Hi dear all,
Employee is giving threats to me, abusing the company, and shouting in the company.
I am an HR manager. We issued a termination letter to the employee who is in probation. We served him one month notice and provided him with full and final payment.
We have a union, and he is a member of the union. Now, he is asking for one month additional salary as he is being terminated. Being in probation, we have denied him that.
Now, he has become aggressive, issuing threats to me, using abusive language, and shouting. He is doing everything to pressure us to give in to his demand.
I have handled it assertively, asked him that such threats will not work, and we can't pay him one month salary.
I have asked the employer not to give in to his demand and not to reward bad behavior.
He is signaling that he can go for "goondagardi". Company employees are showing sympathy to me.
I have joined this company 3 months back, and I am an MBA HR.
How can we, HR people, handle these types of situations effectively?
Regards, Pratap M Kamble 9923632170 HR Manager Maruti Care Point, Pune. :icon1:
From India, Pune
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1Employee is giving threats to me, abusing the company, and shouting in the company.
I am an HR manager. We issued a termination letter to the employee who is in probation. We served him one month notice and provided him with full and final payment.
We have a union, and he is a member of the union. Now, he is asking for one month additional salary as he is being terminated. Being in probation, we have denied him that.
Now, he has become aggressive, issuing threats to me, using abusive language, and shouting. He is doing everything to pressure us to give in to his demand.
I have handled it assertively, asked him that such threats will not work, and we can't pay him one month salary.
I have asked the employer not to give in to his demand and not to reward bad behavior.
He is signaling that he can go for "goondagardi". Company employees are showing sympathy to me.
I have joined this company 3 months back, and I am an MBA HR.
How can we, HR people, handle these types of situations effectively?
Regards, Pratap M Kamble 9923632170 HR Manager Maruti Care Point, Pune. :icon1:
From India, Pune
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Dear Pratap,
Do not worry about threats; this is part of our duty. You should file an FIR against that employee, meet the police, and seek their help. Legally, do not pay him anything; otherwise, it will set a wrong precedent.
Thank you.
JS Malik
From India, Delhi
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Do not worry about threats; this is part of our duty. You should file an FIR against that employee, meet the police, and seek their help. Legally, do not pay him anything; otherwise, it will set a wrong precedent.
Thank you.
JS Malik
From India, Delhi
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Sir,
I am not a senior or have not dealt with such a situation. But here is what I feel about it:
The terminated employee is frustrated over losing his job and has still not been able to accept that fact. This would take some time until he realizes that he is wasting his own time and life will still keep moving. Tomorrow he has to find another job for himself, and he cannot have that much time to wait for him. Also, if anyone does a background check on him, his attitude will kill the opportunity of a new landing. The next time he tries to get in touch and threaten you, please let him know that he is threatening his own life. All this will not let the company do anything for his career. He has to get back to reality.
I believe you have maintained your professionalism, and that's a task done well! Need not reciprocate to what he has to say or threaten. And if he still says that, tell him very confidently that he is forcing you to take legal action, which can cause a huge disaster to his own life. And if anything happens to you, it's a known fact among all employees that this person has been threatening you.
It's a common tendency that when people are frustrated, we tend to show our anger on others. Just tell him he need not go to the extent of Goondas where the result will not benefit him at any cause. Just tell him that it's on the professional front he has been terminated, and he need not have to take it to personal.
Inform your security not to let him in.
You have joined three months back. This is the time to show that you are set to continue with full confidence no matter what.
From what you have mentioned, it looks like he is desperate for a job, and he needs monetary support. He has himself lowered his self-esteem. I pity him and also the HR people who have to face these issues. I know it just increases the pressure altogether. So many things at one time.
From India, Madras
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I am not a senior or have not dealt with such a situation. But here is what I feel about it:
The terminated employee is frustrated over losing his job and has still not been able to accept that fact. This would take some time until he realizes that he is wasting his own time and life will still keep moving. Tomorrow he has to find another job for himself, and he cannot have that much time to wait for him. Also, if anyone does a background check on him, his attitude will kill the opportunity of a new landing. The next time he tries to get in touch and threaten you, please let him know that he is threatening his own life. All this will not let the company do anything for his career. He has to get back to reality.
