Hi, I'm working in a company that provides financial services. We have a sales team where the relationship managers (RMs) have to meet with clients for general discussions or meetings to provide financial advice. On such occasions, clients often offer drinks, and the RMs can't refuse them as they aim to build a good rapport with the clients. Therefore, we have decided to implement a policy that addresses the limitation of alcohol consumption.
Suggestions for Alcohol Consumption Limitations
Please provide your suggestions on what limitations could be set on alcohol consumption, similar to the restrictions we have for driving. Additionally, if you have any sample policies on this topic, please share them.
Thanks in advance.
From India, Bangalore
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Suggestions for Alcohol Consumption Limitations
Please provide your suggestions on what limitations could be set on alcohol consumption, similar to the restrictions we have for driving. Additionally, if you have any sample policies on this topic, please share them.
Thanks in advance.
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Aparna,
Great! Your RMs are lucky to be tipped by their clients! There is a lot to envy about their job!
Ok. Humor apart, your company appears to have been confused between "business call" and "general discussion." What brings you more business, the former or the latter? First, decide on that count. Why do RMs visit their clients? Possibly to provide financial advice? Let the discussion revolve around financial investment and let your RMs leave the place.
Your RMs need to handle this matter professionally. If some client insists on taking drinks, they can be told politely "No." Please note that liquor is such a liquid that makes one spill the beans! In Hindi, it can be said that "Dil ki baat hote pe aati hai." Today it is just a peg or two of wine, but these high and mighty people may go further also. Can you control this through HR Policies?
The psychology of the rich is very different. Imagine for a while some RM is lured to become an agent and told to bring vital information from a business rival. If the project succeeds, the RM could be showered with some investment. The company will also become happy, but you could be setting a dangerous precedent!
There is no need to make a policy as such on the consumption of liquor. Since the RM's role is advisory, its sanctity must be cherished. Nevertheless, in the rarest of rare cases, they may consume a tot or two, but such consumption must be reported on the same day or the next day.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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8071Great! Your RMs are lucky to be tipped by their clients! There is a lot to envy about their job!
Ok. Humor apart, your company appears to have been confused between "business call" and "general discussion." What brings you more business, the former or the latter? First, decide on that count. Why do RMs visit their clients? Possibly to provide financial advice? Let the discussion revolve around financial investment and let your RMs leave the place.
Your RMs need to handle this matter professionally. If some client insists on taking drinks, they can be told politely "No." Please note that liquor is such a liquid that makes one spill the beans! In Hindi, it can be said that "Dil ki baat hote pe aati hai." Today it is just a peg or two of wine, but these high and mighty people may go further also. Can you control this through HR Policies?
The psychology of the rich is very different. Imagine for a while some RM is lured to become an agent and told to bring vital information from a business rival. If the project succeeds, the RM could be showered with some investment. The company will also become happy, but you could be setting a dangerous precedent!
There is no need to make a policy as such on the consumption of liquor. Since the RM's role is advisory, its sanctity must be cherished. Nevertheless, in the rarest of rare cases, they may consume a tot or two, but such consumption must be reported on the same day or the next day.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Friend,
This is happening everywhere regarding business approval with clients and corporate companies. However, we need to implement restrictions on alcohol consumption during interactions with clients to ensure their well-being and prevent any negative impact on the company's growth.
Regards,
Parameswari
Chennai.
Hi, I'm working in a company that provides financial services, so our sales team, where the Relationship Managers (RMs) meet clients for discussions or meetings to offer financial advice. During such interactions, clients often offer drinks, and the RMs find it challenging to refuse as they aim to build a good rapport. Therefore, we are considering implementing a policy to limit alcohol consumption. I would appreciate your suggestions on setting these limitations, similar to those in place for driving. Additionally, if you have any sample policies on this matter, please share them.
Thanks in advance.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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This is happening everywhere regarding business approval with clients and corporate companies. However, we need to implement restrictions on alcohol consumption during interactions with clients to ensure their well-being and prevent any negative impact on the company's growth.
Regards,
Parameswari
Chennai.
