Dear Seniors, Following are a few questions of mine. I request you to please give a revert.
Legal Action Against Companies Not Submitting ESI and PF
1. I would like to know what legal action can be taken against companies that do not submit ESI and PF of employees.
Registering an FIR for Financial Misconduct
2. Can we register an FIR at the Police Station when they steal money from the common man?
Employee Rights vs. Company Interests
3. Many Senior Managers work in Human Resources, but why do most managers fight only for the company and not for employee rights and benefits?
Regards
From India, Chandigarh
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6Legal Action Against Companies Not Submitting ESI and PF
1. I would like to know what legal action can be taken against companies that do not submit ESI and PF of employees.
Registering an FIR for Financial Misconduct
2. Can we register an FIR at the Police Station when they steal money from the common man?
Employee Rights vs. Company Interests
3. Many Senior Managers work in Human Resources, but why do most managers fight only for the company and not for employee rights and benefits?
Regards
From India, Chandigarh
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I would say:
1. If you want to complain about such companies, you can contact the regional or city office of the concerned department.
2. You cannot register an FIR for such cases in this way unless you have proof.
3. HR managers are also employees responsible for managing human resources and working according to the employers' guidelines.
From India, Lucknow
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1. If you want to complain about such companies, you can contact the regional or city office of the concerned department.
2. You cannot register an FIR for such cases in this way unless you have proof.
3. HR managers are also employees responsible for managing human resources and working according to the employers' guidelines.
From India, Lucknow
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Dear Kashyap,
If what you are stating is true, then these are serious problems. If the company is not submitting PF and ESIC contributions, then this problem would not be limited to you; your colleagues would also be facing this issue. I would suggest the following:
1. Gather evidence that PF and ESIC contributions are being deducted by your company but not being submitted to the respective authorities.
2. Get your colleagues to support you and lodge complaints at your local ESIC and PF Commissioner offices. Also, contact your local labor commissioner's office.
I'm not very clear about your second question. What do you mean by "steal money"? If you are referring to PF and ESIC contributions only, then follow my above advice. If there are instances of excess/illegal deductions from salary, then contact the labor commissioner's office. If there are instances where they have actually stolen money from you, then you can go to the police.
HR Professionals and Their Role
Regarding your third question, HR professionals are also employees of the company. They receive a salary from the company to carry out the company's work. At most, an HR professional can inform the management that they are following wrong employment practices. If the management chooses to ignore this advice, the HR professional can't do anything. If the HR professional raises his voice against the management, they may remove him from his job. There is no legal/governmental protection for the HR professional to force his employer to follow labor laws. So, don't blame the HR professional for following the management's decisions.
And remember, you don't need to depend on your HR department to uphold your rights/benefits as an employee. The government has formulated labor laws to protect and benefit employees. You can contact the labor commissioner if the company is not following labor laws.
Regards,
Ritesh Shah
From India, Pune
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If what you are stating is true, then these are serious problems. If the company is not submitting PF and ESIC contributions, then this problem would not be limited to you; your colleagues would also be facing this issue. I would suggest the following:
1. Gather evidence that PF and ESIC contributions are being deducted by your company but not being submitted to the respective authorities.
2. Get your colleagues to support you and lodge complaints at your local ESIC and PF Commissioner offices. Also, contact your local labor commissioner's office.
I'm not very clear about your second question. What do you mean by "steal money"? If you are referring to PF and ESIC contributions only, then follow my above advice. If there are instances of excess/illegal deductions from salary, then contact the labor commissioner's office. If there are instances where they have actually stolen money from you, then you can go to the police.
HR Professionals and Their Role
Regarding your third question, HR professionals are also employees of the company. They receive a salary from the company to carry out the company's work. At most, an HR professional can inform the management that they are following wrong employment practices. If the management chooses to ignore this advice, the HR professional can't do anything. If the HR professional raises his voice against the management, they may remove him from his job. There is no legal/governmental protection for the HR professional to force his employer to follow labor laws. So, don't blame the HR professional for following the management's decisions.