I believe you have maintained your professionalism, and that's a task done well! Need not reciprocate to what he has to say or threaten. And if he still says that, tell him very confidently that he is forcing you to take legal action, which can cause a huge disaster to his own life. And if anything happens to you, it's a known fact among all employees that this person has been threatening you.
It's a common tendency that when people are frustrated, we tend to show our anger on others. Just tell him he need not go to the extent of Goondas where the result will not benefit him at any cause. Just tell him that it's on the professional front he has been terminated, and he need not have to take it to personal.
Inform your security not to let him in.
You have joined three months back. This is the time to show that you are set to continue with full confidence no matter what.
From what you have mentioned, it looks like he is desperate for a job, and he needs monetary support. He has himself lowered his self-esteem. I pity him and also the HR people who have to face these issues. I know it just increases the pressure altogether. So many things at one time.
From India, Madras
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As you have rightly mentioned, I should seek help from the police. I hope they would assist the company professionally. I agree with you that this is part of our duty. Thank you for your useful reply. This has reinforced my belief in CiteHR as a resource for our company's HR. Thank you. :)
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Your reply is helpful and refreshing. I agree when you say that he is threatening his own life this way. Yes, it does put pressure on you, but at the same time, it is an opportunity to develop your skill to handle such difficult situations. These replies have reinforced my belief in citehr as a source for company HR. Keep up the good work :).
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Dear Mr. Pratap,
As others have advised, you can proceed with legal action.
In the meantime, you can issue a circular in the office stating:
This is to inform that Mr. ______ has been terminated from service as of ____.
This is for your information. All employees are advised not to engage in any official communication with him. This will send a clear signal to all employees and to him that you are prepared to take action.
From India, Madras
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As others have advised, you can proceed with legal action.
In the meantime, you can issue a circular in the office stating:
This is to inform that Mr. ______ has been terminated from service as of ____.
This is for your information. All employees are advised not to engage in any official communication with him. This will send a clear signal to all employees and to him that you are prepared to take action.
From India, Madras
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Dear Pratap,
Please be cautious of this kind of advice because this terminated employee has no business with your company anymore and he did not enjoy the position that could have performed any kind of transactions on behalf of your company. Therefore, it's better to avoid this kind of insulting approach towards that terminated employee by listing information of his termination. By this act, you are aggravating the situation. Intimidation by a terminated employee in frustration can be understood, but that does not necessarily mean he will cause harm to you. As a precaution, you can register a police complaint.
That's all.
Badlu
From Saudi Arabia
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Please be cautious of this kind of advice because this terminated employee has no business with your company anymore and he did not enjoy the position that could have performed any kind of transactions on behalf of your company. Therefore, it's better to avoid this kind of insulting approach towards that terminated employee by listing information of his termination. By this act, you are aggravating the situation. Intimidation by a terminated employee in frustration can be understood, but that does not necessarily mean he will cause harm to you. As a precaution, you can register a police complaint.
That's all.
Badlu
From Saudi Arabia
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Take in confidence of your sr. management. I think above points will help you to solve this type of problems. Regards, Mahesh M Ayati Pune
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Hi Pratap,
Maintain your attitude in a professional way. I would suggest that your management seek legal advice rather than you going to the police. Let the company make decisions on this. It is the responsibility of the organization to protect its employees. You will lose credibility as HR among your employees if you go to the police yourself. Show your professional demeanor through your patience.
Kranthi Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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Maintain your attitude in a professional way. I would suggest that your management seek legal advice rather than you going to the police. Let the company make decisions on this. It is the responsibility of the organization to protect its employees. You will lose credibility as HR among your employees if you go to the police yourself. Show your professional demeanor through your patience.
Kranthi Kumar
From India, Bangalore
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Hi Pratap,
Kudos for your confidence and the courage shown in facing the situation. I don't think that this problem is yours. As rightly said by some of our friends, this is the problem of the management. They have to support you as they have to run the company for a longer time. You and I can change the company, but as the owners, they cannot close the company. I suggest that in the future, you have to have some recording system in your cabin or the place where you normally interact with unions (in a hidden way). This will support you when the situation arises.