Hi, I'm working in a company that provides financial services, so our sales team, where the Relationship Managers (RMs) meet clients for discussions or meetings to offer financial advice. During such interactions, clients often offer drinks, and the RMs find it challenging to refuse as they aim to build a good rapport. Therefore, we are considering implementing a policy to limit alcohol consumption. I would appreciate your suggestions on setting these limitations, similar to those in place for driving. Additionally, if you have any sample policies on this matter, please share them.
Thanks in advance.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Policy on Alcohol Consumption for RMs
My opinion is firm in this regard, and I would create a 'no liquor on duty' policy and apply it loosely. The RMs can decide if they want to indulge or opt out. If they want to opt out, they can cite this policy. If they want to be polite, they can stick to only 1 or 2 drinks, or whatever the case may be.
Enforcing this policy means that the RMs can't claim reimbursement for the liquor or alcoholic beverage. Also, don't call them Relationship Managers. Maybe consider titles like Portfolio Managers or Advisers, or something more appropriate.
Hope this helps.
From India, Mumbai
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My opinion is firm in this regard, and I would create a 'no liquor on duty' policy and apply it loosely. The RMs can decide if they want to indulge or opt out. If they want to opt out, they can cite this policy. If they want to be polite, they can stick to only 1 or 2 drinks, or whatever the case may be.
Enforcing this policy means that the RMs can't claim reimbursement for the liquor or alcoholic beverage. Also, don't call them Relationship Managers. Maybe consider titles like Portfolio Managers or Advisers, or something more appropriate.
Hope this helps.
From India, Mumbai
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I don't see what is wrong with refusing liquor at a client's place? Remember that RMs are on official duty and not visiting the client's office for chatting or gossiping. They can very politely refuse, and surely no client in the right state of mind shall feel offended. I liked Mr. Divekar's reply to this post, and he has highlighted a very important point. It's generally a universal policy not to consume alcohol while on duty.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Establishing a Code of Conduct for Alcohol Consumption
Certain rules and a code of conduct need to be spelled out in every organization. Treating people as adults does not mean that the organization can leave everything to the maturity of employees. This financial services organization should clearly spell out no drinking with clients if meeting for an official discussion. Everyone has a different capacity to hold drinks. The organization cannot be expected to rely on any official's capacity to hold drinks and should frame a general rule for such interactions. If a client calls for a purely social interaction, then, of course, we can leave it to the maturity of officials to behave consistently with the organization's culture.
From India, Pune
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Certain rules and a code of conduct need to be spelled out in every organization. Treating people as adults does not mean that the organization can leave everything to the maturity of employees. This financial services organization should clearly spell out no drinking with clients if meeting for an official discussion. Everyone has a different capacity to hold drinks. The organization cannot be expected to rely on any official's capacity to hold drinks and should frame a general rule for such interactions. If a client calls for a purely social interaction, then, of course, we can leave it to the maturity of officials to behave consistently with the organization's culture.
From India, Pune
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply is correct in emphasizing the need for clear rules on alcohol consumption during official client meetings to maintain professionalism and avoid risks. Encouraging a structured approach aligns with best practices in organizational conduct. (1 Acknowledge point)
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Dear Mr. CV Manian, Your post implies that whether to take drinks or not should be left to the discretion of the RM. Nevertheless, organizations cannot run on an individual's discretion. The objective of laying down rules and regulations is to bring uniformity in behavior among all the staff members. There is every possibility of a difference in the interpretation of phrases like "discretion" or "maturity." What if, under the garb of "maturity," RMs start fulfilling their boozing instincts?
I have seen MNCs wherein employees are not allowed to accept any gifts. Going further, these MNCs do not allow employees to accept even New Year diaries from the suppliers or customers. However, the poster of this post, i.e., Aparna, has asked about liquor. This is a far more personalized offer. Let us not forget the difference between "tea" and "wine." The former is a part and parcel of an Indian's daily life but not the latter.