And remember, you don't need to depend on your HR department to uphold your rights/benefits as an employee. The government has formulated labor laws to protect and benefit employees. You can contact the labor commissioner if the company is not following labor laws.
Regards,
Ritesh Shah
From India, Pune
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Dear Friends,
I would like to tell you that these questions are not related to me or to my company, but a few of my close ones are suffering from this, and they are depressed and fed up with their life.
Issues Faced by Contractual Employees
One of my friends is working in an MNC company on a contractual basis for the last 6 years. He is around 30 years old, but still, his salary remains approximately the same, around 9 to 10 thousand. I just asked him after many years how life is going and when he is going to marry. He said, "meri salary 10000 hai kya shadi karoon."
Another friend said, "My past company is not giving me a PF number, and I came to know that they have not submitted the PF."
Concerns with Outsourced Employment Policies
We all know there are many big companies, MNCs, and branded companies that hire employees on an outsourced basis. However, these companies and senior managers who are responsible for making policies just use employees like objects, and nobody bothers about them. When the time comes for their appraisal, the contractor changes the company name.
Most of the contractors do not submit ESIC and PF.
Questioning the Role of Senior Managers
My issue in raising these questions is only that why do senior managers make such policies that harass a middle-class man, and why do we only think about those who are earning in lakhs and crores.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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I would like to tell you that these questions are not related to me or to my company, but a few of my close ones are suffering from this, and they are depressed and fed up with their life.
Issues Faced by Contractual Employees
One of my friends is working in an MNC company on a contractual basis for the last 6 years. He is around 30 years old, but still, his salary remains approximately the same, around 9 to 10 thousand. I just asked him after many years how life is going and when he is going to marry. He said, "meri salary 10000 hai kya shadi karoon."
Another friend said, "My past company is not giving me a PF number, and I came to know that they have not submitted the PF."
Concerns with Outsourced Employment Policies
We all know there are many big companies, MNCs, and branded companies that hire employees on an outsourced basis. However, these companies and senior managers who are responsible for making policies just use employees like objects, and nobody bothers about them. When the time comes for their appraisal, the contractor changes the company name.
Most of the contractors do not submit ESIC and PF.
Questioning the Role of Senior Managers
My issue in raising these questions is only that why do senior managers make such policies that harass a middle-class man, and why do we only think about those who are earning in lakhs and crores.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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I agree with most of the points you have made, but there are many instances where such laws and policies exist only in name. People often prioritize immediate financial gains through any means possible without considering the long-term consequences.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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As the issues fall under the Social Security Act, the rules and regulations are very stringent. An employer has to pay regardless. If not paid, the Department can take strong action against the employer. No need to worry, simply discuss with all the victims, gather all the relevant written documents related to your issue, and file a written complaint with the Regional P.F. Office. They will then take the necessary actions that should be taken.
Regards
From India
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Regards
From India
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Dear Teamgroup HR,
Whatever points you have mentioned above, I agree with you partially. In my point of view, yes, you are right; we have to wake up and fight against harassment. But as said by Mr. Ritesh Shah, his point that voicing against management will lead to termination from the job of HR, and I agree with him. In that case, what will an individual employee do? Nowadays, we cannot see any union or leader who will fight for employees and understand their grievances. HR alone will not be able to change the entire system, though they are aware of it.
Question on Harassment Complaints
My question is, does the person who suffers and has experienced harassment only complain to the authorized person? If yes, what about others, and what about his job security?
Authority to Enforce Compliance
Is there any competent authority or officer who will conduct raids on companies that do not follow the rules as per the Act? And who will impose a huge fine for such mistakes so that neither HR has to fear losing his/her job nor a single employee? This way, every employee will be saved from such harassment. If such committees or authorities exist, kindly let us know about them.
Proposal for Establishing Committees
Yes, even I know that there is no such committee or authority, but being in HR, we should at least try to establish or recommend to the government the same. Is it possible? I want your views.
