This thread is closed now. Thank you all for your contributions, thoughts & opinions
From India, Lucknow
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4From India, Lucknow
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Dear Captain,
This is an interesting article, and the first comment comes as a shock. Yes, it is a known issue of candidates' attitude and a few recruiters' too. The initiative of a forum is interesting. And to rsk, I'd say, go ahead and open another forum to blacklist corrupt HR and recruitment people for others to know.
Regards,
Shankar
RecruitPro
From India, Coimbatore
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This is an interesting article, and the first comment comes as a shock. Yes, it is a known issue of candidates' attitude and a few recruiters' too. The initiative of a forum is interesting. And to rsk, I'd say, go ahead and open another forum to blacklist corrupt HR and recruitment people for others to know.
Regards,
Shankar
RecruitPro
From India, Coimbatore
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Chand Pathak,
Accepting offers with multiple companies and then negotiating with them is not a crime or any wrongdoing. An employee has every right to negotiate his salary with the company. If the company feels that they can't afford a higher salary, then they can simply convey it to the employee, leaving it to his or her decision of accepting or denying it. Trying to impose a cap on such negotiations is like stifling one's fundamental rights and freedoms.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance.
From India, Bangalore
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Accepting offers with multiple companies and then negotiating with them is not a crime or any wrongdoing. An employee has every right to negotiate his salary with the company. If the company feels that they can't afford a higher salary, then they can simply convey it to the employee, leaving it to his or her decision of accepting or denying it. Trying to impose a cap on such negotiations is like stifling one's fundamental rights and freedoms.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance.
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Chand Pathak,
Maligning individuals publicly for the reasons given by you is neither ethical nor legal. It amounts to trying people in a kangaroo court, "witch hunting," and the possibility of an innocent person being victimized. It is not only a violation of Human Rights but also a violation of Privacy.
Taking names, especially in a public forum, i.e., on the web, and passing judgments unilaterally without giving the other party a chance to defend themselves, are not signs of a good, civilized society.
1. No show can be due to a number of genuine reasons.
2. Joining and leaving - in case a candidate feels that the assignment or the company is not what was promised; what options do they have?
3. & 4. Offers are just "offers"; they are not "binding contracts" - that is what employers say when they retract their offers!
5. Giving false information - There are appropriate laws for it.
In my humble opinion, no recruiting agency should act in a manner that implies they have been conferred a right to punish a candidate just because they did not act in a manner that could have yielded them their consultancy fees from the prospective employer. Such a vindictive attitude should not be there, as it is only through these candidates that Recruitment Consultants earn their living. A customer should always be treated in a way as advised by the Father of our nation, Mahatma Gandhi.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
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Maligning individuals publicly for the reasons given by you is neither ethical nor legal. It amounts to trying people in a kangaroo court, "witch hunting," and the possibility of an innocent person being victimized. It is not only a violation of Human Rights but also a violation of Privacy.
Taking names, especially in a public forum, i.e., on the web, and passing judgments unilaterally without giving the other party a chance to defend themselves, are not signs of a good, civilized society.
1. No show can be due to a number of genuine reasons.
2. Joining and leaving - in case a candidate feels that the assignment or the company is not what was promised; what options do they have?
3. & 4. Offers are just "offers"; they are not "binding contracts" - that is what employers say when they retract their offers!
5. Giving false information - There are appropriate laws for it.
In my humble opinion, no recruiting agency should act in a manner that implies they have been conferred a right to punish a candidate just because they did not act in a manner that could have yielded them their consultancy fees from the prospective employer. Such a vindictive attitude should not be there, as it is only through these candidates that Recruitment Consultants earn their living. A customer should always be treated in a way as advised by the Father of our nation, Mahatma Gandhi.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
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Commendable effort. Keep up the good work. All concerned please contribute generously with proper consideration.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Excellent approach, but receiving offers from different companies is a trend today. If you can't provide a better package, then showcase your additional facilities and working culture. Some companies may not have a strong salary structure, but they compensate with amazing benefits and facilities along with high job security.
Please let me know if you need any additional assistance.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Please let me know if you need any additional assistance.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Hi ChandPathak,
A very nice and useful effort.
