madras
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These divisions are part of the same company. However, each division has a different PF Employer Code. Division I has the Kerala code, Division II has the Chennai code, and Division III has the Bangalore code.
I received a new letter from Division II, but upon inquiry, they explained that since it is a new division within our group, they issued a fresh letter. They assured me that this would not affect the continuity of my service, so I decided to accept the letter.
Upon receiving my payslip, I noticed that my original Date of Joining in Division II was recorded from the beginning. There are no other supportive documents in Division II except for the payslip.
I do have my first appointment letter from the group, which I presented to Division III. However, they pointed out that there was no mention of service continuity in my Division II documents. They expressed their inability to grant me continuity based on this information, especially considering that I had withdrawn my PF in Division I.
Following the advice of Anil Kr Arora, I realize I have made several mistakes. It seems I should pursue continuity from Division II.
Clarification on PF Rules
I am curious to know if there is any provision in the PF rules stating that an employee's service will not continue in a group if their PF amount has been withdrawn. Please clarify.
Understanding Social Security Schemes
Additionally, I am interested in understanding if all social security schemes are intended for the benefit of employees.
If it is indeed the case that withdrawing my 2006-2008 PF contributions amounting to around Rs. 13,000 in September 2010 has resulted in the loss of my gratuity amounting to around Rs. 23,000, I am willing to repay the withdrawn amount with interest. Is there any provision within the PF guidelines for accepting this repayment and considering my request?
Regards,
Uday
From India, Madras
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PF Transfer and Withdrawal Implications
Even if the PF codes are different, the old PF amount should be transferred to the new company. However, if you have withdrawn the PF, you must have signed a statement in the withdrawal form confirming that you are not employed anywhere where PF is applicable, or that you are now self-employed. Without this confirmation, PF cannot be withdrawn. This implies that you have effectively ended your service tenure with the first company, referred to as the Division, though legally it may be considered a separate company.
Even now, you should have your second company's (or division's, as you call it) PF balance transferred to the new company. However, if the companies are legally distinct, there may not be much that you can do regarding the continuity of service. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse unless one is an illiterate worker who can prove that the company deliberately misled him when shifting him (by calling it a transfer) to a different company.
Be cautious in the future.
From India, New Delhi
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Even if the PF codes are different, the old PF amount should be transferred to the new company. However, if you have withdrawn the PF, you must have signed a statement in the withdrawal form confirming that you are not employed anywhere where PF is applicable, or that you are now self-employed. Without this confirmation, PF cannot be withdrawn. This implies that you have effectively ended your service tenure with the first company, referred to as the Division, though legally it may be considered a separate company.
Even now, you should have your second company's (or division's, as you call it) PF balance transferred to the new company. However, if the companies are legally distinct, there may not be much that you can do regarding the continuity of service. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse unless one is an illiterate worker who can prove that the company deliberately misled him when shifting him (by calling it a transfer) to a different company.
Be cautious in the future.
From India, New Delhi
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The division of your organization where you have been transferred is not the same as before. Everything is different, including the location, state, PF code, and MOA. It is clear that this is not a transfer in any way. Please treat this change in employment accordingly.
Regards,
Mangesh Wakodkar
Sr. Executive HRD
From India, Pune
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Regards,
Mangesh Wakodkar
Sr. Executive HRD
From India, Pune
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