Now is the time for the management to act. Failing which, they cannot run the organization. Legally, you are right and don't pay any additional amount, but be cautious. I don't expect he will resort to goondagardi because it will be the end of his personal life as well. You have to face many such incidents in your career. Industrial relations is a challenging job; be brave. Best of luck - Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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Kudos for your confidence and the courage shown in facing the situation. I don't think that this problem is yours. As rightly said by some of our friends, this is the problem of the management. They have to support you as they have to run the company for a longer time. You and I can change the company, but as the owners, they cannot close the company. I suggest that in the future, you have to have some recording system in your cabin or the place where you normally interact with unions (in a hidden way). This will support you when the situation arises.
Now is the time for the management to act. Failing which, they cannot run the organization. Legally, you are right and don't pay any additional amount, but be cautious. I don't expect he will resort to goondagardi because it will be the end of his personal life as well. You have to face many such incidents in your career. Industrial relations is a challenging job; be brave. Best of luck - Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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As a Hr profession this kind of matter is happen but we have to handle this matter as patince. GAMA KARALE
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Hello Pratap,
I would suggest first checking his appointment letter to see how much notice period you have stated for both parties to serve. If the appointment letter specifies that either party will serve a 15-day notice period for probationers, then both parties should adhere to this.
Whether it is for termination or if you need to pay for a shortfall in notice, you must serve a notice letter accordingly.
Regards,
Shikha Jain
From India, Bangalore
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I would suggest first checking his appointment letter to see how much notice period you have stated for both parties to serve. If the appointment letter specifies that either party will serve a 15-day notice period for probationers, then both parties should adhere to this.
Whether it is for termination or if you need to pay for a shortfall in notice, you must serve a notice letter accordingly.
Regards,
Shikha Jain
From India, Bangalore
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Thank you, Vittala Sudheer, for your encouragement.
Thank you, ksa 04, for the format.
Thank you, Badlu sir, for your very professional reply.
Thank you, Mahesh, for your VIMP tips, a good way to handle these situations.
Thank you, Kranthi Kumar. I think you are correct when you talk about going to the police by yourself. Let Management take legal advice.
Thank you, Kameswarao. I agree with you regarding Management's role in the situation. IR is a really challenging job; one must be brave.
Thank you, GAMA KARALE, for your encouragement.
Thank you, Shikha Jain. You are right about checking the appointment letter. I had made good preparation for this by studying the appointment letter, termination letter, and union agreement.
Latest development is as follows:
A terminated employee called me for the Experience letter and PF formalities, which are ready. In a fixed meeting, I will deliver him the Experience letter and PF withdrawal form.
His voice sounded guilty, and he felt surprised as we are giving him the Experience letter and PF withdrawal form as to other employees.
The union employees who have witnessed this feel hesitant when they see me. Some of his friends have told me that they will talk to him regarding this issue.
My employer is not open with me on this issue. He has instructed me to give him the Experience letter and PF withdrawal form and not let him come into the company again.
Non-union people are also awkward about the situation.
I can see on some employees' faces that I did the right thing.
As previously in this company, this type of behavior was rewarded by giving in to their demands.
My employer is giving me more responsibilities; he seems to be impressed with the way I handled the situation.
I have not filed an FIR till now; I might go for it after consulting my employer.
The history of this company is such that employees have abused, threatened, and shouted at the employer, and no solid action was taken against them.
When I talked to the very same people involved in the mentioned act, they told me that they believe that going this way of abusing, threatening, and shouting will give them what they want.
And overall the mentality of employees is the same.
The employer wants the situation changed; we have designed a disciplinary action procedure and are implementing it for the first time.
Issuing memos, show-cause notices for late coming, uninformed absenteeism, and for bad behavior.
Employees here are closely watching this process; some people say that this change won't last, some employees say that the employer has taken the right path.
Overall, employees have started respecting the employer's orders and have started noticing the changes that are taking place.
Hope to gradually take the company to a more healthy culture.
Thank you all once again.
I would like to mention a special thanks to a CiteHR gentleman who called me on the phone, encouraged me, shared his experience, and advised me. And asked me to call him in the case of advice.
I am very, very happy for the responses.
Thank you all.🌟
Regards,
Pratap M Kamble
From India, Pune
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Thank you, ksa 04, for the format.
Thank you, Badlu sir, for your very professional reply.
Thank you, Mahesh, for your VIMP tips, a good way to handle these situations.