A candidate who thinks to play with the companies can be put in check by this procedure. They fear and most change their attitude.
However, there are also some problems with the employers:
1) Job vacancies will be posted. Even if the application has been sent in time immediately, with 100% required and desired qualifications and experience, the candidate doesn't even get the interview call. The candidate's effort and expense in sending the application go to waste.
2) If called for the interview, the candidate will have to bear his/her own expenses to attend the interview (for some companies). Even if the candidate has appeared on scheduled time for the interview, he/she may have to wait for a long time for the interviewer to perform his duty for the purpose. This may happen if there are more candidates for an interview. But this happens even when there is a single candidate, due to negligence.
3) Sometimes candidates get rejected due to being unable to answer irrelevant questions. Those questions are in no way related to the vacant position. They don't fall under behavioral, attitude, subject matter, experience, etc. They get rejected only because the interviewers don't get the answers they expected.
4) After the completion of the interview, there would be no specific fixed time declared for results, either positive or negative. The candidate will be orally informed that he/she may get a call within a week. But it doesn't happen. Even the interviewer doesn't know when he can finalize. If not qualified in the interview, the candidate doesn't receive any intimation of the same through email, telephone, or SMS, which is a minimum responsibility.
I ONCE AGAIN QUOTE THAT THIS HAPPENS WITH SOME COMPANIES AND SOME CANDIDATES only... NOT ALL....
AS LIKE ONLY SOME CANDIDATES TRY TO CHEAT... NOT ALL
Can these issues also be resolved by any source?
Thanks & Regards
CRK
From India, Vijayawada
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A very nice and useful effort.
A candidate who thinks to play with the companies can be put in check by this procedure. They fear and most change their attitude.
However, there are also some problems with the employers:
1) Job vacancies will be posted. Even if the application has been sent in time immediately, with 100% required and desired qualifications and experience, the candidate doesn't even get the interview call. The candidate's effort and expense in sending the application go to waste.
2) If called for the interview, the candidate will have to bear his/her own expenses to attend the interview (for some companies). Even if the candidate has appeared on scheduled time for the interview, he/she may have to wait for a long time for the interviewer to perform his duty for the purpose. This may happen if there are more candidates for an interview. But this happens even when there is a single candidate, due to negligence.
3) Sometimes candidates get rejected due to being unable to answer irrelevant questions. Those questions are in no way related to the vacant position. They don't fall under behavioral, attitude, subject matter, experience, etc. They get rejected only because the interviewers don't get the answers they expected.
4) After the completion of the interview, there would be no specific fixed time declared for results, either positive or negative. The candidate will be orally informed that he/she may get a call within a week. But it doesn't happen. Even the interviewer doesn't know when he can finalize. If not qualified in the interview, the candidate doesn't receive any intimation of the same through email, telephone, or SMS, which is a minimum responsibility.
I ONCE AGAIN QUOTE THAT THIS HAPPENS WITH SOME COMPANIES AND SOME CANDIDATES only... NOT ALL....
AS LIKE ONLY SOME CANDIDATES TRY TO CHEAT... NOT ALL
Can these issues also be resolved by any source?
Thanks & Regards
CRK
From India, Vijayawada
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Dear Mr. Chandpathak,
I completely disagree with your viewpoint. Your statements and judgment are biased. Since you are a consultant, you have given the viewpoints of the majority of consultants. If a candidate ditches the consultant or company, the consultant and company also, at times, either do not respond to the candidate or give silly excuses, which is not right on their part as well.
Secondly, we are no one to judge whether the other person is right or wrong just based on our perception. If you feel that such candidates should be blacklisted, then what about those unethical consultants and companies? Aren't they supposed to be blacklisted as well?
Forget about other companies or consultants, just tell me, has your firm been correct in their approach every time while dealing with the candidates? Did you provide feedback on time every time, or did you answer their calls diligently?
Waiting for your reply.
From India, New Delhi
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I completely disagree with your viewpoint. Your statements and judgment are biased. Since you are a consultant, you have given the viewpoints of the majority of consultants. If a candidate ditches the consultant or company, the consultant and company also, at times, either do not respond to the candidate or give silly excuses, which is not right on their part as well.