Regards
From India, Pune
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Whatever points you have mentioned above, I agree with you partially. In my point of view, yes, you are right; we have to wake up and fight against harassment. But as said by Mr. Ritesh Shah, his point that voicing against management will lead to termination from the job of HR, and I agree with him. In that case, what will an individual employee do? Nowadays, we cannot see any union or leader who will fight for employees and understand their grievances. HR alone will not be able to change the entire system, though they are aware of it.
Question on Harassment Complaints
My question is, does the person who suffers and has experienced harassment only complain to the authorized person? If yes, what about others, and what about his job security?
Authority to Enforce Compliance
Is there any competent authority or officer who will conduct raids on companies that do not follow the rules as per the Act? And who will impose a huge fine for such mistakes so that neither HR has to fear losing his/her job nor a single employee? This way, every employee will be saved from such harassment. If such committees or authorities exist, kindly let us know about them.
Proposal for Establishing Committees
Yes, even I know that there is no such committee or authority, but being in HR, we should at least try to establish or recommend to the government the same. Is it possible? I want your views.
Regards
From India, Pune
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Kashyap has really opened up a very good subject of non-payment of ESI and PF to authorities. This is a straightforward case of robbery. When caught, a few bucks can be thrown as a penalty, and the utilized money for many months/years can be deposited into the government treasury.
I would like to add a question here: If any company deducts one or two days' wages from an employee's salary in the case of a natural calamity like floods or earthquakes, and does not hand over these monies to the government treasury, is there any penalty?
From India, Mumbai
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I would like to add a question here: If any company deducts one or two days' wages from an employee's salary in the case of a natural calamity like floods or earthquakes, and does not hand over these monies to the government treasury, is there any penalty?
From India, Mumbai
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I think you have not read the thread properly. Here, it is not a question of any rights, but we are talking about the partiality between employees and employers.
Example of Partiality
I want to give an example: When a normal man is caught snatching money or a bag or purse, we do not ask him why he did that. Instead, we immediately give him a big slap, and then we hand him over to the police, who may further harass him, even if it is just a small amount like Rs 100.
On the other side, when employers embezzle money from PF and ESI funds in lakhs from common people, the common man can only go to the Labor Court, where they do not have much time to pursue legal action.
Role of Labor Law Experts
I would also like to share one thing: there are many labor law experts who could be consulting both the employee, who is a victim, and the employer, who is seeking profits by any means.
I simply want to emphasize that our lawmakers, law enforcers, and legal system must have only one aim: to fight in the right direction and in an honest way, similar to how a doctor's aim is to save their patient.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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Example of Partiality
I want to give an example: When a normal man is caught snatching money or a bag or purse, we do not ask him why he did that. Instead, we immediately give him a big slap, and then we hand him over to the police, who may further harass him, even if it is just a small amount like Rs 100.
On the other side, when employers embezzle money from PF and ESI funds in lakhs from common people, the common man can only go to the Labor Court, where they do not have much time to pursue legal action.
Role of Labor Law Experts
I would also like to share one thing: there are many labor law experts who could be consulting both the employee, who is a victim, and the employer, who is seeking profits by any means.
I simply want to emphasize that our lawmakers, law enforcers, and legal system must have only one aim: to fight in the right direction and in an honest way, similar to how a doctor's aim is to save their patient.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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You can ask your friend to contact the local EPFO (Employee Provident Fund Organization) office with his salary slips that show deductions towards the provident fund and file a complaint against his employer. The department will take care of the rest. It is illegal for any company to engage in such acts as mentioned by you. In the meantime, you should also advise your friend to look for another job. If he is not satisfied with his current job, the market is always open with vacancies in different companies and sectors.
Management's Role in Employee Rights
With reference to the last part of your question, "Many Senior Managers work in Human Resources, but why do most managers fight only for the company and not for employee rights and benefits?"