Thank you, Kranthi Kumar. I think you are correct when you talk about going to the police by yourself. Let Management take legal advice.
Thank you, Kameswarao. I agree with you regarding Management's role in the situation. IR is a really challenging job; one must be brave.
Thank you, GAMA KARALE, for your encouragement.
Thank you, Shikha Jain. You are right about checking the appointment letter. I had made good preparation for this by studying the appointment letter, termination letter, and union agreement.
Latest development is as follows:
A terminated employee called me for the Experience letter and PF formalities, which are ready. In a fixed meeting, I will deliver him the Experience letter and PF withdrawal form.
His voice sounded guilty, and he felt surprised as we are giving him the Experience letter and PF withdrawal form as to other employees.
The union employees who have witnessed this feel hesitant when they see me. Some of his friends have told me that they will talk to him regarding this issue.
My employer is not open with me on this issue. He has instructed me to give him the Experience letter and PF withdrawal form and not let him come into the company again.
Non-union people are also awkward about the situation.
I can see on some employees' faces that I did the right thing.
As previously in this company, this type of behavior was rewarded by giving in to their demands.
My employer is giving me more responsibilities; he seems to be impressed with the way I handled the situation.
I have not filed an FIR till now; I might go for it after consulting my employer.
The history of this company is such that employees have abused, threatened, and shouted at the employer, and no solid action was taken against them.
When I talked to the very same people involved in the mentioned act, they told me that they believe that going this way of abusing, threatening, and shouting will give them what they want.
And overall the mentality of employees is the same.
The employer wants the situation changed; we have designed a disciplinary action procedure and are implementing it for the first time.
Issuing memos, show-cause notices for late coming, uninformed absenteeism, and for bad behavior.
Employees here are closely watching this process; some people say that this change won't last, some employees say that the employer has taken the right path.
Overall, employees have started respecting the employer's orders and have started noticing the changes that are taking place.
Hope to gradually take the company to a more healthy culture.
Thank you all once again.
I would like to mention a special thanks to a CiteHR gentleman who called me on the phone, encouraged me, shared his experience, and advised me. And asked me to call him in the case of advice.
I am very, very happy for the responses.
Thank you all.🌟
Regards,
Pratap M Kamble
From India, Pune
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Mr. Pratap, it is a very horrible situation faced by an HR. What may be the reasons for this situation? I would advise not to get personally involved. There must be some SOP in your organization to deal with this type of situation. As an HR, you must win the confidence of unions. If you can isolate him from union support, half of your problem is solved.
(Hanumanth Rao)
From India, Hyderabad
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(Hanumanth Rao)
From India, Hyderabad
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I am happy for you, Pratap, and I really thank all CiteHR members for sharing their ideas and suggestions. It's great to know you emerged confident out of the situation and let your company know that you can handle this. Keep going, Pratap, and let there be nothing stopping you!
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hi Pratap,
Few HR personnel face such types of problems, especially in the Industrial Sector. My advice to you would be that one should not panic. You should seek advice from your legal team rather than taking up the complaint directly with the police. Let the legal team handle such cases; after all, every organization ensures full protection of their employees.
Regards,
Pradeep
From India, Thana
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Few HR personnel face such types of problems, especially in the Industrial Sector. My advice to you would be that one should not panic. You should seek advice from your legal team rather than taking up the complaint directly with the police. Let the legal team handle such cases; after all, every organization ensures full protection of their employees.
Regards,
Pradeep
From India, Thana
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Hi Pratap,
Please register a complaint with the police and obtain a copy of the complaint.
Issue a memo with the employee's picture attached and circulate it to all departments, emphasizing to the Gate Security that he is not permitted anywhere near your premises.
Bigmem
From United States, Fremont
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Please register a complaint with the police and obtain a copy of the complaint.
Issue a memo with the employee's picture attached and circulate it to all departments, emphasizing to the Gate Security that he is not permitted anywhere near your premises.
Bigmem
From United States, Fremont
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Dear Pratap,
This situation is not exceptional and occurs every now and then in most organizations. Since you have complied with legal requirements before termination, there is no chance of legal action against the company. The union being with you is a positive sign. Treat this as an opportunity to learn, which will help you in handling mass agitations in the future.