Secondly, we are no one to judge whether the other person is right or wrong just based on our perception. If you feel that such candidates should be blacklisted, then what about those unethical consultants and companies? Aren't they supposed to be blacklisted as well?
Forget about other companies or consultants, just tell me, has your firm been correct in their approach every time while dealing with the candidates? Did you provide feedback on time every time, or did you answer their calls diligently?
Waiting for your reply.
From India, New Delhi
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What about if companies fire you on the basis of company's non-performance or any management dispute or slowdown, will you make a forum to blacklist the same organization?
I really don't see if somebody leaves you for money, whether we accept it or not or we believe in research which says money is the 4th or 5th point for motivation, but it comes first and foremost when a person is unhappy with the hike in % or sees his/her colleagues are getting double-digit salary growth in the same economy.
Yes, you can blacklist somebody on the basis of stealing the company information, fidelity, sharing the info with the competition, and so on. Rejecting your company offer before joining is not a heinous crime to get blacklisted. In this case, you would have to blacklist at least 50% of IT professionals for 2006-07 (Boom time).
From India, Mumbai
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I really don't see if somebody leaves you for money, whether we accept it or not or we believe in research which says money is the 4th or 5th point for motivation, but it comes first and foremost when a person is unhappy with the hike in % or sees his/her colleagues are getting double-digit salary growth in the same economy.
Yes, you can blacklist somebody on the basis of stealing the company information, fidelity, sharing the info with the competition, and so on. Rejecting your company offer before joining is not a heinous crime to get blacklisted. In this case, you would have to blacklist at least 50% of IT professionals for 2006-07 (Boom time).
From India, Mumbai
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I agree with CRK, Shriya, and Joshi. Also, thank you, guys. I am also an HR professional and have come across these kinds of situations. However, Mr. Chatak's statement is not at all acceptable. Your statement shows immaturity. We provided interview feedback on time and issued offers on time, but some candidates did not turn up after receiving the offer letters.
Sometimes, they provide fake details in their profiles, but we can easily spot them. As an HR professional, you need to analyze the candidature during the interview. Not all candidates do this, but some of them do. Employers and candidates both have issues. We can't blame anyone in this regard. It all depends on the situation and the company background. We can't force them to join a particular company/position/salary. Candidates have every right to make a decision. If a company isn't good and lacks proper management, employees will naturally leave without notice or information.
First, find a solution to this issue instead of blacklisting candidates. Think practically and maturely.
Your idea of bringing back blacklisted candidates is unacceptable and not appreciable. Unfortunately, many HR professionals have given positive replies to this thread.
Let's consider some opinions from our seniors on this matter.
From India
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Sometimes, they provide fake details in their profiles, but we can easily spot them. As an HR professional, you need to analyze the candidature during the interview. Not all candidates do this, but some of them do. Employers and candidates both have issues. We can't blame anyone in this regard. It all depends on the situation and the company background. We can't force them to join a particular company/position/salary. Candidates have every right to make a decision. If a company isn't good and lacks proper management, employees will naturally leave without notice or information.
First, find a solution to this issue instead of blacklisting candidates. Think practically and maturely.
Your idea of bringing back blacklisted candidates is unacceptable and not appreciable. Unfortunately, many HR professionals have given positive replies to this thread.
Let's consider some opinions from our seniors on this matter.
From India
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Hello! Firstly, I really wonder what happens to these types of thread owners. Why do they become invisible after posting threads? If you are not confident, then kindly don't start such issues. If you start, then please be part of it.
Secondly, I don't agree with this idea at all. Though I am also an HR professional, we can't be immature in our thought processes and actions. Many times problems arise from the company front as well, but no one will accept it. We won't be blacklisting them as we don't have many companies, but we do have many candidates, right? It's better if we think logically and brainstorm. I guess we HR professionals can come up with better and practical solutions. Let's try for that and not get into all these biased ways. Sorry to say, but according to me, it's not the right method. Thanks.
From India, Delhi
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Secondly, I don't agree with this idea at all. Though I am also an HR professional, we can't be immature in our thought processes and actions. Many times problems arise from the company front as well, but no one will accept it. We won't be blacklisting them as we don't have many companies, but we do have many candidates, right? It's better if we think logically and brainstorm. I guess we HR professionals can come up with better and practical solutions. Let's try for that and not get into all these biased ways. Sorry to say, but according to me, it's not the right method. Thanks.