The management reacts to any situation depending on the case-to-case scenario. We can't deny the fact that no matter how senior the manager is, he/she is also an employee of the company, more answerable to management than employees, and will manage affairs in the company's interest. Depending on the situation, managers may change their course of action as per employee demands, requests, and suitability, but they have to think from different points of view (employer's and employee's) and consider the overall impact on the system before implementing any decision. A senior HR person in any company acts as a link between senior management and operational teams. His success depends on how he manages to improve employee satisfaction within his company without negatively impacting his employer. However, if there is an incorrect policy or practice in the company, it becomes his responsibility to rectify things and justify his actions with strong reasons.
At the end of the day, it's a "REASON" that can justify the actions taken by management or an employee to survive and progress professionally.
Regards.
From India, Gurgaon
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Management's Role in Employee Rights
With reference to the last part of your question, "Many Senior Managers work in Human Resources, but why do most managers fight only for the company and not for employee rights and benefits?"
The management reacts to any situation depending on the case-to-case scenario. We can't deny the fact that no matter how senior the manager is, he/she is also an employee of the company, more answerable to management than employees, and will manage affairs in the company's interest. Depending on the situation, managers may change their course of action as per employee demands, requests, and suitability, but they have to think from different points of view (employer's and employee's) and consider the overall impact on the system before implementing any decision. A senior HR person in any company acts as a link between senior management and operational teams. His success depends on how he manages to improve employee satisfaction within his company without negatively impacting his employer. However, if there is an incorrect policy or practice in the company, it becomes his responsibility to rectify things and justify his actions with strong reasons.
At the end of the day, it's a "REASON" that can justify the actions taken by management or an employee to survive and progress professionally.
Regards.
From India, Gurgaon
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Nice quote. So why don't you or your friend sacrifice their career and earnings for the betterment of the community? It's easy to say. Do and see how it works. Who today is going to risk losing their job and livelihood for you?
Have you or your friends tried complaining to the authorities? The PF and ESIC departments take immediate action on complaints of short payment or non-payment. In view of RTI, today they are also willing to sweep complaints below the carpet.
Most companies are very careful about compliance. They ensure that the contractors pay PF and ESIC on time. So, I find it difficult to believe that MNCs in general are "stealing your money."
You are crying about your friend who gets only 10,000 per month. What is his work? What's his skill set? What's his educational qualification? For example, if he is a material handler whose job is to move material trays from one assembly line to another, do you think he will get more than 10k per month? If he has skills that are in demand, why has he not changed his job? Why not try in another city? I met a couple of welders working in a large factory through a contractor. Guess what? They are getting 8 times the minimum wages. Know why? Because they have skills that they learned/developed that make them valuable.
The last gripe you seem to have is against MNCs working through contractors. Well, this is a system that is going to stay. You have no choice there nor I. Companies will continue to move non-critical/non-core work to contractors. That is a part of their efficiency cycle.
From India, Mumbai
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Have you or your friends tried complaining to the authorities? The PF and ESIC departments take immediate action on complaints of short payment or non-payment. In view of RTI, today they are also willing to sweep complaints below the carpet.
Most companies are very careful about compliance. They ensure that the contractors pay PF and ESIC on time. So, I find it difficult to believe that MNCs in general are "stealing your money."
You are crying about your friend who gets only 10,000 per month. What is his work? What's his skill set? What's his educational qualification? For example, if he is a material handler whose job is to move material trays from one assembly line to another, do you think he will get more than 10k per month? If he has skills that are in demand, why has he not changed his job? Why not try in another city? I met a couple of welders working in a large factory through a contractor. Guess what? They are getting 8 times the minimum wages. Know why? Because they have skills that they learned/developed that make them valuable.
The last gripe you seem to have is against MNCs working through contractors. Well, this is a system that is going to stay. You have no choice there nor I. Companies will continue to move non-critical/non-core work to contractors. That is a part of their efficiency cycle.
From India, Mumbai
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Mr. Banerjee ji, it seems that you agree with the people who do such wrong things and believe in such activities. This can only be understood by those who face such problems.
For your information, two cases of non-submission of PF of my close ones are already in progress in the labor court. This will proceed as well.
I want to inform you that not everyone has the same opportunities as in Delhi, Mumbai, or Bangalore, where you can leave a job today and find another tomorrow. It is also not feasible for everyone's family circumstances to be identical. There are many family issues where circumstances do not allow a person to move to another city for better opportunities.