The actual problem is not about the acceptance of the offer of liquor. The actual problem lies in not having a business-like approach by the RMs. Offering advice on managing funds is a highly cerebral activity. This would require understanding the risk appetite of the customer and matching it with the right product.
If the quality of advice is of a superior level, then there is no need to satisfy the client by accepting a peg or two. There is a difference between "customer delight" and "customer appeasement." A customer can be delighted even if the service provided is within the parameters of service. To delight a customer, employees need to go the extra mile. Nevertheless, that extra mile should not lead to regalement. Otherwise, that extra mile could bring extra problems in its wake. Let us not forget about it.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
I do not understand this. Treat your RM as a responsible person who can make his/her own decision. If a client discussion is followed by lunch including a couple of drinks, so be it. Act as grown-up individuals and let the RM decide what needs to be done, rather than being instructed by the HR/HQ. Anyone responsible enough will not get sozzled by a few drinks. Where to put a stop is what the RM should know from his drinking habits. Let's treat people as mature adults.
From India, Bangalore
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I have seen MNCs wherein employees are not allowed to accept any gifts. Going further, these MNCs do not allow employees to accept even New Year diaries from the suppliers or customers. However, the poster of this post, i.e., Aparna, has asked about liquor. This is a far more personalized offer. Let us not forget the difference between "tea" and "wine." The former is a part and parcel of an Indian's daily life but not the latter.
The actual problem is not about the acceptance of the offer of liquor. The actual problem lies in not having a business-like approach by the RMs. Offering advice on managing funds is a highly cerebral activity. This would require understanding the risk appetite of the customer and matching it with the right product.
If the quality of advice is of a superior level, then there is no need to satisfy the client by accepting a peg or two. There is a difference between "customer delight" and "customer appeasement." A customer can be delighted even if the service provided is within the parameters of service. To delight a customer, employees need to go the extra mile. Nevertheless, that extra mile should not lead to regalement. Otherwise, that extra mile could bring extra problems in its wake. Let us not forget about it.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
I do not understand this. Treat your RM as a responsible person who can make his/her own decision. If a client discussion is followed by lunch including a couple of drinks, so be it. Act as grown-up individuals and let the RM decide what needs to be done, rather than being instructed by the HR/HQ. Anyone responsible enough will not get sozzled by a few drinks. Where to put a stop is what the RM should know from his drinking habits. Let's treat people as mature adults.
From India, Bangalore
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We have seen comments from both sides. I would like to give my support to the "ban drinks" group.
The Misconception of Drinking for Rapport
The first point was about the fact that the RM can't refuse to drink because they have to develop a rapport with the customer. Well, this is definitely a wrong idea that someone has put in because he likes free drinks. He may even be asking for the drinks.
Cultural Context: Indian Business Scenario
You are talking about an Indian business scenario. In a business meeting in India, drinks are not on the table. Even if you meet someone at home, they don't offer drinks; they offer tea. If you come in the evening when the client normally has a drink, they will offer you one out of courtesy but will not be offended if you refuse.
Grounds for Refusal
There are many grounds for refusal. One is to say that our new HR rule is that we are not allowed to drink while on duty, so please excuse me. Another is to take the excuse of having to drive/ride and the law does not permit it. The fact that one has to take public transport where even the smallest infraction takes a massive leap in perception of others if you smell of alcohol (say he stumbled and fell on a lady, if he smells of alcohol, the public will beat him up, or the cops around will simply jail him as a drunk predator).
If you want to soften the blow, he can say, "I would appreciate a coke or a soda if it's not too much trouble."
The Role of Relationship Managers
What exactly are your RMs trying to do? They are supposed to sell mainly on professional skills and the company's ability. Some of them may get friendly and become close to the client and family. But those are exceptions, not the rule.
Next, you will find bills of RMs asking for reimbursement of "escort costs" because that helps him develop rapport with the client?
(Yeah, I know that's extreme, but where does building a rapport end and non-professional behavior begin?)
From India, Mumbai
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The Misconception of Drinking for Rapport
The first point was about the fact that the RM can't refuse to drink because they have to develop a rapport with the customer. Well, this is definitely a wrong idea that someone has put in because he likes free drinks. He may even be asking for the drinks.