From India, Delhi
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Hello all,
I am really dismayed to see such types of postings. I stand with all the fellow members who are against the current topic. Blacklisting a candidate is not a minor issue, and I am certain that if the topic owner reflects on their past, they may have also encountered similar situations at some point.
By taking such actions, we risk harming someone's promising career without being aware of the practical and actual circumstances that led to it.
As someone mentioned, mistakes were made by both parties. Seeking better opportunities is not inherently wrong.
From India, Hyderabad
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I am really dismayed to see such types of postings. I stand with all the fellow members who are against the current topic. Blacklisting a candidate is not a minor issue, and I am certain that if the topic owner reflects on their past, they may have also encountered similar situations at some point.
By taking such actions, we risk harming someone's promising career without being aware of the practical and actual circumstances that led to it.
As someone mentioned, mistakes were made by both parties. Seeking better opportunities is not inherently wrong.
From India, Hyderabad
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I don't agree; we are not authorized to track all those details publicly. We have no rights to stop anybody's career. Yes, he made a mistake, but can you answer why he is committing this kind of mistake? He might have some personal problems or might have worked for more than five years for a single organization and could not get the right appraisal because of a bad boss, internal politics, or some other reason that we cannot answer. So please don't track all these details and please don't play with anybody's emotions.
Kindly think about it practically and consider how you would feel if it were to happen to you. If you want to track and take action, then please take action against politicians from every industry who are playing with everybody's emotions everywhere.
Thanks & Regards,
GP
(Think thrice before taking any action against anybody)
From India, Hyderabad
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Kindly think about it practically and consider how you would feel if it were to happen to you. If you want to track and take action, then please take action against politicians from every industry who are playing with everybody's emotions everywhere.
Thanks & Regards,
GP
(Think thrice before taking any action against anybody)
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Shriya,
Thanks for your post. I had almost forgotten this topic when I suddenly received an update and saw your posting. I agree some companies and consultants too behave in an unprofessional and unethical manner and we must deal with them too. Our (Indians) "chalta hai" attitude and innate tolerance towards all things corrupt and unprofessional need to change.
On my part, I am trying to do that. Please do give us a call as a candidate and see for yourself. I even try to counsel candidates if I have the time to the best of my abilities.
Several clients have cheated us of our hard-earned labor, but we find this no good reason to turn unethical ourselves. We simply drop the clients.
I still believe the candidates "shopping" for offers is not correct. I don't see most of them negotiating for a "better role", "more responsibilities", "better career path", "better training opportunity", etc.
It is mostly MONEY.
I believe most are led by their greed to play one offer against another. If some people see this as their fundamental right, I am sorry to hear this.
Accepting the offer and then joining elsewhere offered more can't be a genuine reason. It is plain old GREED. Is greed a virtue? Is it a fundamental right? We need to do a bit of thinking and get to the root cause.
From India, Lucknow
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Thanks for your post. I had almost forgotten this topic when I suddenly received an update and saw your posting. I agree some companies and consultants too behave in an unprofessional and unethical manner and we must deal with them too. Our (Indians) "chalta hai" attitude and innate tolerance towards all things corrupt and unprofessional need to change.
On my part, I am trying to do that. Please do give us a call as a candidate and see for yourself. I even try to counsel candidates if I have the time to the best of my abilities.
Several clients have cheated us of our hard-earned labor, but we find this no good reason to turn unethical ourselves. We simply drop the clients.
I still believe the candidates "shopping" for offers is not correct. I don't see most of them negotiating for a "better role", "more responsibilities", "better career path", "better training opportunity", etc.
It is mostly MONEY.
I believe most are led by their greed to play one offer against another. If some people see this as their fundamental right, I am sorry to hear this.
Accepting the offer and then joining elsewhere offered more can't be a genuine reason. It is plain old GREED. Is greed a virtue? Is it a fundamental right? We need to do a bit of thinking and get to the root cause.
From India, Lucknow
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Yes, I saw the responses, but I don't see any solution. Most are recommending that we accept this as a fundamental right of candidates. None has so far come up with an alternate solution to check this nuisance.