Regards, Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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For your information, two cases of non-submission of PF of my close ones are already in progress in the labor court. This will proceed as well.
I want to inform you that not everyone has the same opportunities as in Delhi, Mumbai, or Bangalore, where you can leave a job today and find another tomorrow. It is also not feasible for everyone's family circumstances to be identical. There are many family issues where circumstances do not allow a person to move to another city for better opportunities.
Regards, Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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Well, there are similar cases of PF non-submission going on against Kingfisher, which will take a long time too. However, I would like to know more about the cases your close ones are fighting. If the company is defunct or not in a position to pay, it's a different matter. In other cases, nonpayment of PF gets resolved quickly as the PF department gets orders to attach property, freeze bank accounts, etc. The cases get prolonged if they are not clear-cut and there is ambiguity or dispute on the facts of the case. I just got an update on a case where the Supreme Court ordered the reinstatement of a worker dismissed 34 years back. So, any case that gets stuck in our courts will drag on almost forever. You still have not told me the qualification of the person or what work he is doing.
Market Rates and Location Impact
The company will pay market rates. That rate is dependent on the place where the factory is. The reason why companies set up factories in backward areas is to get cheaper manpower. So, if the salary generally offered in an area is low, the company will not pay higher, nor will the HR department recommend it. Millions of our workers work at minimum wage levels and manage their lives accordingly. So, if your friend/relative cannot move from this location where the salary is low, then he will have to live and manage within that. Complaining, crying, or getting angry with the HR department and the company solves nothing. Even the largest companies set up plants in such areas to get lower costs. They will not increase a person's salary unless general wages increase.
From India, Mumbai
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Market Rates and Location Impact
The company will pay market rates. That rate is dependent on the place where the factory is. The reason why companies set up factories in backward areas is to get cheaper manpower. So, if the salary generally offered in an area is low, the company will not pay higher, nor will the HR department recommend it. Millions of our workers work at minimum wage levels and manage their lives accordingly. So, if your friend/relative cannot move from this location where the salary is low, then he will have to live and manage within that. Complaining, crying, or getting angry with the HR department and the company solves nothing. Even the largest companies set up plants in such areas to get lower costs. They will not increase a person's salary unless general wages increase.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Vibha, Greetings! There is already a forum. You just have to go to the labour officer of your area; you can even file a complaint anonymously. Labour officers are almost waiting for such complaints. Once the complaint is made, you can just watch the proceeding. They are empowered with freezing company's accounts, attaching properties, and even attaching personal accounts of owners.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Question on Wage Deductions During Natural Calamities
My question remains unanswered: If any company deducts one or two days' wages from an employee's salary in the case of a natural calamity like floods or earthquakes and does not hand over these monies to the government treasury, is there any penalty or any authority whom one can approach?
From India, Mumbai
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My question remains unanswered: If any company deducts one or two days' wages from an employee's salary in the case of a natural calamity like floods or earthquakes and does not hand over these monies to the government treasury, is there any penalty or any authority whom one can approach?
From India, Mumbai
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I am happy with the response which I received. I know I am a bit emotional, but there are some major problems happening in our day-to-day life that affect not only immediately but also in the long term for someone who is part of our society. There are many senior managers and other managers who run the company very smartly. They take care of the company's perspective, so why don’t they bother about other things like bad compliance, violation of policies and laws, bribery activities, child labor, minimum wages, non-submission of PF, ESI, partiality, and favoritism.
Respect and Company Culture
No one is perfect in this world, so how can the quote "boss is always right" be true? If seniors have an eagerness for respect, then in my view, respect comes from the heart, not from fear. I believe an employee is a part of the company, not a servant.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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Respect and Company Culture
No one is perfect in this world, so how can the quote "boss is always right" be true? If seniors have an eagerness for respect, then in my view, respect comes from the heart, not from fear. I believe an employee is a part of the company, not a servant.
Regards,
Kashyap
From India, Chandigarh
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