Cultural Context: Indian Business Scenario
You are talking about an Indian business scenario. In a business meeting in India, drinks are not on the table. Even if you meet someone at home, they don't offer drinks; they offer tea. If you come in the evening when the client normally has a drink, they will offer you one out of courtesy but will not be offended if you refuse.
Grounds for Refusal
There are many grounds for refusal. One is to say that our new HR rule is that we are not allowed to drink while on duty, so please excuse me. Another is to take the excuse of having to drive/ride and the law does not permit it. The fact that one has to take public transport where even the smallest infraction takes a massive leap in perception of others if you smell of alcohol (say he stumbled and fell on a lady, if he smells of alcohol, the public will beat him up, or the cops around will simply jail him as a drunk predator).
If you want to soften the blow, he can say, "I would appreciate a coke or a soda if it's not too much trouble."
The Role of Relationship Managers
What exactly are your RMs trying to do? They are supposed to sell mainly on professional skills and the company's ability. Some of them may get friendly and become close to the client and family. But those are exceptions, not the rule.
Next, you will find bills of RMs asking for reimbursement of "escort costs" because that helps him develop rapport with the client?
(Yeah, I know that's extreme, but where does building a rapport end and non-professional behavior begin?)
From India, Mumbai
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Wow, your RMs seem to be really smart... They are trying to have their cake and eat it too...
Asking for 'HR approval' for allowing 'customer-paid liquor' during a business meeting is a nice move...
Policy Implications
So, tell us what your policy would achieve:
1. If someone does not consume alcohol, won't this policy discriminate against them by implying they are not able to follow 'guidelines' to build rapport with customers?
2. If someone gets arrested for drunk driving, would they cite HR policy and claim the company asks them to do so?
3. If an RM misbehaves at a customer’s premises or a public place under the influence of alcohol, could they cite HR policy and say the company asks them to do so?
There are already many ways employees in such sales positions twist the rules (e.g., claiming false receipts for liquor under restaurant food bills, etc.). Why do you want to give them a "free hit" to do it officially?
Tomorrow, they might say, "There was only one committee member opposing our deal; so to get the business, I had to bribe/kill him." Make a policy for that...
If RMs want to go the extra mile with the customer, then they should do it at their cost and on their time. Business hours and budgets should be strict to business. Officially, you would surely want to earn business with your products, not with booze.
My suggestion is, do not get lured into the false premise built by RMs that alcohol is mandatory for cracking the deals...
Regards,
Amod.
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Asking for 'HR approval' for allowing 'customer-paid liquor' during a business meeting is a nice move...
Policy Implications
So, tell us what your policy would achieve:
1. If someone does not consume alcohol, won't this policy discriminate against them by implying they are not able to follow 'guidelines' to build rapport with customers?
2. If someone gets arrested for drunk driving, would they cite HR policy and claim the company asks them to do so?
3. If an RM misbehaves at a customer’s premises or a public place under the influence of alcohol, could they cite HR policy and say the company asks them to do so?
There are already many ways employees in such sales positions twist the rules (e.g., claiming false receipts for liquor under restaurant food bills, etc.). Why do you want to give them a "free hit" to do it officially?
Tomorrow, they might say, "There was only one committee member opposing our deal; so to get the business, I had to bribe/kill him." Make a policy for that...
If RMs want to go the extra mile with the customer, then they should do it at their cost and on their time. Business hours and budgets should be strict to business. Officially, you would surely want to earn business with your products, not with booze.
My suggestion is, do not get lured into the false premise built by RMs that alcohol is mandatory for cracking the deals...
Regards,
Amod.