If the candidate has accepted an offer after going through many rounds of interviews, after searching for facts about the organization on the net, talking to others, etc., it only seems that he has taken the decision to accept the offer knowing fully well what he is getting into.
Why then suddenly does he find some fault with the company or have a "genuine reason" to join elsewhere? - AFTER the offer.
This mostly happens AFTER the offer; it hardly happens during the selection process. The drop rate during the selection process is negligible, and AFTER the offer is significant.
I agree salary negotiation not working out between the candidate & client happens. It is perfectly fine to REFUSE an offer, but ACCEPTING the offer and then pitching this offer elsewhere to get a better offer and ultimately joining the OTHER company AFTER accepting the FIRST offer is not Freedom of choice by any standards.
From India, Lucknow
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If the candidate has accepted an offer after going through many rounds of interviews, after searching for facts about the organization on the net, talking to others, etc., it only seems that he has taken the decision to accept the offer knowing fully well what he is getting into.
Why then suddenly does he find some fault with the company or have a "genuine reason" to join elsewhere? - AFTER the offer.
This mostly happens AFTER the offer; it hardly happens during the selection process. The drop rate during the selection process is negligible, and AFTER the offer is significant.
I agree salary negotiation not working out between the candidate & client happens. It is perfectly fine to REFUSE an offer, but ACCEPTING the offer and then pitching this offer elsewhere to get a better offer and ultimately joining the OTHER company AFTER accepting the FIRST offer is not Freedom of choice by any standards.
From India, Lucknow
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Hi Vijeta,
You say: "come up with better and practical solutions...." I would appreciate if you could suggest any alternative that can stop this problem. Here we must focus on those candidates who are "Shop" for offers. If you believe that "shopping" for offers is correct, please let us all know. Otherwise, let's have some good suggestions. I'll retract and take back my suggestion to blacklist rogue candidates. All I am looking for is to find a solution wherein rogue candidates are forced to think TWICE before ditching all parties involved in the selection process and wasting everybody's time, energy, and money to satisfy their own interests.
1. Politicians cheat the country of its wealth - because they are in a position to do so.
2. Candidates cheat companies - because they have the freedom of choice. It is cheating nonetheless in both cases.
From India, Lucknow
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You say: "come up with better and practical solutions...." I would appreciate if you could suggest any alternative that can stop this problem. Here we must focus on those candidates who are "Shop" for offers. If you believe that "shopping" for offers is correct, please let us all know. Otherwise, let's have some good suggestions. I'll retract and take back my suggestion to blacklist rogue candidates. All I am looking for is to find a solution wherein rogue candidates are forced to think TWICE before ditching all parties involved in the selection process and wasting everybody's time, energy, and money to satisfy their own interests.
1. Politicians cheat the country of its wealth - because they are in a position to do so.
2. Candidates cheat companies - because they have the freedom of choice. It is cheating nonetheless in both cases.
From India, Lucknow
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Dear All,
I feel most of the replies were emotional. I would appreciate and encourage if we can have some practical solutions and suggestions to all the problems of rogue candidates, consultants, and companies mentioned by everyone. I respect everybody's opinion, but we are back where we started - some justifying candidates' actions and some against it.
In this scenario, it will be difficult to find a solution because for some, no problem exists. By the way, thank you all for contributing. I hope you all agree that we need to agree to disagree if we want to make ours a better society. I am resting my case. It was a good discussion. If, in the process, I caused any hurt to anybody's sentiments, I sincerely apologize.
I don't know how to close this thread! But if it helps - I declare this thread closed on May 15, 2010. All those who wish to air their views may do so before that.
Thanks.
From India, Lucknow
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I feel most of the replies were emotional. I would appreciate and encourage if we can have some practical solutions and suggestions to all the problems of rogue candidates, consultants, and companies mentioned by everyone. I respect everybody's opinion, but we are back where we started - some justifying candidates' actions and some against it.
In this scenario, it will be difficult to find a solution because for some, no problem exists. By the way, thank you all for contributing. I hope you all agree that we need to agree to disagree if we want to make ours a better society. I am resting my case. It was a good discussion. If, in the process, I caused any hurt to anybody's sentiments, I sincerely apologize.