There is no need to file any police complaint because that may amount to giving undue importance to a small matter. In any case, using abusive language is not a cognizable offense. Any sentimental workman will behave in a manner in which the terminated workman is behaving, so please give him an opportunity and time to come to terms with reality, which will happen in due course.
From India, Pune
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This situation is not exceptional and occurs every now and then in most organizations. Since you have complied with legal requirements before termination, there is no chance of legal action against the company. The union being with you is a positive sign. Treat this as an opportunity to learn, which will help you in handling mass agitations in the future.
There is no need to file any police complaint because that may amount to giving undue importance to a small matter. In any case, using abusive language is not a cognizable offense. Any sentimental workman will behave in a manner in which the terminated workman is behaving, so please give him an opportunity and time to come to terms with reality, which will happen in due course.
From India, Pune
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Hi, Mr. Pratap,
Based on my experience in HR, here is my advice: If you are diligent in performing your duties, you are less likely to encounter these types of problems. However, if you do face such issues, you can address and resolve them. In a standard company, you are expected to adhere to standard operating procedures. It is essential to make employees aware of company policies, as this can help mitigate such problems.
In HR, there are codes of conduct and rules that both management and labor must adhere to, which will be explained to you. It is crucial to be punctual and dedicated in your work. When interacting with employees, ensure that your actions are within professional boundaries and do not interfere with your job or responsibilities.
Best regards,
G. Pratap
HR Manager
From India, Bellary
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Based on my experience in HR, here is my advice: If you are diligent in performing your duties, you are less likely to encounter these types of problems. However, if you do face such issues, you can address and resolve them. In a standard company, you are expected to adhere to standard operating procedures. It is essential to make employees aware of company policies, as this can help mitigate such problems.
In HR, there are codes of conduct and rules that both management and labor must adhere to, which will be explained to you. It is crucial to be punctual and dedicated in your work. When interacting with employees, ensure that your actions are within professional boundaries and do not interfere with your job or responsibilities.
Best regards,
G. Pratap
HR Manager
From India, Bellary
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i am fully agree with Mr. Malik please donot worry about this type of situation . this is the part of our duity . regards, arun
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Kamble Sahib,
The best option is keep quiet and don't just pay any attention to whatever he says or asks. Just keep your management informed on what's happening and make sure you get their full support. U should be having a legal department / advisor and discuss the dispute with them. Such disputes are always transferred to staff dispute section, wherein the HR may not be directly dealing with. As someone said show empathy to him rather than being aggressive and lodging a police complaint, which might force him to look at you with a vengeance. Give him a good reference letter so that he could find a job elsewhere. It will solve by itself, Its a matter of time!!
Thanks
Sunil:icon1:
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The best option is keep quiet and don't just pay any attention to whatever he says or asks. Just keep your management informed on what's happening and make sure you get their full support. U should be having a legal department / advisor and discuss the dispute with them. Such disputes are always transferred to staff dispute section, wherein the HR may not be directly dealing with. As someone said show empathy to him rather than being aggressive and lodging a police complaint, which might force him to look at you with a vengeance. Give him a good reference letter so that he could find a job elsewhere. It will solve by itself, Its a matter of time!!
Thanks
Sunil:icon1:
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Dear Pratap,
I have gone through your problem. You informed that you have only 3 months of service with the present company. Generally, in every organization, there are some unions that have political affiliations. In your case, you did not mention on what grounds you terminated the services of this probationer. You are only stating that he used to abuse company authorities and management, and you terminated him by paying one month's salary. If he is a member of the union, why did you not discuss this issue with the union leaders before terminating his services? Was he given any warning for his alleged threats or abusive behavior towards management? Did you have any counseling sessions with him regarding his behavior? Merely having a clause in the appointment letter does not justify terminating the services of a probationer, especially when serious allegations have been made against him. The probationer's services can be terminated due to poor performance either during or after the probation period. Even at the end of the fixed probation period, an employer has the right to terminate his services without paying one month's salary or giving one month's notice if the terms of employment stipulate such conditions in the appointment letter.
As HR professionals, we need to think carefully and anticipate the consequences. In your case, I do not oppose your action. However, if the probationer is alleged to have committed serious misconduct as you stated, proper procedures such as issuing a charge sheet and conducting an inquiry should be followed, similar to the process for regular employees, as it can tarnish the employee's reputation and must adhere to the principles of natural justice.