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(Fact Checked)-The user's reply contains several valid points regarding the potential issues that could arise from allowing alcohol consumption during business meetings. It correctly highlights concerns related to discrimination, liability in case of drunk driving incidents, and misconduct under the influence of alcohol. The user also emphasizes the importance of maintaining professionalism and ethical standards in business interactions. However, the user's reply could benefit from a more constructive tone and focus on providing solutions or recommendations to address these concerns. Overall, the user's reply is insightful but could be more constructive in offering suggestions to mitigate the identified risks and maintain a professional work environment. (1 Acknowledge point)
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Alcohol Consumption in the Workplace
Serving drinks in many offices is not common practice in India, except for a few instances such as parties to mark special occasions, get-togethers, or the end of seminars. These occasions may not necessarily occur during working hours. Some offices also organize banquets with a limited amount of alcohol, which should not be considered as "no drinks."
Challenges in Assessing Alcohol Consumption
Regarding the issue, it may be challenging for an employer to assess the level of alcohol consumption and whether it occurred due to a client's influence or en route from a bar or store. Even if this is determined, establishing a policy on how to address it poses difficulties. Should the RM be penalized for excessive intake? As long as drinking remains infrequent during office hours, it should not negatively impact the professional environment. Enforcing moral conduct in such situations can be complex and should not lead to clients complaining about RMs visiting solely for drinks.
Conclusion: Alcohol Consumption Policy
In conclusion, consuming alcohol during office hours should not be permitted for various reasons, including maintaining decorum. It's advisable not to discuss reimbursing alcohol expenses. Socially, discouraging drinking from an early stage can help shape the character of future generations, preventing the normalization of frequent drinking, which has become prevalent due to the IT boom. Additionally, the issue of drink driving, whether sponsored by clients or done independently, needs consideration.
From India, Bangalore
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Serving drinks in many offices is not common practice in India, except for a few instances such as parties to mark special occasions, get-togethers, or the end of seminars. These occasions may not necessarily occur during working hours. Some offices also organize banquets with a limited amount of alcohol, which should not be considered as "no drinks."
Challenges in Assessing Alcohol Consumption
Regarding the issue, it may be challenging for an employer to assess the level of alcohol consumption and whether it occurred due to a client's influence or en route from a bar or store. Even if this is determined, establishing a policy on how to address it poses difficulties. Should the RM be penalized for excessive intake? As long as drinking remains infrequent during office hours, it should not negatively impact the professional environment. Enforcing moral conduct in such situations can be complex and should not lead to clients complaining about RMs visiting solely for drinks.
Conclusion: Alcohol Consumption Policy
In conclusion, consuming alcohol during office hours should not be permitted for various reasons, including maintaining decorum. It's advisable not to discuss reimbursing alcohol expenses. Socially, discouraging drinking from an early stage can help shape the character of future generations, preventing the normalization of frequent drinking, which has become prevalent due to the IT boom. Additionally, the issue of drink driving, whether sponsored by clients or done independently, needs consideration.
From India, Bangalore
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Cultural Considerations and Compliance for Alcohol Consumption
Allowing Relationship Managers (RMs) to have drinks with clients is against Indian culture. If it is kept on record as an HR policy, the company has to offer employment to candidates who are habitual drinkers. As a statutory compliance requirement, you have to check if they have the necessary permit from the concerned department to consume alcohol, or you have to arrange it.
If drinks are allowed while on duty and unfortunately, any accidents occur or employees develop any diseases due to drinking with clients, you have to compensate such employees for the record due to the contradiction between the company's policy and the insurance company's rules.
Regards,
Shirish Kulkarni
From India, Pune
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Allowing Relationship Managers (RMs) to have drinks with clients is against Indian culture. If it is kept on record as an HR policy, the company has to offer employment to candidates who are habitual drinkers. As a statutory compliance requirement, you have to check if they have the necessary permit from the concerned department to consume alcohol, or you have to arrange it.
If drinks are allowed while on duty and unfortunately, any accidents occur or employees develop any diseases due to drinking with clients, you have to compensate such employees for the record due to the contradiction between the company's policy and the insurance company's rules.
Regards,
Shirish Kulkarni
From India, Pune
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(Fact Checked)-The user's reply is correct. It is within the rights of Relationship Managers (RMs) to politely refuse alcohol during client meetings while on official duty. (1 Acknowledge point)