I don't know how to close this thread! But if it helps - I declare this thread closed on May 15, 2010. All those who wish to air their views may do so before that.
Thanks.
From India, Lucknow
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Dear Mr. Raj Kumar,
I would request you to revisit my list which describes what kind of candidates we must blacklist:
1. No show on the date of joining
2. Joining and leaving without notice, reason, or information within a week.
3. Accepting offer and refusing to join on weak or flimsy grounds
4. Accepting offer and then becoming untraceable or unapproachable
5. Giving false information on his/her CV about qualifications, experience, or projects, fake documents with the intent to cheat during the hiring process.
Please let me know if you would have sympathy with the candidates as mentioned above.
Also, please let me know - in your opinion, how many out of 10 such candidates would have a "genuine" reason not to show up on the day of joining. Please remember that this is a "No Show". If there is a genuine reason, a sincere candidate would have called and discussed with the HR Manager or maybe pushed his/her joining date. He/She does not become untraceable, and this does not happen "once in a while" but fairly regularly at all levels.
Please let us know if a "No Show" is acceptable to you.
Raj Kumar Hansdah stated the following:
Maligning individuals publicly for the reasons given by you is neither ethical nor legal. It amounts to trying people in a kangaroo court, "witch-hunting," and the possibility of an innocent person being victimized. It is not only a violation of human rights but also a violation of privacy.
Taking names, especially in a public forum, i.e., on the web, and passing judgments unilaterally without giving the other party a chance to defend himself; I do not think are the signs of a good, civilized society.
1. No show can be due to a number of genuine reasons.
2. Joining & Leaving - in case a candidate feels that the assignment or the company is not what was promised; what option does he have?
3. & 4. Offers are just "offers"; they are not "binding contracts" - that is what employers say when they retract their offers!
5. Giving false information - There are appropriate laws for it.
In my humble opinion, no recruiting agency should act in a manner that implies they have been conferred a right to punish a candidate just because he did not act in a way that could have yielded them their consultancy fees from the prospective employer. Such vindictive attitudes should not be there, as it is only through these candidates that Recruitment Consultants earn their living. A customer should always be treated in a way as advised by the Father of our nation, Mahatma Gandhi.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Lucknow
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I would request you to revisit my list which describes what kind of candidates we must blacklist:
1. No show on the date of joining
2. Joining and leaving without notice, reason, or information within a week.
3. Accepting offer and refusing to join on weak or flimsy grounds
4. Accepting offer and then becoming untraceable or unapproachable
5. Giving false information on his/her CV about qualifications, experience, or projects, fake documents with the intent to cheat during the hiring process.
Please let me know if you would have sympathy with the candidates as mentioned above.
Also, please let me know - in your opinion, how many out of 10 such candidates would have a "genuine" reason not to show up on the day of joining. Please remember that this is a "No Show". If there is a genuine reason, a sincere candidate would have called and discussed with the HR Manager or maybe pushed his/her joining date. He/She does not become untraceable, and this does not happen "once in a while" but fairly regularly at all levels.
Please let us know if a "No Show" is acceptable to you.
Raj Kumar Hansdah stated the following:
Maligning individuals publicly for the reasons given by you is neither ethical nor legal. It amounts to trying people in a kangaroo court, "witch-hunting," and the possibility of an innocent person being victimized. It is not only a violation of human rights but also a violation of privacy.
Taking names, especially in a public forum, i.e., on the web, and passing judgments unilaterally without giving the other party a chance to defend himself; I do not think are the signs of a good, civilized society.
1. No show can be due to a number of genuine reasons.
2. Joining & Leaving - in case a candidate feels that the assignment or the company is not what was promised; what option does he have?
3. & 4. Offers are just "offers"; they are not "binding contracts" - that is what employers say when they retract their offers!
5. Giving false information - There are appropriate laws for it.
In my humble opinion, no recruiting agency should act in a manner that implies they have been conferred a right to punish a candidate just because he did not act in a way that could have yielded them their consultancy fees from the prospective employer. Such vindictive attitudes should not be there, as it is only through these candidates that Recruitment Consultants earn their living. A customer should always be treated in a way as advised by the Father of our nation, Mahatma Gandhi.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Lucknow
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