It is essential to remember that sometimes management does not support the actions of the HR manager. If this issue escalates, and all union members sympathize with the dismissed employee and threaten to strike, your management may end up paying him one month's additional salary to avoid strikes or labor unrest, even if you advise against it. In such a scenario, how would this impact your credibility?
I believe you should take the initiative to discuss with the union leaders, explaining the circumstances that led to the dismissal of the employee due to his behavior. Convince them of your justifications for the dismissal. In the given circumstances, it is advisable to recommend to management to pay one month's additional salary.
If the employee decides to challenge his dismissal in a labor/civil court due to procedural errors in the dismissal process and lack of opportunity to defend himself, there is a chance he may win the case with full back wages and potential reinstatement. As an HR manager, it is best to avoid unnecessary litigation.
Regards,
NVRao
Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
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I have gone through your problem. You informed that you have only 3 months of service with the present company. Generally, in every organization, there are some unions that have political affiliations. In your case, you did not mention on what grounds you terminated the services of this probationer. You are only stating that he used to abuse company authorities and management, and you terminated him by paying one month's salary. If he is a member of the union, why did you not discuss this issue with the union leaders before terminating his services? Was he given any warning for his alleged threats or abusive behavior towards management? Did you have any counseling sessions with him regarding his behavior? Merely having a clause in the appointment letter does not justify terminating the services of a probationer, especially when serious allegations have been made against him. The probationer's services can be terminated due to poor performance either during or after the probation period. Even at the end of the fixed probation period, an employer has the right to terminate his services without paying one month's salary or giving one month's notice if the terms of employment stipulate such conditions in the appointment letter.
As HR professionals, we need to think carefully and anticipate the consequences. In your case, I do not oppose your action. However, if the probationer is alleged to have committed serious misconduct as you stated, proper procedures such as issuing a charge sheet and conducting an inquiry should be followed, similar to the process for regular employees, as it can tarnish the employee's reputation and must adhere to the principles of natural justice.
It is essential to remember that sometimes management does not support the actions of the HR manager. If this issue escalates, and all union members sympathize with the dismissed employee and threaten to strike, your management may end up paying him one month's additional salary to avoid strikes or labor unrest, even if you advise against it. In such a scenario, how would this impact your credibility?
I believe you should take the initiative to discuss with the union leaders, explaining the circumstances that led to the dismissal of the employee due to his behavior. Convince them of your justifications for the dismissal. In the given circumstances, it is advisable to recommend to management to pay one month's additional salary.
If the employee decides to challenge his dismissal in a labor/civil court due to procedural errors in the dismissal process and lack of opportunity to defend himself, there is a chance he may win the case with full back wages and potential reinstatement. As an HR manager, it is best to avoid unnecessary litigation.
Regards,
NVRao
Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Mr. Pradeep,
This is Lakshman. I have seen a similar case (I did not deal with it directly). My superiors dealt with it very professionally. I hope the same method would help you too. Firstly, even before approaching the police, make a document that clearly shows why the candidate is terminated. This should include the feedback of the immediate superiors of the terminated employee. This would add some support to you when you file a case or want to control the candidate. Tell him clearly that you have some restrictions in your duty too and you will have to follow. I mean mold the same in such a way that he will calm down.
Anyways, I wish you all the best for your profession. I wish your career gives you lots and lots of new experiences and you take these challenges strategically.
Lakshman Kumar Grandhi
From India, Hyderabad
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This is Lakshman. I have seen a similar case (I did not deal with it directly). My superiors dealt with it very professionally. I hope the same method would help you too. Firstly, even before approaching the police, make a document that clearly shows why the candidate is terminated. This should include the feedback of the immediate superiors of the terminated employee. This would add some support to you when you file a case or want to control the candidate. Tell him clearly that you have some restrictions in your duty too and you will have to follow. I mean mold the same in such a way that he will calm down.
Anyways, I wish you all the best for your profession. I wish your career gives you lots and lots of new experiences and you take these challenges strategically.
Lakshman Kumar Grandhi
From India, Hyderabad
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CONFLICT MANAGEMENT.ppt